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  • #1,621
  • Apr 23, 2025 6:34am Apr 23, 2025 6:34am
I am follwing you. I wish you the best in endeavors.
.
  • #1,622
  • Apr 24, 2025 11:30am Apr 24, 2025 11:30am
Quoting JPworks
{quote} Very interesting, would you kindly mind sharing your excel sheet. Thank you. JP
Hey, do you still trade AMT. I would like to exchange some thoughts on it. Did you manage to do analysis, I can help you in creating one.
  • #1,623
  • Apr 24, 2025 2:15pm Apr 24, 2025 2:15pm
Quoting Krw
Everything begins with the book 'Mind Over Markets'. Read. Take notes. Reread. Write notes. Reread. Then the 'Value Based Power Trading' book. Read. Take notes. Reread. Write notes. Reread. Some things like the LDB are interesting but unneccessary. The CME pits are all gone, with all trading digital. Volume can be aquired in real-time now. But even for FX I believe tick volume is fine to track in its place. I have never seen growing volume that didn't also include growing tick volume. And really that's not so big a deal because it is VALUE that...
That is 100% correct, could we discuss a bit more about it.
  • #1,624
  • Apr 24, 2025 2:20pm Apr 24, 2025 2:20pm
Quoting Krw
The share markets have been getting blasted. Notice the TPOs, Ticks, and Volume are all pretty heavy. TFF is poor and volatility has picked up, and for the past 20 days it has been steadily increasing. TPOs A/B are skewed more than 4-1 favoring the upside with 1 distribution today. It is true we are trending down nastily so that could be overlooked. It is impossible to call a bottom but this might be worth a nibble here. Short term bounce? {image}
Very nice analysis, what do you use for determining RE(Range Extension). In MOM it is stated that Range extension is based on MAX value from difference between High and IB High, Low and IB Low. Is that true or?
  • #1,625
  • Apr 25, 2025 3:05am Apr 25, 2025 3:05am
Quoting bignuts
Is anyone still trading these method? I'm building my own spreadsheet and testing the data against cisco website (https://web.archive.org/web/20110621...planation.html) I find difference in calculating the POC when there's multiple TPO with the same max length. For example looking at the examples in the url, the meta profile of 2007 01 09 has this profile: Trade Date 20070109 Number of Prices: 45 1 142500 1 D 2 142475 2 BD 3 142450 2 BD 4 142425 2 BD 5 142400 3 BCD 6 142375 4 BCDN 7 142350 5 BCDEN 8 142325...
Try to hit me up, I will help you in creating one
  • #1,626
  • Apr 26, 2025 6:04am Apr 26, 2025 6:04am
  •  amvt
  • Joined Feb 2025 | Status: Developer by Choice Trader by Heart | 202 Posts
Quoting JPworks
I am follwing you. I wish you the best in endeavors. .
Thank You So Much JP! I have a lot more plans to incorporate different types of analysis/techniques to the AMVT model. I have to first perfect my own technique and then I will explain how and what I use to get the results I get. It's a lot of work left, but seeing you reply to my post made my day! It's a motivating to keep posting more. See you in the next discussion
— Developed by MMQ
  • #1,627
  • Apr 26, 2025 6:22am Apr 26, 2025 6:22am
  •  amvt
  • Joined Feb 2025 | Status: Developer by Choice Trader by Heart | 202 Posts
Quoting Rokica1986
{quote} Very nice analysis, what do you use for determining RE(Range Extension). In MOM it is stated that Range extension is based on MAX value from difference between High and IB High, Low and IB Low. Is that true or?
Hi Rokica, as I also use RE in my analysis, allow me to explain in my own perspective how I calculate RE. For me, Range Extensions are new highs or new lows, after the IB. Basically, in a day, how many times the market extended its range. In other words, it means how many times in a day, market created newer highs or newer lows. There are a number of ways to calculate this, If you're interested in my own method, I mainly use the following code:

