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Breaking: ESMA finalizes new rules to govern leveraged trading

  • #81
  • Mar 31, 2018 11:40am Mar 31, 2018 11:40am
including forex, leverage down to 30 max for eu regulated brokers

https://www.financemagnates.com/fore...aign=29.3.2018
WaBaS Where are Buyers and Sellers
  • #82
  • Mar 31, 2018 3:10pm Mar 31, 2018 3:10pm
That is why I wanted to trade forex, I just imagine working at ESMA or such institution, and spending a life in misery, thinking such bullshits. Whoever is profitable will stay profitable, but it is just a pain in the ass- they keep finding ways to fuck with us a little bit from their 9-5 desk.. just to know they are alive.
  • #83
  • Mar 31, 2018 3:44pm Mar 31, 2018 3:44pm
Yep, being paid up to €11,700 a month makes for a miserable life eh..?
https://www.esma.europa.eu/about-esma/careers

Quoting feline207
That is why I wanted to trade forex, I just imagine working at ESMA or such institution, and spending a life in misery, thinking such bullshits. Whoever is profitable will stay profitable, but it is just a pain in the ass- they keep finding ways to fuck with us a little bit from their 9-5 desk.. just to know they are alive.
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  • #84
  • Mar 31, 2018 4:17pm Mar 31, 2018 4:17pm
Quoting mr.brown
including forex, leverage down to 30 max for eu regulated brokers https://www.financemagnates.com/fore...aign=29.3.2018
Forcing brokers to work for a bread.. Still qualified traders know how to handle leverage and this limits create some problems to us
  • #85
  • Mar 31, 2018 10:41pm Mar 31, 2018 10:41pm
Quoting Spreadbetter
Yep, being paid up to €11,700 a month makes for a miserable life eh..? https://www.esma.europa.eu/about-esma/careers {quote}
12k is your dream target? (and this is probably before tax, net is somewhere around 7.5k). Oh man...you are a “pro” - you can do better!
  • #86
  • Apr 1, 2018 10:18am Apr 1, 2018 10:18am
Quoting 4for4
{quote} 30:1 leverage of $100,000 contract / lot = $3333 ... It means you have to have at least $3333 in your account to open a 1-lot trade ... (for mini-lot, just divide by 10) @ 50% margin close-out (= $1666), the position will be automatically closed if the drawdown reaches that level ... Taking commission and swap into consideration, that amount will be less ...
Thanks 4for4 for answering my query...
  • #87
  • Edited 11:08pm Apr 1, 2018 8:54pm | Edited 11:08pm
Some brokers will indicate margin as a percentage (5%) as apposed to ratio (20:1 or 1:20) *
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: zz3.PNG Size: 14 KB
Percentage -> ratio

0.5%
1:a = 0.5%. 0.5% = 1/a x 100 -> 0.5 = 100/a -> a = 100/0.5 -> a = 200.
1:a = 1:200. (or simplistically a = 100/0.5 = 200)

2%
1:a = 2 %. 2% = 1/a x 100 -> 2 = 100/a -> a = 100/2 -> a = 50.
1:a = 1:50. (or simplistically a = 100/2 = 50)

3.33%
1:a = 3.33%. 3.33% = 1/a x 100 -> 3.33 = 100/a -> a = 100/3.33 -> a = 30.
1:a = 1:30. (or simplistically a = 100/3.33 = 30)

5%
1:a = 5%. 5% = 1/a x 100 -> 5 = 100/a -> a = 100/5 -> a = 20.
1:a = 1:20 (or simplistically a = 100/5 = 20)

*source: https://www.fxpro.co.uk/trading/futures#futures-Indexes
TSLA: 30-Dec-22 123.18 // 16-Jun-23 260.54 **111.51%**
  • #88
  • Apr 2, 2018 7:31am Apr 2, 2018 7:31am
Quoting reddevil
UK brokers get their orders from FCA not ESma. cyprus brokers like tickmill get theirs from Cysec. Unless FCA or Cysec gives instruction, there is no change as far as the brokers are concerned. FCA & Cysec won't have given the instruction the day ESMA statement came out. They are all on the way out for the easter holiday weekend. Will hear something in one or two weeks from UK and Cyprus brokers.
Mmmmm I hope you're right!
  • #89
  • Apr 2, 2018 1:51pm Apr 2, 2018 1:51pm
And certain posters wonder why I become frustrated with the levels of stupidity on FF, when so many posters simply make up fantasies to curve fit their dreams..

