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Auction Market Theory and Market Profile

  • #5,321
  • Jan 23, 2014 11:22am Jan 23, 2014 11:22am
All profiles in this picture look balanced. Why “assume” a “tendency” of mean reversion, when TPO’s analysis tells you exactly “who’s in control” buyers or sellers? This is why Pattern recognition fails. Trading the “picture” with total disregard for the facts. Why guess, when the data is staring you in the face? Well, if there are no TPO’s the next best thing would be to guess, or assume. But analysis will tell if if there is clear buying or selling. That info doesn't matter to some people, but personally I prefer to trade using the facts……………….
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Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #5,322
  • Edited Jan 24, 2014 2:53am Jan 23, 2014 1:45pm | Edited Jan 24, 2014 2:53am
MzVega,
May I ask some very basic questions:
In the beginning there was Steidlmeyer.
Then there is CME/CBOT Market Profile (Dalton) and there is CISCO (Jones), right?!
Except for TPO charts, they use different concepts?!
Sometimes these concepts are compatible, sometimes not?!
Sometimes you talk straight CISCO, sometimes it's straight CME/CBOT and
sometimes it doesn't make a difference?!
  • #5,323
  • Edited 4:13pm Jan 23, 2014 3:49pm | Edited 4:13pm
Quoting svengralla
MzVega, May I ask some very basic questions: In the beginning there was Steidlmeyer. Then there is CME Market Profile (Dalton) and there is Cisco (Jones), right?! Except for TPO charts, they use different concepts?! Sometimes these concepts are compatible, sometimes not?! Sometimes you talk straight Cisco, sometimes it's straight CME and sometimes it doesn't make a difference?!
It depends on who I'm talking to........................

The science of "TPO" analysis is an"Auction Market Theory" concept. Any time you analyze "TPO's" it's Auction Market Analysis.

MP uses TPO's & "cleared volume" for analysis. MP analysis is designed for End of day analysis and trade preparation for the following day. Also, MP per Dalton assumes that "Value" is determined by the intraday daily TF. It's a "Day-local" concept. And It excludes multi-day day analysis. This concept is exclusive to CME and most "cleared volume markets"

This does not work for Forex & tick based Markets.


Analyzing Tick-based markets (FX) by using "TPO's" is still an Auction Market Theory" concept. Through this analysis it has been proven that for "Tick-based markets", the nature of "Tick-based markets" and its 24h environment that true "value" can not be determined in the daily TF. Its has proven that for tick based markets you need a minimum of 3 days of data to determine balance. A balanced profile in the intraday TF is not valid unless you can confirm it with the 3. There will never be "volume" to use a a variable, so again the "MP" form of analysis is not suitable or compatible for 24h tick based Markets.


I'm often asked a question pertaining to MP, I explain that according to "TPO's Analysis" (AMT) how their MP application does fit the FX model, they are quick to tell me that AMT doesn't apply to them, they're "MP" traders. How do you argue with that???? Its obvious they don't even do the required for analysis MP. And others are under the impression that a volume profile fits into this. I doesnt. And as always, as when I explain, they immediately tell me it doesnt apply to them, cause they're "MP" traders. And I get accused of only selling the idea of "AMT".


How do you possibly work with that? You cant...... So, Im left to give them what they ask for, I answer the question as it applies to "MP". I know it doesnt fit FX.......but Ill be damned if I let them come back here telling me I'm I misinformed them. They are quick to tell me they dont "do" AMT. They trade MP only. So I give it as per MP. When I talk with some who is educated on the subject, we can discuss things as it applies to "tick based markets". There's only 1 trader here that I can discuss these concepts with and as we know Evak doesn't post here often.

I hope I answered any questions.......


Don Jones is the father of Eric Jones, who co authored "Mind over Markets" & "Markets in Profile" Dalton, Jones, Dalton.

A third book was going written but the differences in concept prevented it. Don Jones wrote VBPT, which explains the differences in both and the data to support it.

Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #5,324
  • Edited 4:34pm Jan 23, 2014 4:13pm | Edited 4:34pm
Ok. I thought "TPO chart" is synonymous for "MP" (actually that's how Dalton does), therefore everything that uses TPO charts is MP.
Now it becomes clearer, thanks.
  • #5,325
  • Edited 5:20pm Jan 23, 2014 4:16pm | Edited 5:20pm
Quoting svengralla
Ok. I thought "TPO chart" is synonymous for "MP", therefore everything that uses TPO charts is MP. Now it becomes clearer, thanks.
Anything that uses "Tpo's" is a form of "auction market analysis" (AMT). MP is used for CME or "cleared volume" markets................
Feel free to ask me any questions, if I cant give you an answer, I can at least direct you where to find the answer...........

See the insanity I have to deal with when I try to explain this simple concept, it's obvious they don't know the first thing about either subject.

Quoting infinitus
"it states: Auction Market Theory and Market Profiles You are trying to sell here the religion of ONLY ATM"
Quoting infinitus
"Are you completely nuts? Where did I start a discussion, that MP only applies to CME markets and not to FX or other markets? Are you out of your right mind to lay words into my mouth I have never spoken, enhance discussion to topics we never discussed?"
Quoting infinitus
And again you fail to recognize that the thread per the thread-starters wish is not only about ATM but also about MP.

Quoting infinitus
"When will you acknowledge, that Muntu asked for MP or VP, and not ATM?"
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #5,326
  • Jan 23, 2014 7:19pm Jan 23, 2014 7:19pm
Quoting mzvega
{quote} Anything that uses "Tpo's" is a form of "auction market analysis" (AMT). MP is used for CME or "cleared volume" markets................ Feel free to ask me any questions, if I cant give you an answer, I can at least direct you where to find the answer........... See the insanity I have to deal with when I try to explain this simple concept, it's obvious they don't know the first thing about either subject. {quote} {quote} {quote} {quote}

The silliness goes on and on and on:

http://www.cisco-futures.com/amt_theory.html


When we refer to Market Profile, the meaning is essentially simply the bell shaped distribution curve of the TPO's (which Steidlmeyer named "Market Profil")

See the red marked text in the citation below.

Market Profile is simply the price-volume distribution over one day (in Steidlmeyers definition). Nothing more, nothing less. You can use this MP's to perform a AMT-analysis in the way CISCO promotes (which is also the way MzVega uses it), or use another way to perform an AMT-analysis, or you simply use the MP's for your own kind of analysis. Some people use the MP's for simply the analysis/detection of the S/R-zones (which works very fine).


When MzVega now tries to confuse people, by saying, that Market Profile is a trading system, or that ATM is part of Market Profile, I am only baffled.

Re-read the answers she gave in the last postings:

in some she says, that every analysis, that uses TPO is kind of AMT (which is kind of correct), in other she states that MP uses TPO and cleared volume (which is not correct - MP is build by calculating TPO's). You can use MP without even performing an AMT-analysis (like the above mentioned detection of S/R-zones.

So again MzVega fails in understanding the thread owners wish to offer a forum for AMT and MP

What MzVega is trying to establish is a thread like "Using MP's in AMT-analysis"



Beginnings of Auction Market Analysis: Steidlmayer Original Decisions
J.P. Steidlmayer started as a floor trader at the Chicago Board of Trade in 1963. Over time he developed the concepts from which evolved the Market Profile volume charts and an auction market description as well (ref. 2). The seven market concepts below are a brief overview of his work.
1) All the publications he searched attempted to predict the market. They failed. He surmised that prediction of the future should not be a goal.
2) Graham and Dodd's book Security Analysis showed that value could be found in the present tense. He projected this result to his trading.
3) He posited a basic unit of market activity, now known as the TPO (price and time location of trading activity). TPO's are measured in half-hour segments of the trading day. Steidlmayer selected the half-hour time frame because that seemed to be the time it took for new information to get represented into price change.
4) He found that grouping a day's set of basic units forms a bell shaped distribution of price - volume over a day, which he named a Market Profile (tm). The bell shape called to mind the 'normal distribution' so widely applied elsewhere to bring "order out of chaos".
5) Price-over-time measures value. He saw that relative value at a price is equal to the sum of the basic units (TPO's) at that price.
6) Traders/investors seek a fair price. Markets auction 'too high' and 'too low' in the search for fair prices. Markets accept fair prices with enhanced volume and reject unfair prices by way of low volume. The price range is reached by negotiation among the traders.
7) His experience showed that there are two sorts of market, '(balanced) day trading' where value is static and the market moves around a static fair price; and 'longer term' where value is moving (sometimes called 'trend days').



