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Using Fractals Profitably

  • #61
  • Edited 11:19pm Jun 29, 2010 10:25pm | Edited 11:19pm
Quoting dancingphil
I do love this EA, but I don't want the MA filters influencing trades - I simply want fractal trades with the trade management this EA has built into it.

Also, I use 4 digit brokers with microlots, so how to set the EA up correctly for that? All I do is drop the last "0" from the settings to make it 4 digit?

Great work guys.

OH, and pipjunky, your link to video on this EA's use is a dead link here in China. Maybe the beta of it didn't work-out, maybe it is because many tube sites are blackholed here in China.
Now seen the videos, they work from Australia, so it must be the China playing Big Brother thing...

@pipjunky

Thanks for the videos on your method by the way. This method is very simple but yet profitable....


Thank you
  • #62
  • Jun 30, 2010 10:06am Jun 30, 2010 10:06am


Quoting pipjunky
...trading kept simple is the best bet...



Why was I not listening to you 2 years ago????





What I was using in my own system...

  1. 30 trendlines....(6 with particular meaning)
  2. fractal high and low S/R (H1, H4, D1, W1 and MN1) In search of a programming need I stumbled upon your thread.
  3. 8 different moving averages
  4. overbought oversold indicator
  5. 8 candle patterns
  6. Round numbers

On paper my system was profitable. But it took 10 minutes to decide to trade when trading on a 5M timeframe LOL.... and thats with bells and whistles on my indicators.

Having said all that, 1 good thing came out of it all. I can do technical analysis at a reasonable speed now.

Thanks for your system... I've taken 2 profitable trades with it, in about 2 hours of use....

  • #63
  • Jul 2, 2010 8:48am Jul 2, 2010 8:48am
Using PipJunky's system it might be an advantage to know when a fractal you are trading off becomes a higher timeframe fractal.

Hence I made this MTF Fractals.
The higher the timeframe of the fractal, the larger the fractal object becomes and the darker the edge of the fractal object becomes.

M30, H1, H4, D1 are the default higher fractals and each of these will be shown on any chart timeframe that is less than the TF. So you don't have to be using M5 or M15 to see the D1 fractals. If you switch to the H1 TF, then the indicator should automatically show H1 to D1 fractals still.

To change these for other timeframes will require a little understanding of mq4 to unblock the appropriate code written in the mq4 file, and then re-arrange index values. One point if wanting to do this is, the highest timeframe needs to have the lowest index of 0 and 1 for upper and lower fractals, and index of 7 and 8 for the lowest timeframe upper and lower fractals.

Hope its useful to the fractal traders here and many pips come your way
aquaart



Those that can --- do. Those that can't --- teach.

Is this an automatically hypocritical statement to say the above phrase to someone? Cause if I were to say the above phrase to someone its really also saying "I'm trying to teach you a lesson". So maybe its only hypocrites who say that to someone.
Just a deep profound brain thing that was inside my head...
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: MTF Fractals.jpg Size: 62 KB
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 MTF Fractals.mq4   11 KB | 4,087 downloads
  • #64
  • Edited 3:39pm Jul 3, 2010 2:51pm | Edited 3:39pm
Teaching is the best way to learn any subject more thoroughly, and we are all teachers at something.

Thanks for your MTF fractal indy. I am guessing that with the 2 bars in arrears to paint a fractal, the added larger time frame fractals will be added well after the fact of those fractals on the exisitng chart.

Perhaps painting smaller time frame fractals on the current chart maybe a more useful indicator of future direction.

That is, some indication on the 15 min chart of what the 5min and 1 min TF have just produced by way of fractals may indicate to us what could be about to happen on the current TF. Ditto for larger time frames of course, each being painted with shorter time frame fractal patterns.

What do you think?
  • #65
  • Edited 9:29pm Jul 4, 2010 7:17pm | Edited 9:29pm
Quoting dancingphil
That is, some indication on the 15 min chart of what the 5min and 1 min TF have just produced by way of fractals may indicate to us what could be about to happen on the current TF.
What do you think?
Agreed, it narrows the amount of chart you would have to look at to get the same signal. How to do it???? not sure...

