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  • #801
  • Nov 27, 2009 6:15am Nov 27, 2009 6:15am
Quoting DXTrade
Neither... that's the indi Chris used and changed and was an indexed momentum indicator.
Chris_B knows more about this one... just tried to use it to filter the Trix
I see thanks a lot.
Now I'll try to track down Chris too. lol
  • #802
  • Nov 27, 2009 9:12am Nov 27, 2009 9:12am
Quoting 45Fxguy
I see thanks a lot.
Now I'll try to track down Chris too. lol
Hi...

that indy was SMI (Stochastic Momentum Index) but this file contains a bug

so you can use IndexedMomentumK...it's the same but it works..

My indy was just calling this indy to put the arrows..

Hope this helps
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 SMI.mq4   4 KB | 694 downloads
File Type: ex4 IndexedMomentumK.ex4   5 KB | 752 downloads
Market is like a puzzle, YOU have to fit the pieces!!
  • #803
  • Edited 12:13pm Nov 27, 2009 11:22am | Edited 12:13pm
Quoting Chris_B
Hi...

that indy was SMI (Stochastic Momentum Index) but this file contains a bug

so you can use IndexedMomentumK...it's the same but it works..

My indy was just calling this indy to put the arrows..

Hope this helps
Thanks for the quick reply Chris!
Just goes to show everyone, no such thing as a dumb question esp if it gets posted in the right thread.

A few more quick questions, I think.
Does DxTrade Nitro indi need either one or both of these indis in the indis folder to work properly or is the code for them already included and built into the one, "DxTrade Nitro indi"?
When you say SMI has a bug, exactly what do you mean?
I didn't see any errors or warnings when compiling the SMI code you uploaded.
Does that mean the "DxTrade Nitro indi", has a bug in it too?

If so, wonder if DXTrade would mind reworking his indi to call for the IndexedMomentumK.ex4 instead?
But read his post earlier about his laptop crash so may not be a good time to ask him about that right now.

Can someone remind me what Renko brick sizes is supposed to be used when trading Nitro style?
& Has anyone tired using ATR to determine renko brick sizes to use yet?

Maybe one more thing Chris, would you recommend the defaut SMI settings in DXtrade's nitro dashboard be used in the other indi you posted, & if so on which renko brick size & with or without wicks, would you recommend?
  • #804
  • Nov 27, 2009 5:00pm Nov 27, 2009 5:00pm
Quoting 45Fxguy
Thanks for the quick reply Chris!
Just goes to show everyone, no such thing as a dumb question esp if it gets...
I will try to recode the Indi... just give me some time.
If I remember right the SMI is coded in my indi... but not sure anymore.
I just remember that I let the smi away later as it didn't help anything in getting better signals.
Bricks are 10 Pips
"The only successful substitute for brains is silence."
  • #805
  • Nov 28, 2009 3:26am Nov 28, 2009 3:26am
Quoting DXTrade
I will try to recode the Indi... just give me some time.
If I remember right the SMI is coded in my indi... but not sure anymore.
I just remember that I let the smi away later as it didn't help anything in getting better signals.
Bricks are 10 Pips
No hurry, as you know someone else brought up the original question on the comparison of your two indis which on the surface they look identical, and if one has a bug in it that needs to be fixed probably wouldn't be a bad idea to do so since a lot of new trades maybe trying to use it.
PS: Below is another copy of message I sent you via PM.
-----
You must already know this since you made the indicator, but I've been trading renko charts pretty much exclusively since last summer & noticed that all the best indis on renko charts give the same entries anyway if the right settings are found for them.
So that really only leaves us with ATR & Mom as a filter & perhaps Lou's AM renko indi which gives you an idea about how fast rekno bars are being made if scalping, & Lou's new Renko S/R indi which I think is great for finding open spaces between S/R, and breakouts.
I've only recently started to understand the usefulness of ATR with renko and noticed that you placed two ATR periods into your DxTrade info 7 indi.
Was wondering if you would please explain why you did this & how to make the most use of it, period setting etc for 5, 10, 15, 20 pip rekno bricks etc.
Also was wondering are you still trading on renko charts, & if not why?

Later,
45
jt in nc
PS: Have a great weekend.
I'll attach the indi here so if anyone else wants to see it on their chart they won't have to comb through the old C4 thread etc to find it.
Attached File(s)
File Type: ex4 DXTrade Info v7.ex4   12 KB | 752 downloads
  • #806
  • Nov 28, 2009 2:13pm Nov 28, 2009 2:13pm
Quoting Chris_B
Probably you don't know...but Tudorgirl was a fake...and her results were a fake too...and I have serious doubts that Edgetrader's Nitro was reality...
FxFish repaints the past...is totally useless..but if you want to try it you can do it...
Trust me...no indy can filter renko fakes..find an indy that can "predict a 10pips move" and I will pay you to have it
OK guys, I have a question: why not keep it simple? By that I mean, if you look at any Renko (10) chart, it shows that you could buy anytime you have a blue bar, and sell any time you have a red bar, and make a killing. No other indicators needed, no multiple time-frames, just the renko bars.

