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Quoting nanningbob
Of course I have never been able to get a BO system to work that well. I am hoping with 10.0 reads it will increase your chances though. The problem with the BEAGLE team is they have no stats or past performance to view and study, just a lot of hot air. Again, the problem with trend trading is you never know it is going to continue, you dont know when someone will interfere (SNB, BOJ, BOE, etc.) Inside out trading has always driven me nuts while I have had much more success trading outside in. Add a recovery method and it ends up being profitable....
Hello Bob,

If you haven't figured it out yet Bob I for one can trade rings around you and posting my trades on the SL thread is as close as you're going to see my stats. The fact is even if I did produce the facts I'd be called writing fiction. It's a pointless issue and akin to debating stop or no stop. I surely hope you had a stop on today after your fubar. But one must expect mistakes at first.

I have chosen to be nice and show you the way rather then force stats down your throat which proves absolutely zero. Anybody can posts numbers. Besides all beagles don't bite or piss on your furniture. LOL.

Ok I'll forgive you this time. it's a new thing and you probably missed it. I showed you exactly where I entered the trade. This was only one way to enter a trade and the right way depends on a number of different factors. I can enter a trade at any time of the day no matter which direction the PA is heading and make a profit. YOU WILL BE ABLE TO DO THIS AS WELL. You have to walk before you can run my friend. So let's take it one step at a time. Forget the past debates. It was a blast but let's get down to work now shall we and make some pips?

As far as the trend continuing and this being a problem trading is just not correct. I make just as many pips with the PA going down as I make with the PA going up. It just doesn't matter in the very least. I can assure you if you listen and follow my advice you will make lots of pips and that isn't hot air brother Bob.

Johnny
Quoting JohnnyBSmart
Hello Bob,

It looks like you got's it guy. I just dropped by to say hello and wishing you luck. I see my buddy squalou is helping you code my simple target trader system. He's a great coder and you're lucky to have him helping. Although this is under your trend trading system you'll find in time it can do it all.

Breakout, trend, range and hedge all in one little package. At some point in time you'll also find the indicators below the chart are becoming more and more just decorative art work as you will look at them less and less.

This...
Welcome to one of my threads. You system is welcome here because it fits the theme of the thread. You will be better teaching your system than I would be cause I am just learning it. Glad you know Squalou he has been a great help in the past. I know about the EURO breakout but I cant trade at that time because I teach everyday during that time. My hours are the opposite of USA time in China so I get home about the middle of the Euro session. I stop in from time to time during breaks anyway. This should be interesting so we say hello. There is no reason to discuss the SL issue here since I dont CT or Range trade in this thread. If you have read my material I recommend using SL for trend trading. CT a trend trade is not a good thing to do.
Quoting AaronWard
Bob,

I started with a breakout system and while they can make money, they have 4 major flaws.

First, you enter at a "bad price". The price has to move 30 pips (or whatever) before being triggered. And as you say things that go up tend to come back down.

Second, exits are problematic. The three basic strategies are some form adjustable TP/SL, a time based exit or a TP/SL fixed at entry. They all have problems.

Third, there are two patterns that will cause you to lose money: a) the so called bull/bear trap and b) is the switchback which...
Breakout systems are as good as the trader that trades them. Following a thread originator that is a bad trader and not learning to trade yourself is a recipe for pip losses. It's not the breakout but the trader that fails. It's not the thread originator's fault he believes he's got it.

Newbs can be newbs forever and can be divided into two basic groups. The new newbs who admit they don't know a thing about trading and the old newbs that never got past trader school class 101. They won't admit they are clueless and are quick to tell anybody who will listen they are Professional or accomplished traders because they have done their due diligence and have been trading for 5, 10, 15 or 20 years.

It's is entirely up to you to learn or just follow so called traders that are old newbs. It's not easy to learn but being clueless or following the clueless is very expensive.

Johnny
Johnny,

By live trades I mean trades not made with an EA of some sort. It is you placing the trades, not a computer program.

I have been thinking about this particular trade and yes, your price targets that are probably the most important thing.

Directionally challenged... yup, well said.

Breakouts work very well...but the systems that I have experimented with don't work quite so well... yes.

Unquestionably you have a lot to help us with. Hopefully you will keep your Bob bashing to a minimum. Lots of space on the "no SL thread for that. People learn in a variety of environments, but one where your self dignity is under continual assault is not the best.

Hopefully you will also see that I am nobody's "follower". I go where there is something to learn. And I have made it clear multiple times that you know a lot that is worth learning.