Painting lower TF fractals onto higher TF charts may need to you reference another chart or excel data which is beyond what I have done before.... Because the way that I did this, is just a matter of looking at individual candle data, which is obviously not possible in reverse.

I like your idea, cause your trading the lower TF by having the higher TF sitting in front of you. It takes you to the higher TF candles, trend, highs/lows that are much more reliable for entry. But then allows you to have your 5 minute entry signal.
  • #66
  • Jul 8, 2010 2:51am Jul 8, 2010 2:51am
I can't do fractals of a lower timeframe painted on a higher timeframe.

But I believe this could be an improvement on the entry signal.

The entry signal to this system is based upon fractals which occur before the complete 5 bar fractal is completed (that is at the completion of the 4th bar of a typical fractal signal. (because in testing I found out that, out of 100% of potential signals at the close of the 4th bar within fractal formation, just over 80% go on to form the full 5 bar fractal low/high.

How do fractals work? Typical fractal Highs are based on quotes making higher highs and then lower highs on a bar by bar basis over a 5 bar period.

Or the reverse for fractal lows, lower lows and then higher lows.

But what is it that normally makes the bold section (i.e change in direction) occur?
Simple answer is that for fractal highs lower highs are lower... duh OR what is nearly always the case the CLOSES are lower. So I thought I would add the Close into the fractal high, or the Close into the fractal low formula.

This is what I found with the new indicator:

  1. 11 of 46 fractal signals were given 1 bar earlier. (normally a good thing) shown by white lines in diagram below.
  2. 31 of 46 fractal signals were given at the exact same time.
  3. None of the fractal signals were later. (expected)

The remaining 4 signals and different signals:

  1. 4 of 46 fractal signals were not given by the new indicator BUT out of those 4, 3 of them would have been negative for most traders (shown by # in diagram below) (possible decrease in the negative trades shown by the pink lines)
  2. 3 different signals were given by the new indicator of which 2 (shown by ** in diagram below) were positive. (possible increase in the positive trades shown by orange lines).

This was only 1 test of the 5 min EURUSD chart.

If you want to install it, please tell us your thoughts for your timeframe and symbol traded.

In addition it has alarm built into the new fractal indicator

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Fractals 1 Bar Earlier Indicator.jpg Size: 169 KB
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 New_sFractals.mq4   8 KB | 3,004 downloads
  • #67
  • Jul 9, 2010 11:10am Jul 9, 2010 11:10am
Nice to have simple directionality built into a fractal signal. This is the trouble with EAs that do things automatically, it can't see other things happening at the same time like whether the close of the previous bar is supporting the direction of the trend. Pipjunky uses a manual entry, and I agree with him because the human eye can spot instantly patterns that are hidden from EAs programing. This tool should help to enter on some trades one bar sooner, if everything else looks right.

Best wishes,

CatPreacher

[quote=aquaart;3859182]I can't do fractals of a lower timeframe painted on a higher timeframe.

But I believe this could be an improvement on the entry signal.

...
But what is it that normally makes the bold section (i.e change in direction) occur?
Simple answer is that for fractal highs lower highs are lower... duh OR what is nearly always the case the CLOSES are lower. So I thought I would add the Close into the fractal high, or the Close into the fractal low formula.
  • #68
  • Jul 9, 2010 4:22pm Jul 9, 2010 4:22pm
@ Aquaart, you've done some serious work with this new Fractal Indy, thank you for that. Well done.

It certainly does give in many instances an earlier notification of what is happening - or more importantly, what is ABOUT to happen. I love it.

On a quick study of my charts, I am seeing many of your fractals appearing where standard fractals don't, and many of those instances are where the bars have the same high-highs or low-lows.

