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  • Britons 'misunderstand and distrust economics data'

    From bbc.co.uk

    Many Britons have a limited grasp of economic concepts, and distrust official data such as the unemployment rate or the deficit, a study suggests. People tend to look at economics through of their personal experience, a report funded by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) has found. The survey found people were interested in the economy and regretted their inability to fully understand it. The report said that communication of data and concepts could be improved. Groups such as politicians and the media communicate economics concepts in a way that many people find confusing, researchers at the Economic ... (full story)

This is exactly why they should never have asked voters to decide whether to stay in the EU. How are people with 'a limited grasp of economic concepts' in any way qualified to make such an important decision?
Quoting eaglesgift
This is exactly why they should never have asked voters to decide whether to stay in the EU. How are people with 'a limited grasp of economic concepts' in any way qualified to make such an important decision?
The voters had a second chance but voted for BJ.
I think the voters wanted to be where they are now.
People don't trust it because its always wrong ,lol
Don't talk to me about the mess the worlds in from central banks micro managing economies ,
THEY don't know what their doing ,the biggest gamble I've ever seen ....if it all goes wrong they don't pay and thats the flaw.

They don't have any rules governing thier stupidity ,like we once had the gold standard.
Quoting OutThere
{quote} The voters had a second chance but voted for BJ. I think the voters wanted to be where they are now.
Hardly supposing when the alternate to BJ was a totally unelectable raving nutter (JC)

Isnt that the supreme irony..?
When now we now see that Brexit commands only a 38% approval rating from the British public?

Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance
LH Mencken

Well as an investor /trader not my problem.. only to profit from the misjudgements and mispricing of others.
omg =massive dreamer
Quoting eaglesgift
This is exactly why they should never have asked voters to decide whether to stay in the EU. How are people with 'a limited grasp of economic concepts' in any way qualified to make such an important decision?
what never ask the people that pay for it ?you live in the UK apparently
  • Post #7
  • Quote
  • Edited at 5:52am Nov 26, 2020 5:28am | Edited at 5:52am
Quoting RossEdwards
{quote} Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance LH Mencken
People live in the real world ,it's wise bankers that can go bust and print more to get out of it ,
Common People realise one thing and thats they get the bill for the mess ups ,
Someone like you would hand it all over to the wise----of course your included in the wise...
You love big government the bigger the better ...
What's really ironic is the BBC talking to Britons about trust ,
BBC is history the way it's going ,
it's only a question of how you can get the question to the stupid public, who have to pay for it by law
A separate annual cost the moment you buy a TV
Quoting Bones
{quote} People live in the real world .... Common People realise one thing and thats they get the bill for the mess ups , ...
Never a truer word spoken...

In a tragic twist of irony, the scale of the EU payments were central to the Leave campaign’s case for Brexit (Remember the Brexit Bus ) and “taking back control of our money” and it now looks like the cost of Brexit itself is going to be significantly higher than all of those budget contributions over the past half-century – even before the UK actually leaves the free trading arrangement of the single market at the end of the year.
Whether Hard Brexit or No Deal, the long-run costs to the economy are likely to be more than twice that of COVID-19 – at least Ł2,000 per person. But Hey that just the LSE talking, and like Bloomerg, the OECD, The World Bank, the OBR, The BoE ... what do they know compared to an intrepid keyboard warrier and economic genius like you.
What in your world do their analyses mean.. False News? Project fear?
Next year will likely see over 8% unemployment, but happily for you this disaster will be ully ascribed to C19? The BoE say the the cost of brexit will in long run exceed the cost of the pandemic..
But hey what do they know .. compared to an Express Newspaper brieed briexiteer on a mission?
Even the voters now realise what a disaster it is. - only 38% now believing in it.

But its done now. No going back. Just damage limitation.
But you would want to be deluded not to realise that the whole project is a bloody disaster.
As you were warned. Smell reality. Smell the coffee.