I look forward to your next post.
Quoting nanningbob
Welcome to one of my threads. You system is welcome here because it fits the theme of the thread. You will be better teaching your system than I would be cause I am just learning it. Glad you know Squalou he has been a great help in the past. I know about the EURO breakout but I cant trade at that time because I teach everyday during that time. My hours are the opposite of USA time in China so I get home about the middle of the Euro session. I stop in from time to time during breaks anyway. This should be interesting so we say hello. There is no...
Hello Bob,

I've learned things in the past from all types of people so I'm looking forward to your vision of this system. Looking through another person's eyes sometimes gives you great ideas which you'd never think of totally on your own.

My wife and I built our home together from the basement up including the clearing of the trees. I was twenty-three at the time. That was an experience I don't recommend young married couples ever having if they want to stay married. We survived it but not without butting heads at every turn.

It was a learning experience to say the least. We finished it in six months and actually beat some friends who were having theirs built by contractors with their Daddy's money. We both refused to give up and we learned to compromise and understand that we both had strengths and weaknesses. I learned from her that she had her own ideas about how her house and how I was going to build it. Not at all the task I thought it would be but with two heads we built a better house.

Please don't let me interfere with your thinking and fresh ideas. I will assist you when I can and give you ideas to digest a little at a time. You and your followers are use to trading more simpler systems and this will be a giant leap which also creates a multitude of questions.

Your experience sees the potential as well as the ease of trading if learned well. That was all I could have asked for in posting the system. I find the art of teaching to be the most difficult thing to be good at it. I never really know if my message as written is read as I meant it to be read. I'm told I'm too aggressive or too abrasive or sound too arrogant. That's my wife's comments reading some of my posts. LOL. She isn't afraid to slap me along the side of the head when I get out of line.

Ask and I will respond with ideas as you think you need them. A good Engineer and Manager I am but a good teacher I have no claim to fame.

It will be interesting,

Johnny
Quoting JohnnyBSmart
Hello Bob,

I've learned things in the past from all types of people so I'm looking forward to your vision of this system. Looking through another person's eyes sometimes gives you great ideas which you'd never think of totally on your own.

My wife and I built our home together from the basement up including the clearing of the trees. I was twenty-three at the time. That was an experience I don't recommend young married couples ever having if they want to stay married. We survived it but not without butting heads at every turn.

It was a learning...
On of the reasons people like my threads is I will post trades before they are taken so the traders can see what I do good or bad. It leaves me open to criticism but overall people respect that. If you post pics once in a while they say more than all the writing you could do. As you can see from my 10.1 folder I used all pics because explaining those lines would be very difficult but seeing them used on a screen helps people to grasp the basics quickly. 10.0 is an experiment, it was an attempt to have a comprehensive overlook of price action UT, DT, Range, and to develop a trading strategy from that overlook. I really dont know any book or thread that has ever attempted to define all the price action of the market. It may seem an oversimplification to an experienced trader but for a new trader it allows them a place to start. To help prevent a lot of early mistakes in trading. Yes I already know it is not perfect but to me trading becomes easier if you have a firm definition to follow. Now with 10.1 I have added a BO definition. Simple but hopefully effective. With some guidance I am sure many traders will learn a lot. I am an effective counter trader but a very so so trend trader. So let the chips fly and see what happens.
Quoting AaronWard
Johnny,

By live trades I mean trades not made with an EA of some sort. It is you placing the trades, not a computer program.

I have been thinking about this particular trade and yes, your price targets that are probably the most important thing.

Directionally challenged... yup, well said.

Breakouts work very well...but the systems that I have experimented with don't work quite so well... yes.

Unquestionably you have a lot to help us with. Hopefully you will keep your Bob bashing to a minimum. Lots of space on the "no SL thread for that....
Hello Aaron,

Well said but the bashing was from both sides of the debater's table. Bob showed his perseverance to stay and fight to the end which is a very good trait in this business. Also his ability to see some humor in some of the posts broke the ice between our totally different beliefs. This has led us to this point in time and to the next level of understanding. Life is an adventure and this venture may be good for all of us.

Please be patient with my lack of patience as I'm still learning. I must remember that reality is a perception that lies somewhere between each individuals ears. Mine and yours is bound to be different as we have different experiences of both bad and good. The best we can both hope for is an understanding and then an adjustment to both of our perceptions.