I "think" in the standard fractal it treats 2 bars or more of the same height as being one bar. So that would explain why standard fractals didn't appear, whereas your indy picked up the change in direction nicely.

The other thing I notice is that many times your indy pics the change in direction 1 bar earlier.

Very nicely done. I'm looking forward to testing it on Monday when the markets open.
  • #69
  • Edited 5:46pm Jul 10, 2010 10:56am | Edited 5:46pm
Quoting dancingphil
I "think" in the standard fractal it treats 2 bars or more of the same height as being one bar. So that would explain why standard fractals didn't appear, whereas your indy picked up the change in direction nicely.
Not sure.... ....but as there are 2 values going into the calculation now, it makes it a lot less likely that an adjacent double bottom / top will not be picked as a possible turning point.

Quoting dancingphil
The other thing I notice is that many times your indy pics the change in direction 1 bar earlier. Very nicely done.
Using the below 4 hour chart as a reference there are:
126 directed fractal points...
30 of these directed fractal points were 1 bar earlier than a standard fractal. Orange for sell and lime for buy.
3 fractal points were actually late, (with 2 out of those 3 being bad for trading but were actually made worse by being late) Purple lines.
5 directed fractal points were created (that would not have been standard fractals). 4 out of 5 of these were good. Blue lines.

So like the 5 minute chart where just under a quarter of the signals were generated early, (11 out of 46) on the 4 hour chart a quarter were generated early too (30 out of 126). In general the early signals seem to be good for trading.

CatPreacher seem to give a better name of Directed Fractal indicator.

I'm glad you like it hope becomes a useful part of your trading.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EURUSD_Directed_Fractals.jpg Size: 90 KB
  • #70
  • Edited 10:14am Jul 11, 2010 9:37am | Edited 10:14am
Quoting dancingphil
@ Aquaart, you've done some serious work with this new Fractal Indy, thank you for that. Well done.

It certainly does give in many instances an earlier notification of what is happening - or more importantly, what is ABOUT to happen. I love it.

On a quick study of my charts, I am seeing many of your fractals appearing where standard fractals don't, and many of those instances are where the bars have the same high-highs or low-lows.

I "think" in the standard fractal it treats 2 bars or more of the same height as being one bar. So that would...

Might not be as good as it first looks....

In the system that pipjunky's blog gives good video explanations on, we enter on the 4th bar of the formation of a 5 bar fractal pattern. This means that all the potential fractals at that 4th bar that do not make it to the full 5 bar fractal pattern are HIGHLY likely to be losers.

STANDARD fractal indicator....
In testing I found with a standard fractal, that those that made it to the 4th bar 81% of the time went on to form the full fractal and hence 81% of trades had the potential to be profitable.

Directed Fractal Indicator i.e New_sFractals
Its completion of the 5 bar "fractal" after reaching the 4 bar point was only 76%. Down by 5%.

So is the 25% of trades that are now being picked up earlier offset by the 5% increase in trades that are almost guaranteed losers?


However, in picking a spot that was obviously trending downwards, out of all of the 4 bar set ups 90% of those went on to complete the full 5 bar directed fractal. So if your sure of the trend, like hindsight gives you, the rate of completion in that direction is significantly improved.
  • #71
  • Edited 9:29pm Jul 13, 2010 9:10pm | Edited 9:29pm
Need someone who knows how to code....

Trying to modify this EA so that it makes a single trade when a "Directed Fractal" is given.
This EA requires manual confirmation and should not be used as a set and forget EA.

If the typical fractal is:
(High[i-2] < High[i] && High[i-1] < High[i] && High[i+1]<High[i] && High[i+2]<High[i])


Directed fractals are given by:
((High[i-2]+Close[i-2])/2<(High[i]+Close[i])/2) && (High[i-1]+Close[i-1])/2<(High[i]+Close[i])/2) && (High[i+1]+Close[i+1])/2 < (High[i]+Close[i])/2 && (High[i+2]+Close[i+2])/2 < (High[i]+Close[i])/2)

((Low[i-2]+Close[i-2])/2 > (Low[i]+Close[i])/2 && (Low[i-1]+Close[i-1])/2 > (Low[i]+Close[i])/2 && (Low[i+1]+Close[i+1])/2 < (Low[i]+Close[i])/2 && (Low[i+2]+Close[i+2])/2 < (Low[i]+Close[i])/2)

It compiles properly (gives the smile face) but no trades are taken, or even offered when wanting to manually confirm.

