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the way the big players trade?

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  • Post# 1
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  • First Post: Apr 29, 2008 10:10am
  • resol
    Joined Apr 2008 | 23 Posts | Status: Member
I met many interesting strategies over the internet. And many of them are based on the combination of technical indicators macd, stoch, rsi and etc. These strategies advice to enter the market when several indicators show signals at the same time. many backtests were made and they show that these strategies could be profitable in the past. I thought about these strategies, but I dare to suppose that not many of the big players, such as banks follow them. I suppose that people from banks do not sit infront of the screen watching when stochastic will cross, and macd and some other indicators will show an entry. When they trade huge volumes, i suppose, they can't afford to get the loss which a mini account trader can afford. i suppose their strategy is different form that based on indicators (this is my view about big players and I can be wrong.)
I would like to hear in this post opinions from professional traders who traded for the big players (traders at banks and so on) if there are any here. or from people who know/heard about how do big players trade. what their strategies are based on? can anybdy give an example of the big player's way of trading? every such information will be valuable.
  • Post# 2
  • Quote
  • Apr 29, 2008 10:16am
  • emda
    Joined Apr 2007 | 2,535 Posts | Status: RCMM (Risk Analysis Money Manager)
mostly... they use a big building full of computers calculating and scalping automatically the ticks like hell.

the traders are programmers now.
  • Post# 3
  • Quote
  • Apr 29, 2008 10:20am
  • tonyo524
    Joined Feb 2008 | 2,038 Posts | Status: Member
Quoting resol
I met many interesting strategies over the internet. And many of them are based on the combination of technical indicators macd, stoch, rsi and etc. These strategies advice to enter the market when several indicators show signals at the same time. many backtests were made and they show that these strategies could be profitable in the past. I thought about these strategies, but I dare to suppose that not many of the big players, such as banks follow them. I suppose that people from banks do not sit infront of the screen watching when stochastic will cross, and macd and some other indicators will show an entry. When they trade huge volumes, i suppose, they can't afford to get the loss which a mini account trader can afford. i suppose their strategy is different form that based on indicators (this is my view about big players and I can be wrong.)
I would like to hear in this post opinions from professional traders who traded for the big players (traders at banks and so on) if there are any here. or from people who know/heard about how do big players trade. what their strategies are based on? can anybdy give an example of the big player's way of trading? every such information will be valuable.

wow, it's funny that you would start this topic now. I was just telling my wife how a lot of traders are relying soley on technical analysis, and not considering what the big players use. Volume spread analysis, and fib support and resistance.
All that is left in FF is just plain garbage. "Cloggie"
  • Post# 4
  • Quote
  • Apr 29, 2008 10:23am
  • resol
    Joined Apr 2008 | 23 Posts | Status: Member
Quoting emda
mostly... they use a big building full of computers calculating and scalping automatically the ticks like hell.

the traders are programmers now.
thank you, emda, it is interesting information.
hope somebody else will share his information on the topic
  • Post# 5
  • Quote
  • Apr 29, 2008 10:26am
  • Pinkpanter
    Infractions Overload | 41 Posts | Joined Feb 2007
You think they gonna share here .I think they dont even wanna sell that what they are usingfor trading.
{Promotion Removed}
  • Post# 6
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  • Apr 29, 2008 10:26am
  • Ceco-Ku4ev
    Joined Dec 2007 | 41 Posts | Status: Member
Big traders do exactly the opposite the FF members do.
  • Post# 7
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  • Apr 29, 2008 10:26am
  • tonyo524
    Joined Feb 2008 | 2,038 Posts | Status: Member
Quoting Pinkpanter
You think they gonna share here .I think they dont even wanna sell that what they are usingfor trading.
lol
All that is left in FF is just plain garbage. "Cloggie"
  • Post# 8
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  • Apr 29, 2008 10:30am
  • emda
    Joined Apr 2007 | 2,535 Posts | Status: RCMM (Risk Analysis Money Manager)
they have to sell or buy in small pieces... creating trends... they can't trade a single order to sell billions... because the order would be huge and the intention seen by the other big players. The war is to fool everybody else... but.. since all use computers now.. it is very difficult to fool the other big players...

But then they had a great idea... What if we open the market also to small individuals? We could get all their money very easily !!!!

