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Forex Mentors - The Best Investment You Can Make?

  • #21
  • Aug 2, 2009 2:24pm Aug 2, 2009 2:24pm
Quoting pipmutt
No sorry, I was referring to fxtrader29's trades, unless he and Wayne are the same person?

I'm really not going to get into a debate about any particular vendor on this site, it usually turns into an inconclusive argument
No, I am not Wayne, but I would love to have his bank accounts.
  • #22
  • Aug 2, 2009 2:42pm Aug 2, 2009 2:42pm
Quoting pipmutt


....and with a Sharpe ratio to put it into context if possible.
The reason I agreed to be mentored by Jacko is that I didn't give a fck about all the BS about counting pips and Sharpe ratios blah, blah, blah.
I was convinced by the LIVE TRADING that he did at DailyFX for six months. No photoshopped accounts. no retrospective trading, no BS anywhere. It was all LIVE TRADES. And the results were summarised here http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost.php?p=1431044&postcount=85

BEFORE I joined Jacko's group, I researched and spreadsheeeted EVERY one of his trade and recommendation in his posts at the DailyFX site and here at Forex Factory to check them and they are right. There is no BS in there
Based on his sensational success rate and that they were LIVE TRADES with no BS in them, I was prepared to join his group, because I wanted to copy his trades and learn from a winner.
AFTER becoming a member of his group, I researched and spreadsheeted EVERY trade and recommendation in his blog to right up to today. He is a winner trader in a big way. And now I am on my way to getting there too. And I don't give a fck what anyone thinks about that.
  • #23
  • Aug 2, 2009 3:20pm Aug 2, 2009 3:20pm
Quoting fxtrader29
I didn't give a fck about all the BS about counting pips and Sharpe ratios blah, blah, blah.
Right, well that certainly explains a lot
  • #24
  • Aug 2, 2009 8:24pm Aug 2, 2009 8:24pm
Quoting pipmutt
Right, well that certainly explains a lot
I am a CPA accountant and I have clients come into my office every day telling me how good their business is and using every financial Ratio known to man to try and prove it to me. The favourite ratio is the asset loan to valuation (LVR) ratio. Usually it is because they want me to assist them in selling their business.
I always ask them two questions:
Is it cash-flow positive?
Is it profitable?
If the answer to either of those questions is NO, then the business is dying or dead. Every thing else, including any ratio you want to show me, is BS

When I reviewed Jacko's trading figures, it is spinning off enormous amounts of cash flow and the profits are stunning. It is even more sensational when you see that he never risks more than 2% on any trade.
  • #25
  • Aug 3, 2009 12:15am Aug 3, 2009 12:15am
Quoting fxtrader29
I am a CPA accountant and I have clients come into my office every day telling me how good their business is and using every financial Ratio known to man to try and prove it to me. The favourite ratio is the asset loan to valuation (LVR) ratio. Usually it is because they want me to assist them in selling their business.
I always ask them two questions:
Is it cash-flow positive?
Is it profitable?
If the answer to either of those questions is NO, then the business is dying or dead. Every thing else, including any ratio you want to show me, is BS...

The same accountant who tells clients who have a potentially non-viable business to "....pull yourself together, stop feeling sorry for yourself and get back to work..."? Hmmm....

Sharpe ratio is used to calculate and assess risk adjusted performance and is very relevant in this business, it can reveal serious weaknesses and flaws, whereas LVR not so much.

If counting the positive pips of retrospective trades and ignoring risk floats your boat then what can I say, we're obviously on a different page!

This is a pointless discussion so I'll just say 'good luck', the probability is you're going to need it
  • #26
  • Aug 3, 2009 12:24am Aug 3, 2009 12:24am
Quoting pipmutt
Sharpe ratio is used to calculate and assess risk adjusted performance and is very relevant in this business, it can reveal serious weaknesses and flaws, whereas LVR not so much.
Did most/all the hedge funds that blew up recently use the sharpe ratio?
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #27
  • Aug 3, 2009 12:34am Aug 3, 2009 12:34am
Quoting LasVahGoose
Did most/all the hedge funds that blew up recently use the sharpe ratio?
Quite probably, they like to paint a rosy picture regardless of what's happening in reality

Sharpe, like any other number crunching statistic, can be manipulated to make it look pretty much any way the presenter wants it to look. However, if used correctly it presents an accurate and realistic picture, like I say it can expose some serious weaknesses and flaws and it would have done so in your hedge fund example.
  • #28
  • Aug 3, 2009 4:24am Aug 3, 2009 4:24am
Quoting gbppip
What can a mentor teach you that you do not already know?

 

  1. Price either goes up or down.
  2. No one knows what will happen next.
  3. Keep losses small and let winners run.
  4. POSITION SIZE = RISK / STOP LOSS
  5. The reason you entered has no bearing on the outcome of your trade.
  6. You can control the size of your loss (skill) but you can't control the size of your win (luck).
  7. You need to know when to pick up your chips and cash them in.