Now because it looks so simple that usually means I'm missing something. So what am I missing?

If you open a 1H GBP/USD and put "RenkoFX" custom indicator on the chart, you see perfect trends (with a few mixed bars) that would net you hundreds and thousands of pips simply by buying blue and selling red.

So, who can help a Renko-Newbie understand how these bars are drawn and why it would not make sense to keep it simple?
  • #807
  • Nov 28, 2009 4:59pm Nov 28, 2009 4:59pm
Quoting 45Fxguy
No hurry, as you know someone else brought up the original question on the comparison of your two indis which on the surface they look identical, and if one has a bug in it that needs to be fixed probably wouldn't be a bad idea to do so since a lot of new trades maybe trying to use it.
PS: Below is another copy of message I sent you via PM.
-----
You must already know this since you made the indicator, but...
Hi guys

the problem with the indicators I made last summer is that we had 2 systems... C4 and Nitro.
So only the latest of my indicators are making sense on Renko charts as it is a completely different way of coding.
I still have most of my templates still on Renko as I like the timeless way of clear candles.
And Nitro... fake or not... is in it's basic idea and slightly adapted... still working fine for me.

ATR is the best example of the Renko limits: there is no range on renko charts... or, explained differently... the range of a renko candle is the brick size, so always the same.
That's why ATR on Renko is useless and is showing always the same value for any ATR. The mentioned indi was still for the guys trading C4.

And Dreamliner... you are absolutely right!!!!
This is valid for "normal" charts as well btw... the simpler and cleaner a chart the better. I sometimes see charts here in FF where you don't even see the PA anymore and the chart looks like a painting of a drunken Picasso.
That is over-analysing at it's best and you will never be able to take a decision as 15 of the 30 indis on the charts are telling you the opposite of the 15 others.

Take care guys...

Uli
"The only successful substitute for brains is silence."
  • #808
  • Nov 28, 2009 7:13pm Nov 28, 2009 7:13pm

Hey Dreamliner,

I'm not trying to complicate trading on renko charts, I know it can be as simple of trading off of every 2.5 to 3 renko brick if your not trying to scalp, or right after a renko turning point as you said. Guess I'm just trying to fill in a few missing puzzle pieces of the where C4 transitioned in to Nitro. I think if you want to try using the RenkoFx indi on one hour charts etc you may want to look at this short thread if you haven't already. http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=100785
I think the main problem with the indi is finding the right brick sizes to best represent the time frame you want to be trading off of with it, but as the thread states best to put it, and that goes for any other renko indi, script, or renko chart generating ea on 1 min chart. So how do you get a good representation of a 1 hr chart off a 1 min chart?
Use ATR, or one of DXtrade info indis to display ATR in plain numbers X1.
Problem with the ReknoFx indi is that it's input is in points instead of pips.
I've & others I'm sure have messed with indi inputs on more than one occasion and has as yet not been able to get an accurate representation as like what we now have as a true renko chart in MT4. I think a point is equal to 100 pips if memory serves, but that didn't seem to help me very much last time I tried the RenkoFx indi. &Now that I know how to get renko charts into a backtest simulator I have even less use for this renko indi, but if you or anyone else manages to get the RenkoFx indi to work properly I'd still like to hear about it.

PS:
DxTrade your saying ATR stays the same for any two different periods on renko charts right, & thus has no real value on renko charts whatsoever?

later,
45




Quoting Dreamliner
OK guys, I have a question: why not keep it simple? By that I mean, if you look at any Renko (10) chart, it shows that you could buy anytime you have a blue bar, and sell any time you have a red bar, and make a killing. No other indicators needed, no multiple time-frames, just the renko bars.

Now because it looks so simple that usually means I'm missing something. So what am I missing?

