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Trading Without a StopLoss

  • #61
  • Apr 12, 2013 2:07am Apr 12, 2013 2:07am
Quoting matheszabi
So take it seriously the 10 vs 90 pip trading plan, maybe isn't four you either.
That's not a trading plan.....it's gambling
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #62
  • Apr 12, 2013 2:08am Apr 12, 2013 2:08am
Quoting matheszabi
Example:
If you have an 1k account and the account leverage is max 1:100, than you can make a trading with maximum 100,000 units = 1lot. That is the maximum.
But if you want to risk only the 2% ( at 100 pip margin call) than your order size is 2,000 units, which is a most commonly accepted risk per trade. And you don't use SL ( you have a margin call, at any account).
If you trade 2,000 units ($) or 0.02 lots, your margin requirement will $20 with leverage of 100:1
You will not get a margin call until 98% of your account has gone.
Stop trading and do some studying. You have no idea what you are talking about
Please Do Not PM Me With Coding Enquiries
  • #63
  • Apr 12, 2013 2:09am Apr 12, 2013 2:09am
i dont trade with one at all, but i can take a loss

if you read jack schwager's books lots of those dudes dont
  • #64
  • Apr 12, 2013 2:15am Apr 12, 2013 2:15am
Quoting Pipocrates
i dont trade with one at all, but i can take a loss if you read jack schwager's books lots of those dudes dont
Sooner or later you'll pay the price...make no mistake. Think the Japanese earthquake/tsunami type incident that triggered a huge and instant drop of UJ can't happen again?........think again!
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #65
  • Apr 12, 2013 2:22am Apr 12, 2013 2:22am
Quoting realjumper
Sooner or later you'll pay the price...make no mistake. Think the Japanese earthquake/tsunami type incident that triggered a huge and instant drop of UJ can't happen again?........think again!
meh, i trade my system, not fear
  • #66
  • Apr 12, 2013 2:32am Apr 12, 2013 2:32am
Quoting Pipocrates
meh, i trade my system, not fear
yeah, yeah......lol
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #67
  • Apr 12, 2013 2:32am Apr 12, 2013 2:32am
Quoting Pipocrates
meh, i trade my system, not fear
I trade my method, not fear.
Why no fear?
Because I always have a SL in place.
If I leave a position open when I go to bed, I have no concerns and I can sleep.
If no SL I would be waking up and checking tyoo often with apprehension.

There's a saying: "The markets can remain irrational longer than you can stay solvent"

No matter how good your system is, there will be times that the market moves against you and just keeps going.
Please Do Not PM Me With Coding Enquiries
  • #68
  • Apr 12, 2013 2:48am Apr 12, 2013 2:48am
everybody is different man, find what works for you and stick with it,

if people want to trade with out stoplosses or super high leverage, hedge or whatever goes against the mainstream "wisdom" fuc* it, let'em

experimentation is key to finding your self/system

the most convincing argument is performance
  • #69
  • Apr 12, 2013 2:55am Apr 12, 2013 2:55am
Quoting Pipocrates
everybody is different man, find what works for you and stick with it, if people want to trade with out stoplosses or super high leverage, hedge or whatever goes against the mainstream "wisdom" fuc* it, let'em experimentation is key to finding your self/system the most convincing argument is performance
I'm not telling you or anyone else what to do......do what you want, it's no skin off my nose. I'm just letting you know that what has happened to many, many, many 'traders' who trade without a SL, will almost certainly happen to you too.

The advice is free....take it or leave it
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #70
  • Apr 12, 2013 2:56am Apr 12, 2013 2:56am
I think that this is a big mistake, I use to in my early days wonder why my stops were getting hit. It is simply because I did not know what I was doing. Trading with no stop means that you don't know what the market is doing and simply hope that it will turn into a profit.

Its trading from ignorance and lack of knowledge, ignorance is fine we are all ignorant when we start, staying ignorant is dumb. If you have to trade with no stops it means you are clueless about the markets and trading on luck.

It always runs out and you will be in your biggest order ever because thats how the curve of greed goes. When you hit gold ie you have been trading and got lucky and made a few pips you will feel you are unbeatable, then you double your position, because you are going to mint it. The market moves against you and now because you are in with twice the money it hurts. So what do you do, well like many new traders you enter the same trade thinking I will quickly cover my loss and close out. But it goes even further against you.

Now you are right in it, huge position and you get a margin call.

We all do this, the good traders stop doing this and learn from it the bad traders keep doing it.

my pennies worth

Mike Haran
  • #71
  • Apr 12, 2013 3:00am Apr 12, 2013 3:00am
im not here to give advice

im here to offer an opinion, a counter to all the mainstream "wisdom"

and im certainly not here to take it
  • #72
  • Apr 12, 2013 3:08am Apr 12, 2013 3:08am
Quoting Pipocrates
im not here to give advice im here to offer an opinion, a counter to all the mainstream "wisdom" and im certainly not here to take it
And your opinion is backed up with: "meh, i trade my system, not fear" ......... ROFL
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #73
  • Apr 12, 2013 3:09am Apr 12, 2013 3:09am
Quoting Mike Haran
I think that this is a big mistake, I use to in my early days wonder why my stops were getting hit. It is simply because I did not know what I was doing. Trading with no stop means that you don't know what the market is doing and simply hope that it will turn into a profit. Its trading from ignorance and lack of knowledge, ignorance is fine we are all ignorant when we start, staying ignorant is dumb. If you have to trade with no stops it means you are clueless about the markets and trading on luck. It always runs out and you will be in your biggest...
Dead right Mike......happens all the time...sadly
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #74
  • Apr 12, 2013 3:14am Apr 12, 2013 3:14am
Quoting Pipocrates
im not here to give advice im here to offer an opinion, a counter to all the mainstream "wisdom" and im certainly not here to take it
You're not here to offer advice, just your opinion.
You're certainly not here to take others' advice.
So what you are saying is that your opinion counts and everybody else's is just so much Sh*t.
You are suffering from a superiority complex.
One thing that the market excels at is humbling those with a superiority complex
Please Do Not PM Me With Coding Enquiries
  • #75
  • Apr 12, 2013 3:16am Apr 12, 2013 3:16am
Hello,

nice topic you have there.I would like to say few things.First of all trading with stop loss depends of mentality and trading plan of trader and knowledge offcourse.Think neither of you are right or wrong.