If I understand correctly, what you're saying is that it's impossible to forecast which way price will move ("no one knows what will happen next"), so we might as well use random entries ("the reason you entered has no bearing on the outcome of your trade"), but as long as you take high R:R trades ("keep losses small and let winners run") and apply the formula "POSITION SIZE = RISK / STOP LOSS", you're guaranteed to be long-term profitable.......

Well, if forex was this easy, 99% of retail traders would (potentially) be profitable. Why? Read my comments here. This post is also worth a read, IMHO.
  • #29
  • Aug 3, 2009 4:42am Aug 3, 2009 4:42am
Quoting hanover
If I understand correctly, what you're saying is that it's impossible to forecast which way price will move ("no one knows what will happen next"), so we might as well use random entries ("the reason you entered has no bearing on the outcome of your trade"), but as long as you take high R:R trades ("keep losses small and let winners run") and apply the formula "POSITION SIZE = RISK / STOP LOSS", you're guaranteed to be long-term profitable.......
I think the operative word was 'knows', the point being that everything is based on probability not certainty, therefore I don't think you can say entries might just as well be random if we don't know what will happen.
  • #30
  • Aug 3, 2009 8:57am Aug 3, 2009 8:57am
There is a fine line between Mentor and Salesman. Mentor usually takes on a pupils with potential; someone they guide, without any monatary value. Salesmen are are in the business of profit. They have a product and intend on making money from it. I usually frown upon mentors selling their services but, if you are making good money and it works, by all means, continue doing what makes you profits.
  • #31
  • Aug 3, 2009 8:09pm Aug 3, 2009 8:09pm
Quoting Jhig
There is a fine line between Mentor and Salesman. Mentor usually takes on a pupils with potential; someone they guide, without any monatary value. Salesmen are are in the business of profit. They have a product and intend on making money from it. I usually frown upon mentors selling their services but, if you are making good money and it works, by all means, continue doing what makes you profits.
A mentor is a experienced trader with a successful record of trading over an extended period of time.
A saleman has none of those attributes.

Jacko satisfies the first description.
  • #32
  • Aug 4, 2009 4:31am Aug 4, 2009 4:31am
Quoting Jhig
There is a fine line between Mentor and Salesman. Mentor usually takes on a pupils with potential; someone they guide, without any monatary value. Salesmen are are in the business of profit. They have a product and intend on making money from it. I usually frown upon mentors selling their services but, if you are making good money and it works, by all means, continue doing what makes you profits.
I agree. I think anyone who teaches people on a mass scale is simply making a commercial venture out of it, they want to get as many subscribers as possible regardless of their suitability, aptitude, or potential for success. They are probably well aware that only a very small percentage of their customers are going to make it in this business yet they take on all-comers because it generates an income for them, it's their business.

A true mentor, on the other hand, tends to be more selective about who he is prepared to teach as he doesn't want to waste his (or his pupil's) time. He usually mentors on a one-to-one basis. His pay-off as a mentor doesn't come from how much revenue he generates from mentoring, it comes from having a genuine interest in seeing his pupil succeed and being instrumental in that success.
  • #33
  • Aug 5, 2009 2:46pm Aug 5, 2009 2:46pm
Quoting fxtrader29
I agreed to be mentored by Jacko because I wanted to become a better trader. I joined because he has PROVED to be a consistent winner over a long time. And I admit, I wanted his signals. Why not, I made all my joining fee back in my first week.
I won 10 times my joining fee in two weeks.
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost.php?p=2697142&postcount=7203[font=Verdana][size=2]...
Top trading fxtrader29. I agree absolutely with you about the value of having a mentor show you how to avoid the pitfalls and traps that all newbies fall into.
  • #34
  • Aug 5, 2009 11:27pm Aug 5, 2009 11:27pm
Hi Folks,

I am from Australia and a new member to FF though I must admit that I have been following several threads on various forums here for the last year or so. It is interesting to note your discussions in this particular thread with regards to having a person to provide guidance with Forex trading and Wayne Jacksons name was mentioned as being one of those people. I am not allowed to pm anybody as yet since I have just been registered with FF and hence am not able to contact him. I am desperately in need of some assistance especially since I have been made redundant in my job and need to be able to start generating some income pretty soon. At the moment I am going through some of Jacko's posts and absorbing the information therein. I have been learning to trade over the last year and have studied various Forex courses and also got my fingers burnt in the process. I have paper traded, demo traded prior to trading live but somehow the results were never the same when I traded live. I seriously need some assistance, can somebody help?

