Nb 10.0 range trading system | Page 14 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

HYBRID: trading system within a trading system 31 replies

GBPJPY Range Bar Trading System 335 replies

CCI Trading system + Range bars with NINJA 12 replies

What's the best system for trading range markets? 8 replies

How to get range of h/l on previous day's range? 1 reply

Attachments: Nb 10.0 range trading system
Exit Attachments

Nb 10.0 range trading system

  • #261
  • Oct 12, 2011 9:50pm Oct 12, 2011 9:50pm
Quoting nanningbob
In other words take 100 pip SL and then pretend you are recovering the SL. Interesting concept. I dont know the percentage of trades that may go 100+ pips down but then retrace and later make a profit. In other words I never have to make it up with a different trade. A different trade would mean I have a whole different set of parameters to meet to make a trade. I do know one thing the win percentage would go down and you would face having to have bigger wins to over come the 100 SL. So let us say your average win is 40 pips. You now need 2.5 wins...
exactly... you use a stop, so you get stopped out and then price goes where you needed. you don't use a stop, price someday goes on a runner hurting your account.

but.... if you can understand the concept of re-entering after a stop is hit instead of nedging, then you can understand why nedging is a joke to begin with since it IS closing trades. it doesn't pause anything, ever!

a sell closes a buy, and a buy closes a sell........ nedging is nothing more than a mindgame. welcome to the jungle.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #262
  • Oct 12, 2011 9:52pm Oct 12, 2011 9:52pm
For example there is this guying trying to get me to use his method of trading. The first trade I took I set up a pending sell just below a major support line. Price breaks support and goes down. Price moved to the exact point, took the trade and then shot back up above the line and headed for the SL. In other words I have to deal with the computer programming within MT4 dealers that are designed to take trades close to moves or SL or account margin calls, widening margins as price moves to TP line, etc. again. To me those are the things that make trading so hard, the odds are so stacked against you.
  • #263
  • Oct 12, 2011 10:10pm Oct 12, 2011 10:10pm
Quoting nanningbob
In other words take 100 pip SL and then pretend you are recovering the SL. Interesting concept. I dont know the percentage of trades that may go 100+ pips down but then retrace and later make a profit. In other words I never have to make it up with a different trade. A different trade would mean I have a whole different set of parameters to meet to make a trade. I do know one thing the win percentage would go down and you would face having to have bigger wins to over come the 100 SL. So let us say your average win is 40 pips. You now need 2.5 wins...
My example was if you had a predetermined amount of pips lost before a hedge trade ie 100. If you hedge at 100 and price retraces back to original trade, your still left with the hedge. Exact same as using a stop, then price retracing. If you don't have a predetermined amount of negative pips before hedging (fundamentals) well that would be a different strategy.

But I think if your strategy is to hedge at a set amount of pips every time, it may be easier just to use a stop, and enter the next trade as a recovery trade.
  • #264
  • Oct 12, 2011 10:23pm Oct 12, 2011 10:23pm
Quoting Frodog
My example was if you had a predetermined amount of pips lost before a hedge trade ie 100. If you hedge at 100 and price retraces back to original trade, your still left with the hedge. Exact same as using a stop, then price retracing. If you don't have a predetermined amount of negative pips before hedging (fundamentals) well that would be a different strategy.

But I think if your strategy is to hedge at a set amount of pips every time, it may be easier just to use a stop, and enter the next trade as a recovery trade.
you get bob's system better than he does himself. props to you. and you explained it well.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #265
  • Oct 12, 2011 10:28pm Oct 12, 2011 10:28pm
Quoting nanningbob
In other words take 100 pip SL and then pretend you are recovering the SL. Interesting concept. I dont know the percentage of trades that may go 100+ pips down but then retrace and later make a profit. In other words I never have to make it up with a different trade. A different trade would mean I have a whole different set of parameters to meet to make a trade. I do know one thing the win percentage would go down and you would face having to have bigger wins to over come the 100 SL. So let us say your average win is 40 pips. You now need 2.5 wins...
NB,

I played around with something that I called "return to sender" a few months back. Key idea is that once price moves 15 pips off of open price, it returns to that open price more likely than not. Basic contrarian trade.

