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Objective Thinking And Trading

  • #41
  • Mar 25, 2021 12:20am Mar 25, 2021 12:20am
...... Did you know .....

... that when using a standard chart for trading, each bar or candlestick is exactly the same width left to right?

So while some periods of time see price move more upward or downward, there are DEFINITELY specific parts of trading that ARE and CAN BE equated as constant. And if it can be equated as constant, then it can be measured, it can be expressed, it can be articulated in terms of financial consideration. And if you can do this, then you can indeed measure its predictability as well as the efficacy of your use of it in relation to the outside world and a greater world view, where you will need to be more self responsible. And being more self responsible, you become a better trader.

So unless you want to waste your life trying to learn how to do it "better" than so many who have come before you, why not try looking into the shadows and realize : they all failed to see something. It doesn't matter WHAT it is they failed to see, just that they failed to learn.

Learning a 'way of thinking so a strategy works' is not thinking - it is internalized manipulation. And it will fail you every single time.

The long term effects are always the same - the world changes and you get left behind, wondering "what happened?"

The choice is always the same.

Choosing to rely on an attitude that reflects the 'ugly side' of being a child, is in direct contradiction to what helps a trader be successful in their career AND their personal life. If you doubt this, do some research on people, right here on this site.

The only people I have ever encountered who are scared of learning the truth, are those who already know it but are too spineless to face it head on. And no amount of 'modern day medicating' can ever bridge that gap.

The choice is yours but the consequences and the people you hurt are always beyond your view until you learn.

I hope that helps.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #42
  • Mar 25, 2021 1:05am Mar 25, 2021 1:05am
Quoting PeterCaleb
{quote} I can agree with that. The revealing issue is in the details. Insanity by definition, is expected to always be viewed as being in a strait-jacket in a padded cell in some psychiatric ward, or, being some psychopathic killer etc. But as you say, most people continue down some kind of road, without even once, wondering if they still know how to use their own foresight to see where everything is heading. Having a goal or interest, is fine, but since people never learn about proper basics such as concentric circles, they never really appreciate...
You have a way with words but I am equally bowled by your use of illustrations. I find it fascinating to read.
Practice makes a person perfect
  • #43
  • Edited 2:03am Mar 25, 2021 1:22am | Edited 2:03am
Quoting PeterCaleb
...... Did you know ..... ... that when using a standard chart for trading, each bar or candlestick is exactly the same width left to right? So while some periods of time see price move more upward or downward, there are DEFINITELY specific parts of trading that ARE and CAN BE equated as constant. And if it can be equated as constant, then it can be measured, it can be expressed, it can be articulated in terms of financial consideration. And if you can do this, then you can indeed measure its predictability as well as the efficacy of your use of...
I have found indicators that provide constant values come closer to having some element of certainty in my trading. So to some extent, it was clear to me it is not random trading .

It is only after the post-Corona period, when economic events became ineffective triggers of trade post, I realised the rules of the games have changed.
Now randomness is gone. Uncertainty remains ....to some extent. But not like before. So what is the use of doing pre-trade analysis?
This thinking led me to enter the market and look for momentum minutes as my working hours.
In any case Uncertainty will remain. Trading has become a well defined game of 50% chance of winning or losing.
In my own mind I am tossing the coin for determining way to bet.

1. Easier to follow the profit factor trading system when outcome is determined by taking the gross profit of winning trades and dividing it by the gross losses from the trades that lost money.

2. I would have gone for the easy route but I am not comfortable with going through psychological pain. It is the Congestion period that causes the psychological pressures on me.
Otherwise, when Federal Reserve floated helicopter money and ensured the market will follow just Up direction, it was easier to do that for people with deep pockets and resilience to face psychological pressures. That's how the rich became more rich and in a faster way.

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Practice makes a person perfect
  • #44
  • Mar 25, 2021 2:04am Mar 25, 2021 2:04am
The company of time, knowledge and Life ......