The following is especially funny:

when I gave Muntu a mathematical correct answer to his initial question, MzVega went out in force trying to beat me religiously with AMT (which is over most part empirical)

LOL

Auction Market Structure: Beginnings of AMT
Short timeframe auction markets, although not an an equilibrium system, do spend time in quasi-equilibrium, balanced trading. As a non-equilibrium system, AMT is difficult to describe in a closed mathematical formulation. Much of the analysis of near term markets is necessarily empirical. A benefit is that AMT, in practice, is not obscured by mathematical formalism. The average trader can readily understand and follow the principles. That is not true of CAPM with it's efficient frontier.



It is really equal funny and sad, how one single person here (MzVega), who I value high for her understanding of AMT, can dig an ever bigger hole each day for her self in arguing with me and constantly using the wrong arguments.




And important:

when MzVega says AMT, she only accepts the method CISCO teaches, nothing else as far as I see.


Here is the history of AMT from above cited link:



The field of Auction Markets was developed quite recently in the history of financial economics. J. Peter Steidlmayer laid the groundwork, changing the focus from price to value. We have borrowed freely from his works. Jim Dalton, one of the first to recognize the value of Steidlmayer's ideas, contributed heavily with Mind Over Markets (co-authored by Eric Jones and Rob Dalton). Eric Jones edited The Profile Report, an important source of research on Market Profile in the early days. Professor Tom Drinka, at Western Illinois University, was also responsible for research and for bringing Auction Market techniques into the classroom. My thanks go to Tom for reviewing this work as well as an earlier book, Value Based Power Trading.

Closer to home, Christopher Young, in my organization, developed a computer analysis of "day type", for types of Market Profiles. Day types are 'normal', 'trend', 'non-trend, etc. The idea was to catalog a time series of day types and chart the normal growth patterns of markets. When the data refused to fit a pattern I realized that markets are not day-to-day serially correlated. Inter-day volatility masks the trend even in relatively strong trends. Lack of serial correlation implies that one could not blindly use yesterday's data to trade today. A longer timeframe is needed to find the 'market condition', i.e. whether it is balancing, trending or in transition. That was the breakthrough that led to Auction Market Theory.

Donald L. Jones Aurora, Colorado March 12, 2002




As you can see, all have freely borrowed from Steidlmeyers work and his Market Profiles.

So, feel free to use the Market Profiles in any way you see fit. And do not confuse MP with AMT
  • #5,327
  • Jan 23, 2014 7:40pm Jan 23, 2014 7:40pm
Quoting svengralla
MzVega, May I ask some very basic questions: In the beginning there was Steidlmeyer. Then there is CME Market Profile (Dalton) and there is Cisco (Jones), right?! Except for TPO charts, they use different concepts?! Sometimes these concepts are compatible, sometimes not?! Sometimes you talk straight Cisco, sometimes it's straight CME and sometimes it doesn't make a difference?!

Hahaha, very good question


They all do use the Market Profiles by Steidlmeyer (which is the curve the calculated TPO's build)

MP is not a kind of AMT, MP is the tool (the curve) for an AMT


see my previous posting



funny, that MzVega answers, that it depends to whom she is talking to......... (without words)


Her statement, that you can not use MP's in Forex Markets is completely misleading. You can use the MP's (distribution curves) in many ways with good result also in Forex markets. Some people think, that when you want to perform AMT-analysis in Forex, you will need more than a single days MP (e.g. three days profile)

Some people use instead of Steidlmeyrs TPO's simply VPO's (volume price opportunity curves). When using VPO's, you do not have a MP (which is a trademark of Steidlmeyer, therefore TPO), but you then have a Volume Profile.


The curves of a volume profile compared with the curve of a Market Profile most of the time gets you a very similar curve.

The difference is: on a TPO-chart you can see by reading the letters, when the (e.g) value was build. On a VPO chart you need the price chart additionally, to see when the value was build.

