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Trading is an Art

  • #1
  • First Post: Oct 6, 2010 2:01am Oct 6, 2010 2:01am
Good day.

No, this thread is not gonna ask you to install 3 indicators and when indi A crossed indi B and indi C is pointing north then you got a signal. No, probably not.

A little about the thread starter.
I trade for my living. I trade for my survival. And I am attempting to trade like its joyous and fun, as if stress and problems never exist. i'm trying to trade like [in the now]... You read that international bestseller by Eckhart Tolle too, didn't you?

I am 26.
I have had blown an account or two.
I have had my confidence crisis.
I have had several Aha-I-got-it-moments.
I have applied numerous systems consistently, posted on FF or not.
I have developed numerous systems that seem to work, or not.
I have wrote my own indicator, despite my lousy programming knowledge.
I have been through a period of sustained negativity.
I have, because of that, studied fengshui, in attempt to improve my luck.
I have become a more conscious and spiritual person ever since trading exposed my life's vulnerability.
I have been making money in trading forex.

Have anyone really started to turn their trading failures into huge successes after following a system? a seminar or workshop?
I doubt most of us would and could.
The secret is that Trading can not be taught.
While sciences could be taught and formulas to be applied, trading couldn't.

Because its an ART. And with art, you can only realised. Thus, one could only be guided, but not taught. Its the same as Reiki Healing, Psychic, or spiritual enlightenment. It has gotta be realised.

At one point of your trading career, you'll probably discovered that there's no hardcore formula that could lead you to success. Because despite what experts have been telling you, there never was.

Fibos, Trendlines, Channels, Candlesticks, Patterns, etc they all work, but they don't work MAGIC. So, you don't depend on them, you make them work for you.

Next, I'll show you how I trade.
  • #2
  • Oct 6, 2010 2:35am Oct 6, 2010 2:35am
So, if its an Art, how does one goes about trading it?
There's no laws in the market. Laws as in a sense the Law of Gravity, the Law of Attraction, etc.

If there were ever Laws in the market, it would have been so predictable, repeating the same price action day after day, hitting that Fibo level and bounce back everytime, follow your upward channel and never broke through it.

But that doesn't mean that your tools (Fibs, at al) aint important. Because they are about the best assistance you could get navigating in the market. Simple because, a big lots of money is looking at these tools to enter/exit the market, and that is the primary reason for market movement.

Imagine today if you were Leonardo Fibonacci and you dictated that the golden numbers are instead 0.1258, 0.4335, 0.7144 and 1.1215, they would work just as great because, the price movers acknowledge and follow the levels!

Anyway, here's the trick on what I do usually and it just takes anywhere from 1 to 5 minutes of your time (I do it on E/U only).

Pop up a 1H chart on the time pre-volatile trading hours. I liked it pre-Euro session.

You would get something like this:

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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The market may go up, or it may go down. Do whatever technical analysis you like with the chart (its an art, remember?).

1. Typically, I'd just draw what I see, a trend, a channel, a triangle, or just a range.
2. Then, typically, too, I'd like to have options for scenarios that the market is going up or down.
3. Set a Sell Stop and a Buy Stop.
4. Determine my targets, anyway from 40 to 100 pips. No one could tell you are wrong in this. You just have to be reasonable.
5. Determine the SL. Anywhere from 15 pips onwards and lesser than your TP.
6. Move your positions to BE when you have 20 pips floating profit.
7. Move on with life.

The essence of the "System"
Give yourself a reason to trade, via technical analysis of any kind.
Buy or Sell Stop. TP, SL, BE. That's it.

Important Notes:
Set your Buy/Sell Stops based what you FEEL NOW. Not what your mind is telling you to.
YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE RIGHT.
YOU DO NOT NEED TO HAVE PINPOINT ACCURACY.
Its an Art. Don't get stressed over rights or wrongs. That's what stoplosses are for.
You don't need to follow the blardy news, their usefulness in intraday trading is about as good as flipping a coin.
You don't need to zoom into smaller or larger timeframes to check this and that. C'mmon, give yourself a break, don't you already have a life full of challenges?
You don't need to add any rules to it, its only limiting your possibilities by the market.
You don't need to add any indicators whatsoever to it... Its already the best thing a trader could get, in my humble opinion.
  • #3
  • Oct 6, 2010 2:41am Oct 6, 2010 2:41am
These charts are from my trading blog at www.wanwaihui.com
Its in chinese, so don't bother with it if you cant read it. I update it almost daily, and if you care enough just drop by I do have price levels painted on the charts for better visuals.

These are some of my examples.

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  • #4
  • Oct 6, 2010 2:46am Oct 6, 2010 2:46am
I might not be able to reply regularly to both personal messages or posts on the thread. But if you have comments, feel free to post.

If you are in anyway not happy with my concept, I don't mind at all you flaming the thread or anything.

But just be sure you come back every so often to check out on your posts, and when one day you realised that you are funny then you are pretty much very close to being a complete trader.