' For the first initialBalancePeriods bars, simply update the current high and low.
If currentPeriod <= initialBalancePeriods Then
If ws.Cells(i, 4).Value > currentPeriodHigh Then currentPeriodHigh = ws.Cells(i, 4).Value
If ws.Cells(i, 5).Value < currentPeriodLow Then currentPeriodLow = ws.Cells(i, 5).Value
Else
' After initial balance periods, count an extension each time the current bar creates a new high or low.
If ws.Cells(i, 4).Value > currentPeriodHigh Then
currentPeriodHigh = ws.Cells(i, 4).Value
rangeExtensions = rangeExtensions + 1
End If
If ws.Cells(i, 5).Value < currentPeriodLow Then
currentPeriodLow = ws.Cells(i, 5).Value
rangeExtensions = rangeExtensions + 1
End If
End If
End If
Next i

CalculateRangeExtensions = rangeExtensions
End Function


As you can see, the loop counts +1 RE whenever there's a new high or new low, after IB. As simple as that.

I'm not aware of how other members in the forum calculate RE, or if this should be the standard way. Whatever the "calculation" may be, it's important to understand the underlying concept behind Range Extensions first, and then put effort into building one.

In MOM, Dalton states the following: "Multiple period range extension is generally the result of successively higher or lower auctions." Successively higher auctions, meaning Higher Highs in the subsequent periods, following the same pattern. If range is extended beyond the IB, then it's a good indication of general trade facilitation. I mainly use RE in my activity column. If there are more RE's then yesterday, that not only gives me an indication of better trade, but also a very active market.

Though, once can think that the direction of where range is extended could add additional, more useful information. And certainly, it can be an improvement on the basic model. For instance, the accumulation/distribution analysis also uses the same concept, but for a different purpose.

Anyways, hopefully that provided some clearance on the concept.
— Developed by MMQ
  • #1,628
  • Apr 26, 2025 9:42am Apr 26, 2025 9:42am
Quoting mzvega
3) The Overlay Demand Curve (Composite/Merged profile) Overlay Demand Curve Value in a Directional Market Value was found for the balanced market of figure 6. The concept of value depends on a stable, balanced market, one where upper and lower bounds are apparent. In directional markets no such bounds exist. Price moves and pauses, then moves some more. The pauses are short time frame congestions. A pause may last minutes to hours, sometimes even days. A general rule is that value takes time to develop (value is price over time). Practically, value...

Can someone explain or does anyone uses other reference points in determining condition analysis? According to cisco terminology, he is only reffering to number of distributions and close outside/inside VA. Do you guys use different or combined reference points for determining better not screwed information about market condition(bracketing, trending)
  • #1,629
  • Apr 27, 2025 10:27am Apr 27, 2025 10:27am
Quoting amvt
{quote} Hi Rokica, as I also use RE in my analysis, allow me to explain in my own perspective how I calculate RE. For me, Range Extensions are new highs or new lows, after the IB. Basically, in a day, how many times the market extended its range. In other words, it means how many times in a day, market created newer highs or newer lows. There are a number of ways to calculate this, If you're interested in my own method, I mainly use the following code: ' For the first initialBalancePeriods bars, simply update the current high and low. If currentPeriod...

