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Its interesting to see that this News item attracted effectively just 1 posts after 3000 views.
(sorry I ignore the N-K dog and pony show).
Normally these events attract a firestorm of comment.
Perhaps this disinterest is itself a comment on the state of the Trump Presidency.
Warning: A Dangerous Subversive: 1% of comments CoCed
Quoting RossEdwards
Its interesting to see that this News item attracted effectively just 1 posts after 3000 views. (sorry I ignore the N-K dog and pony show). Normally these events attract a firestorm of comment. Perhaps this disinterest is itself a comment on the state of the Trump Presidency.
No, it means that any positive comments concerning trump and his politics may get you "cancelled"
The thought police is watching
Quoting Mingary
{quote} No, it means that any positive comments concerning trump and his politics may get you "cancelled" The thought police is watching
Experiment:

President Trump has done more good to the world than any other president in US history!

P.S

I mean it....
Why are censorship m. . ...... s hiding me!???

What did I say???🤔

Ohhhhh the truth 😳😳😳
Beware of robber banks (RB), bad advisors.
Quoting RossEdwards
Its interesting to see that this... the N-K dog and pony show). Normally these events attract a firestorm of... .
NK dog and pony

What's that???

You talking me and your mom???

You shouldn't call her pony
Beware of robber banks (RB), bad advisors.
Quoting Mingary
{quote} No, it means that any positive comments concerning trump and his politics may get you "cancelled" The thought police is watching
And yet, it is Not-KPMG's anti Trump comments that got hidden.
Compulsions can be hard to resist
Quoting Mingary
{quote} No, it means that any positive comments concerning trump and his politics may get you "cancelled" The thought police is watching
If your policy is to reduce spreading lies, I fear almost any quote of Trump will breach CoC. Some of my post get cancelled too, but that is ok. The moderators do moderate...so that things do not spiral out of control.

Just take a look at this AOC interaction and compare it to a Trump really speech....

Inserted Video


Now tell me, who is the genius? AOC or Drumpf?

Does it mean I share all political views of AOC? No, I don't. But I honor intelligence and integrity and logical arguments and I do this completly independent of the political spectrum it comes from.

If Trump makes a sound logical argument based on facts I would honor it too....but this is definitely not how Trump works and you know it.
  • Comment #11
  • Quote
  • Edited Aug 3, 2020 1:55am Aug 2, 2020 1:59am | Edited Aug 3, 2020 1:55am
Quoting HudithePfupf
{quote} If your policy is to reduce spreading lies, I fear almost any quote of Trump will breach CoC. Some of my post get cancelled too, but that is ok. The moderators do moderate...so that things do not spiral out of control. Just take a look at this AOC interaction and compare it to a Trump really speech.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJlpS4vhKP0 Now tell me, who is the genius? AOC or Drumpf? Does it mean I share all political views of AOC? No, I don't. But I honor intelligence and integrity and logical arguments and I do this...
To reduce spreading lies should be a policy that we all need to apply.
Personal experience goes deeper than received opinions.
In 2016 like many others, I was outraged and disgusted that such a "racist, stupid mysogynistic buffoon" got elected. That was (and still is) all that I heard (and still hear) from the mass media. Until about 2018 I was staunchly against trump. Until one day I heard him speak for a couple of minutes. What he said was irrelevant, but what was shocking was the fact that this "racist, stupid mysogynistic buffoon" could even utter a "coherent" speech! The "Stephen Colbert / Mainstream Media" baby that I was could not believe that he could actually put two sentences together that were not racist or mysoginistic! I looked deeper into the cognitive dissonance and its source: they are lying to the public. Granted that manipulation and coercion is what politics and mainstream media is supposed to do, but with Trump as the lightning rod it has become rather more pernicious and malevolent than usual

AOC is a good example. this fast talking genius is just "product placement". No conspiracy here, perfectly legit in PAC shenanigans...

There is no distinctly American criminal class - except Congress.
Mark Twain

Inserted Video
Quoting Mingary
{quote} To reduce spreading lies should be a policy that we all need to apply. ...
Ok.... so you take this video as evidence AOC is a tool.... a product placement tool? Isn't this video not a perfect example of how propaganda is packaged today and targeted to those already biased and willing to take everything as facts because it hits their biases?

