3-9% a day with CHOROS?

Hi,

I have recently seen a trading system here. The system poster claims that he makes 3-9% almost every day with the system. The system is called CHOROS http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=236210. It is evolved from another binned system called Dance, http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=224697.
I have briefly studied the method, and wonder how many can be as successful as the claim made by CHOROS poster.

Please vote.

kk007

Hi KK007,

I have read the 72 pages of the original thread the Dance, the over 130 pages (at this moment) of the Choros thread, I also read twice (and am reading again) the great manual of the Dance System written by Clay (and I miss his posts and great analysis, a pity I arrived "too late") and I am testing in Demo the Dance / Choros System since a couple of months.

I anyway think to may not yet say to have "seriously" studied it, because what I have done is just to get nearer to the concept.
The "Study" may only be the result of hundreds of hours on the simulator and on live account (real or demo).

I believe your question to be positively asked and not for making a joke of that system, so I voted with pleasure, but I do not well understand how anybody who has not at least done the same I did could give any vote, insted of an "assumed" hipotethical Idea of it.

Moreover I think you misunderstood the 3 to 9% daily, I would invite you (but I suppose you certainly did) to read first all both threads.
There are several answers to your question there.

That said I think that more than one Forex Trading System could give such results.

Important is to practice and follow your "own" System and learn from it, until you feel it as your own skin.

Once I read somewhere that a Black Belt is a White Belt who never gave up to stand up once again....

And I think there is a lot of Truth in that sentence.

Welcome in that thread and I would appreciate to see your charts and analysis there too...

Hi Whenever,

Thanks for your detailed reply. About 3-9%, it is about daily account increment. I can't find any double meaning there. Please clarify if you can.

cheers,

kk007

In this post kostas1 explains that he either makes 3% profit per day or loses 3% per day, and that 3% of the account is equal 40 pips.
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=1080

So it's all about the money management... There are a lot of systems that can bring more than 40 pips per day, but kostas1 uses a pretty big lot size and that allows him to make 3% per day out of just 40 pips.

Yes, he said he either makes 3% per day or loses 3% a day. But he also said that he makes 3-9% almost every day. So, in conclusion, he rarely has a lossing day of 3%.

It sounds from your post that it is not surprising to you because it is "just" 40 pips.

Hi Whenever,

I really don't understand why you spent that huge amount of time to study so many pages. According to CHOROS's creator's experience, he understood and was able to operate the DANCE system within 1 single day and able to achieve 3-9% a day. What it took was only the original DANCE manual.

Here is the timeline:

7 Mar 2010:
He was still looking for mentor: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=224599

8 Mar 2010:
DANCE system appeared, he got hold of a copy of the manual (1st post there). http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=224697

From 8 Mar 2010 onwards, he achieves 3-9% a day.

I got to know Kostas a little better than most people on here because we traded together in a chat room for a good while.

There is cynicism every page you click on, on FF and to a large extent, with good reason. Kostas, as much as i've been able to tell, is a very straightforward fella. Happy to be honest about his struggles and failures, happy to be upfront about the fact that he's reached an admirable level of consistency. I would be comfortable to bet 20 pips that he's not embelished his record in any way!

There's a very big but here. Kostas went through an extended period of failure and as any successful trader knows, it's through this that you learn all the important lessons that make you able to find a winning approach. He was a gnat's hairs width away from never clicking buy or sell ever again but managed to finally find something that he could make work using moving averages as dynamic S and R. Look around the forum, look at EO Hater's thread, Ken's thread and there are others. It isn't a new concept. The word of caution here is that just because he may be doing it, it's unlkikely that you will. At least, not staight off the bat anyhow.

Kostas always said that he will reduce his position size as time moves on and limit his exposure. 3% - 9% a day most days is almost certainly achievable if you are very disciplined but trade with a level of risk that will let you see them returns. But, I think as we all know, you won't do it forever and there will reach a stage where you are happy to make .5% growth a day and keep exposure down.

Long may his winning run continue!

Hi Trotty,

Thanks for your reply. May I ask you a technical question? S/R and TL are marked based on discretionary visual judgement, Fibo has standard value, (50, 38.2, etc.), while MA need to put in a parameter (i.e. 300 EMA, 29 SMA, etc), such a parameter seems arbitrary to me. What is the logic behind finding the MA parameters?

cheers,

kk007

I briefly read the Dance system and it was very clear to me that it takes a very long time till one can use it profitable. I don't know if it provides an edge, I would say not at all because the creator of a system must explain, first of all, the relation between every indicator which he uses and the market. This explanation is missing (or I didn't find). "It works because I find and use them" is hardly a smart argument.
Also hardly improbable that somebody in this world is able to double his account every month therefore I automatically discount anyone who claims it. I'd maybe give a chance to someone who makes it after a deep study of the mechanism of the market and some tools/information which are not available to the average joe.
Short term I multiplied a real account 20 times (yes, it had 5 digits) and after that I managed to lose a big part of it. It was of course a temporary edge during an unusual trendy period.

You're more than welcome.