HS.
  • Post #10
  • Quote
  • Edited at 6:36am Nov 26, 2020 6:21am | Edited at 6:36am
Quoting RossEdwards
{quote} Never a truer word spoken... In a tragic twist of irony, the scale of the EU payments were central to the Leave campaign’s case for Brexit (Remember the Brexit Bus ) and “taking back control of our money” and it now looks like the cost of Brexit itself is going to be significantly higher than all of those budget contributions over the past half-century – even before the UK actually leaves the free trading arrangement of the single market at the end of the year. Whether Hard Brexit or No Deal, the long-run costs...
No cost is too much to get out ,one thing for sure every year later that bill goes up .
The way too figure out if Brexit is the cause of the up and coming recession {mostly made by you're economists messing up, with Covid as the catalyst} is where the recession hits hardest ,
let's see how Europe fairs in all this .
Attached Image
Quoting eaglesgift
This is exactly why they should never have asked voters to decide whether to stay in the EU. How are people with 'a limited grasp of economic concepts' in any way qualified to make such an important decision?
All voting should come with a pertinent Q and A form. When you vote you need to answer a few simply worded questions about what it is you are voting on, no trick questions just something to prove you know what the issues really are. If you answer correct your vote counts if you are incorrect it doesn't count. In this day an age we should have an intelligent democratic system.
Quoting Bones
{quote} No cost is too much to get out . {image}
Heres the Brexit Bill: -200b/-300b.. Whos paying it? You?

I didnt see that written on your Brexit Bus?
Neither did the ordinary voter.
One minute you bemoan the fact that the voter pays.. next you couldn't give a fk how much that is, because of your twisted partisan ideological analysis?
Im an analyst. I call what I see. Im not in trawl to pseudo-nationalism or conspiracy theories or party politics. The whole Brexit project is a fking disaster. and will cripple the UK economy for a decade.
So say almost Every reputable economic institution in the UK and in the world.
  • Post #13
  • Quote
  • Edited at 12:08pm Nov 26, 2020 11:33am | Edited at 12:08pm
Quoting RossEdwards
{quote} Heres the Brexit Bill: -200b/-300b.. Whos paying it? You? I didnt see that written on your Brexit Bus? Neither did the ordinary voter. One minute you bemoan the fact that the voter pays.. next you couldn't give a fk how much that is, because of your twisted partisan ideological analysis? Im an analyst. I call what I see. Im not in trawl to pseudo-nationalism or conspiracy theories or party politics. The whole Brexit project is a fking disaster. and will cripple the UK economy for a decade. So say almost...
You believe it all thats why you're special .
Then post it like it's fact .
Quoting harcos
{quote} All voting should come with a pertinent Q and A form. When you vote you need to answer a few simply worded questions about what it is you are voting on, no trick questions just something to prove you know what the issues really are. If you answer correct your vote counts if you are incorrect it doesn't count. In this day an age we should have an intelligent democratic system.
Would you be in it ?
Hey Bones and Ross.
I have a simple/layman question since both of you know the Brexit well.

Didn't UK read the terms and conditions of the contract to join EU before signing up?

Did EU stop following the terms at some point?

IF the terms were clear and EU didn't break them, then the break up is totally UK's fault and they should look inward to themselves and their previous leaders who got them into it. If after all these years, UK decided to split, they should clearly take up the entire burden of the mess that such a split brings about.
I don't mean to be harsh or anything, UK people are great and I love them but fair is fair.
Quoting OutThere
Hey Bones and Ross. I have a simple/layman question since both of you know the Brexit well. Didn't UK read the terms and conditions of the contract to join EU before signing up? Did EU stop following the terms at some point? IF the terms were clear and EU didn't break them, then the break up is totally UK's fault and they should look inward to themselves and their previous leaders who got them into it. If after all these years, UK decided to split, they should clearly take up the entire burden of the mess that such a split brings about. I don't...
It's an evolving project ,which is actually one of the main reasons people voted too leave it.
Because no one knows where it heads, all it does is suck you in deeper while actively avoiding any vote on major changes.

Even in this thread. theres people willing to say it should be decided by a select few ,when everyone pays for it by tax.