AMVT great explanation, I think it really depends on your style and what kind of information you want to gauge from it. I would say your style of RE is more for defining dynamic of the market, while CISCO approach and MOM is more like just seeing potential direction of the market. Anyways thanks for reply, I also saw your post that you recently posted about making your own analysis, where you seem to struggle at specific points as I did. I would say ODC is the most important thing in determining market sentiment and everything starts from it. Therefore good understanding of that is crucial. But for me to anyone that I talked seem to have different approach in determining market condition. I dont know one person from this forum that uses same approach and lets say formula as MOM and CISCO for determining market condition (ODC). Feel free guys to comment your thoughts on it.
  • #1,630
  • Apr 28, 2025 4:59am Apr 28, 2025 4:59am
Quoting Rokica1986
{quote} Hey, do you still trade AMT. I would like to exchange some thoughts on it. Did you manage to do analysis, I can help you in creating one.
I used to follow mzvega instuctions and do some analysis using excel workshees downloading raw data from mp indicator every evening. But since the forum die out I gave up. It would be intersting if we revive it again if some knowledgeable people willing to help come on board. Thanks for AMVT who try to take the initiations.
  • #1,631
  • May 1, 2025 9:39pm May 1, 2025 9:39pm
  •  amvt
  • Joined Feb 2025 | Status: Developer by Choice Trader by Heart | 202 Posts
Quoting Rokica1986
{quote} AMVT great explanation, I think it really depends on your style and what kind of information you want to gauge from it. I would say your style of RE is more for defining dynamic of the market, while CISCO approach and MOM is more like just seeing potential direction of the market. Anyways thanks for reply, I also saw your post that you recently posted about making your own analysis, where you seem to struggle at specific points as I did. I would say ODC is the most important thing in determining market sentiment and everything starts from...
Thank you for the kind words Rokica.

Firstly, let's clear up some of the misconceptions you're having about ODC. Overlay Demand Curve is not a way to determine "market sentiment", rather it's a way to determine market condition. Two very different things.

Market Condition can be measured in a quantifiable way. The instructions for this are clear in Don Jones' Book, Cisco Articles related to ODC and thousands of discussions on this forum.

If you're having trouble creating ODC, I would suggest first reading the book, as most of the information is clear and provided to you in an open and honest way. The other credible source are the Cisco Articles. There's also a wealth of information in this forum, but due to some misunderstandings on the "rules" of determining distributions for different timeframes, bracketing/not-bracketing condition criteria, and other problems, it's a good guess that sometimes the forum's information can be misleading.

The best course of action is to read the credible sources first. I'll be happy to answer any specific questions you might have. I can't for now, as you haven't provided any details as of yet.

But let me tell you another thing. The criteria for bracketing/not-bracketing is quantifiable. Therefore, it's not possible that one person has one approach, and another person has a completely different approach/method. The whole point of quantifying an approach is to make it as objective as possible. Hence, it's impossible that one person will receive another information and another person receives another. Both will be the same. Always. There are rules and guidelines for a reason.

Admittedly, you can have problems, that are related to your own personal situation. The problems could be, lack of experience with coding/writing programs, adjusting code for the platform your using etc.

For me personally, I had to adjust the code a bit because my main platform to calculate ODC was Excel. Coding in an environment such as VBA, which is built inside Excel, is not hard, but not easy either. It requires some creative efforts, but can be done virtually in any platform that has an IDE/Programming Capabilities.

As MzVega mentioned, she used to manually create the market profiles, or use the already built market profiles but draw lines manually on the chart to mirror the rules for ODC and determining market condition.

I assume that you have limited knowledge of ODC, which is nothing to be ashamed of. Rather, I would encourage you to read and practice as much as you can.

For any of your queries, I'll be here
— Developed by MMQ
  • #1,632
  • May 1, 2025 9:57pm May 1, 2025 9:57pm
  •  amvt
  • Joined Feb 2025 | Status: Developer by Choice Trader by Heart | 202 Posts
Quoting JPworks
{quote} I used to follow mzvega instuctions and do some analysis using excel workshees downloading raw data from mp indicator every evening. But since the forum die out I gave up. It would be intersting if we revive it again if some knowledgeable people willing to help come on board. Thanks for AMVT who try to take the initiations.
Hello JP. Great to hear from you again.

Although, I appreciate your kind words about me, I would like to point out some crucial points.

It's great that some people have taken interest in the topic again and are asking/discussing topics. However, I would encourage everyone in this forum, including those who don't post, to learn, practice and contribute to this forum.

The "knowledge" is already available, hence, it's best that we put the effort into contributing and learning from each other as much as possible. Not only to grow in our inddvidual endavours but rather, in helping each other aswell.