Thanks in advance
  • #35
  • Aug 5, 2009 11:57pm Aug 5, 2009 11:57pm
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=27286

link to his blog (which he doesn't actively promote at all here on ff) from where you can the contact him via email is in his signature...I would also recommend reading james 16 thread, no brainer trades and strat's long term stress free trading...they are all here on FF...

good luck
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #36
  • Aug 6, 2009 12:06am Aug 6, 2009 12:06am
Quoting pipmutt

A true mentor, on the other hand, tends to be more selective about who he is prepared to teach as he doesn't want to waste his (or his pupil's) time. He usually mentors on a one-to-one basis. His pay-off as a mentor doesn't come from how much revenue he generates from mentoring, it comes from having a genuine interest in seeing his pupil succeed and being instrumental in that success.
precisely..and in my experience Jacko (Wayne Jackson) fits this description 100000000%. There are different ways for the mentor to communicate and interact with his prtoeges however...therein lies the difference, imho, between for example Jim (J16) and Wayne(Jacko) - but the underlying core of what they do and what they aim to accomplish is that to help other traders become more proficient and have more success.

On a side note - I still strongly believe the threads in question should be restored to where they were prior to the Commercial Forum being opened...it would be a massive loss to the FF Community if these 2 individuals should feel they are not welcome here anymore...but aagain...just my .02.
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #37
  • Aug 6, 2009 12:50am Aug 6, 2009 12:50am
Quoting coscorp
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=27286

link to his blog (which he doesn't actively promote at all here on ff) from where you can the contact him via email is in his signature...I would also recommend reading james 16 thread, no brainer trades and strat's long term stress free trading...they are all here on FF...

good luck
Thanks for the link and yep I sure need the luck

Cheers
  • #38
  • Aug 6, 2009 1:15am Aug 6, 2009 1:15am
Quoting coscorp
precisely..and in my experience Jacko (Wayne Jackson) fits this description 100000000%.
Hardly, read the comparison again and you'll see the dissimilarities.....


I think anyone who teaches people on a mass scale is simply making a commercial venture out of it, they want to get as many subscribers as possible regardless of their suitability, aptitude, or potential for success. They are probably well aware that only a very small percentage of their customers are going to make it in this business yet they take on all-comers because it generates an income for them, it's their business.

A true mentor, on the other hand, tends to be more selective about who he is prepared to teach as he doesn't want to waste his (or his pupil's) time. He usually mentors on a one-to-one basis. His pay-off as a mentor doesn't come from how much revenue he generates from mentoring, it comes from having a genuine interest in seeing his pupil succeed and being instrumental in that success.
  • #39
  • Edited 3:58am Aug 6, 2009 2:41am | Edited 3:58am
I beg to differ....I don't see how one can assert that an individual that trades with the volume he does can actually be interested in making less than 2 dollars a day...(let me put it in a different perspective to help clarify further...he trades USD2000 and above a PIP..thus to make 700 USD (THE YEARLY FEE)...takes him approximately 1/3 of a pip....) and trust me...he's made more than that....

we than also have the cost of the international sms service he uses...and more often than not he sends out multiple one's...so he is doing it for free...and I'm purposely leaving aside what HIS time may be worth (care to make an estimate?) as he answers each and every email in a timely manner and gives us insights on what he believes will happen...which alone are worth far more what his annual dues are...but thats just me

also to my knowledge the groups are quite small....thus the "mass scale" bit goes out the window as well....and to put that further into perspective...off the top of my head..to make the same amount of money Jacko made from 1 (one) trade) he would have to have well over 8000 (eighthousand) subscribers...to my knowledge the 2 groups combined total approx 0.5% of that number....so I must ask yet again...what "business" is Jacko in to warrant the presence of his thread in the Commercial Forum and further to warrant him having to put up with individuals second guessing his motives and intentions?


dunno....I think it's only correct that I help pay for the instument that allows people like Jacko and Jim get their thoughts to me in a timely manner....it's an individual choice....
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #40
  • Aug 6, 2009 5:01am Aug 6, 2009 5:01am
Quoting coscorp
we than also have the cost of the international sms service he uses...and more often than not he sends out multiple one's...so he is doing it for free...and I'm purposely leaving aside what HIS time may be worth (care to make an estimate?) as he answers each and every email in a timely manner and gives us insights on what he believes will happen...which alone are worth far more what his annual dues are...but thats just me

also to my knowledge the groups are quite small....thus the "mass scale" bit goes out the window as well....


dunno....I...
Well as a business he obviously has to pay his overhead and turn a profit, and as a consumer you obviously can't expect to get something for nothing.

I'm not debating whether what he offers is good value or not, I'm just pointing out the differences between a mentor (in the traditional sense) and a trader training business.

From a moral standpoint is it ethical to sell a product knowing that in all probability the majority of people buying it will not benefit in the long term, in fact they're quite likely to lose money. Unfortunately in business moral considerations rarely feature when it comes to selling something, especially in this business.

I'm not particularly impressed by the little bit I have seen, or convinced his offering is any better or worse than the dozens of other trader training blogs around the net, but fortunately I'm not in the market for training so it doesn't really affect me.

You pays your money and you takes your choice, if it works for you then great!


As far as the level of volume anyone trades I couldn't say without seeing broker statements, it's all relative anyway. But if as you say he's trading in clips of above 20 million presumably with a true ECN then it brings even more into question whether his strategies would be equally effective or even suitable for someone trading micro lots with a dealing desk bucket shop. (I think you kind of shot yourself in the foot with that one!)
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