"The first treaty, which established the European Economic Community (EEC), was signed in Rome in 1957. There have been five subsequent treaties – the Single European Act (1986), the Treaty of Maastricht (1992), the Treaty of Amsterdam (1997), the Treaty of Nice (2001) and the Treaty of Lisbon (2007)."
Quoting Bones
{quote} It's an evolving project ,which is actually one of the main reasons people voted too leave it. Because no one knows where it heads, all it does is suck you in deeper while actively avoiding any vote on major changes. Even in this thread. theres people willing to say it should be decided by a select few ,when everyone pays for it by tax. "The first treaty, which established the European Economic Community (EEC), was signed in Rome in 1957. There have been five subsequent treaties – the Single European Act (1986), the Treaty of Maastricht...
Ok, thanks for the explanation but it still leaves the question of the 'visionaries' who discussed the terms of the treaties and should have seen where they would have lead to. In fact every contract and treaty requires the signing parties to envision the future and the role of their party or the opposing parties in coming years and under the ever changing environments ahead. I know that one of the sticking points is immigration or better put, the refugee problem. Who could have thought of such an influx of people made to run away and refuge to places with more stability? Nevertheless, that situation and others fall on the shoulders of the visionaries that signed the contract as well as on those who participated in their capacities to bring about the displacement of the refugees.

I can't help but notice that UK is actually the party in the contract who is reneging overall. Like I say, I like UK people tremendously but if this whole thing was just a football match and there was only one offence, as an international referee, I'd pull the red card on UK.

Having said that, I hope the situation is resolved soon and hope both UK and EU come out intact and both prosper in the coming years.
  • Post #18
  • Quote
  • Edited Nov 27, 2020 5:59am Nov 26, 2020 3:55pm | Edited Nov 27, 2020 5:59am
Quoting OutThere
{quote} Ok, thanks for the explanation but it still leaves the question of the 'visionaries' who discussed the terms of the treaties and should have seen where they would have lead to. In fact every contract and treaty requires the signing parties to envision the future and the role of their party or the opposing parties in coming years and under the ever changing environments ahead. I know that one of the sticking points is immigration or better put, the refugee problem. Who could have thought of such an influx of people made to run away and refuge...
There isn't any blame either side ,
only reckless signing of treaties that affect everyday life of everyone.
It evolved without consent from the vast majority of the country and they were to scared to put it to the people, in a nutshell.
It can only happen in such a detached democracy like the EU.

It's defiantly not the voters fault ,{like accusations posted above}
but anyone who pursued the integration while knowing it's highly likely not something that can win a vote .





"the EU has gained decision-making power, and some laws are now taken at an EU-level and then imposed on member states. This supranationalism is different from what happened when the ECSC was created. Most of the time the Community required unanimity from all member states – an intergovernmental method."


Blair made promises of a referendum in both 2004 and 2005.

Certainly, on 20 April 2004 that was the case, as the PM told Parliament it should debate the European constitutional question "in detail and decide upon it" and "then let the people have the final say".

He ended the Commons statement with the war-cry: "Let the issue be put. Let the battle be joined."

No doubt in that pledge; although Blair's advisors would today point out that he is specifically referring to a debate with constitutional significance, not a watered down treaty.

'Let the issue be put. Let the battle be joined.'
Tony Blair's war cry
Fast-forward to the Labour election manifesto in 2005 and the language is as forthright.

Blair promises: "We will put it [the constitution] to the British people in a referendum and campaign wholeheartedly for a Yes vote."
Quoting Bones
{quote} Would you be in it ?
Why wouldn't I be I suggested it. I vote, I do my best to educate myself on the platforms of those running. If I was wrong and I answered my Q's incorrect and my vote was nulled so be it.
  • Post #20
  • Quote
  • Edited at 8:44am Nov 27, 2020 8:01am | Edited at 8:44am
Quoting harcos
{quote} Why wouldn't I be I suggested it. I vote, I do my best to educate myself on the platforms of those running. If I was wrong and I answered my Q's incorrect and my vote was nulled so be it.
It's obviously a ludicrous idea
You're talking about the referendum ? and you have to buy in to the general public don't know what they voted for .
They do !

