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The 5 Steps to becoming a trader

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  • Opened Oct 21, 2005 | Never Closes | 829 Votes
  • Poll Results
What step are you on?
Forex? Not with my wife you don't! 10 Votes 1.21%
Step 1 61 Votes 7.36%
Step 2 217 Votes 26.18%
Step 3 290 Votes 34.98%
Step 4 146 Votes 17.61%
Step 5 49 Votes 5.91%
I invented forex :-) 56 Votes 6.76%
  • Post# 1
  • Quote
  • First Post: Oct 21, 2005 5:23pm | Edited Oct 23, 2005 8:22pm – Left off name of author.
  • diallist
    Joined Sep 2004 | 1,116 Posts | Status: James16 Group - Admin/Developer
The 5 Steps to becoming a trader

Step One: Unconscious Incompetence.

This is the first step you take when starting to look into trading. you know that its a good way of making money because you've heard so many things about it and heard of so many millionaires. Unfortunately, just like when you first desire to drive a car you think it will be easy - after all, how hard can it be? Price either moves up or down - what's the big secret to that then - lets get cracking!

Unfortunately, just as when you first take your place in front of a steering wheel you find very quickly that you haven't got the first clue about what you're trying to do. You take lots of trades and lots of risks. When you enter a trade it turns against you so you reverse and it turns again .. and again, and again.


You may have initial success, and thats even worse - cos it tells your brain that this really is simple and you start to risk more money.


You try to turn around your losses by doubling up every time you trade. Sometimes you'll get away with it but more often than not you will come away scathed and bruised You are totally oblivious to your incompetence at trading.

This step can last for a week or two of trading but the market is usually swift and you move onth the next stage.

Step Two - Conscious Incompetence

Step two is where you realise that there is more work involved in trading and that you might actually have to work a few things out. You consciously realise that you are an incompetent trader - you don't have the skills or the insight to turn a regular profit.

You now set about buying systems and e-books galore, read websites based everywhere from USA to the Ukraine. and begin your search for the holy grail. During this time you will be a system nomad - you will flick from method to method day by day and week by week never sticking with one long enough to actually see if it does work. Every time you come upon a new indicator you'll be ecstatic that this is the one that will make all the difference.

You will test out automated systems on Metatrader, you'll play with moving averages, Fibonacci lines, support & resistance, Pivots, Fractals, Divergence, DMI, ADX, and a hundred other things all in the vein hope that your 'magic system' starts today. You'll be a top and bottom picker, trying to find the exact point of reversal with your indicators and you'll find yourself chasing losing trades and even adding to them because you are so sure you are right.

You'll go into the live chat room and see other traders making pips and you want to know why it's not you - you'll ask a million questions, some of which are so dumb that looking back you feel a bit silly. You'll then reach the point where you think all the ones who are calling pips after pips are liars - they cant be making that amount because you've studied and you don't make that, you know as much as they do and they must be lying. But they're in there day after day and their account just grows whilst yours falls.

You will be like a teenager - the traders that make money will freely give you advice but you're stubborn and think that you know best - you take no notice and overtrade your account even though everyone says you are mad to - but you know better. You'll consider following the calls that others make but even then it wont work so you try paying for signals from someone else - they don't work for you either.


You might even approach a 'guru' like Rob Booker or someone on a chat board who promises to make you into a trader(usually for a fee of course). Whether the guru is good or not you wont win because there is no replacement for screen time and you still think you know best.


This step can last ages and ages - in fact in reality talking with other traders as well as personal experience confirms that it can easily last well over a year and more nearer 3 years. This is also the step when you are most likely to give up through sheer frustration.

Around 60% of new traders die out in the first 3 months - they give up and this is good - think about it - if trading was easy we would all be millionaires. another 20% keep going for a year and then in desperation take risks guaranteed to blow their account which of course it does.


What may suprise you is that of the remaining 20% all of them will last around 3 years - and they will think they are safe in the water - but even at 3 years only a further 5-10% will continue and go on to actually make money consistently.