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+

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Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #45
  • Edited 1:32am Mar 26, 2021 1:07am | Edited 1:32am
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What I am about to discuss has parts installed that have no affiliation with me at all in
any way, shape or form. They are strictly for the purposes of learning.
And is in no way the destination but merely the beginning.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

** The pdf version of this post will include the pictures in full.

"I will never assume you are stupid, only you can do this yourself. I will never assume you are unloved, only you can feel this way. I will never beseech you to cross any ethical or moral line that you should not cross. Only you can choose to do this. No one can make you feel inferior, only YOU can choose to believe this about you......BUT I WILL CHALLENGE everything you assume to be true and real, particularly if I am aware of the contradiction that breeds failure or suffering."

Foresight vs Entrenched Assumptions

You are a person, you had to come from somewhere. If you were not bred in a petri dish then you were born. And this makes you ideally special to the task of thinking, feeling, expressing and learning. But most people have only a vague memory of their childhood and therefore, they have not preserved the true ideas of learning. I suppose you could undergo deep psychological therapy to regain their use, but this would be shortsighted and just a tad expensive. A much simpler way is to use what is called memoreality training. Every person alive has the ability to do this. It's literally built right into you as a human. Modern day psychology has been playing with it for years but the best they've come up with is social engineering and forced reality compliance.

In trading the financial markets, it's no different at all. Whether you're a beginner or veteran, there's always this one thing that stands in someone's way from genuine capability.

This is what most people are after in any job or work they do ----

"Good Job"


But truthfully, this should be the least of your concerns. There are things about you that your parents never told you or taught you about you.

In walks foresight. My observations over many years, have shown me that pushing a button is simpler for people to do than to access their basic instincts in times of crisis or peril. And if you are someone who does trade with money, then you know that there certainly are times when your stress levels go beyond the usual 'norm'. And if you trade manually in some way, then you know that one basic ingredient in you, instinct, is powerful, when you harness it properly. Along with instinct, comes something called foresight. This is not some mystical or mythical 'thing'. It is as real as you are. But modern man has been taught/bred to ignore certain aspects of who and what they are and have given this job to technology and its extensions.

No matter what you trade, this is a problem. For example, EA's are only as good as their masters to think, process and evaluate. But more importantly, they're usefulness becomes obsolete when specific elements of real life change in ways that forces people to redefine what they think is true and real. And, the implications that ripple out into society.

No foresight .....


"A cat playing with a bright shiny object".


Foresight .......

Water vs market index

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F8d%2F44%2F8e%2F8d448eb735fd59d5c060455b22a2a646.png&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2Fpin%2F354447433180817720%2F&tbnid=Bnk2ZCEhk4WDuM&vet=12ahUKEwjOlZmYp83vAhV3n0sFHa3RALIQMygDegUIARCrAQ..i&docid=A3V7Ot-ujhIo8M&w=979&h=572&itg=1&q=buyers%20vs%20sellers%20market%20Dr%20Michael%20Burry&safe=strict&ved=2ahUKEwjOlZmYp83vAhV3n0sFHa3RALIQMygDegUIARCrAQ



Bells ' n ' Whistles ...........


https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/bells-and-whistles.html


Further impression and understanding ........



benefits of foresight

https://www.futuresplatform.com/blog/5-benefits-systematic-foresight-activity


Your natural born foresight is not bound to fear or greed. Nor is it only bound to personal wants or extreme circumstances.


foresight and panarchy

https://thefuturesschool.com/blog/the-origins-of-natural-foresight/


Modern day problem .......


child reaches for stove top and ouch moment

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Modern day reaction ........


parent shout at child

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A better Modern day response by 'adults' COULD be in 2 parts -

Part 1 - For the parent AND child together


Assumptions and foresight training

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Foecd-opsi.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2019%2F02%2FuElQ0geSScikC5Ejl2mV_2016-0272_03-eng.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Foecd-opsi.org%2Ftoolkits%2Fforesight-training-manual%2F&tbnid=c6QbQJ4N2Qwu5M&vet=12ahUKEwiInru8qM3vAhWGHXIKHdbDCIwQMygAegUIARCQAQ..i&docid=4eQAgjaelyZB3M&w=1000&h=717&q=foresight%20training%20manual&hl=en&safe=strict&ved=2ahUKEwiInru8qM3vAhWGHXIKHdbDCIwQMygAegUIARCQAQ


Part 2 .....


hot plate guard

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Your natural ability to remember is always there. But at some point in life, a person 'hands over the responsibility' to 'others', be it society in general, schooling, friends and family or other people with similar interests or of similar age/class/skin colour/ethnicity etc.