If you open a 1H GBP/USD and put "RenkoFX" custom indicator on the chart, you see perfect trends (with a few mixed bars) that would net you hundreds and thousands...
  • #809
  • Nov 28, 2009 7:45pm Nov 28, 2009 7:45pm
Quoting 45Fxguy


PS:
DxTrade your saying ATR stays the same for any two different periods on renko charts right, & thus has no real value on renko charts whatsoever?

later,
45

ATR is "Average True Range" = the candle size of the last x candles.
That is to measure the market speed and activity.
A Renko candle has always the range you give it... 10 pips in my case.
So the range is always 10 whatever period you choose.
To measure ATR on a Renko chart you need a different calculation of bricks per 5 minutes or so while calculating the renko brick formation time.
Useless in my opinion as you can then use directly normal candles.
"The only successful substitute for brains is silence."
  • #810
  • Nov 28, 2009 9:39pm Nov 28, 2009 9:39pm
Quoting Dreamliner
OK guys, I have a question: why not keep it simple? By that I mean, if you look at any Renko (10) chart, it shows that you could buy anytime you have a blue bar, and sell any time you have a red bar, and make a killing. No other indicators needed, no multiple time-frames, just the renko bars.

Now because it looks so simple that usually means I'm missing something. So what am I missing?

If you open a 1H GBP/USD and put "RenkoFX" custom indicator on the chart, you see perfect trends (with a few mixed bars) that would net you hundreds and thousands...
Dreamliner, you are quite riight, all the indicators do in renko is confirm what the blocks are telling you, As an exercise try playing with all the indicators on 1 chart, eg indexed momentum, stochastic, macd, etc, play with the settings and they will all tell show you in the 1 block that the direction has changed and give an entry signal.

The key with renko is to confirm that their is intensity ( or momentum) in the direction of the movement. Otherwise you can get lots of false and expensive signals and getting onto the trends is not easy if the market is choppy.

This is where I think a volume and time related ratio indicator (against a moving average for the block size) would be better but other than wattarattar (?) which doesn't work well with renko I don't know of a volume / intensity indicator that does this.

If anyone knows of an indicator that does this or wants to code something I think I can specify what I think will work.

I also think fibs and resistance line may be more relevant with renko for looking for reversal and momentum

rgds

Peter
  • #811
  • Nov 29, 2009 12:33am Nov 29, 2009 12:33am
Thank you, I guess I'll just have to watch this live, because looking at the charts you simply cannot go wrong by buying on blue and selling on red. I know there has to be more to it.

Quoting 45Fxguy
[color=#000000][font=Times New Roman][font=verdana]
Hey Dreamliner,

I'm not trying to complicate trading on renko charts, I know it can be as simple of trading off of every 2.5 to 3 renko brick if your not trying to scalp, or right after a renko turning point as you said....
  • #812
  • Nov 29, 2009 12:40am Nov 29, 2009 12:40am
I still don't get it, because looking at the Renko charts you don't need any indicators at all, ever. Buy blue, sell red. Obviously there is more to it than this, I just haven't had a chance to watch them live. Will do that Monday and I'm sure will have a whole different understanding of Renko charts.

Quoting peterke
Dreamliner, you are quite riight, all the indicators do in renko is confirm what the blocks are telling you, As an exercise try playing with all the indicators on 1 chart, eg indexed momentum, stochastic, macd, etc, play with the settings and they will all tell show you in the 1 block that the direction has changed and give an entry signal.

The key with renko is to confirm that their is intensity ( or momentum) in the direction of the movement. Otherwise you can get lots of false and expensive signals and getting onto the trends is not easy if...
  • #813
  • Nov 29, 2009 1:09am Nov 29, 2009 1:09am
Quoting Dreamliner
I still don't get it, because looking at the Renko charts you don't need any indicators at all, ever. Buy blue, sell red. Obviously there is more to it than this, I just haven't had a chance to watch them live. Will do that Monday and I'm sure will have a whole different understanding of Renko charts.
You need to read or test a bit what Renko is.
A brick is only red or blue once it is finished... not before.
So if you have let's say 5 red bricks down and a 10 pip brick size to get a blue brick PA has to move 20 pips up before it is forming a blue one.
If you enter long there you can have another 20 pips down before forming a red brick again and that costs you 20 and some pips. That makes 30 pips range for every brick before it is formed and closed. Lot of stuff.
So you need a whatsoever confirmation before deciding in which direction it goes next.
And depending on the pair a 20-40 pip move as confirmation can be a lot and may be over fast.
You can obviously reduce the brick size... but then you are back to a tick chart after a while.

Just food for thought
"The only successful substitute for brains is silence."
  • #814
  • Edited 2:37am Nov 30, 2009 2:27am | Edited 2:37am
Quoting DXTrade
ATR is "Average True Range" = the candle size of the last x candles.
That is to measure the market speed and activity.
A Renko candle has always the range you give it... 10 pips in my case.
So the range is always 10 whatever period you choose.
To measure ATR on a Renko chart you need a different calculation of bricks per 5 minutes or so while calculating the renko brick formation time.
Useless in my opinion as you can then use directly normal candles.