If you are the few lucky ones who could swallow what I have given here, and when it does help you realise something of importance or in anyway changed your trading career, do come back and help out those whom are still lost.

Trading is an Art... So, be artistic.
  • #5
  • Oct 6, 2010 3:38am Oct 6, 2010 3:38am
You 're right ! It's the art of Phycho!!!!

From what you have done, the world know more about you !

Acutuall ,know more about Phycho!

The whole world got hurt by your art of Phycho,
but you got fun as years ago!!!!

Now ,most people understand why Alexander Elder could be a real best professional expert in financial market !!!

He's a Psychiatrist！ He understand your mind - The mind of Phycho !!!
  • #6
  • Oct 6, 2010 4:15am Oct 6, 2010 4:15am
Hmm, let's see where this goes. I had a look at your chinese blog with google translator - it translates rather well - and it all seems so organized, so nice and tidy.

Did the translator get this right?

"Money is not difficult to make a net profit of +788 on Aug 9"

Mmmm, is it not difficult to make money? And should we be impressed about one certain lucky day's trading profits?
forget about tomorrow, just steal away into the night
  • #7
  • Oct 6, 2010 5:05am Oct 6, 2010 5:05am
ok if i anderstand you put 2 trend lines and you wait since one of the two is broken and then you wait since horizontal line is broken. But how do you determinate the profit price?
  • #8
  • Oct 6, 2010 5:27am Oct 6, 2010 5:27am
Where did you get your money from?

You say your 26, and already blew up 2 accounts. Thats what $50,000 at least? You do this for a living, so you already must have enough money to pay all your accomodation, food, taxes etc.

You need to clear at least $50,000 USD, a lot more if you are in HK.

If you make say 20% pa then I guess *you're trading account alone* must be what $250,000?

At 26, how many *years* of trading experience do you have exactly? I guess that puts you as 16 year old kid during the dot com bust, were you trading that?

Trading is about making gains *long term*, you don't say how long you've been trading, if you're only 26 then I can't see that you've had that much experience of the markets; moreover, you admit that you've blown up 2 accounts, so exactly, *how many years of profitable* trading have you done?

I'm sorry to say this, but you did say you wanted honest posts, you come across as some "rich kid" who's had some luck in the markets, no more no less.
  • #9
  • Oct 6, 2010 5:46am Oct 6, 2010 5:46am
Quoting fxftime
You 're right ! It's the art of Phycho!!!!

Now ,most people understand why Alexander Elder could be a real best professional expert in financial market !!!

He's a Psychiatrist！ He understand your mind - The mind of Phycho !!!
That's right. Its the psychology once you grasp the basics of trading.
Its all in the mind.
  • #10
  • Oct 6, 2010 5:49am Oct 6, 2010 5:49am
Quoting spekitox
Hmm, let's see where this goes. I had a look at your chinese blog with google translator - it translates rather well - and it all seems so organized, so nice and tidy.

Did the translator get this right?

"Money is not difficult to make a net profit of +788 on Aug 9"

Mmmm, is it not difficult to make money? And should we be impressed about one certain lucky day's trading profits?
Actually it was the profit from August to September.
My luck hasn't brought me +788 pips in a day, no. Not that I have the psychology to attempt the feat anytime soon I guess.

And yes, money could be made with little difficult, if only you allow yourself the perspective.
  • #11
  • Oct 6, 2010 5:55am Oct 6, 2010 5:55am
Quoting perjo
ok if i anderstand you put 2 trend lines and you wait since one of the two is broken and then you wait since horizontal line is broken. But how do you determinate the profit price?
I am happy with 40-80pips profit. I'd normally look for the the next 1 or 2 S/R that provides the kind of profit. S/R can be determined by Fibo, or price levels (20, 40, 60, 80), or previous visible S/R on the chart.

Its an Art. No one could ever be exact, save on a few lucky ocassions. So anywhere you put is just as fine.

Ask yourself this instead: How much do you want?

Sounds crazy right? Think about it again the next time you trade. Monitor how your "common sense" work for you. It almost always fail you, doesn't it?
  • #12
  • Oct 6, 2010 5:58am Oct 6, 2010 5:58am
nice thread , trading is an art.
I throw away those messy indicators, only one chart !
  • #13
  • Oct 6, 2010 6:11am Oct 6, 2010 6:11am
Quoting BruntFCA
Where did you get your money from?

You say your 26, and already blew up 2 accounts. Thats what $50,000 at least? You do this for a living, so you already must have enough money to pay all your accomodation, food, taxes etc.

You need to clear at least $50,000 USD, a lot more if you are in HK.

If you make say 20% pa then I guess *you're trading account alone* must be what $250,000?

At 26, how many *years* of trading experience do you have exactly? I guess that puts you as 16 year old kid during the dot com bust, were you trading that?

Trading...
Hey, chill out, my friend. Have you realised "negativity" has been "ntegrated with your "realism" without you knowing it? Try re-read what you have posted in a while and you will discover it.

I wished I was born a rich kid. Though I find being in an average family is apparently more rewarding.