I was trading with SL before and always was frustrated when after whole day waiting, my SL is hit by one or few pips,and then turn in my favor for long time.Doesn't this happened to all of you? After that (in my case) comes fear,frustrate,weaker discipline of patiente for waiting another chance or tirrednes watching another chance to come.Most people have SL on logical points (highs,lows etc.) and what market makers and banks do about it?

...move price to hit your stop losses,pick money and then change of move price in your direction.Lets say few times a week,month and you begin to ask yourself,is it my strategy loss one or what am i doing wrong? You change strategy,plan,always with new hoping of success....then same thing....over and over again and time passing withou you to be profitable trader.

I know there are very good traders who use SL like Realjumper is but think more traders doesnt have mentality like that to succed in this bussiness.
If SL is safe and good thing why 95% traders lose money.Logical isn't it?

I trade over 1 year without SL with success, and not saying that this is right thing to do,but if you not using SL you need to have plan few steps ahead.
Ask yourself: "if goes in my directions,what to do or if goes agains me what will i do to protect myself...."

Learn and read more about adding to position,hedge when need to,made beetwen,about recovery trading and different money management tehnique....In forex is all about risk,why accept loss if you believe in system and your analyses + good money management (very important)....

PA cannot go to sky or ground...need to have pullback,retrace,change of directions, from both psihological and tehnical aspect (even fundamental)..

Think that problems lies that traders want 100% or 200% returns on their account monthly (it could be done),but why not start with less profit and high safe trading till learn and get feeling how market acts and use mtf analyses to open your eyes what can be next,prepare your plans and stick to it,not gambling and go in market without SL waiting only to price go till you tp that's stupid.

Guess it is all about mentality of trader and what work for him,i tried both ways and I am not friend of stop loss,but for that you need to have proper education!

My 2 cents

Highest regards!!
  • #76
  • Apr 12, 2013 3:16am Apr 12, 2013 3:16am
its a hell of a system

conventional wisdom leads to conventional results

in forex conventional results are losers

i be done mon
  • #77
  • Apr 12, 2013 3:21am Apr 12, 2013 3:21am
Physical stop loss is not necessary. Mental stop loss is a must.
  • #78
  • Apr 12, 2013 3:22am Apr 12, 2013 3:22am
If anybody wonders why some of us defend the use of a stoploss, it is because we have suffered the traumatic experiences that inevitably happen when you don't use one.
We know that newbie traders will read this thread and we do not want them to suffer the same way that we have.
Most traders that do not use a SL are delusional, in denial, are unable to accept a loss or worse, think that they know better than the market.
The market is always right and unless you are able to accept that you are wrong when persisting with a losing position, the market will take everything that you can throw at it.
Please Do Not PM Me With Coding Enquiries
  • #79
  • Apr 12, 2013 3:27am Apr 12, 2013 3:27am
Trading with no stop means that you don't know what the market is doing and simply hope that it will turn into a profit.

Mike your post i good and you probably have success with stop loss but i disagree with this sentence....

Nobody know what will market do next,there are only higher probability, knowledge and experience with speculate where the market will go and how to be prepared for that.

sorry for my english isn't the best

Regards!
  • #80
  • Apr 12, 2013 3:32am Apr 12, 2013 3:32am
Quoting Zokynho
Hello, nice topic you have there.I would like to say few things.First of all trading with stop loss depends of mentality and trading plan of trader and knowledge offcourse.Think neither of you are right or wrong. I was trading with SL before and always was frustrated when after whole day waiting, my SL is hit by one or few pips,and then turn in my favor for long time.Doesn't this happened to all of you? After that (in my case) comes fear,frustrate,weaker discipline of patiente for waiting another chance or tirrednes watching another chance to come.Most...
I can see where you're coming from, but it still comes down to a few basics.

1. Know what a SL is there for. It's not there to be placed at a position that you would like to lose, if need be. I mean, no one likes to lose. Ok, 10 pips is not a big deal, so I'll place my SL there shall I? Guess what? It WILL get hit most of the time. The SL is there for an emergency. To protect your account from serious damage in the even of a major event.....and there has been, and will be many. That doesn't mean to say that you sit there like a muppet watching the PA go against you until it hits your (say) 50 pip SL. That's just stupid. When you realise you have made a mistake and the market is not going in your favour, you exit the trade......maybe you even reverse it...whatever. You don't sit there like a muppet watching the SL get hit. It is there as an emergency account protector!

2. Placing the Sl above/below the previous swing high/swing low......+ a bit extra.....is a good way to go about it. If the swing is too far away, then wait out the trade and look for another opportunity. You don't *have* to be in a trade.

3. Brokers cannot move the market 40 pips just to get a few retail SL's....that's just crap and a parroted fairytale......brokers don't have that power.

There's more to it than this, but that's the 'guts' of it. If your SL gets hit 'all the time' then you don't understand where to place your SL or what it is actually there for. I say again......it is an emergency device to protect your account in the event of a disaster....of which there has been many, and will be many more. It is up to YOU to exit your trade when you realise that you made a mistake......
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
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