If you're presently a fully grown person, consider this - if I asked you to place your hand on a red hot stove, would you do it? Why? Why not?
What's stopping you? You're an 'adult' and you seem to have the attitude of knowing everything, so what's stopping you?

Now try to place your idea of self preservation, fear of being burned, fear of pain etc .... into a box off to the side.

And now just focus on the - what, how and why of your own basic thoughts and observations.

Now start to consider the outcomes that would follow if you DID place your hand on that very red, very HOT stove.

WHO would need to become involved simply because you decided to put your hand on a hot stove?

What chain of events COULD begin to happen because you put your hand on that stove?

And now this question -

What have you truly observed and learned?

I always find it funny how people 'expect' to be treated with respect but they consistently DISrespect their own thinking.

Just as I find it funny how people EXPECT to be treated like an adult but when the roof begins to leak, their neurotic side comes out.

And if you have a child or children, Ask yourself this question .......


How can you...
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From one generation to the next, this is the way maturity, knowledge, experience and learning is passed on.

Once you have gone through this post a number of times, consider this ----

How have people responded .... NOT reacted, but responded, to this virus stuff? (Putting aside people's inflated sense of self importance for a moment and their own personal issues with their own mortality)

Interesting right?

Trading is the same. Through and through.

Reminds me of the Will Smith film "I Robot" but in real life. Hehehehehe.


It's always about certain things, yeah sure you've got these ...........


Prices up and down
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And .....


Probabilities
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But none of that matters if you cannot access and use your own faculties well.


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Your assumptions and your foresight ........


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I hope this helps.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #46
  • Mar 26, 2021 1:51am Mar 26, 2021 1:51am
This can be very, very helpful for someone who is learning or wanting to learn. Take it at your own pace and wherever possible, take notes.

https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...4#post13466764 (https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/post/13466764#post13466764)


Peter

PS - I will follow up on this at a later date, but for now, I hope people enjoy their learning.
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #47
  • Mar 26, 2021 3:27am Mar 26, 2021 3:27am
Quoting PeterCaleb
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ What I am about to discuss has parts installed that have no affiliation with me at all in any way, shape or form. They are strictly for the purposes of learning. And is in no way the destination but merely the beginning. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ** The pdf version of this post will include the pictures in full. "I will never assume you are stupid, only you can do this yourself. I will never assume you are unloved, only you can feel this way. I will never beseech...
Professional copywriters rely on fear and greed factor to dull faculties so that their agenda prevails. Weak persons do get affected.
Now social media has given rise to a class of amateur copywriters who promote binary thinking agenda.
Practice makes a person perfect
  • #48
  • Edited 1:05am Mar 28, 2021 12:49am | Edited 1:05am
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If you are someone who assumes your way of thinking, of viewing a situation, is 'good enough' then ......



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This is you.

The process of thinking involves all of you. If you are a 'grown up' then realistically, in my book, you have had more than enough time to work this out. But still, I find people saying they can think, yet, when it comes to trading, all of that seems to go out the window.

So you have to ask yourself - Am I just a person trying to imitate a trader, OR, am I a person seeking to add a skill set to who and what I am?

This is the attitude of a lot of people I have encountered so far -



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It can be hard for people to admit to this, but admit to this you must.

You've probably read me saying "Your are what you bring with you into your trading." People seem to ignore, circumvent or just plain assume it's "taken care of" or "not needed". What am I referring to here?

It's always the same with anything we set out to do, or accomplish.

Step 1. Numero Uno.

And what IS step one?


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You and your thinking.

That's right.

You'd be VERY surprised at how many assumptions people make EVERY SINGLE DAY.

What the weather's like today. What good things and bad things are happening in the world.... or NOT happening. What people do NOT think about, is what they are like everyday, then miraculously, think their thinking and processes for comprehension will be better when it comes to trading.

If you are complacent, compliant and selfish in your real life, then you WILL fail in trading. If you don't understand your own faculties then you will fail. It's a certainty.

You must be willing to face your demons and look into that place that scares you the most, if you are going to have a chance at realizing that trading is an artful skill set and it requires TIME to imprint on you what you are truly dealing with.

