Trading job without degree, would I qualify?

Maybe it sounds strange, but what do u think about it?
So, is there any chance to get a trading (stock or forex) job without any qualificationsdegree, but with a really good proven track record (statement from a broker) for 3-4 or more years with real-money?
How HF's and banks would think about it? Would any of them hire a profitable trader with evidences, but without any qualifications?
Looking forward for ur answers

without highly accredited qualifications(ie masters or phd in some type of hard math or CS) from a upper tier school it is nearly impossible to get on a desk. You could have an absolutely great record, but without those qual criteria it doesnt really matter. Chances are there are many others with the great record along with well respected qualifications. Banks and HFs look for the best of the best. I knew a kid who went to a very target school, had built a great track record, had a good gpa, masters from a top school in the world and couldnt get a job at a bank.

This industry is cutthroat my friend. Networking can do a lot if you have decent qualifications. The rest is just luck!
If you have a great track record, why not just trade for yourself?

I agree with msfoste1 for the most part, luck plays a great role in landing a trading/analyst job with/without a degree. You'd be better off trading your own money or starting your own hedge fund. Most guys/gals that land these jobs are from top schools and often are get burned out within 2 years.

Well, That begs the question : Why would you want to work for anyone else ?

i have a lot of friends that graduated a few years ahead of me that have been working in PE/BB analyst. Most of them are burnt out already and looking for new jobs cause they hate doing this so much now. Im not sure if S & T is different? i would have to imagine it would be a lot more exciting than analyst......

Without degree and/or experience i highly doubt you could enter on a trading floor.
I have both, and still facing walls to get a descent job.

You should try every prop trading firms, some of them got descent prop trading program from what i have heard.
And don't be scared to be a trader for the Reserve bank of Zimbabwe if you got the opportunity.

Good luck to you anyway

For what it is worth you are better off putting your brains towards something for yourself. You could be uber smart and put on a desk, given an account to trade and do well. You will make and income but for the amount of stress and time it would likely not be worth it. You would probably have to go through the usual process of being a lacky before actually securing your own desk.

I have been self employed for a number of years simply because I have found that the harder you work for someone else, the more money you put in there pocket and usually also the more responsibility put on yours for no increase. I am lucky to work 4 full days in summer (usually 2-3 days in winter) and I make 30% more than I did at my last job. I wake up when I want, I finish when I want and I take lunch when I want. I could work 5 days a week if I chose to and make more but I enjoy time with my kids. Trading for me is a hobby that I enjoy and I cannot imagine why I would want to be in a pressure cooker with someone else's money and a boss expecting results.

1 Boss is too much, imagine managing funds for hundreds of them.

Put you brains to better use and make what you can out of YOUR time.

RT

Why do you look for a job if you can make good money from home?

As others have said slim to none. There are too many folks with a better pedigree out of work right now in line ahead of you.

You could look into joining a prop trading firm that will sponsor your series 7, get licensed, and trade professionally for a few years, then you'll have a resume to start applying with regular firms if you still want to pursue that path. Good luck!

To those who are asking why you wouldn't simply trade for yourself consider the following:

Would you rather keep 100% of 100,000 or 1% of 100,000,000?

As for a career path, I suggest finding a prop trading firm that will help you get your series 7 and 63 licenses. See if you can get qualified as a CFA level II minimum. Those are the qualifications of most of the traders I've worked with during my internship at RBS.

I'm sure all of that may be necessary but I also read an article that stated that a well known bank was looking (seriously) at professional poker players to add to their trading arsenal.

If you think about that for a minute, it makes sense.

Getting a degree form a top tier university will help a person for the rest of their natural life. It has to be top tier not any just any uiversity ..... hell even i have a degree in engineering but not form a top university and i now realize it makes a big difference.

Take any of the top people from any of the major corporations ....citibank/jp morgan/goldman scahs ...the top hedge funds the overwhelming majority of them are ivy league types.

I can give you an example I've seen in my own life, my sister ........ distinction in masters from the london school of economics, rhodes scholar and PhD in economics from Cambridge University. I've seen first hand the benefits she's gotten from this with my very own eyes. Almost all the major corporations in here line of work were willing to take her and it doesn't matter if she loses her job coz there are people lined up to employ here. Not only that she's gotten promotions much faster and although she's very clever i think a major reason is coz many of her bosses are from the same colleges so naturally they prefer their own people.

In my country i know a guy who trained as an arbitrageur right after high school, this was in the 90's, today all he is is just a dealer, the compnay havent promoted him because of his lack of qualification, and its not even a very good company.

I keep telling young people study hard and get into a top college because in the long run you'll be ahead in life and won't have to struggle as hard as the rest of us.