Quote
CySEC would like to remind the Cyprus Investment Firms (“CIFs”) who provide investment services in CFDs and binary options that the ESMA product intervention measures supersede any national measures taken in relation to the same topic. The national measures that relate to topics other than those referred to in the ESMA decision remain in force.

https://www.cysec.gov.cy/CMSPages/Ge...9-423472a376d6

And it’s exactly the same situation with the U.K. FCA, who are subordinate to ESMA.

Quoting reddevil
UK brokers get their orders from FCA not ESma. cyprus brokers like tickmill get theirs from Cysec. Unless FCA or Cysec gives instruction, there is no change as far as the brokers are concerned. FCA & Cysec won't have given the instruction the day ESMA statement came out. They are all on the way out for the easter holiday weekend. Will hear something in one or two weeks from UK and Cyprus brokers.
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  • #90
  • Apr 3, 2018 12:14pm Apr 3, 2018 12:14pm
Quoting Spreadbetter
Yep, being paid up to €11,700 a month makes for a miserable life eh..? https://www.esma.europa.eu/about-esma/careers {quote}
Yes it does. Life is NOT only about how much money you make. Getting 5-10k eur after taxes is nothing special if you have in mind you sacrificed your WHOLE LIFE, that gift that God has gave you, to work for the ideas, profits and good of someone else. Most people do not even realize any purpose for their existence, they just need to land a better paid job, keep driving in traffic jams, plan a 2-week holiday once a year and make efforts to cut the good things in life to be able to buy some small real estate before they turn 50. Trading is NOT for those type of people. I have said it before, and many others have done so also. Trading is about people that are behind the wheel of their own destiny, they are the one in charge for what comes to them. Responsibility taken in exchange for the freedom to express yourself and live a more comfortable life. When you are agood trader, you can go much further than making 11k eur, yes it comes slowly, comes to <1% of those who tried. Then there are all the fuckers that spill bullshit on those forums, people that put you aside from your true goals and your better path in your life. Most people in the world are that second type of people. They are born slaves and remain slaves. It is not about being a profitable trader, there are people that have nothing to do with financial speculation, and still have gained the right to be whoever they want to be. So the question remains, why do some suckers that rely on their salaries, make a decision that would force me to deposit more money with my broker for margin of trades, why are they in charge of my own money. People should be free to do whatever they want with their life and their money. This one here is just a lobbist measure that serves the richest players in the financial scene, dressed in the regulator bullshit that is supposed to help and protect the average person. No one can stop me taking any other kind of risk, I can get all my money from the bank and throw it in the streets if i become mad, they do not stop me if i decide to do it, they do not stop people to play the lottery, go to casinos.
Why don't they limit the amount of money lost in casions if they are SO GOOD, just fuckin tell me. Why dont we limit every person to enter the casino with maximum 50 or 100 200 eur? You can go and spend 50k in one night and no one is going to protect you when you are drunk and are playing a totally rigged game that has ABSOLUTELY NO EDGE for you and will never have. And more so, no one is going to ask you where is the money from, like they do with trading and bank transfers. However, they limit your to take investment decisions with your own made money, decisions that COULD potentially give you profits, not very likely if we talk statistiaclly, but individually certainly possible! And why is that, because you think they love you and care for you? No, it is because they want you to play the game EVEN HARDER. They want any of us to remain poor and far away from the money. Forex trading has a lot of variables to be solved for one to extract consistent money, now they increase the weight of margin. I wrote it at an upper post in this thread and I write it again, the higher margin requirement does not make a trader more informed, broker leverage in itself cannot change your expectancy in a positive way. It can only change it in a negative way. With higher margin requirement, margin call and forced liquidation of your traders is not once step further, but one step closer, limit the leverage even more before some made up macro "EVENT" and then you are two steps closer. The "law" does not give me limits regarding risking my money on shitty things, however they limit my ability to take risk in something that could give me real money. Now all of you who trade, will have to deposit more money in broker accounts to have the same exposure, that money would have been put to a better use, or just rest in your local bank and not expose to the broker. They use the law to force traders to make more difficult money management decisions. They have made their calculations and it is not in the best interest of the average retail trader as every intelligent person would guess.

I dont even understand why my point of view needs further clarification and arguments. It is IN THE BEST interest of every trader to have higher capability to leverage with the broker. Like if the regulator decide to apply 100$ tax on every traded lot, and then there will be some people here who would go woohoo, I mean what the fuck? Being happy that someone is fucking with you and making your life harder. I know that for those of you here that have not been able to become good traders it either does not matter, or some malicious people would get excited that some HARM is being done. But lets be real. It is obvious for the dumbest of the dumb, what makes sense and what does not.
  • #91
  • Apr 3, 2018 3:57pm Apr 3, 2018 3:57pm
I’m replying to you out of courtesy because of the effort you’ve obviously put in with this reply, but tbh I’ve only skim read it as I'm of the opinion that this subject is now exhausted. The views are obviously binary, polar opposites. I’m 100% behind ESMA as the consumer needs protection.