Well, let's look into that:

It's clear that AOC was very well prepared in the clip.... she was makeing here points in a brilliant way and to do so, you have to prepare yourself well and invest significant effort into it. It's absolutly reasonable that AOC has a team behind her that helps putting together the facts and argumentation lines to make her points. To conclude that she is just an actress is baseless. Shouldn't it be that way? That is actually a very good thing and imagine Trump would have a team that prepares his speeches as well with true facts in a logical order so he can make his points without using phrases like.... some believe....I heard actually a lot believe or even almost all you believe.... and you know it's very true, believe me.... and than he lands another outlandish lie or unbelievable insult about an other opponent.

The right wing media and MAGA guys may work that way, but if you look into how progressive center to left wing politicans work together, especially those outside the establishment that still have an idealistic world view, I think it is far more likely that she is not a tool but an important member of a team that obiviously works together in a good an efficient way. Isn't that how a politcal party in a democracy should function? This is not a one (wo)man show... democracy is a compromise and if your policy comes from a well balanced team it will resonate better in the public than probably from a single ego fighter that ignores everybody else.... would make sense, would it?

As always it is helpful to check the source and make a quick background check. So called Mr. Reagan, Christopher Patrick Kohls, seems to be a former wannabe actor finally corrupted by his greed for clicks to become a youtuber affialiate marketer. He went down the affilate marketing cliff and finally found his place in the right wing MAGA with a 23 year old Russian girlfrind by his side. He made it. If you want to sell stupid ketogenic diet pills and products, the MAGA crowd is a perfect playing field....a lot of them fat and in need of a diet and most ot them not very intelligent.... so tell them what they want to hear and sell your products (that are overpriced and probably not effictive). I mean compare this guy with the retail forex affiliate crooks and you could acutally deploy him right away in retail forex. He would be a perfect fit.

As you see he is prepared too, but less with facts than with a seamless string of spinning points. Some very clearly pure alu hat conspiracy stuff (Cenk from TYT is the mastermind behind all of it, George Soros is already mentioned ;-), the young turks linked to the Armenian geocide....yeahh sure, co-host Ana will certainly agree. Did you recognize that he is always talking "we", although he is the single actor of the show and does not give any information about his "team". Isn't he is much more likely the tool he claims AOC to be.

Maybe an affiliate marketing tool for MAGA and Drumpfs reelection team?

Based on this is nothing more than a rant on politcal opponents in a classical right wing style.

Finally it is interesting to see this guy uses the name Mr. Reagan and Reagans portrait as his logo. He must have the blessing of the Ronald Reagan foundation, which recently stopped Drumpfs reelection team from misusing Reagans name and image for his fund raising activities. So either he soon needs a brand change or he is a hired actor for the Reagan foundation agenda.... the circle closes.

He is an actor.....and he does act in his videos.
Quoting HudithePfupf
{quote} Ok.... so you take this video as evidence AOC is a tool.... a product placement tool? Isn't this video not a perfect example of how propaganda is packaged today and targeted to those already biased and willing to take everything as facts because it hits their biases? Well, let's look into that: It's clear that AOC was very well prepared in the clip.... she was makeing here points in a brilliant way and to do so, you have to prepare yourself well and invest significant effort into it. It's absolutly reasonable that AOC has a team behind her...
Ok, thanks for all this info, did you find that info on Snopes.com ?
You seem to enjoy doing your own research. That is a good thing.
You should spend some time reading up on "Political Action Committees" (PACS)
Then you would understand she is 100 % "product placement". This is not a secret.

I don't doubt for 1 second she is 100 % dedicated to the cause and working very hard at it.
Even Barack Obama decided NOT to endorse AOC ... that should tell you something..
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...orsements.html

I don't care about the crazy stuff until proven true (i.e. Soros & Co et al)

As for this "Mr. Reagan", in this video he is providing facts and fiction ... here is something that the real "Mr. Reagan" actually said: "If fascism ever comes to America, it will come in the name of liberalism."
If a news source proliferates obvious crazy alu hat theories, it is typically a waste of time and should be avoided to keep ones mental health.

Some sources are p.e. interesting on economic stuff, because the adress topics main stream media don't dare to touch because of their advertisers, but are totally biased and nuts on politcal issues becasue that is the way they are financed.... to spin out fake news and manipulate opinions.