Also as per pipjunky's system found on his blog found in the 2nd video, the trade should be offered at the opening of the 5th bar of a directed fractal formation (not the completion of the directed fractal but at the opening of the most recent bar that would go to form the directed fractal).

Attached is my attempt to change NSWave into a directed fractal EA.

Any help would be much appreciated.
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 NSWave_Directed_Fractal_EA v1.0.mq4   5 KB | 1,739 downloads
  • #72
  • Edited 1:11am Jul 14, 2010 12:25am | Edited 1:11am
After not working all day, the EA in the above post just worked then....

I have no idea why, if anyone can work out why.... that would be fantastic...


Thanks
aquaart

And the trade was profitable.

Update it has just worked 3 times in a row.....
Not sure what was stopping it earlier as i have not changed any settings....

If anyone could work out why it might not work that would be really good...
  • #73
  • Jul 14, 2010 1:47am Jul 14, 2010 1:47am
UPDATE: I AM AN IDIOT!!!!!!

I forgot that the EA has broker time settings were it will not operate before the "StartTrading" hour that I the user set or after the "StopTrading" hour that I the user set.

DUH!!!!!!
I am not very smart but I can lift heavy things...
...(when my wife helps me)

Hope you enjoy the EA courteousy of pipjunky and smjones. It was manipulated so that it trades off what CatPreacher called directed fractals indicator instead of the fractals indicator.

I use the EA in the same way as pipjunky on the blog's videos. Except I now use directed fractals as my entry.

Also remember this is not a set and forget EA. Under the 'Common' tab of the EA always make sure the 'Ask manual confirnation' box is ticked.

EA and indicator attached below.
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 Close_Directed_Fractals.mq4   8 KB | 2,693 downloads
File Type: mq4 NSWave_Directed_Fractal_EA v1.0.mq4   5 KB | 2,241 downloads
  • #74
  • Jul 15, 2010 8:46pm Jul 15, 2010 8:46pm
Hey Sam,

Quoting samk090905
also; is there any way to turn off the alerts: they TURN ON all the time. so far; it's a great indi.
Alerts should be optional with the version attached. I have alerts set to true as the system in Pipjunky's videos has this, as the entry signal shown on the blog.


Quoting samk090905
is the only difference b/w yours and the mt4's is that yours gives an indication 1 bar earlier?
This version of fractals is close quote directed, meaning that because true fractals often have an early indication of direction by the closing quote of a candle, by averaging the close with the high/low (which is what is used for true fractal calculation), you should sometimes pick up a change in direction earlier (and occassionally later). It does also give a few extra non fractal signals that tend to be positive for trading.

So far i have found that it picks up the change in direction 1 bar earlier (very rarely 2 bars earlier) just under a quarter of the time (on any TF of EURUSD). In addition, what I am finding is the times where the close directed fractals are later than the true fractal signal, they are more likely to be candle formations that will not go on to complete what would be the full fractal.

However when trading with the trend (where PriceChannel_Stop found on the bottom right column of the blogs video web page again, is a good trend indicator) so far I have found that the 4th bar of fractal formation entry signal to be just as accurate with this directed fractals indicator as it is for any true fractals indicator.


However for BACK TESTING ONLY, I have attached the 4 Bar Fractals which again is directed fractals, however, it shows all the signals that made it to the 4th bar (which therefore includes those that made it to 5th bar).