No, I didn't have the convinience of USD50k account start off with. I have been trading for over 3 years, been profitable for more than half of that time - consistently - if I might add.

Experience is a misleading term, don't you think? In ancient China, there is this saying "学无前后，达者为先". It roughly means, "It doesn't matter who started first in the field of knowledge, for the one who has achieved will be considered the first."

I see you are from UK, let's put it the perspective of football:
Do you think Alan Shearer is necessarily better than Christino Ronaldo?
Or when Ronaldinho scored his freekick against England when he was below 20, would you ask him how much "experience" do you have to "deserve" scoring that freekick?

There's no absolute reality in this world. There's, however, only personal reality. Your personal reality isn't necessarily the truth, while it may appear true to you. So, open up and change your reality if it isn't helping you. To realise this has proven helpful to my life, I hope it would do the same to all of you.
  • #14
  • Oct 6, 2010 6:12am Oct 6, 2010 6:12am
Quoting mithras
nice thread , trading is an art.
I throw away those messy indicators, only one chart !
Great!
  • #15
  • Oct 6, 2010 7:11am Oct 6, 2010 7:11am
Hello Beronfei.
Trading is purely am art. And Price Action in only parameter in my option that will enhance the art of trading. My life, my trading changed the moment i realized the truth. Since then, i built my system around my personality, that is the psychology of trading.
PRICE IS ALL I NEED TO KNOW , every other thing is secondary.
We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are.
  • #16
  • Oct 6, 2010 8:14am Oct 6, 2010 8:14am
Quoting chuks
Hello Beronfei.
Trading is purely am art. And Price Action in only parameter in my option that will enhance the art of trading. My life, my trading changed the moment i realized the truth. Since then, i built my system around my personality, that is the psychology of trading.
PRICE IS ALL I NEED TO KNOW , every other thing is secondary.
Great to hear that! That's so right. Its always refreshing to know more people is realising the truth (though I sound like some religious faction here...)
Trading exposed the dark side of humanity. Face it and you shall prevail...
  • #17
  • Oct 6, 2010 8:50am Oct 6, 2010 8:50am
I agree, trading is an art. But you need to know your technicals before you can express yourself well, just like learning a musical instrument.
  • #18
  • Oct 7, 2010 12:08am Oct 7, 2010 12:08am
An example of my setup for today:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EU101007.jpg Size: 134 KB


I would normally prefer to see tight range, flat or upwards or downwards.
Now from the chart, I see an uptrend, then the near term I see "profit taking" or "pullbacks".

If the trend continues, what should be my stand? I wanna follow it. Thus, my buy stop.

Where should I put my TP? I feel 1.4000 is a major SR, and people will be looking at it. Lots of orders will be placed there. Meaning, 1.4000 broken thru or not, the price will go there! So, 1.3995 seems like a nice place for my TP.

How do you know if the "pullback" wouldnt turn into a "reversal"? You don't. So, set a sell stop there.

How about my TP for this order? Well, if the break downwards is sustained and meaningful, it should be anywhere around the region 1.3830. You'd ask why? I'd say I don't know... It's an art, you see. May be .3830 isn't a lower low, may be it just happened to hit a doji at that level, may be its one of the fibo resistance.

Pure logical reasoning won't work in trading. If it does, you would have been making lots of money right now.
Just place where you feel is right.
Trust your feelings, you can thin-slice the market you know.

Set your SL to BE @ +20pips by the way.
  • #19
  • Oct 7, 2010 3:12am Oct 7, 2010 3:12am
Thanks for your sharing.

I place a buy stop over 1.4000, say 1.4025 , which means the Breakout is "valid" . Area 3830 is the start of the "impulse wave". I think there will be a high volatility. For me, I won't sell until I got a valid reversal signal. just my 2 cents


Quoting baronfei
An example of my setup for today:
Attachment

I would normally prefer to see tight range, flat or upwards or downwards.
Now from the chart, I see an uptrend, then the near term I see "profit taking" or "pullbacks".

If the trend continues, what should be my stand? I wanna follow it. Thus, my buy stop.

Where should I put my TP? I feel 1.4000 is a major SR, and people will be looking at it. Lots of orders will be placed there. Meaning, 1.4000 broken thru or not, the price will go there! So, 1.3995 seems like a nice place...
  • #20
  • Oct 7, 2010 5:04am Oct 7, 2010 5:04am
Quoting mithras
Thanks for your sharing.

I place a buy stop over 1.4000, say 1.4025 , which means the Breakout is "valid" . Area 3830 is the start of the "impulse wave". I think there will be a high volatility. For me, I won't sell until I got a valid reversal signal. just my 2 cents
Hi Mithras,
Thanks for sharing. Imho, I'll always "try", counter trend or not... There's never trend in the "now", only up or down. If price were meant to go up, it wouldnt hit the sell stop, and vice versa. I'd always prefer doing them early, the tightest "range in the now" that I picked up.

But we are both right, you know. Cheers...
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