I used 4 opens and 1 close. Japan open, Frankfurt open, London open, US open, London close. My success rate was just about 90% if I used a 105 pip stoploss. If I used no stoploss, then typically only 3-4 trades did not return to the open/close price within the month. This worked well on the euro/usd and the gbp/usd.

I added a pyramid function. At -30 pips I added a position, at -45 another at -60 yet another. Lot size was determined at 10% risk... if I lost all four trades, then it I would lose 10% of my account. With the stoploss I would typically double my account most months. But a couple of the months I would get badly clipped by a volatile market. Determining lot size as a percentage of account meant that you would never get a margin call, but if your trades went against you it might approach zero.

I tried to manage this with hedging, but found that any mechanical rule I followed created as many problems as it solved. If price movement was clean, then I won. But more often than not, price movement would move on both sides of the -105 pip line, sometimes as many as 50 times. Over time, the spreads became a concern, and the losses (say 10 pips or so) an even greater concern.

I though this system was too dangerous to trade live, and couldn't find a practical way to use the hedge.
Kill the ego, or it will kill the mission.
  • #266
  • Oct 12, 2011 10:31pm Oct 12, 2011 10:31pm
Quoting nubcake
exactly... you use a stop, so you get stopped out and then price goes where you needed. you don't use a stop, price someday goes on a runner hurting your account.

but.... if you can understand the concept of re-entering after a stop is hit instead of nedging, then you can understand why nedging is a joke to begin with since it IS closing trades. it doesn't pause anything, ever!

a sell closes a buy, and a buy closes a sell........ nedging is nothing more than a mindgame. welcome to the jungle.
Except you are ignoring the fact that we are trading ranging pairs here and they range very well. We have argued these points in another thread. Anyone is free to go there and argue these points.
  • #267
  • Oct 12, 2011 10:44pm Oct 12, 2011 10:44pm
Quoting nanningbob
Except you are ignoring the fact that we are trading ranging pairs here and they range very well. We have argued these points in another thread. Anyone is free to go there and argue these points.
the point was not about stops... it was about nedging. hence why the last thing i was talking about was nedging.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #268
  • Oct 12, 2011 10:46pm Oct 12, 2011 10:46pm
Quoting AaronWard
NB,

I played around with something that I called "return to sender" a few months back. Key idea is that once price moves 15 pips off of open price, it returns to that open price more likely than not. Basic contrarian trade.

I used 4 opens and 1 close. Japan open, Frankfurt open, London open, US open, London close. My success rate was just about 90% if I used a 105 pip stoploss. If I used no stoploss, then typically only 3-4 trades did not return to the open/close price within the month. This worked well on the euro/usd and the gbp/usd.

I...
You are range trading and the range is too tight. Any move outside the range destroys the concept, moves that stay inside work great.

The key to hedging is knowing when to unhedge it. You can not undo a hedge in a trending market. You have to wait for a ranging market to unhedge it. Unless you have a specific unhedging plan, hedging doesnt work or is extremely difficult to do. Until 10.0 and having a definition of a ranging market I didnt have a good plan to unhedge a hedge except to take my profits from other trades to BE. Now I have an area I can undo the hedge. Once you get into a ranging market, close one at the high and the other at the low. That cleans out the hedge go back to trading and you avoided a very bad trade.
  • #269
  • Oct 12, 2011 10:53pm Oct 12, 2011 10:53pm
Quoting nanningbob
In other words take 100 pip SL and then pretend you are recovering the SL. Interesting concept. I dont know the percentage of trades that may go 100+ pips down but then retrace and later make a profit. In other words I never have to make it up with a different trade. A different trade would mean I have a whole different set of parameters to meet to make a trade. I do know one thing the win percentage would go down and you would face having to have bigger wins to over come the 100 SL. So let us say your average win is 40 pips. You now need 2.5 wins...
The concept of recovery trading is If a trade is 100 pips down and I put a recovery trade on I only need 50 pips to break even. Even smaller if i go a little bigger lot ( do not double that is dangerous). In a SL you need to regain the full 100 pips in recovery you only need 50 that is the big advantage of recovery versus SL. That is why your win percentage is higher and why it is easier to overcome DD instead of SL。
  • #270
  • Oct 12, 2011 11:02pm Oct 12, 2011 11:02pm
Quoting nanningbob
The concept of recovery trading is If a trade is 100 pips down and I put a recovery trade on I only need 50 pips to break even. Even smaller if i go a little bigger lot ( do not double that is dangerous). In a SL you need to regain the full 100 pips in recovery you only need 50 that is the big advantage of recovery versus SL. That is why your win percentage is higher and why it is easier to overcome DD instead of SL。
you are completely blind to the point of what he is saying. forget the fact that he ever.... ever... said stop loss. just focus on what he is saying about nedging.