To do manual back testing attach this one 1st, and then attach the close directed fractals 2nd. That way you should see a difference between the possible entry signal (close of 4th Bar) that went the wrong way, and entry signal that initially went the right way.
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 Close_Directed_Fractals.mq4   8 KB | 2,064 downloads
File Type: mq4 New_sFractals_4_Bar_Fractal.mq4   8 KB | 2,431 downloads
  • #75
  • Jul 16, 2010 3:59am Jul 16, 2010 3:59am
thank you for the reply. clearly your ability to understand this is far beyond what i can comprehend. if you could please dumb it down for me.

 

  1. the fractal i have is called New_sFractals. there is no alarm off option in there. is the close directed fractal the updated one to this one?
  2. what does this mean "It does also give a few extra non fractal signals that tend to be positive for trading." what do you mean positive for trading
  3. im sorry. can you please explain this again? "where the close directed fractals are later than the true fractal signal, they are more likely to be candle formations that will not go on to complete what would be the full fractal.."
  4. overall in your testing; have you found this closed fractal to be better than the mt4 fractal indi?

thank you very much. sorry for the ignorance.

  • #76
  • Jul 16, 2010 8:51am Jul 16, 2010 8:51am
Quoting samk090905

the fractal i have is called New_sFractals. there is no alarm off option in there. is the close directed fractal the updated one to this one?
yes same indicator except sound alert has been made optional

Quoting samk090905
what does this mean "It does also give a few extra non fractal signals that tend to be positive for trading." what do you mean positive for trading
There are rare points due to averaging of the high or low quote with the close that are picked as a fractal point by the indicator that i have posted. However a standard fractal indicator that comes with MT4 does not pick them as fractals (because they are not true fractals). However tend to be positive for trading then means that quotes tends to head in the direction that these new directed fractal points suggest that quotes should go.

Quoting samk090905
im sorry. can you please explain this again? "where the close directed fractals are later than the true fractal signal, they are more likely to be candle formations that will not go on to complete what would be the full fractal.."
A full typical fractal is made up of 5 bars with the 3rd bar always having the highest high (for fractal highs). The fractal signal however is first shown at the close of the 2nd last candle to form in the signal. The last candle to form then determines whether the fractal signal should remain on the charts or not.

The aim of averaging the close price of each of these candles is too pick the turning point a bar or 2 earlier. This thereby allows the fractal signal to be given a bar or 2 earlier. However occassionally it does the reverse of this, and does not pick it to a bar too late.

In the cases where the new indicator is later than the standard fractal indicator, the quotes an increased tendency to move in the wrong direction anyway.

Quoting samk090905
overall in your testing; have you found this closed fractal to be better than the mt4 fractal indi?
It really depends on what u want it for.

If for early signalling of a "potential fractal" then yes. Approximately just under 25% of the time it gives a 1 bar earlier signal.

If wanting it for accuracy of fractals and measuring highs and lows etc.... then no its not. It tends to be just under 5% less accurate than the real fractals given built in to MT4.
  • #77
  • Jul 19, 2010 3:34pm Jul 19, 2010 3:34pm
thank you aquaart. i will try to study this a bit more. it's a bit diffcult to understand this concept. please keep us/me updated if you make improvements on this indi.

i use your indi to confirm the mt4 fractal that appears; until i have more of an understanding of your indi.
  • #78
  • Jul 20, 2010 8:22pm Jul 20, 2010 8:22pm
I have been trading renko 10 pip using Pipchi Hercules Ea- v1 with fantastic results. But now EA is not making any more trades. Not sure why? Any one has an idea why ?

Thanks
  • #79
  • Aug 24, 2011 2:03am Aug 24, 2011 2:03am
Hi Pipjunky....

I found your thread here while searching about Fractals.

I downloaded the indi and ea from post #12 and I'm liking it

Do you still using this system? after 3 years++ ...any update?

Thanks
Lets make some green pips
  • #80
  • May 28, 2012 9:30am May 28, 2012 9:30am
Seems like a very good idea.... Found this while looking for an SR indicator.....

I'll download later...
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