And here we are...
lol
  • Post# 9
  • Quote
  • Apr 29, 2008 10:34am
  • tonyo524
    Joined Feb 2008 | 2,038 Posts | Status: Member
Have any of you ever thought to consider that your broker may be one of the big players? IBFX has a lot of volume going through their computers on a weekly basis.
All that is left in FF is just plain garbage. "Cloggie"
  • Post# 10
  • Quote
  • Apr 29, 2008 10:36am
  • resol
    Joined Apr 2008 | 23 Posts | Status: Member
Quoting Pinkpanter
You think they gonna share here .I think they dont even wanna sell that what they are usingfor trading.
perhaps they won't. but there's a saying "what know two, will know everybody". perhaps somebody heard somthing...
  • Post# 11
  • Quote
  • Apr 29, 2008 10:52am | Edited at 10:53am – typo - it's late
  • itechdev
    Joined Feb 2008 | 94 Posts | Status: mastering the system
I have a good mate who works in a bank (ANZ) as a fx trader here in Australia. He swears that they mostly use support/resistance and fib as tonyo524 said.

I've known him since primary school and believe what he says. Rich bugger too. Lives on the canals in Noosa QLD (5+ mill properties if you don't know the area - Mr Branson Virgin Blue lives nearby).
  • Post# 12
  • Quote
  • Apr 29, 2008 11:10am
  • resol
    Joined Apr 2008 | 23 Posts | Status: Member
Quoting itechdev
I have a good mate who works in a bank (ANZ) as a fx trader here in Australia. He swears that they mostly use support/resistance and fib as tonyo524 said.

I've known him since primary school and believe what he says. Rich bugger too. Lives on the canals in Noosa QLD (5+ mill properties if you don't know the area - Mr Branson Virgin Blue lives nearby).
thanks for reply, itechdev.
btw i think even if "they" share their way of trading it will take a lot of time and efforts to repeat it. every strategy is useless unless you know it's picularities. but it can show the direction we should search.
  • Post# 13
  • Quote
  • Apr 29, 2008 11:11am
  • tonyo524
    Joined Feb 2008 | 2,038 Posts | Status: Member
Info is supposed to be a secret, like magicians. FF is sponsored by brokers, and brokers are some of the big players. Hence, this topic being moved to oblivion lol.
All that is left in FF is just plain garbage. "Cloggie"
  • Post# 14
  • Quote
  • Apr 29, 2008 11:15am
  • resol
    Joined Apr 2008 | 23 Posts | Status: Member
Quoting tonyo524
Info is supposed to be a secret, like magicians. FF is sponsored by brokers, and brokers are some of the big players. Hence, this topic being moved to oblivion lol.
lol, it might have been worse, it's only in another forum but not deleted.
  • Post# 15
  • Quote
  • Apr 29, 2008 11:47am
  • tonyo524
    Joined Feb 2008 | 2,038 Posts | Status: Member
Quoting resol
lol, it might have been worse, it's only in another forum but not deleted.
seriously though, here is a good read.

Multiple Time Frame Analysis
In my years as a trading educator I have found that most losing traders have a critical glaring weakness in their approach to analyzing a market. The majority of their focus is placed on mathematical technical analysis tools such as moving average convergence divergence (MACD), the relative strength index (RSI) and/or stochastic studies (among many others). All of these types of tools are derivatives of price movement and are lagging indicators. To make matters worse, many of these traders attempt to use these tools in isolation and they completely lose focus on reality; indicators don’t move price, price movement moves indicators! Then the nail in the coffin occurs when the trader uses this approach on only one or two time frames (i.e. a 1- and 3-minute chart or a 5- and 15- minute chart).

The problem with this approach is the trader is not focused on why the price is moving in the first place. Price moves occur because there is an imbalance of supply/demand in the marketplace and this imbalance is created from the activity of professional traders. These professionals are very cagey when it comes to disguising their true intentions and hiding their positions from the uninformed retail trader. The average retail trader doesn’t understand how to read a chart in order to determine the underlying strength or weakness in the market. Even for a trained VSA expert, it is nearly impossible to accurately forecast the near-term direction of a market by analyzing a single time frame; there just isn’t enough corroborating evidence if we only look at one or two time frames. Think of each singular time frame as a musical note, when we combine multiple time frame’s together we go from the market blaring out one note noises, to the market singing us a melody and revealing the message that is so often hidden to the trader who can’t read a chart; that message is where the professional traders are positioned. Before we move to our chart examples we must understand the following rules of multiple time frame analysis:
All that is left in FF is just plain garbage. "Cloggie"
  • Post# 16
  • Quote
  • Apr 29, 2008 12:02pm
  • itechdev
    Joined Feb 2008 | 94 Posts | Status: mastering the system
Quoting tonyo524
seriously though, here is a good read.