In both, the TPO and the VPO chart, you can determine the mean, the POC, the value area etc.


The beauty of my answer: it will remain the same, regardless whom I am talking to.......
  • #5,328
  • Jan 23, 2014 7:41pm Jan 23, 2014 7:41pm
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Try again..................................




http://www.cisco-futures.com/mpintro.html

CISCO Futures



Market Profile/Meta-Profile for Day-Trading: A Brief Introduction
Market Profile is tm of CBOT, Meta-Profile is copyright CISCO
September 23, 2004




Your job as a trend trader is to locate the start of a directional move (trend) and to stay with it until you detect the congestion (non-directional balancing) that signals end of trend. If you are a congestion trader you want to sell tops of balances and buy balance bottoms.
Facts to keep in mind:

The CBOT Market Profile (tm CBOT)
A Market Profile is a graphic displaying price and volume on the vertical axis, with cleared price activity on the horizontal broken down by trading period. Market Profile is a subset of the Liquidity Data Bank (LDB) report. LDB reports are released only by the Chicago Board of Trade (CBOT). The horizontal activity is identified by letters for each time period (for half-hour periods the letters are A = 08:00 to 08:30, B = 08:30 to 09:00 and so on). These letters are called TPOs (Time-Price-Opportunity). Value is defined as those prices included within the central 70 percent of the cleared volume, beginning at the peak volume of the day. Market Profiles are available only from exchanges that report volume at price (Liquidity Data Bank). Currently, the CBOT is the only exchange that reports out the LDB. Since Market Profiles come from cleared volume data they are not available in real time even for the CBOT.


Go to Market Profile Data: Current/History

The CISCO Meta-Profile(tm CISCO)
[justify]A Meta-Profile replaces the volume of the Market Profile with tick data, generating TPOs (That-Price-Occured or Ticked). These TPOs are used as a surrogate for the volume of the CBOT Market Profile. Value is defined as those prices included within the central 70 percent of the TPOs. Meta-Profiles are generated in real time and are limited only to markets that produce tick data. Meta-Profile methodology was created by CISCO in 1987, it was published in 1987 and it has been in continuous use on the CISCO Bulletin Board and website since then. In balanced markets values from Meta-Profiles and Market Profiles agree quite well. In directional markets they diverge, a finding potentially quite useful to traders and market analysts. It should be noted that many subscribers to Market Profile services are actually receiving the Meta-Profile.
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #5,329
  • Jan 23, 2014 7:43pm Jan 23, 2014 7:43pm
Quoting svengralla
Ok. I thought "TPO chart" is synonymous for "MP" (actually that's how Dalton does), therefore everything that uses TPO charts is MP. Now it becomes clearer, thanks.

That is right: Steidlmeyer has the copyright on the Name "Market Profile", which is a TPO chart


see my reply two posts above


Sadly, she has confused you, but I hope my posting above has set that straight
  • #5,330
  • Jan 23, 2014 7:56pm Jan 23, 2014 7:56pm
Quoting mzvega
{image} http://www.cisco-futures.com/mpintro.html CISCO Futures Market Profile/Meta-Profile for Day-Trading: A Brief Introduction Market Profile is tm of CBOT, Meta-Profile is copyright CISCO September 23, 2004 Your job as a trend trader is to locate the start of a directional move (trend) and to stay with it until you detect the congestion (non-directional balancing) that signals end of trend. If you are a congestion trader you want to sell tops of balances and buy balance bottoms. Facts to keep in mind: The CBOT Market Profile (tm CBOT)...

I really do not know what you try to say here again

I know very well that CISCO thinks, that you can not use MP for AMT in Forex.

Well, they are entitled to their own opinion. Others have other.

Do you acknowledge, that I have noticed from the beginning, that this is CISCO's OPINION?


I have enough data/studies for Forex markets that say, that tick-volume is a very good proxy for real volume. The accuracy was around 90%. That is good enough for me. Go to my thread "The Club", there you can download some of the studies.