I’ve been the other side of the bets and seeing the insane financial damage and self harm punters inflict on themselves, I’m pleased ESMA have taken these steps. But they haven’t suddenly banned retail FX, they’ve identified the key reason up to 90% of traders fail (excess leverage) and why they lose up to €30k. And their carefully considered decision is not all negative, for example; insisting on negative balance protection etc..

Look it’s this simple, now you'll just have to adapt or die; adjust your approach and take a more professional, less reckless attitude towards trading. In the longer term this decision will be looked upon as just imho. Fwiw I’m done on this subject now.


Quoting feline207
{quote} Yes it does. Life is NOT only about how much money you make. Getting 5-10k eur after taxes is nothing special if you have in mind you sacrificed your WHOLE LIFE, that gift that God has gave you, to work for the ideas, profits and good of someone else. Most people do not even realize any purpose for their existence, they just need to land a better paid job, keep driving in traffic jams, plan a 2-week holiday once a year and make efforts to cut the good things in life to be able to buy some small real estate before they turn 50.
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  • #92
  • Apr 4, 2018 6:41am Apr 4, 2018 6:41am
The margin requirements for spot forex is now exactly as Interactive Brokers already has. A coincident? If you gonna have margin as low as IB offers and ESMA demands, then why prefer the lesser brokerages? Everybody should open an account with IB... Makes you wonder.

I checked the IB margin requirements just now and actually don't know what they were before, but some older online reviews seems to suggest that they have been ESMA-compliant for some time..
  • #93
  • Apr 6, 2018 11:39am Apr 6, 2018 11:39am
Regulators are FORCING you to work in the environment of higher risk, lower returns, high missed opportunity cost and not to be underestimated - higher stress. Whoever is enthusiastic or happy about all of this is either: 1.not a profitable trader, 2. works for the sell side, or the fuckin esma itself haha , or 3. just one of the many haters that write on the internet (probably refers to the first group also).
End of story.
  • #94
  • Apr 6, 2018 1:32pm Apr 6, 2018 1:32pm
Quoting feline207
Regulators are FORCING you to work in the environment of higher risk, lower returns, high missed opportunity cost and not to be underestimated - higher stress. Whoever is enthusiastic or happy about all of this is either: 1.not a profitable trader, 2. works for the sell side, or the fuckin esma itself haha , or 3. just one of the many haters that write on the internet (probably refers to the first group also). End of story.
Thank you for speaking with the voice of reason brother!

We all know that the regulators are just a bunch of useful idiots who work mainly for the interest of the deep state and their hidden socialist/globalist agenda.
But we still have plenty of opportunities. For now we can still find plenty of brokers who provide good trading conditions. And as I said before, there are several loopholes in the system for us to exploit and to avoid the new regulations.

I also expect the rise of the second generation crypto currencies....this may provide good opportunities in the near future....and.....
And as a measure of last resort we can always go back to the stock market and futures.

The opportunities today are limitless! All markets are just a few clicks away.
  • #95
  • Apr 7, 2018 4:42am Apr 7, 2018 4:42am
Quoting feline207
Regulators are FORCING you to work in the environment of higher risk, lower returns, high missed opportunity cost and not to be underestimated - higher stress. Whoever is enthusiastic or happy about all of this is either: 1.not a profitable trader, 2. works for the sell side, or the fuckin esma itself haha , or 3. just one of the many haters that write on the internet (probably refers to the first group also). End of story.
Given that 89% of CFD traders lose money and 95%-99% of retail spot forex traders lose money, I would say it is highly likely those happy with this initiative are forex losers. It is after all, because of these high loss statistics that the changes are being introduced.

I would also bet my bottom $ the vast majority of those complaining about the changes to available leverage are also habitual losers who are far more addicted to the thrill of "high stakes" leverage than they are interested in making long term sustainable profits.

What do you think...?

Twice I suggested those who are pissed off at the ESMA load up a Trade explorer (for just a brief time), so we can see the beautiful, longterm, northbound trajectory of their equity curves. You know, just so they can show that for some (them), these new, ridiculous regulations are going to actually have an impact on the profits they continuously harp on about.