Quoting Frodog
My example was if you had a predetermined amount of pips lost before a hedge trade ie 100. If you hedge at 100 and price retraces back to original trade, your still left with the hedge. Exact same as using a stop, then price retracing. If you don't have a predetermined amount of negative pips before hedging (fundamentals) well that would be a different strategy.

But I think if your strategy is to hedge at a set amount of pips every time, it may be easier just to use a stop, and enter the next trade as a recovery trade.
you talk about hedging (nedging) to pause trades... have a think about what frodog has just said. then think about what you are doing when you nedge.

when it clicks you'll see clearer than ever before.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #271
  • Oct 12, 2011 11:11pm Oct 12, 2011 11:11pm
it seems that the key advantage of hedging is psychological, not mathematical. If you like ranging markets, you get caught in a trending market, and you hate taking a loss, then you can hedge until you get back to the trending market.

But some people will end up paying a high psychological price -- more positions to worry about and a continued sense of something not being resolved.

There is an actual monetary cost to hedging, but it is very small. It is the swap. With two positions open, you will always lose a little on the swap. You may have the spread on an additional position to pay for, but that depends on your subsequent strategy.

IMHO the decision to hedge should be based on "what is better for me" instead of "what is better". One key edge in forex is to to align your strategy with your psychological make up, not against. The actual cost of the hedge -- the swap-- is pretty close to irrelevant to most short term or medium term trades.
Kill the ego, or it will kill the mission.
  • #272
  • Oct 12, 2011 11:19pm Oct 12, 2011 11:19pm
Quoting AaronWard
it seems that the key advantage of hedging is psychological, not mathematical. If you like ranging markets, you get caught in a trending market, and you hate taking a loss, then you can hedge until you get back to the trending market.

But some people will end up paying a high psychological price -- more positions to worry about and a continued sense of something not being resolved.

There is an actual monetary cost to hedging, but it is very small. It is the swap. With two positions open, you will always lose a little on the swap. You may...
and he parted the curtains and peeked inside... and suddenly aaron saw, like a blind man after eye surgery, the world that lay hidden behind that curtain. it all made such sense, and the rush of power and knowledge almost knocked him off of his feet.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #273
  • Oct 12, 2011 11:25pm Oct 12, 2011 11:25pm
Quoting nanningbob
The concept of recovery trading is If a trade is 100 pips down and I put a recovery trade on I only need 50 pips to break even. Even smaller if i go a little bigger lot ( do not double that is dangerous). In a SL you need to regain the full 100 pips in recovery you only need 50 that is the big advantage of recovery versus SL. That is why your win percentage is higher and why it is easier to overcome DD instead of SL。
If you use a stop at 100pips and then reenter at the same lot size you will need 100pips to BE.

If you use a stop and then reenter at the same lot size the hedge would of been, you would then only need 50 pips to BE.

When closing a hedge you then reenter in the original direction, thus increasing original lot size.

If a stop was used, and you reentered at the equivalant hedge lot size, you would still BE at 50 pips.
  • #274
  • Oct 12, 2011 11:32pm Oct 12, 2011 11:32pm
Quoting AaronWard
it seems that the key advantage of hedging is psychological, not mathematical. If you like ranging markets, you get caught in a trending market, and you hate taking a loss, then you can hedge until you get back to the trending market.

But some people will end up paying a high psychological price -- more positions to worry about and a continued sense of something not being resolved.

There is an actual monetary cost to hedging, but it is very small. It is the swap. With two positions open, you will always lose a little on the swap. You may...