Most of the so-called "know that already's" I have encountered on this site who have been here for years, do not understand that virtual reality is NOT reality. Never was or is or will EVER be. And just by their constant uptake of behaviors and attitudes, they show just how ignorant of themselves and others and the world they live in..... they really are. So how could you REALLY trust them to show/teach something that they do not comprehend or understand properly?

You cannot. Sure you can nibble at their heels for a while but, really, when does kissing their ass start to become a bore, tiresome and just plain self depreciating and merely encouraging THEIR worth instead of your own? If they're still here, gong round in circles like so many here, "but they know SO much", apparently, can you begin to see the obvious contradiction in that? You cannot separate real life from trading.


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In a nutshell, THIS, is what you are dealing with everyday.


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And this is what most people circumvent everyday.

Whether it be war, poverty, greed, corruption, the price of something is rising or falling, you simply CANNOT isolate real life from trading.

THIS is one of those demons I spoke of before. And you cannot ignore what's happening in real life and expect everything to be 'hunky-dory'. This is the attitude of someone who lacks internal strength, moral and ethical fiber and it presents itself in their character, every single day.

You always have options and you can always make a choice.

ALL of this is not some "new age thing" or "new thing". It's just basic (ancient) common sense.


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Here.

Up. Down. Sideways. Pictorial and Diagramatic representations. That's all. No conspiracy or secret. All these people who buy into these things - just humor me and test your thinking first before you sign that cheque.



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Try for one day, to not open your mouth and just have noise come out. Try something different.


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Confess your ignorances instead of relishing in your apparent and presumed knowledge to see what is really happening. Trading is an active learning curve BUT this doesn't mean it has to take years to work out. Don't believe the no-thinkers otherwise you'll end up just like them ..... nowhere and stuck on some internet discussion board/forum without ANY clue or power to do anything about real life, or to change anything real.

I hope that helps.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #49
  • Mar 28, 2021 2:20am Mar 28, 2021 2:20am
Basically, you are asking people to construct new patterns of behaviour and conditioning.
That's the right way to go about when you find yourself in new environment and have genuine intention of adjusting to it.

Most of us, who have not been conditioned to accept the importance of TIME, patience and frugalness, prefer to live in virtual reality or a make-believe world for it
helps us boost our self-esteem or ego.

In my own humble ways, I am trying to re-construct (or reproduce my own experiences) trading pattern behaviour in 8 to 10 steps.
Surreptitiously, I am trying to help them fight the demons of fear and greed without really being explicit about it.

Knowing well that there will be few takers on FF or for that matter any forum, I am doing it.

Sometimes, I wonder how many eyes the God has to detect carefree or careless guys like me to give all sorts of rewards or helping hand.
Perhaps it is for Him, I am doing this all.
Practice makes a person perfect
  • #50
  • Mar 28, 2021 2:38am Mar 28, 2021 2:38am
Right name for pattern is HABIT… Habits it is what has to be changed or at least good ones has dominated bad… Its is not easy to achieve, even for people aware of situation… subconscious is strong and have dramatically strong influence on our behavior.
Is it possible to do it, I do not know, I did not succeed so far ...
  • #51
  • Mar 28, 2021 3:39am Mar 28, 2021 3:39am
No not new behaviors, conditioning or habits.

Possible. Doable. Done it.

You both need to dig deeper. Please.

Peter.
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #52
  • Mar 28, 2021 4:01am Mar 28, 2021 4:01am
Quoting PeterCaleb
No not new behaviors, conditioning or habits. Possible. Doable. Done it. You both need to dig deeper. Please. Peter.
You have to provide a doable road map.
Practice makes a person perfect
  • #53
  • Mar 28, 2021 4:31am Mar 28, 2021 4:31am
Quoting simnz
{quote} You have to provide a doable road map.


I have been. It's not about perfection it's about being truthful beyond merely satisfied with being honest. No mystery or tricks or blind scavenger hunt. Not like others do, either for their own amusement or games.

It's not complicated at all. But a person's priorities must change before they comprehend certain aspects.

A shallow man must learn that he can die. A excessively deep thinking man must realize he can go mad. And a man who says he doesn't care either way, must realize it's impossible to be alive and not care at all.

And the biggest trouble - they need to believe AND do simultaneously. Not one then the other. But both together.