Multiple Time Frame Analysis
In my years as a trading educator I have found that most losing traders have a critical glaring weakness in their approach to analyzing a market. The majority of their focus is placed on mathematical technical analysis tools such as moving average convergence divergence (MACD), the relative strength index (RSI) and/or stochastic studies (among many others). All of these types of tools are derivatives of price movement and are lagging indicators. To make matters worse, many of these traders attempt to use these tools in isolation and they completely lose focus on reality; indicators don’t move price, price movement moves indicators! Then the nail in the coffin occurs when the trader uses this approach on only one or two time frames (i.e. a 1- and 3-minute chart or a 5- and 15- minute chart).

The problem with this approach is the trader is not focused on why the price is moving in the first place. Price moves occur because there is an imbalance of supply/demand in the marketplace and this imbalance is created from the activity of professional traders. These professionals are very cagey when it comes to disguising their true intentions and hiding their positions from the uninformed retail trader. The average retail trader doesn’t understand how to read a chart in order to determine the underlying strength or weakness in the market. Even for a trained VSA expert, it is nearly impossible to accurately forecast the near-term direction of a market by analyzing a single time frame; there just isn’t enough corroborating evidence if we only look at one or two time frames. Think of each singular time frame as a musical note, when we combine multiple time frame’s together we go from the market blaring out one note noises, to the market singing us a melody and revealing the message that is so often hidden to the trader who can’t read a chart; that message is where the professional traders are positioned. Before we move to our chart examples we must understand the following rules of multiple time frame analysis:
Great post tonyo524

I've found my most successful trades have been from analysing 5-6 time frames, looking for that melody

"Think of each singular time frame as a musical note, when we combine multiple time frame’s together we go from the market blaring out one note noises, to the market singing us a melody and revealing the message"

Priceless
  • Post# 17
  • Quote
  • Apr 29, 2008 12:40pm
  • good
    Joined Jan 2008 | 301 Posts | Status: Member
Quoting tonyo524
seriously though, here is a good read.

Multiple Time Frame Analysis
In my years as a trading educator I have found that most losing traders have a critical glaring weakness in their approach to analyzing a market. The majority of their focus is placed on mathematical technical analysis tools such as moving average convergence divergence (MACD), the relative strength index (RSI) and/or stochastic studies (among many others). All of these types of tools are derivatives of price movement and are lagging indicators. To make matters worse, many of these traders attempt to use these tools in isolation and they completely lose focus on reality; indicators don’t move price, price movement moves indicators! Then the nail in the coffin occurs when the trader uses this approach on only one or two time frames (i.e. a 1- and 3-minute chart or a 5- and 15- minute chart).

The problem with this approach is the trader is not focused on why the price is moving in the first place. Price moves occur because there is an imbalance of supply/demand in the marketplace and this imbalance is created from the activity of professional traders. These professionals are very cagey when it comes to disguising their true intentions and hiding their positions from the uninformed retail trader. The average retail trader doesn’t understand how to read a chart in order to determine the underlying strength or weakness in the market. Even for a trained VSA expert, it is nearly impossible to accurately forecast the near-term direction of a market by analyzing a single time frame; there just isn’t enough corroborating evidence if we only look at one or two time frames. Think of each singular time frame as a musical note, when we combine multiple time frame’s together we go from the market blaring out one note noises, to the market singing us a melody and revealing the message that is so often hidden to the trader who can’t read a chart; that message is where the professional traders are positioned. Before we move to our chart examples we must understand the following rules of multiple time frame analysis:
Very well said. So many times us retail traders get too preoccupied with indicators and neglect the real thing, the price.
  • Post# 18
  • Quote
  • Nov 17, 2010 2:17am
  • Exo18v
    Joined Nov 2010 | 4 Posts | Status: Member
I have been trading about 8 months. from the past 8 months i do realise that getting better at indicator doesn't have success all the time. Therefore for now, i am really looking and hoping to learn how the big players trade, i heard alot they are only using price action. Could someone direct me where i can have proper lesson on these?
  • Post# 19
  • Quote
  • Nov 18, 2010 7:42pm
  • zonrokoy
    Joined Oct 2010 | 33 Posts | Status: Member
James16 thread = price action 101. I learned a lot of things there.
  • Post# 20
  • Quote
  • Nov 19, 2010 2:28am
  • Exo18v
    Joined Nov 2010 | 4 Posts | Status: Member
Hi could you directly me the price action 101? Thanks really want to learn it properly. Thinking EA don't seem to work. If it work then banks don't need to hire people to watch the computer in execution. So regretful that I pay so much on the course for EA
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