It can only get more interesting,

Johnny
The key to being a good teacher is good teachers teach the positive. What I mean by that is that it does no good to teach 1+1 does not equal 3 or 6 or 8. What helps people learn and understand is teaching 1+1=2. You can bash other people and systems all you want but you are not accomplishing anything. People want to know 1+1=2 not that it doesnt = 3, 12, etc. My back ground is I am a very rare breed of an educator. I am 57 years old so I have been around the block some. I couldnt find a first and second grade teacher to come to China to teach so I teach the little tykes. You want a real challenge in life, try that one. I also go to a local Chinese university and teach PHDs, Masters Degrees, adults etc. I have also taught high school, middle school, elementary school, in fact I have at one time or another taught every grade and age group. I have never met anyone who has ever done that and that is professional classroom teaching not just informal stuff. My strength as a teacher is to take something complex and break it down so that an average person can grasp it. To some that comes across as a simplified dummy, to others the ability to grasp something they havent understood before. So we have introduced ourselves.

The differences between you and I are small compared to what I face here in China. To disagree about trading methods and strategies when I have to deal with people I have real fundamental disagreements with (like freedom speech, religion, press, assembly, to name a few) is small in my eyes. I am sure we can work those things out. I still have to live and get along with government officials that are kind of opposite from me. However, I have come to love and respect the Chinese people. I have learned a lot from them despite some very basic differences. I also have some very good friends here. Just please leave the middle school stuff at home though. I think you see that, some of your friends do not.
Bashing is fine... that's what the "no SL" thread is there for... I got to know Bob because he told me I was clueless...or maybe it was the other way around...and we probably still disagree more than we agree.
Quoting AaronWard
Bashing is fine... that's what the "no SL" thread is there for... I got to know Bob because he told me I was clueless...or maybe it was the other way around...and we probably still disagree more than we agree.
Aaron we are just on two different ends of the country and so our perspectives were different. Other than that we have been civil since. Talking about EAs now is the SL thread which is interesting.
Quoting nanningbob
The key to being a good teacher is good teachers teach the positive. What I mean by that is that it does no good to teach 1+1 does not equal 3 or 6 or 8. What helps people learn and understand is teaching 1+1=2. You can bash other people and systems all you want but you are not accomplishing anything. People want to know 1+1=2 not that it doesnt = 3, 12, etc. My back ground is I am a very rare breed of an educator. I am 57 years old so I have been around the block some. I couldnt find a first and second grade teacher to come to China to teach so...
Hello Bob,

Thanks for the introduction. Those friends as you call them I met after your post and their subsequent return posts. I have seen them posts before and recognize they do have a level of understanding of trading. How they trade is unknown to me. I have no further comment as I have little more to add. I know nothing as to their age, race, sex, marital status, religion, origin, occupation or trading methods. Many are very closed mouth about these things so this is not surprising.

I ran across an individual who spent his time attacking threads not unlike the most vocal individual on the SL thread. I exchanged emails with him and found he was actually freaking brilliant. I quickly found out he couldn't trade as he asked me if I would help him. I agreed but only if he agreed to one condition. I told him if I helped him he must change his ways and help other traders. He agreed he would try. He was a young man with a lot of bills and little money and was very frustrated his mind couldn't grasp how to trade.

Within one week he emailed his results. He had made $17,000 that first week and was crazy with excitement. He was very thankful. I brought up our agreement and he said he remembered and would give it a go. I never expected him to change. That same young man now for three years has completely changed. You wouldn't know he was the same person. Helping a genius was pretty easy as he knew more then I did or should I say remembered more with his amazing memory. He was in his early twenties with two Masters degrees from NY University. I find the genius level individuals have difficulty applying their knowledge to the task.

Have a great day,

Johnny
Quoting nanningbob
Aaron we are just on two different ends of the country and so our perspectives were different. Other than that we have been civil since. Talking about EAs now is the SL thread which is interesting.
You two are on two different ends of a country while I'm on the other side of the planet. It would seem we are all clueless to each other in one way or another. I don't speak Chinese and according to my British wife I haven't mastered English either or at least not to her level. I believe it was Sir Winston Churchill that said America and Great Britain are two countries separated only by a common language.

I see you're practicing your bashing skills over on the SL thread. LOL. Practice makes perfect they say.
Quoting JohnnyBSmart
Hello squalou,

How are things in beautiful southern France?

On the discussion of SR lines you are correct that the most recent are the current places of TP's and PA reversals. Your past thoughts of the heat map may come into play here as the most recent SR lines and old SR lines that match up become stronger SR lines. Maybe the lines could turn a different color such as bright red and/or bright green.

Depending on the timeframe and time itself, not showing the H1 SR lines will lead to orphaned trades. This is especially true during the Asian...

Hi Johnny!