Dear Traders,

I am new in the forum, and have been watching a few threads here and there silently on the backrow. What Razor_trader said encouraged me to speak up abit on trading.

For all who wishes to secure a job in trading, you are effectively looking for a job - take note that i say, a job. You longer have the freedom to work the way you want as a self employed. What he says really make sense.

Unless you are hoping to use the firm's funds to test drive your trading ideas or to collect experience to divert losses to the firm's account (or reduce psychological losses in your own sense, which most firms will reject you for that anyway), you're probably better off trading by yourself.

Nevertheless, most of the trading firms in my country (Singapore) do not hire people without degrees. Know why? A degree will show a sustained commitment to whatever endeavour you are pursuing (in the trading firm's perspective). However, what really matters is the resume and how you present your mind (yourself). That's what make the firm interviewer's heart tick (or their potential greed for sourcing you in, ticking).

Cheers.

i watched wall street warriors adn this russian guy that lives in new york he was a cabbie but finished a degree in economics in russia before,he tried trading nd Nows is a hedge fund manager ,lol
interesting i also watched floor and the traders in chicaGo exchange say that majority of them dint even finish proper college,some of them finished high school
but that was back then before computers in the trading world ewhich now take 70% of the trading volume,hmmm
,and some of those guys featured have lost monbey since the ea's came ,because of high volatility ,because they say that before it was to trade,most of them readed each others emotions on when to buy

watch floored its free

lol i heard this one ,in this tv show i saw they said that the best bonds trader in the world is the famous poker guy who made millions counting numbers at the poker tables in casinos,just like in that movie 21

Yeah, before anyone reminds me that I bumped in an old thread... I never understood this... why this would be a big deal, because why not, why opening a new thread when there is already a good (seed)... Also in science people tend to "reply" after 50years, it is not uncommon. So I will reply to this rather "young" post...

Please if anyone have better information, bring it on, but I will share my views on this..

MY VIEW(s) ONLY:

Does degree count? Sure, but before we talk further, what TRADING are we really talking about here... Because trading term has become very wide...

TRADING as LIQUIDTY/MARKET providers/makers.. (investment banking jobs etc)
This has nothing to do with trading as we know/talk here...
They just provide liquidy, filling orders etc...
But you would need one of the most qualified/stable people for this because you can not risk that some nutcase will make a billion dollar loss because of some mistake or even worse, because he/she didn't know or the worst... because he/she ASSUMED something... that wasn't true... Hence you would need
a very good candidates that know how to OBEY... that they can be controlled ("regulated") and are (at least partly) institutionalised.
I do not agree with everything this guy says but I think he have/d a good insight and is destroying many myths and also help distinguish different types of trading that are more different than white and black (which are at least in the same category.. both are colours

Investment banking seem to be similar to medicine, very "clear" road, what you have to do to get ahead.. but with higher fail-rate... due to personal reasons or not pulling enough quota...

TRADING as scientist, data-analyst, programmer, IT expert etc..
You need a qualified candidates that would would seem to know what they are talking about.
Sure one can know this things without a degree, but that is unlikely.. specially regarding the advanced scientific things, modelling etc... But the opposite is usually true for IT/computer experts that are ussualy (the best ones) self-taught... and they somewhat despise the institution(alised) teaching (approach)... So you can find many computer wizard without almost any schools at all, not because they coulnd't do it but because they either do not believe in it, hate it or have invested/sold their time in some more profitable activity (at least at the time - specially when there was surge of "IT"/comp (experts) demand).
About the quants/scientists in WS... a good clip


TRADING as salesman etc...
Wolf of Wall Street (2013) movies, WS87 etc... It shows that brokers etc... are just glorified salesman.. they push opportunities, they got it right sometimes...
or have the "source" that provides them maybe even with the quality or "not uncertain" type of info... But if they would trade completely by themselves, they would
most probably burn/blow the account rather fast or just stall (if they would have the discipline to do that at all. The ones that would like to have stable/predictable job either do not pursue this at all or drop-out fast, if they get accepted at all... or if they adapt, yes, that includes becoming the stereotype adapt or die

TRADING as having the information (yes, insides
Their job is the same as (some of) the ones assisting professional athletes etc...
The name of the game is how to be ahead of the other side, how to get away with it.
How to present the "info" as "research"... That can go to an extend, for example, hiring very qualified people, even
ivy league people (for image), hiring/building data-centers... In fact this is what got Madoff maybe, big players didn't want to invest because his accounting department looked suspiciously small for trading of his size... If he would did that also, we might not know about him at all, he would maybe be too big to fail
But yeah, at the core of it there is just one simple info, although heavily disguised as skill/luck/algorithm Because as I have said many times... If there would really be some TRUE (ethernal) edge.. one would need 20 good trades to becaome a trillionaire out of pocket change... For example 33 (profitable) trades in a row, TP20, 500:1, 10% margin/stop... for 1000USD->1+ TRILLION Or 9 TP200 500:1 10% margin/stop for 1000USD->1 TRILLION
AD: "Trading" as boiler room, chop shop, bubble/ponzi, front, laundry etc, also no "real" trading.. No need to explain further I think/hope.