And it is clear to me, that CISCO likes to sell their Meta-Profiles for tick-data-markets


And I acknowledge, that nearly everytime you show a CISCO document (which you do very often), I can read, that I need to have a subscription for this or that.

see picture

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  • #5,331
  • Edited 8:19pm Jan 23, 2014 8:06pm | Edited 8:19pm
Quoting infinitus
{quote} I really do not know what you try to say here again I know very well that CISCO thinks, that you can not use MP for AMT in Forex. Well, they are entitled to their own opinion. Others have other. Do you acknowledge, that I have noticed from the beginning, that this is CISCO's OPINION? I have enough data/studies for Forex markets that say, that tick-volume is a very good proxy for real volume. The accuracy was around 90%. That is good enough for me. Go to my thread "The Club", there you can download some of the studies. And it is...
TPO data is for all ticked based markets. The data is on the chart!!!!!!!!!!
Its free to anyone who chooses to look at it..........

If you have TPO's available its free
so what are you saying that you have to pay to see Bandung's indicator??????
All you need is ability to see the data. Just use it......Cisco futures gives the formulas & explains how to mathematically do it yourself
CISCO opinion is supported by theory, testing, it has been proven.

And if tick volume at price was acceptable, why doesn't CME use it? Why do they lease this data from CISCO???????
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Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #5,332
  • Jan 23, 2014 8:11pm Jan 23, 2014 8:11pm
Quoting mzvega
{image} Try again.................................. http://www.cisco-futures.com/mpintro.html .
You really get more stupid with every post:

here from the link you quoted:

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exactly what I said



And since we are at it again:

have you understand now the difference between AMT and MP? Inquiring minds want to know.......
  • #5,333
  • Jan 23, 2014 8:46pm Jan 23, 2014 8:46pm
Quoting infinitus
{quote} You really get more stupid with every post: here from the link you quoted: {image} exactly what I said And since we are at it again: have you understand now the difference between AMT and MP? Inquiring minds want to know.......
Yes I do know the difference, analysis & how you determine value are calculated differently. LDB "cleared volume" is not tick volume. At the EOD analysis you will have conflicting info. The way your trades are set comparing one days value to the previous as per Dalton, does not work, and is not traded that way in a 24h tick based Market. MP methodology & stadegies does not work in a 24h market by comparing one days against the other. That is exclusive to MP. This is all TPO related nothing to do with Volume at price..........................

Day Trader Alert: Meta-Profile Differs from Market Profile
In a quiet, balancing market, profiles from volume and profiles from ticks find essentially the same value. If value changes within the day there can be a substantial difference between the two. The Meta-Profile value comes from a collection of many inputs, the TPTs. Market Profile calculates value starting from one point, the high volume price, the POCVOL.

Imagine a case in which the market trades in a set price range most of the day and then value changes, with highest volume in the less traded price area. The tick based Meta-Profile will show one value while the volume based Market Profile finds another. Such a case is illustrated in figure 5 (December 2004 wheat, Sep 17). Trading was confined to the price range 341:4 to 336:4 from the open at 9:30 AM in period D through period I (12:00 to 12:30). The last hour of the day (periods J and K, 12:30 to 13:30) saw price drop to 331:0. Peak volume (POCVOL) came at 332:4 while peak TPT count (POCTPT) was earlier in the day at 339:0. The difference, 6.5 cents, is $325, quite a lot in a market where the daily range is only $525.

A trader now has two widely differing sets of support and resistance for this day. Which to use? From figure 5, the latest (in time) volume value center (POCVOL) is in the lower price range toward the end of the day. Value from volume came latest in the day, superseding the earlier TPT value from ticks. Clearly for this case the volume value is the correct choice.

Markets often display follow-through after an abrupt change in value late in the day. A trader would look for continuation to the downside early the next day (Sep 20) . Price below the support of the 70% VOLUME SUMMARY, 331:0, would indicate continuation down. From the tick bars in figure 6, you can see that price dropped through 331:0 in the 9:35 to 9:40 timeframe. The drop continued down to 325:0 in the next five minute period. No one can say just how a trader (you) would have acted, but it is certain that 1) knowing which value to use, and 2) understanding a market's propensity to follow-through would have offered you a nearly six cent ($300) opportunity within a ten minute time period.