By the way - they are real figures, not just some ive picked out of my head - so when you get to 3 years in the game dont think its plain sailing from there.


Iv had many people argue with me about these timescales - funny enough none of them have been trading for more that 3 years - if you think you know better then ask on a board for someone who's been trading 5 years and ask them how long it takes to become fully 100% proficient. Sure i guess there will be exceptions to the rle - but i havent met any yet.


Eventually you do begin to come out of this phase. You've probably committed more time and money than you ever thought you would, lost 2 or 3 loaded accounts and all but given up maybe 3 or 4 times but now its in your blood

One day - im a split second moment you will enter stage 3.

Step 3 - The Eureka Moment

Towards the end of stage two you begin to realise that it's not the system that is making the difference. You realise that its actually possible to make money with a simple moving average and nothing else IF you can get your head and money management right You start to read books on the psychology of trading and identify with the characters portrayed in those books and finally comes the eureka moment.

The eureka moment causes a new connection to be made in your brain. You suddenly realise that neither you, nor anyone else can accurately predict what the market will do in the next ten seconds, never mind the next 20 mins.


Because of this revelation you stop taking any notice of what anyone thinks - what this news item will do, and what that event will do to the markets. You become an individual with your own method of trading


You start to work just one system that you mould to your own way of trading, you're starting to get happy and you define your risk threshold.

You start to take every trade that your 'edge' shows has a good probability of winning with. When the trade turns bad you don't get angry or even because you know in your head that as you couldn't possibly predict it it isn't your fault - as soon as you realise that the trade is bad you close it . The next trade or the one after it or the one after that will have higher odds of success because you know your system works.


You stop looking at trading results from a trade-to-trade perspective and start to look at weekly figures knowing that one bad trade does not a poor system make.


You have realised in an instant that the trading game is about one thing - consistency of your 'edge' and your discipline to take all the trades no matter what as you know the probabilities stack in your favour.

You learn about proper money management and leverage - risk of account etc etc - and this time it actually soaks in and you think back to those who advised the same thing a year ago with a smile. You weren't ready then, but you are now. The eureka moment came the moment that you truly accepted that you cannot predict the market.

Step 4 - Conscious Competence

You are making trades whenever your system tells you to. You take losses just as easily as you take wins You now let your winners run to their conclusion fully accepting the risk and knowing that your system makes more money than it looses and when you're on a loser you close it swiftly with little pain to your account

You are now at a point where you break even most of the time - day in day out, you will have weeks where you make 100 pips and weeks where you lose 100 pips - generally you are breaking even and not losing money. You are now conscious of the fact that you are making calls that are generally good and you are getting respect from other traders as you chat the day away. You still have to work at it and think about your trades but as this continues you begin to make more money than you lose consistently.

You'll start the day on a 20 pip win, take a 35 pip loss and have no feelings that you've given those pips back because you know that it will come back again. You will now begin to make consistent pips week in and week out 25 pips one week, 50 the next and so on.

This lasts about 6 months

Step Five - Unconscious Competence

Now we’re cooking - just like driving a car, every day you get in your seat and trade - you do everything now on an unconscious level. You are running on autopilot. You start to pick the really big trades and getting 200 pips in a day doesnt make you any more excited that getting 1 pips.


You see the newbies in the forum shouting 'go dollar go' as if they are urging on a horse to win in the grand national and you see yourself - but many years ago now.

This is trading utopia - you have mastered your emotions and you are now a trader with a rapidly growing account.

You're a star in the trading chat room and people listen to what you say. You recognise yourself in their questions from about two years ago. You pass on your advice but you know most of it is futile because they're teenagers - some of them will get to where you are - some will do it fast and others will be slower - literally dozens and dozens will never get past stage two, but a few will.

Trading is no longer exciting - in fact it's probably boring you to bits - like everything in life when you get good at it or do it for your job - it gets boring - you're doing your job and that's that.


Finally you grow out of the chat rooms and find a few choice people who you converse with about the markets without being influenced at all.