TRADING as we know/hope it
There are no (long-term) rules here...
There is no school for it.. The academic/scientific world is somewhat obsessed with how to make profits out of market(s) but they fail miserably.
FED for example have (I think) 140+ PhD scientist whose sole job is how to predict the inflation and they still can't figure it out.
Can you imagine having a GRADUATED trader that would be BLOWING account(s) and he would be from IVY League?
They just prefer to avoid this, to avoid the humiliation.

But the ones that do (appear) to have the juice... are drowning in money, opportunities... The question is what is the critical point...
It would appear to be a combination of RETURN, EXPOSURE, RECORDED (verified) HISTORY of trades, IMAGE (although that is not that important after certain threshold) and AUM... After certain AUM, you have the opposite problem. How to get potential investors get off your back, pushing/forcing you with money...
Madoff had like 10+% returns but consistent and they gave him all the possible titles, money.... NASDAQ chairman for crying out loud. Even when some were saying this is impossible even by basic equation check... they were disregarded as envious.. Similar if you would say anything bad about certain type of "can not go wrong" investments... that are hyping now with massive returns, making people millionaires from almost nothing... Bubbles are eternal... and ponzi component could always be present even in the most innocent investments, even real estates have the bubble (that we know (now)) and ponzi component (hard to recongise in non-obvious investments)... if you look closely...

But ok back to the track... If you have THE JUICE.. in REAL trading.. which means.. "PREDICTING" any market over periods of time.. AND/OR if you can not only do that but be profitable.. so to master the prediction, risk management, emotional management, personality, capital etc... and be PROFITABLE.. If you have that...
Nothing else matters, specialy now. You could sell signals, provide COPIES to your trades, post/contribute... And if you are luck be hired by company or even government, for insights... You could be hired for (hedge) funds etc... anything.. The question is IF and HOW BIG juice you have... For example if you could DOUBLE the money at 10% DD max.. year after year... You would have to hire personal bodyguards from head-hunters... because they would be trying to hunt you down for a 6figure starting job + heavy bonuses The less you have it, the more image, qualifications, degrees, certificates, sales and newtworking (kissing) you would have to do

I might be wrong however, please share your insights/views!

Take care.

I worked on a bank trading floor, no way in hell you get in without a degree. At least in Canada and I think to a certain level in the States, proprietary trading desks have mostly gone extinct from banks trading floors. A big part of the job is trying to figure out how you can arb your counterparties, the less you have market exposure, the more you can lever the banks balance sheet; a track record is of no use here. Its more about trying to lever the bank's infrastructure and use those advantages vs other market participants. They need smart people who can automate processes, get things done faster and know finance well (or be smart enough to learn) to figure out where they can engineer edges.

best bet is a prop firm. In my area they are getting more selective but they won't turn down a solid return track record. You probably won't get in without experience AND without a degree.

Getting to a hedge fund is a tricky one. The industry is not growing at all because of overall high fees and dismal performance vs the market. The trend for hedge funds recently has been in private equity and more alternative hedge fund finding new edge in novel ideas. A track record will not help you there either. They need lateral thinkers who usually has specific knowledge about an industry or a market. They mostly hire specialists of the industries in which they invest in, ex investment bankers and ex consultants (think Mckinsey).

But this being the gig economy, in today's world you can freelance your way to managing OPM. If you know how to code, quantopian can be a solid option. Code a strategy, backtest it, enter their contest and if they like it they give you millions for your algo to trade. No degree or actual track record needed. Their is also a broker out there allocating money to their customer. They came up with a score to evaluate their traders, if you beat their score they give you money. I'm sure their are other options out there, I'm currently investigating it.

I think you are more than capable if you will show them your past experience with some forex broker, it should be not a problem at least with some of them really. How does that all sounds ? Sounds good I would say. Also be prepared to reply them if you are so good (if you are really LOL) then why not doing all that for yourself really. Does it have something like that in your mind ? Any changes ? See my point here completely and totally. Be carefull cause it's still risky.

The last one you mentioned (that with the score) is PsyQuation. They look quite serious to me.

and they are just getting better now...
( although in actuality we are talking about Axitrader, the owner of Psy)