Differing value determinations by the two types of profile are not rare, occurring more than twenty percent of the time. In the case treated here, the volume value was the correct one. About half the time it goes the other way and tick based profiles are the correct ones.

Those getting their values from the "Market Profiles" of quote providers are most probably receiving Meta-Profiles based on tick data. They have no way of comparing with volume based Market Profiles unless they subscribe to the Liquidity Data Bank (available only on CBOT futures). In the absence of a volume based value to compare with, their best strategy is to carefully examine their Meta-Profile for a structure like that of figure 5 (right side). Any late-in-the-day market surge is suspect. If the trading is strong and sustained, without a return to the fat part of the profile, the calculated value support and resistance prices are more than suspect, they are most likely invalid.
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #5,334
  • Jan 23, 2014 8:50pm Jan 23, 2014 8:50pm
Quoting mzvega
{image} Try again.................................. http://www.cisco-futures.com/mpintro.html CISCO Futures Market Profile/Meta-Profile for Day-Trading: A Brief Introduction Market Profile is tm of CBOT, Meta-Profile is copyright CISCO September 23, 2004 Your job as a trend trader is to locate the start of a directional move (trend) and to stay with it until you detect the congestion (non-directional balancing) that signals end of trend. If you are a congestion trader you want to sell tops of balances and buy balance bottoms. Facts...

How strange your reasoning is:

now you try to shift away the attention from the difference of AMT and MP to the topic of tick-data-marked and LDB-data market.

First you say, that we can not use the MP for AMT in Forex, then you say we have to use at least 3 days of data for MP in Forex, then you link a text, which says, that we can use the tick data by using the meta-profiles LOL



really funny, as it all boils down to the fact, that we can use MP in Forex LOL

Only question is: how much data do we need? And the whole discussion was in the first place nowhere about this very topic.......


But I do understand:


you have not only confused others, you self are the most confused person here.


So let me give some readings to you from your Darling CISCO (it is best when I can beat you with your own material)


http://www.cisco-futures.com/marketprofile_history.html

http://ciscofutures.com/dtsupportres.html


You have failed miserably to explain the people here, where the volume is needed for. And based on your discussion here with me, I think you do not really understand, where volume is needed for, and that there might be a way to use the volume not only at the end of the process but at the beginning (OK, that is not the Steidlmeyer way, but proof me mathematically wrong here in my approach - but again, the difference between Steidlmeyrs TPO and the VPO I do calculate was really not the topic in the first place).

By using the tick-volume in Forex as proxy for real volume (I have already stated, that tick-volume as proxy for real volume has an accuracy of over 90%) you can calculate the TPO in Steidlmeyer-way and later use the tick-volume as volume for determining the value area.

All what you do is denying, lying, confusing, ridiculing, using wrong arguments, explaining wrongly and so on.


Another way to achieve this, is to calculate from the beginning VPO's to get a volume profile. The only disadvantage you have from this is, that your VPO curve does not show (time) letters, so you have to look at the corresponding price chart in order to see, where the volume came from (time wise)

If you can not grasp this concept, get a teacher to explain you all this.......


What a cluster-fuck this is........
  • #5,335
  • Jan 23, 2014 8:55pm Jan 23, 2014 8:55pm
Why can't people just come in here and learn with an open mind and be constructive??? Sigh!
  • #5,336
  • Jan 23, 2014 9:02pm Jan 23, 2014 9:02pm
Quoting mzvega
{quote} Yes I do know the difference, analysis & how you determine value are calculated differently. LDB "cleared volume" is not tick volume. At the EOD analysis you will have conflicting info. The way your trades are set comparing one days value to the previous as per Dalton, does not work, and is not traded that way in a 24h tick based Market. MP methodology & stadegies does not work in a 24h market by comparing one days against the other. That is exclusive to MP. This is all TPO related nothing to do with Volume at price.............................


OK, let me summarize:


first you told, we can not use MP in Forex

then you told, we can use MP for AMT, when we use three days

then you insist again on that we can not use volume in Forex tick market

then you say we can use Meta-Profiles

then you say, we can use both, but when using volume data (for value area) in Meta profiles which is not LDB cleared, we are 20% of the time right, but when we use instead of volume data simply the tick-data, we are 50% of the time right


Holy shit!!!!!