----------------------------------
This is how ATR works per MT4 help files:

Average True Range

Average True Range Technical Indicator (ATR) is an indicator that shows volatility of the market. It was introduced by Welles Wilder in his book "New concepts in technical trading systems". This indicator has been used as a component of numerous other indicators and trading systems ever since.
Average True Range can often reach a high value at the bottom of the market after a sheer fall in prices occasioned by panic selling. Low values of the indicator are typical for the periods of sideways movement of long duration which happen at the top of the market and during consolidation. Average True Range can be interpreted according to the same principles as other volatility indicators. The principle of forecasting based on this indicator can be worded the following way: the higher the value of the indicator, the higher the probability of a trend change; the lower the indicator’s value, the weaker the trend’s movement is.
Calculation

True Range is the greatest of the following three values:

 

  1. difference between the current maximum and minimum (high and low);
  2. difference between the previous closing price and the current maximum;
  3. difference between the previous closing price and the current minimum.

--------------------------

I see some aspect of what your saying ATR is in this definition of ATR, but when I put two totally different ATR indi periods, I'm not seeing getting the current brick size value back on either one, & both show different numbers.
Could you look at ATR with two different periods on renko charts again?
This screen shot shows what the current ATR value is marked by the red horizontal lines. This is on 15 pip renko brick charts and neither ATR value is 15. If I'm missing something, please let me know DXTrade.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: atr on renko charts.gif Size: 21 KB
  • #815
  • Nov 30, 2009 2:50am Nov 30, 2009 2:50am
Quoting 45Fxguy
----------------------------------
This is how ATR works per MT4 help files:

Average True Range

Average True Range Technical Indicator (ATR) is an...
What Renko do you use?
On a "real" renko there is obviously the high-close and low-close always 10 pips on a 10 pip brick!

See pic... atr(14) and atr(21) have both the same values of 14... and this value does never change.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: dxt.gif Size: 39 KB
"The only successful substitute for brains is silence."
  • #816
  • Nov 30, 2009 2:53am Nov 30, 2009 2:53am
Quoting 45Fxguy

True Range is the greatest of the following three values:

 

  1. difference between the current maximum and minimum (high and low);
  2. difference between the previous closing price and the current maximum;
  3. difference between the previous closing price and the current minimum.

BTW... the above definition is the answer you wanted.
What is the max and min of a 10 pip Renko candle?
10 Pips... right?
"The only successful substitute for brains is silence."
  • #817
  • Nov 30, 2009 2:58am Nov 30, 2009 2:58am
Quoting DXTrade
What Renko do you use?
On a "real" renko there is obviously the high-close and low-close always 10 pips on a 10 pip brick!

See pic... atr(14) and atr(21) have both the same values of 14... and this value does never change.
The one used in my screen shot is called renkoashi_script, which I think I found some where on the TSD forum. It does a pretty good job of making renko charts for back test etc. Haven't used it that much on forward test yet, but am trying it out more today, but think I've seen same thing on the commercial renko charts too, but maybe your right, the difference could be in the scripts, I just double checked as of right now eurjpy ATR values between atr 4 & 14 are almost exactly the same, but are 26 & not the brick sized value of 15.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: atr on renko charts 2.gif Size: 15 KB
  • #818
  • Nov 30, 2009 3:19am Nov 30, 2009 3:19am
Wonder if ATR can be used to trade on renko charts this way?
I know it looks kinda messy though.
But maybe one of your DxTrade info indis could help clean up the chart quite a bit though, if it works.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: atr on renko charts 3.gif Size: 23 KB
  • #819
  • Nov 30, 2009 4:31am Nov 30, 2009 4:31am
Quoting 45Fxguy
Wonder if ATR can be used to trade on renko charts this way?
I know it looks kinda messy though.
But maybe one of your DxTrade info indis could help clean up the chart quite a bit though, if it works.
Well... I put my version 1.7 on the Renko... using a commercial Renko chart.
And the values are always the same.

Just trust me... ATR on real Renkos doesn't work... ever.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: dxt.gif Size: 21 KB
"The only successful substitute for brains is silence."
  • #820
  • Edited 4:57am Nov 30, 2009 4:45am | Edited 4:57am
Quoting DXTrade
Well... I put my version 1.7 on the Renko... using a commercial Renko chart.
And the values are always the same.

Just trust me... ATR on real Renkos doesn't work... ever.
Seems to work fine on renko_ashi chart script, there must be a major difference in the way they are coded, &/or generate the renko charts.
Don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but think you maybe over looking something.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: atr on renko charts 4.gif Size: 27 KB
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