I have a theory of hedging and had a hedging demo trades going before the USA changed. The great part is I could trade with much larger lot sizes and my gains were quite large. I didnt need to watch fundamentals. I just needed to do a buy and a sell. When the USA market was done and prices were ranging I took out the profit at its high or low and let the other retrace and with a CT trade. The size of the CT trade was dependent on the move for the day. Dang that worked well. Was kind of fun to do. Used the 4H high low to get out and trading time was just a few minutes a day.
  • #275
  • Oct 12, 2011 11:38pm Oct 12, 2011 11:38pm
Sorry Nubcake but you are the first person I ever have banned from my threads. You dont have anything to contribute to this thread. I am sorry you are so brain locked you dont comprehend anything else but your little world. People come here for alternatives not to be bashed every time they say something.
  • #276
  • Oct 12, 2011 11:41pm Oct 12, 2011 11:41pm
Quoting nanningbob
[font=Arial]
I have a theory of hedging and had a hedging demo trades going before the USA changed. The great part is I could trade with much larger lot sizes and my gains were quite large. I didnt need to watch fundamentals. I just needed to do a buy and a sell. When the USA market was done and prices were ranging I took out the profit at its high or low and let the other retrace and with a CT trade. The size of the CT trade was dependent on the move for the day. Dang that worked well. Was kind of fun to do. Used the 4H high low to get out and...
Why don't you just change brokers? I belive Dukascopy allows hedging and allows American customers to play by European rules, provided they are not resident in the US.
Kill the ego, or it will kill the mission.
  • #277
  • Oct 12, 2011 11:47pm Oct 12, 2011 11:47pm
Quoting Frodog
If you use a stop at 100pips and then reenter at the same lot size you will need 100pips to BE.

If you use a stop and then reenter at the same lot size the hedge would of been, you would then only need 50 pips to BE.

When closing a hedge you then reenter in the original direction, thus increasing original lot size.

If a stop was used, and you reentered at the equivalant hedge lot size, you would still BE at 50 pips.
Yes, that is the understanding. 50 pips is easier to recovery than 100. The key is to reenter with some kind of skill. The bigger the DD the more CT trades you need to over come but you never have to recover the same distance back to 0. One of the things I am learning is I tried to recover using one or two trades. Now I am using smaller profit trades and reducing the DD lot size a piece at a time. The benefit of this is the margin usage goes down even though price may have just stalled somewhere.

If a stop was used you would need to double the lot size to BE at 50.
  • #278
  • Oct 12, 2011 11:51pm Oct 12, 2011 11:51pm
Quoting AaronWard
Why don't you just change brokers? I belive Dukascopy allows hedging and allows American customers to play by European rules, provided they are not resident in the US.
My experience with foreign brokers has not been good. One changed their swaps in the middle of a DD and ate up my profit in 3 weeks. I mean it was big. Another actually ran the price below 0 to get my margin to hit, computer program thing went out of control. I was going to publish pictures all over the net and FF but they gave me my money back to keep quiet. On top of that the cost of moving money form a foreign country to home is expensive. So I have not found one to my liking yet.
  • #279
  • Oct 13, 2011 1:00am Oct 13, 2011 1:00am
Quoting nanningbob
My experience with foreign brokers has not been good. One changed their swaps in the middle of a DD and ate up my profit in 3 weeks. I mean it was big. Another actually ran the price below 0 to get my margin to hit, computer program thing went out of control. I was going to publish pictures all over the net and FF but they gave me my money back to keep quiet. On top of that the cost of moving money form a foreign country to home is expensive. So I have not found one to my liking yet.
I am not here to promote brokers. But Dukascopy seems to be one of the few brokers that nobody hates. I don't have an account because you have to actually mail in documents to open your account.
Kill the ego, or it will kill the mission.
  • #280
  • Oct 13, 2011 6:40am Oct 13, 2011 6:40am
Quoting nanningbob
[font=Arial]
I have a theory of hedging and had a hedging demo trades going before the USA changed. The great part is I could trade with much larger lot sizes and my gains were quite large. I didnt need to watch fundamentals. I just needed to do a buy and a sell. When the USA market was done and prices were ranging I took out the profit at its high or low and let the other retrace and with a CT trade. The size of the CT trade was dependent on the move for the day. Dang that worked well. Was kind of fun to do. Used the 4H high low to get out and...
Dear bob,

I am interesting your hedging theory, could you share to us.
many FF trader not live in USA.
0 traders viewing now