Not easy to filter these days...and a major part of propaganda today is to give so much controversial information that people give up verifying the truth and just stick with their opinion, because this is the easiest way to go. Targeted ads and news just have to shift the already existing bias to the place they want you to be.... it works, not with all people but with a lot of people. That's a problem to be solved if we want to live in democracies also in the future.

Now look where Trumps favoured news sources are and you get an idea how he could be influenced in his decision.....


https://www.allsides.com/sites/defau...t-Version2.jpg

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media...fmpgnxxisx.png
Quoting HudithePfupf
If a news source proliferates obvious crazy alu hat theories, it is typically a waste of time and should be avoided to keep ones mental health. Some sources are p.e. interesting on economic stuff, because the adress topics main stream media don't dare to touch because of their advertisers, but are totally biased and nuts on politcal issues becasue that is the way they are financed.... to spin out fake news and manipulate opinions. Not easy to filter these days...and a major part of propaganda today is to give so much controversial information that...
Also
"Now look where the democrats favoured news sources are and you get an idea how they could be influenced in their decision...."

Left, right, ALL the news outlets are all spinning, scheming, and lying
ALL news sources have lost ALL credibility on political issues.
It's "entertainment" and all about getting a market share for the purpose of influencing opinions for political ends.
I agree that most news outlets on both sides are spinning, scheming, and lying, especially all news sources you can access for free. They finance themselves through clicks, through money from companies and political campaign money, certainly not from their readers.

That's the core of the problem - those who read the stuff are not those who finance the content they get.

Their businessmodel thrives thanks to provocation, lies and emotionalisation. This problem needs to be adressed by everybody that thinks truth and reliable information sources are essential for a democravy to funkction. A core problem is that lying (in a very wide range) is not a crime in most countries. Society requires that people have values and isolate liars to constrain their influence..... but since Trump this is a thing of the past..... lying has become mainstream on many levels.
Quoting HudithePfupf
I agree that most news outlets on both sides are spinning, scheming, and lying, especially all news sources you can access for free. They finance themselves through clicks, through money from companies and political campaign money, certainly not from their readers. That's the core of the problem - those who read the stuff are not those who finance the content they get. Their businessmodel thrives thanks to provocation, lies and emotionalisation. This problem needs to be adressed by everybody that thinks truth and reliable information sources are...
I totally agree.

“If the press in this country were honest, and wasn’t corrupt, if it wasn’t fake, our country would be so much further ahead"
Here comes the Trump quote..... this quote isn't wrong by itselve, but comming from Trump it has to be judged in the context comming from Trump.

Every information and news article that praises his actions is great and he often tell these journalists how great they are.... but if there is a critical remark, even from one of his press buddies or his favourite tv network, he slams it as fake news.

Via Twitter Trump is part of the press too. He publishes a lot and has a wide range..... The fun thing about it is that he is one of the fake news Nr. 1 sources... unfiltered and 100% responsibel for all lies he spreads.

So again. His quote is true.... the only problem is that it exactly describes what he is what he does and of course, the US would be further ahead without him.... example of a classic distortion of reality.
Quoting HudithePfupf
Here comes the Trump quote..... this quote isn't wrong by itselve, but comming from Trump it has to be judged in the context comming from Trump. Every information and news article that praises his actions is great and he often tell these journalists how great they are.... but if there is a critical remark, even from one of his press buddies or his favourite tv network, he slams it as fake news. Via Twitter Trump is part of the press too. He publishes a lot and has a wide range..... The fun thing about it is that he is one of the fake news Nr. 1...
Trump says and does a lot of stupids things but he is not the source of fake news. And, "Fake News" is not a Trump era specific phenomenon ..

"Here comes the Trump quote..... this quote isn't wrong by itselve, but comming from Trump it has to be judged in the context comming from Trump"

I find the "Orange man bad" and "TDS" peculiarity utterly fascinating.

if the quote is "not wrong in itself", then does it matter who says it ?
If AOC had said it (or one of your favorite politicians), that would be ok and not questionable ?