I simply stay with my VPO's and am right most of the time.
  • #5,337
  • Jan 23, 2014 9:03pm Jan 23, 2014 9:03pm
Quoting hohgch
Why can't people just come in here and learn with an open mind and be constructive??? Sigh!

Care to elaborate who is open minded and who not!
  • #5,338
  • Jan 23, 2014 9:06pm Jan 23, 2014 9:06pm
Quoting hohgch
Why can't people just come in here and learn with an open mind and be constructive??? Sigh!

oh, just forgotten:

are those forums not meant for discussion?

do you never question what some people are teaching you?

do you never look for improvements of methods or ways?
  • #5,339
  • Jan 23, 2014 9:11pm Jan 23, 2014 9:11pm
Quoting infinitus
{quote} How strange your reasoning is: now you try to shift away the attention from the difference of AMT and MP to the topic of tick-data-marked and LDB-data market. First you say, that we can not use the MP for AMT in Forex, then you say we have to use at least 3 days of data for MP in Forex, then you link a text, which says, that we can use the tick data by using the meta-profiles LOL really funny, as it all boils down to the fact, that we can use MP in Forex LOL Only question is: how much data do we need? And the whole discussion was in the...
This is the data used for Analysis, you cant possibly analyze this the same way using volume at price. Its about analyzing the data, and these are the variables. You cant perform the same analysis by replacing TPO's with Volume at price and get the same or similar results. It probably doesn't matter if your trading a "picture".
Its called ANALYSIS, if you aren't going to analyze your data for making trade decisions, then of course any old "picture" will do. But TPO data is needed to analyze an Auction Market.
CMaPS provides these reference points, information generated by the market.
Market Profile for the Periods Selected (PS)
Shape of profile
Value Area for PS (PS = period selected)
Point of Control (maximum TPO price) for PS
Half-hour price bars for PS
First and Last prices traded (F and L) in the last half-hour bar
Tick count total for PS
Half-hour OHLC 30 minute bars for PS
Time range
Ticks
First (Open), High, Low, Last (Close)
Time of High
Time of Low
Tick count
Reference Points (optional)
Current Day
Tick count for PS
Value Area for PS
Point of Control for PS
Initial Balance (range of first two periods) for PS
Upper
Lower
Range Extension (trading above/below Initial Balance, 2 TPOs or more) for PS
Upper
Lower
Volatility (average range of half-hour bars) for PS
Trading Fraction (connects posted price with reporting price)
Trade Facilitation Factor (average number of TPOs per price) for PS
TPOs above Point of Control (excluding single TPOs) for PS
TPOs below Point of Control " " " " "
Total TPOs for PS
Prior Trading Day (Day hours)
Shape of profile
Tick count for day
Value Area for day
Point of Control for day
Initial Balance (range of first two periods) for day
Upper
Lower
Range Extension (trading above/below Initial Balance, 2 TPOs or more) for day
Upper
Lower
Volatility (average range of half-hour bars) for day
Trading Fraction (connects posted price with reporting price)
Trade Facilitation Factor (average number of TPOs per price) for day
TPOs above Point of Control (excluding single TPOs) for day
TPOs below Point of Control " " " " "
Total TPOs for day
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #5,340
  • Jan 23, 2014 9:27pm Jan 23, 2014 9:27pm
Quoting mzvega
{quote} This is the data used for Analysis, you cant possibly analyze this the same way using volume at price. Its about analyzing the data, and these are the variables. You cant perform the same analysis by replacing TPO's with Volume at price and get the same or similar results. It probably doesn't matter if your trading a "picture". Its called ANALYSIS, if you aren't going to analyze your data for making trade decisions, then of course any old "picture" will do. But TPO data is needed to analyze an Auction Market. CMaPS provides these reference...

Thanks you for the nice list of the topics I HAVE to analyze


Do not care about me - I have almost told you from the beginning, that analyzing 40 different topics in order to come to a trading decision is a no go for me


And again: this topics are viewed important by CISCO in order to come to a conclusion via an AMT.analysis. It may not reflect all opinion
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