All the time you are honing your methods to extract the maximum profit from the market without increasing risk. Your method of trading doesnt change - it just gets better - you now have what women call 'intuition'

You can now say with your head held high "I'm a currency trader" but to be honest you dont even bother telling anyone - it's a job like any other.


I hope youve enjoyed reading this journey into a traders mind and that hopefully youve identified with some points in here.


Remember that only 5% will actually make it - but the reason for that isnt ability, its staying power and the ability to change your perceptions and paradigms as new information comes available.


The losers are those who wanted to 'get rich quick' but approached the market and within 6 months put on a pair of blinkers so they couldnt see the obvious - a kind of "this is the way i see it and thats that" scenario - refusing to assimilate new information that changes that perception.


Im happy to tell you that the reason i started trading was because of the 'get rich quick' mindset. Just that now i see it as 'get rich slow'

If youre thinking about giving up i have one piece of advice for you ....

Ask yourself the question "how many years would you go to college if you knew for a fact that there was a million dollars a year job at the end of it?

Take care and good trading to you all.

I left of the name of the author of this piece by mistake. If anyone knows the name of the true author, please let me know and I'll add it here. Thanks and sorry for the confusion.

Dial
  • Post# 2
  • Quote
  • Oct 21, 2005 6:55pm | Edited at 7:18pm
  • jarroo
    Joined Sep 2005 | 13,493 Posts | Status: J16 Senior Member cczar
Good Stuff Dial.
I would like to think I'm at stage 2.5 getting close to stage 3. Your insight, along with Merlin, James16, and others has sped up the learning curve for me. I know that I cant push the learning curve but just absorb all that I can and have fun doing it. I do plan on getting to Stage 5. Because there is one thing that I love about trading, the people here at Forex Factory, testing, analyzing, etc, is that IT'S FUN. Sure its frustrating and nerve-racking at times but hey that's part of the learning curve, its suppose to be like that. Im just glad I found all of you here at FF. It makes this fun business more enjoyable.

God Bless,

Jim
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • Post# 3
  • Quote
  • Oct 21, 2005 7:25pm
  • dangerman
    Joined Sep 2005 | 115 Posts | Status: Member
Just so everyone knows I voted that I was on step 1. With the help of everyone here, and myself, I hope to progress to step 4.

Quote
Trading is no longer exciting - in fact it's probably boring you to bits - like everything in life when you get good at it or do it for your job - it gets boring - you're doing your job and that's that.
I don't wan't to progress to step 5, if that's what it's like. But I doubt it is like that because trading is never boring.

Jimmy
  • Post# 4
  • Quote
  • Oct 21, 2005 8:15pm
  • quinn
    Joined May 2004 | 59 Posts | Status: Member
Not only do you keep us all smiling with your great attitude and jokes, you also have the insight, into this whole trading deal, down pat.

Good job my friend, you and I have been travelling the same road and I think we will "get there " before long.

Quinn
I started out with nothing, and I've got most of it left!
  • Post# 5
  • Quote
  • Oct 23, 2005 8:22am
  • abedewi
    Joined Sep 2005 | 40 Posts | Status: Passionate About Forex
It's interesting to know that someone is talking about my forex personality growth pattern...............hahahahhah
Diallist, you're just talking about me here !! thx for your guide anyway as I anticipated my future moves. Need to point that I m currently at stage 3.........seems nice for me !!
  • Post# 6
  • Quote
  • Oct 23, 2005 11:00am
  • howtotradeforex
    Joined Mar 2004 | 86 Posts | Status: Member
I'm between two and three. I voted three because that is where I really need to be. Time to slow down, stop panic trading, and make trades not bets. Daillist, you have opened my eyes.
Because helping each other is a good thing. ;)
  • Post# 7
  • Quote
  • Oct 23, 2005 8:20pm
  • diallist
    Joined Sep 2004 | 1,116 Posts | Status: James16 Group - Admin/Developer
I messed up. I am not the author of the content of the first post of this thread. I thought when I snagged it from another website that I had been careful to include the author's name at the bottom. Apparently I did not. But now I can't locate where I found it. Someone suggested that the author may be the owner of cnotta.com, but I found it elsewhere. At any rate I wanted to make clear I am not the authour. I just thought it worth sharing. My apologies.