Bob's recent request for modifying KG's S/R indicator caught my interest as you can imagine...
Especially when i saw that KG's indicator was based on MTF fractals.

Actually, in my last reply here, I was hoping for you to jump in and advise... I would even say i was summoning it up ....

After our recent discussions this summer about finding good (=relevant/powerful) S/R levels, and my heatmap idea, i did my homework and i think I came up with some interesting results to show.
After designing, testing, and rejecting multiple ideas, i finally came down to this design:
I had the choice between Fractals and ZigZag levels.
I decided to go for Fractals (much easier to code and configure then zigzag...).
But I made it more flexible:
A fractal is a candle that is higher(/lower) than the 2 (and only 2) candles before it and the 2 candles after it.
I made the "2 candles" a user input.
So now you can go find fractals with 3,4,9,15,whatever candles before and after the highest/lowest candle, on the user selected timeframe.

The second major point in finding good S/R levels was to eliminate too old S/R levels, yet keeping the ones that, eventhough they would be old, would still be likely to act as S/R lines when runnning out of recent S/R levels, typically when PA goes beyond its recent range (and therefore its recent S/Rs).

In order to deal with this "age" issue, I designed an "Age Fading Factor": the number of bars needed to qualify as as a fractal is directly proportionnal to its "age": a fractal A that is twice older than a fractal B will need twice as many candles as B to qualify as a fractal.
This way, only "stronger" fractals will "survive" over time.
The "Age Fading Factor" is a percentage of the fractal "age" (age=number of candles away from "now").

Example:
with an Age Fading Factor of 5(%):
a fractal that is 500 bars old will require 500*5/100 = 25 candles before and after the fractal to still qualify as a fractal,
whereas a fractal that is only 100 bars old will only require 5 candles before and after to qualify as a S/R level.

This automatically eliminates many of the S/R levels that would considered "recent" S/Rs 400 candles back, but are no longer relevant now.

Only "strong" S/Rs will survive: those that truely jump on you when you zoom way out to look for past S/R levels.


I will post my indi and some resulting charts later.
Need to go...

Sq
Quoting squalou
Hi Johnny!

Bob's recent request for modifying KG's S/R indicator caught my interest as you can imagine...
Especially when i saw that KG's indicator was based on MTF fractals.

Actually, in my last reply here, I was hoping for you to jump in and advise... I would even say i was summoning it up ....

After our recent discussions this summer about finding good (=relevant/powerful) S/R levels, and my heatmap idea, i did my homework and i think I came up with some interesting results to show.
After designing, testing, and...
Hello Squalou,

I like the KG's SR indicator version the best and that's why I posted it with my chart for Bob. The fractal indicator on TradeStation as well as their pivot indicator I've added user options to adjust the same way as you describe.

This is really just the beginning of this system and I hope you stay on the team. You always stir up my thought processes as you can see I never forgot our discussion on the heatmap indicator and SR levels. I look forward to reviewing your work on the indicator.


Have a great day,

Johnny
OK I was wondering why you liked using 1H S/R lines. So I restudied them and noticed something that happens and looks good. If you see the arrows on the pic blow I put only 1H S/R lines on the screen. On it I noticed that sometimes the S/R line was broken, retrace, and then a couple of hours later price would break and go somewhere. Is this what you see and use in trading see pic below? If true Squalou can you put a warning device in the S/R indicator? Price action goes in the opposite direction of the arrow direction.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: gbp jpy 1.gif Size: 30 KB
sigh... I hope you guys can work it out... this is a very productive system...have to say I found nothing disrespectful and a lot helpful with Johnny's last couple of posts.
Quoting AaronWard
sigh... I hope you guys can work it out... this is a very productive system...have to say I found nothing disrespectful and a lot helpful with Johnny's last couple of posts.
I concur.
I deleted the posts and apologize. I am going to step aside here for now. My comments had nothing to do with Johnny and anything he said. I have a really big problem going on here in China and I blew off steam in the wrong direction. I was wrong and am very sorry. I need to just step away for the time being and let this thread go. I deleted the posts and need to let this go for now. Sorry.

Bob
Hope all is well with you Bob. Best wishes.
Quoting nanningbob
I deleted the posts and apologize. I am going to step aside here for now. My comments had nothing to do with Johnny and anything he said. I have a really big problem going on here in China and I blew off steam in the wrong direction. I was wrong and am very sorry. I need to just step away for the time being and let this thread go. I deleted the posts and need to let this go for now. Sorry.

Bob
I hope you'll be back soon Bob.

Wish you and yours well,

Johnny
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