But there was no interest...
Come with me if you want to live....
  • #96
  • Apr 7, 2018 5:04am Apr 7, 2018 5:04am
Quoting Ill-b-back
{quote} Given that 89% of CFD traders lose money and 95%-99% of retail spot forex traders lose money, I would say it is highly likely those happy with this initiative are forex losers. It is after all, because of these high loss statistics that the changes are being introduced. I would also bet my bottom $ the vast majority of those complaining about the changes to available leverage are also habitual losers who are far more addicted to the thrill of "high stakes" leverage than they are interested in making long term sustainable profits. What do...
I did!

https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...3#post10916513

The whole discussion is running circles here. The only thing that increases is the amount of foul language used. Fact is I am earning money regularly on strategies utilizing higher leverages. This is an example. They are part of my whole portfolio, although not the main driver. But a valuable part.

I do not care about the failure of others. Low leverage strategies are of no higher value, as there are no jack of all trades approaches in this business.
  • #97
  • Apr 7, 2018 5:13am Apr 7, 2018 5:13am
Quoting Drolph
{quote} I did! https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...3#post10916513 The whole discussion is running circles here. The only thing that increases is the amount of foul language used. Fact is I am earning money regularly on strategies utilizing higher leverages. This is an example. They are part of my whole portfolio, although not the main driver. But a valuable part. I do not care about the failure of others. Low leverage strategies are of no higher value, as there are no jack of all trades approaches in this business.
2 things:
1. That's not a trade explorer
2. How do we even know it is your account?

I'm off to watch a couple of hours of Shameless with my wife (my addiction) before bed.

Chat soon.
Come with me if you want to live....
  • #98
  • Apr 7, 2018 6:01am Apr 7, 2018 6:01am
Quoting Ill-b-back
{quote} 2 things: 1. That's not a trade explorer 2. How do we even know it is your account? I'm off to watch a couple of hours of Shameless with my wife (my addiction) before bed. Chat soon.
There is no need for a trade explorer, as I am not planning to share any details of my trading strategies. That is the intention of an explorer. Not to prove sustainable profits.

It is my account, I dont care about your skepticism. But to make it a little bit harder to hate:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: prove.png Size: 32 KB
  • #99
  • Apr 7, 2018 8:35am Apr 7, 2018 8:35am
Quoting Drolph
{quote} There is no need for a trade explorer, as I am not planning to share any details of my trading strategies. That is the intention of an explorer. Not to prove sustainable profits. It is my account, I dont care about your skepticism. But to make it a little bit harder to hate: {image}
So which is it, Skeptisism? Or to hate?
Shit, what a self absorbed world we live in.
Your showing me a blank myfxbook screen. What's the point in that?
TE's show way more about ones ability to produce sustainable profits through THEIR account than they do about specific details of ones trading strategies.
Personally, I would categorise 16-18 months as a long term track record.
What I don't get is some saying reducing available leverage to 30 increases risk and brings a margin call closer.
Maybe I am missing something in my understanding of leverage??
Come with me if you want to live....
  • #100
  • Apr 7, 2018 10:08am Apr 7, 2018 10:08am
Quoting Ill-b-back
{quote} So which is it, Skeptisism? Or to hate? Shit, what a self absorbed world we live in. Your showing me a blank myfxbook screen. What's the point in that? TE's show way more about ones ability to produce sustainable profits through THEIR account than they do about specific details of ones trading strategies. Personally, I would categorise 16-18 months as a long term track record. What I don't get is some saying reducing available leverage to 30 increases risk and brings a margin call closer. Maybe I am missing something in my understanding...
Well, it is blank because I have censored nearly everything, except:

- the domain, to prove I am logged into my myfxbook account.
- the trading account beeing listed under my accounts showing the name.

AFAIK only systems you own can be added here. But yeah, this brings the discussion too far away from topic. If you still think I am showing something I am not owning, ok. TE's may present stuff you are pointing out, but they foremost show details of the trading logic, matter of fact, which I am not releasing. It was a try sponsored by goodwill.. I will leave it here.

After dozens of posts filled with insults in this thread based ONLY on somebodies horizon of their own experience I simply give up supporting the discussion by facts.

Core message is still valid: the restrictions are a disaster. People who loose will not turn to profit simply by using lower leverages. But people generating profits like me are forced to move their capital out of the EU. In the end, it is ok for me, as there are good non-EU alternatives left out there. But it cuts the freedom of their citizens, especially as comparable derivates like warrants or other risky bets like casinos and sports are not touched at all. Selective hypocrisy.
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