Dial
  • Post# 8
  • Quote
  • Oct 23, 2005 8:33pm | Edited at 8:52pm
  • fijitrader
    Joined Mar 2004 | 427 Posts | Status: Valued Member
Quoting diallist
I messed up. I am not the author of the content of the first post of this thread. I thought when I snagged it from another website that I had been careful to include the author's name at the bottom. Apparently I did not. But now I can't locate where I found it. Someone suggested that the author may be the owner of cnotta.com, but I found it elsewhere. At any rate I wanted to make clear I am not the authour. I just thought it worth sharing. My apologies.

Dial
The author is known as "soultrader" on MT. Don't know his real name.
ft
  • Post# 9
  • Quote
  • Oct 23, 2005 9:05pm
  • howtotradeforex
    Joined Mar 2004 | 86 Posts | Status: Member
Quoting diallist
I messed up. I am not the author of the content of the first post of this thread. I thought when I snagged it from another website that I had been careful to include the author's name at the bottom. Apparently I did not. But now I can't locate where I found it. Someone suggested that the author may be the owner of cnotta.com, but I found it elsewhere. At any rate I wanted to make clear I am not the authour. I just thought it worth sharing. My apologies.

Dial
Still, you presented it to us and for that we are grateful.
Because helping each other is a good thing. ;)
  • Post# 10
  • Quote
  • Oct 23, 2005 10:40pm | Edited at 11:08pm
  • dangerman
    Joined Sep 2005 | 115 Posts | Status: Member
http://www.zen18752.zen.co.uk/html/forex_trading.html

This seems to be someone's personal website, where just one one of their many interests is forex trading.

Quote
My philosophy is one of Trader help Trader. Much of what I have learned is by others giving their time and knowledge free of charge. If there is any way whatsoever that you think I can help you, please contact me. However, please do remember :
DAY TRADING involves high risks and

YOU CAN LOSE a lot of money.

Reading that last paragraph on the page would lead me to believe that they would not mind the passage you posted being reproduced, if in fact you got if from there originally?

And they probably got it from somewhere else, maybe the same place you did.

At any rate, it is a great post, and when someome posts it again 6 or 9 months or a year from now it will still be a great post because no matter what level you are at in your trading career, it will make you stop, take a step back and look at yourself and where you want to be both personally and professionaly. And we all need this from time to time.

Thanks Dial
Jimmy
  • Post# 11
  • Quote
  • Jan 7, 2006 9:18pm
  • HeavyJ
    Joined Oct 2005 | 254 Posts | Status: Member
Hope you all don't mind. Thought I'd bring this puppy back to the top!



Thanx
HJ
HeavyJ -"Posterboy for Spellchecker!" "Will work for pips!"
  • Post# 12
  • Quote
  • Jan 9, 2006 3:45pm
  • MrWhipple
    Joined Dec 2005 | 378 Posts | Status: Self UNemployed Pipster
Hi My name is MrWhipple and I am a Forexaholic I am at step 4 and I have been pip free for 4 days now. I am trembling now trying not to click on the icon that fires up my trading platform. ($l#%&* What was that! It just fired up all by itself. What! the Euro is going up! gota get in, gota get in,.....)
Hi My name is MrWhipple and I am at step 1. I have been pip free for 5min.....
Nolite dormiens pungere ursum. -- Latan Proverb.
  • Post# 13
  • Quote
  • Jan 9, 2006 7:00pm
  • eastmaels
    Joined Jul 2005 | 666 Posts | Status: J16G Expectancy Seeker
Quoting MrWhipple
Hi My name is MrWhipple and I am a Forexaholic I am at step 4 and I have been pip free for 4 days now. I am trembling now trying not to click on the icon that fires up my trading platform. ($l#%&* What was that! It just fired up all by itself. What! the Euro is going up! gota get in, gota get in,.....)
Hi My name is MrWhipple and I am at step 1. I have been pip free for 5min.....
LOL.. Nice one MW...
  • Post# 14
  • Quote
  • May 16, 2006 9:22pm
  • tinaroel
    Joined Mar 2006 | 34 Posts | Status: Member
very helpful article diallist