The science behind the theory is something that I, myself, am also not so sure about. The parameters aren't arbitary necessarily but i've always assumed that they work because they are so well used.

How many times have you found price reverse at a round number? It happens all the time because these are the places that traders often set their take profits. As demand or supply falls away because profits are being taken, the reversal occurs. The same is happening with the moving averages. Enough traders use them and have them on their charts that they create their own "levels". No other explanation can make rational sense.

The 35 is close to a fib level, the 50 is a fib level, the 21 is the centre boll band ma and the 200 is talked about on many systems and stratregies that aren't based on using them and S+R.

Bit of a ramble there but there are better people to shed light on the answer than me. Have a look at EO Hater's thread. It's HUGE and been going for years now, using little more that this concept as it's basis. Something could not have lasted that long with so much obvious success without something being in it.

Failing that, stick the MA's on a chart and look how many times, if there is a good angle, price action rests on the ma and returns from whence it came.

All that said, it's a very discretionary approach and only experience will get you to the sort of place Kostas is at.

Important point: 3-9% was when my account was 400E. Using the Dance I was actually doing more than 3% everyday.

Now my account is well in the 5 digits, so daily profit is very close to 3% (usually from 2.5-3.5%). The reason is money-management as somebody posted above. All I need is 30-40 pips per day and I found one method that can consistently provide these pips.
My trading style is not long-term, I get very anxious when I leave a trade open for more than 2-3hrs, so although I tried, I was never able to get any good results trading long-term. I found that getting in and out the market 3-4 times daily for minutes at a time and grabbing 10-15 pips each time is the way to go for me. Using appropriate lot size these pips represent 3% of the account. If I loose 30-40 pips daily then I stop (very rare since my worst days are break-even). In addition, I started making regular withdrawals to give me some satisfaction and also give me more time to get used to the increased lots.
The most difficult parts for me were the following:
1. As the lot size grows the amount of money that they represent used to scare me. So having an open trade being -5pips representing -80E was not easy to ignore. After much struggle I learned to ignore that and focus on the pips.
2. Sometimes I would find difficult to accept the loss, so I would raise the SL to allow the trade more space. Bad habit, since most times the trade would move more against me... I learned to accept the loss early and move on.

Now my target is to get to 33,000E and trade consistently 30-40 pips with 4-5 lots (trying to capture 1000E daily which will not be 3% daily as the account grows). If I manage this for 5-6 months I would consider myself in the right path to success. I am already following the method succesfully from March and planning to reach 33,000 before Christmas. 5-6 months more will be plenty to convince me that I can do this.
Overall, I take no credit to this method. CHOROS was just a continuation to the Dance thread and the hard work by Clay (who in turn based his method to other succesfull traders). My only contribution was that I learned to take profits earlier (10-15 pips) for the biggest part of my lot rather than waiting a few M15 bars (this allowed me to save many trades that would later reverse).
My only message to the traders is that success is possible, keep focused, disciplined, and don't get dissapointed. I am sure there are many trading methods that can lead you to success, find one that makes sense to you and keep following it untill you know what you are doing. Also be patient, you will need to pay your tuition fees to the market (I spent two yrs loosing and blown 2 accounts before reaching this stage).

Kostas

P.S. I am not going to post in this polling thread anymore, but I would like kk007 to mention the resutls of this poll in the CHOROS thread after a month. Anybody having more questions about the method you can post then in the CHOROS thread (many guys there seem to have a good handle of the method now).

Hi kostas1,

Thanks for your sharing here. No problem, I make a post in your thread to report about the poll result after about one month.

cheers,

kk007

Thanks Trotty,

MA to me is just a way to tell where the trend is (just up or down) and how strong. Trading in relation to the position of a MA and the precision of MA parameter has not been making very good sense to me yet.

I will check out EO's pdf.

cheers,

No problem, your eyes will be opened

EO's method is a typical "easy to learn hard to master" method. Don't think that when you have read the manual you're ready to trade profitable. You can't trade EO's method without a sound understanding of technical analysis.

That's right, it is not surprising to me. As I said before, there are several systems on FF that I tried, and I know that at least three of them can make much more than 40 pips per day, day after day. I mean:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=243045
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=55428
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...=248649&page=2

Congratulation for your confidence in seeing so many opportunities. Are you going to be a billionaire one day?

KK007,

Can I ask what the point of this thread is?

Your questions are based around the strategy itself and thus the honesty of Kostas.

You only really need one question to get the answer I beleive you are actualy looking for:

Is Kostas lying?

My reply would be 'NO' by the way.

I wonder if kostas is the only one that who think 3% a day is possible with the method, and also interested in others perception on this level of success.

There are cases that with the same method some can be highly profitable and some other can never achieve.

The 3% per day isnt the question in my view.

Can someone make 20-40 pips per day consistantly. If the answer to that is a yes, then they can make 3%. If it's a yes, then they can make 20% per day.

As I am sure you know, it's all about risk. So, can Kostas make 30 pips per day...... I beleive he can.

Regards

Lee