If someone is looking for a road map, I would start with this one ..........


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You cannot separate real life from your trading. Any other form of understanding will always come up short because it lacks the parts it 'needs'.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #54
  • Mar 28, 2021 4:40am Mar 28, 2021 4:40am
Quoting Rmg
It's all about habits. Process based goals Vs Outcome based goals. Deliberate practice of good trading habits with perseverance required. Thinking in objectivly when money involved runs against monkey brain of ours which is nearly impossible to overcome without deliberate practice. All this is BS if I don't have an egde first. Mood follow Action.


When you judge before you understand something, anything, you have capped your learning. Habits are a result not a starting point. If you believe what you are saying, then you have already lost. Your relationship with money is whatever you want it to be. For better or worse. None of what I say here is BS, but you will need to have the courage and strength to dig deeper than an excuse to stop challenging your prior "learned stuff".

I'm not philosophizing or talking mumbo jumbo. If someone cannot even break an assumption then nothing you do will change or improve your trading life in the long run. Foresight is a wonderful teacher.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #55
  • Mar 28, 2021 4:46am Mar 28, 2021 4:46am
Peter…
Kahneman, Murphy, Gladwell, Siegel, Douglas, Pring, Taleb, Peterson, Goleman, von Mises, Buzan, Ariely, Holiday, Dispenza, Lipton, de Melo, Robins, Tracy, Singer…
Just a very few from my list I got through in my search for better me…
Seems wrong direction or what?
  • #56
  • Mar 28, 2021 4:48am Mar 28, 2021 4:48am
If you cannot think properly and clearly, you have no edge.

So stop focusing on just the things you want to learn meanwhile running away from the things you need to learn. This is the only way. There is no other. Your 'modern brain' wants and expects it to be complex but really, the situation is not opaque at all. Change your priorities and you can learn.

Backwards thinking craves shock and awe. Better thinking appreciates the whole situation as it is.

Do the work and you'll see.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #57
  • Mar 28, 2021 4:54am Mar 28, 2021 4:54am
Quoting BlackNapkins
Peter… Kahneman, Murphy, Gladwell, Siegel, Douglas, Pring, Taleb, Peterson, Goleman, von Mises, Buzan, Ariely, Holiday, Dispenza, Lipton, de Melo, Robins, Tracy, Singer… Just a very few from my list I got through in my search for better me… Seems wrong direction or what?


What's your real motivation? Same with trading.

They are just people. Sit with that statement for a while.

If you have a wife or husband, don't you need to have self control, tolerance and observational skills? Why is trading any different?


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #58
  • Mar 28, 2021 4:56am Mar 28, 2021 4:56am
Quoting Rmg
{quote} Hahaha.. Without a trading edge/niche all the philosophical talks are BS that's what I meant not what you said all BS. I have drugged deeper than you think as it taking a tall in my life. I made the above statement not just my personal opinion it's based on sound research upon countless hour spent on experts opinion. I am learning every day and I get the kick out of it.

If you cannot think properly and clearly, you have no edge.

So stop focusing on just the things you want to learn meanwhile running away from the things you need to learn. This is the only way. There is no other. Your 'modern brain' wants and expects it to be complex but really, the situation is not opaque at all. Change your priorities and you can learn.

Backwards thinking craves shock and awe. Better thinking appreciates the whole situation as it is.

Do the work and you'll see.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #59
  • Mar 28, 2021 4:59am Mar 28, 2021 4:59am
Quoting PeterCaleb
If you cannot think properly and clearly, you have no edge. So stop focusing on just the things you want to learn meanwhile running away from the things you need to learn. This is the only way. There is no other. Your 'modern brain' wants and expects it to be complex but really, the situation is not opaque at all. Change your priorities and you can learn. Backwards thinking craves shock and awe. Better thinking appreciates the whole situation as it is. Do the work and you'll see. Peter
Getting aware and changing priorities is the key. I agree.
Practice makes a person perfect
  • #60
  • Mar 28, 2021 5:02am Mar 28, 2021 5:02am
This is not the usual thread about any one topic or subject. Rmg - I have reported your post for cleanup. Nothing personal. I suggest you use pm to offer that kind of video link for now on OK.

Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
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