The Eu is disliked that much in England that even with all those doom and gloom stories leave won by millions.
(70-30 in the south -most adversely affected)
Scotland and Ireland pay less and receive more- they need immigration = voted remain .
Do you really want to tell me the Scotts are known for being well educated above the English.

None of those doom and gloom stories came true already ,in fact you guys have to shift what they meant ,
now we have to see next year, Brexit will cost more than the virus
Quoting Bones
{quote} It's obviously a ludicrous idea You're talking about the referendum ? and you have to buy in to the general public don't know what they voted for . They do ! The Eu is disliked that much in England that even with all those doom and gloom stories leave won by millions. (70-30 in the south -most adversely affected) Scotland and Ireland pay less and receive more- they need immigration = voted remain . Do you really want to tell me the Scotts are known for being well educated above the English. None of those doom and gloom stories came true...
Of course they know what they voted for but do the understand all the pros and cons. And I also meant it for any democratic vote. I have no bias which way it went I couldn't care less I was just making a comment.
Quoting harcos
{quote} Of course they know what they voted for but do the understand all the pros and cons. And I also meant it for any democratic vote. I have no bias which way it went I couldn't care less I was just making a comment.
If it gets to the point of a vote of the country ,either side has merit ?
If you're not being specific give the example of a vote where you think people didn't understand what it was about.
Quoting harcos
{quote} Of course they know what they voted for but do the understand all the pros and cons. And I also meant it for any democratic vote. I have no bias which way it went I couldn't care less I was just making a comment.
would you allow supranationalism in your country ,Canada ?
Keep it simple with people telling you USA is the boss ,then your economic outlook could be better in the future.


We talk a very complex question with the UK-EU referendum ,there isn't a person on the planet that didn't hear the establishment economic outlooks.
Quoting Bones
{quote} would you allow supranationalism in your country ,Canada ? Keep it simple with people telling you USA is the boss ,then your economic outlook could be better in the future. We talk a very complex question with the UK-EU referendum ,there isn't a person on the planet that didn't hear the establishment economic outlooks.
You are taking my comments way to deep, you are obviously passionate and informed about brexit but my point was just that in a vote , any vote, voters should have to prove they know what they are voting for whatever the circumstance. I don't have an opinion on whether brexit should or shouldn't happen as I don't know enough of ALL the pro's and con's but if I lived where I had to vote on something like that I would learn what I needed to know. That is my only point. You can say everyone knows but it's my experience that a lot of people don't know. A blanket statement "like there isn't a person on the planet" is just hogwash and goes to prove my point exactly. Also you could add in the "don't care factor" there are a ton of people who don't follow whats happening because they don't care. Different strokes for different folks.
Quoting harcos
{quote} You are taking my comments way to deep, you are obviously passionate and informed about brexit but my point was just that in a vote , any vote, voters should have to prove they know what they are voting for whatever the circumstance. I don't have an opinion on whether brexit should or shouldn't happen as I don't know enough of ALL the pro's and con's but if I lived where I had to vote on something like that I would learn what I needed to know. That is my only point. You can say everyone knows but it's my experience that a lot of people don't...
You can't sieve democracy and no question you can apply to measure compliance .
Society would break down way you're going .

There's no point in having any vote if you know the right answer
Quoting Bones
{quote} You can't sieve democracy and no question you can apply to measure compliance . Society would break down way you're going . There's no point in having any vote if you know the right answer
there is no right answer in a democracy, its a choice and all I am saying is people should prove they know what they are choosing before their vote counts. It has nothing to do with compliance.
Quoting harcos
{quote} there is no right answer in a democracy, its a choice and all I am saying is people should prove they know what they are choosing before their vote counts. It has nothing to do with compliance.
you need to give an actual example where you think someone bothered to vote ,and never knew what they voted for
I know a lot of people who vote the same party always because they label themselves one or the other and they couldn't tell you one bill that party tabled in during there term or worse yet they complain about a change and yet it was a result of the party they voted for. A lot of voters don't even have a basic grasp on how government really works in their country. I know this is true in Canada and the US and I am sure it goes on worldwide.
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