thanks for sharing
Use a system that works for YOU :thumbsup:
  • Post# 15
  • Quote
  • May 17, 2006 5:32am
  • vladv
    Joined Mar 2006 | 177 Posts | Status: Mr.
This article is very usefull for some newbies around here......and personally I just love forex!!
  • Post# 16
  • Quote
  • May 18, 2006 4:28am
  • LapisAnguli
    Joined May 2006 | 24 Posts | Status: Member
Well, that was interesting!!

Partly a bit depressing (viewing the top of a mountain from the valley below can be intimidating), but also encouraging to show that those who commit themselves fully, and are willing to go through the proces get there.

I'm definately a "level 2".

And it is true that intial succes in level one prolongs things. Therefore, I really wish to confirm what everybody says, first demo till you drop, but then, when you are ready, start with a very small account. Not so rediculously small that it won't hurt you when you lose it, but only so small that it stings like a bee instead of dropping like a hammer on you.

Me, I started off with a demo, and it did great after learning the basics. Then I moved to live with what for me was a whole lot of money! And I was in a group where people were making calls and they were actually making disgusting ammounts of money too.

So, in reality the demise went slowly. some days a huge drop with massive losses, and then X days with small gains. This prolonged the moment where I really started to realise I was imcompetent.

Now, at the current level, I am trying out strategies, looking at indicators etc, but I also got past the point of blindly following advise, or using premade strategies without trying to know it's inner workings or logic.

Might be silly of me, because some of those things really do provide gains, but I know I must have understanding before I use something. So, no more packs and packs of books on the Holy Grail, no more "Hey if that guru says it will go that way, I'll take it!". No, I even feel joy into NOT taking a call or suggestion from a person or a strategy I don't yet understand completely.. Especially if it was a good call.. Makes me feel all Zen-like inside :

Became a subscriber now of the james16 group/PF, and I hope I will find the understanding I seek in there. Not only technical stuff, but the mindset. I mean, read for example the james16 chart thread. What hit me the MOST in that thread, (and was the main reason for joining) was the peace and calmness of James. Thinking about mistakes in life, I admit that I made most of them while having an emotional strong feeling. Angry, Mad, Frustrated, Greed, Longing, etc.. So that must go. no more emotion while trading, unless you label "calm, inner peace and confidence" an emotion. Why be angry at a river because it flows in this or that direction?

So, basically, I hope the "level 3" moment is not too far away, but if necessary I am willing to wait ages for it. I think I know the things of level 3, the detachment etc, but I don't feel them inside yet. Ah well, festina lente

Thanks Dial for the insight.
L.A.
  • Post# 17
  • Quote
  • Aug 8, 2006 11:24am
  • nevermore
    Joined Jul 2006 | 8 Posts | Status: Member
I think the author`s name is Jared F. Martinez of markettraders.com also the author of "The 10 Keys to Succesful Trading" dunno 4 sure

step 2 for me
Best wishes ..
  • Post# 18
  • Quote
  • Aug 28, 2006 7:50am
  • mudskipper
    Joined Mar 2006 | 109 Posts | Status: fibo in utero
I can relate with almost everything on that page, and have an example for almost every scenario, except 95% of stage 4, and all of stage 5. But guess what?.....

I AIN'T giving up.
  • Post# 19
  • Quote
  • Oct 23, 2006 5:18am
  • ademac
    Joined May 2006 | 206 Posts | Status: New Market Wizard in Training
Thought this should be brought back to the foreground of discussion.

Enjoy
Ademac
  • Post# 20
  • Quote
  • Oct 23, 2006 8:45am
  • Americantek
    Joined Oct 2006 | 38 Posts | Status: I took your pips
Yes! I loved this poll, glad to see it back again.
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