Let's look at this logically:
ad absurdum logical argument:
1 ) if Vladimir Putin says that 2 + 2 = 4, is that questionable ?
2) If stephen hawking says that 2 + 2 = 4, is that questionable ?
1) if Vladimir Putin says most people in russia speak russian, is that questionable ?
2) If stephen hawking says most people in russia speak russian, is that questionable ?

2 + 2 does equal 4
In Russia people do speak Russian
True statements.

Would you say that Stephen Hawking is "more correct" than Vladimir Putin because Hawking is a math genius ? (i.e. Putin's answer should be judged according to the context coming from Putin. "not wrong in itself .. but ..."(subjectivity goes here) )

Would you say that Vladimir Putin is "more correct" than Stephen Hawking because Putin is the President of Russia ? (i.e. Hawking's answer should be judged according to the context comine from Hawking, "not wrong in itself .. but ..."(subjectivity goes here))

All this to simply say that I contend that a statement is true or false on it's own regardless of the source!
Everywhere, I see an enormous amount of subjective reasoning.... sign of the time.
Note to myself: Beware the clouds of unreason (:
Quoting Mingary
{quote} Trump says and does a lot of stupids things but he is not the source of fake news. And, "Fake News" ...
This is so wrong it hurts.....

Since he is not able or intelligent enough to verify an information before he spreads it, he probably is the main source of fake news in the US.

If you call it TDS if someone is critical of statements from a proven pathological liar with a rate of 23.3 lies a day in 2020 (source Forbes) you have RDS - reality derangement symptom

Math is an exact science - the news business is not. You reduced my statement about fake news by quoting Trump and include the whole press, which is obviously bs. There are good an honest journalists out there who want to be as close to the truth as possible.

Your reasoning analogy is very weak - however, I see that you even take the weakest pseudo argument to defend Trump and this tells a lot by itselve. You are in good company along with his former press secretaries or Kellyanne Conway.

If you judge a statement from a known liar your experience tells you to distrust the statement till proven correct. If you have a trustworthy source you believe till proven wrong. Why? Because you pay for a trustworthy information source to do the reaserach an deliver facts. If it doesn't, the source has no value anymore.

This is completly different with free news without a pay wall. While it doesn't have to be lies 100% - it's main purpose is not to deliver facts, it is to make you click, to stir up your emotions, to manipulate you thinking, to distort reality, to overload you with so much bull shit that truth is getting diluted and marginalized that without significant effort you don't recognize it anymore. This is Trumps method.

So again, depending on who is making a certain statement, it really can mean something totally different.
Language is not a perfect science - that's why you can read between the lines - you get the message without something acutally being said.

To your last point - if the statement purely describes a actual fact that can be measured in a reproduceable, scientific way your right.

“If the press in this country were honest, and wasn’t corrupt, if it wasn’t fake, our country would be so much further ahead"

This statement is a extrem simplification of reality.

If you summerize all media outlets and journalists in the US into one entity "press" and call them all without differentiation dishonest, corrupt, fake and then purely hypothize without any logical argument listed why and how the country whould be better off, such a statement is just nonsense. Am empty shell - like almost all Trump quotes. And this empty shell is then filled with each ones personal bias - this is his method.

It tells a lot how people fill this empty Trump shells with their own reasoning and I am worried to see how you fill them. Those who are not 100% sceptical about every single word comming from Trump are already seriously damaged by his method. So TDS for me is a sign that there are still smart people out there recognizing lies, so Trump supporters have to label them as deranged because they lost the argument.
Gat - I bet you have a lot of experience with a can opener......
Quoting HudithePfupf
{quote} This is so wrong it hurts..... Since he is not able or intelligent enough to verify an information before he spreads it, he probably is the main source of fake news in the US. If you call it TDS if someone is critical of statements from a proven pathological liar with a rate of 23.3 lies a day in 2020 (source Forbes) you have RDS - reality derangement symptom Math is an exact science - the news business is not. You reduced my statement about fake news by quoting Trump and include the whole press, which is obviously bs. There are good an...
No offense, but think again...
Why do you think this has been avoided by the US Crass-Media ?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/...154215455.html

Anything that makes trump look favorable is ignored.
"Orange man bad" all the way ...

Now this is slightly facetious but ...
If Obama can get a Nobel peace prize just for being black
Why is trump not getting the Nobel Peace prize for this historic deal that is something so much more important?


Something ain't right, I reckon ..
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