I can't believe that someone in this period of time, doesn't have the resources or knowledge to build/create anything. With the advent of A.I, information, free resources, virtually anybody with an internet connection can figure things out on his/her own.

When there's a will, there's a way.

Let me iterate my personal intentions I have for this forum.

I want to test, learn and share my own findings from my personal ventures with this methodology. Currently. I am in the process of back-testing the methodology for a minimum of 5 years. I will be sharing the results as soon as I can.

Once, I have got the necessary data, I am able to do many other exciting projects. Like developing random forest models for seeking better trade decisions, developing a game theory model for better risk management. A lot can be done with the data. Which I will share to the public. The parameters/subjective bias included in the back-testing will be provided in much detail to the persons who are interested in training their own models or just want to do general data analysis.

For whatever the intention is of the public, the data will be an immense help to anyone who is willing to do some work. It will also play a role in providing the evidence that this methodology not only works but excels! It'll be a motivating factor for the majority, seeing those juicy profits.

But, my personal opinion is that this community should not be lead by the greed of only money, rather research and advancing. We can, as a group, further continue the Don Jones' intiative to new hieghts. There can be so much done.

Although, at first, I intended to do this all alone. But I want to document my own journey to anyone who has the resources/effort to do so. I want to help.

Anyways, this wasn't mainly directed at JP, but to the general members of this forum.

Hopefully, I didn't come across in an offending way. My message is only to pursue the original works of Don Jones.
— Developed by MMQ
  • #1,633
  • May 2, 2025 7:51am May 2, 2025 7:51am
Hi AMVT,
Thank you for taking your time to elaborate your intentions. It is pitty as you said "I can't believe that someone in this period of time, doesn't have the resources or knowledge to build/create anything. With the advent of A.I, information, free resources." Isn't that right? The forex industry is decenteralized institution where we can't find the real collective centeralized overflow of the market. I find it interesting the likes of Don Jones came up with a strategy of "market profiles" (amvt) to trace the overflow of the market conditions to which direction is the market inclining, sideways, up or down (bracketing and breakouts.) I believe you will take the lead in this endeavors. It is all about knowing the overflows and trace to which direction the market is intending to go and know where the river flows. Thank you once again and push on the good works.
JP
  • #1,634
  • May 3, 2025 7:58am May 3, 2025 7:58am
Quoting JPworks
Hi AMVT, Thank you for taking your time to elaborate your intentions. It is pitty as you said "I can't believe that someone in this period of time, doesn't have the resources or knowledge to build/create anything. With the advent of A.I, information, free resources." Isn't that right? The forex industry is decenteralized institution where we can't find the real collective centeralized overflow of the market. I find it interesting the likes of Don Jones came up with a strategy of "market profiles" (amvt) to trace the overflow of the market conditions...
When I say amvt, I mean auction market value theory analysis
  • #1,635
  • May 5, 2025 9:58am May 5, 2025 9:58am
Quoting JPworks
{quote} When I say amvt, I mean auction market value theory analysis

Let me know, if you would like to create a model in excel. Send me private message or smth
  • #1,636
  • May 5, 2025 10:01am May 5, 2025 10:01am
Quoting amvt
{quote} Thank you for the kind words Rokica. Firstly, let's clear up some of the misconceptions you're having about ODC. Overlay Demand Curve is not a way to determine "market sentiment", rather it's a way to determine market condition. Two very different things. Market Condition can be measured in a quantifiable way. The instructions for this are clear in Don Jones' Book, Cisco Articles related to ODC and thousands of discussions on this forum. If you're having trouble creating ODC, I would suggest first reading the book, as most of the information...

Thanks for that kind of a big reply. Appeciate it. Can you navigate us to what specific in book, which chapters also in regards of CISCO articles. Which part is most important to spend most time on. Because I have tried using terminology from the book and it seems to be kind of weird. I feel like it is not just about one/ or more distribution for determining condition.
  • #1,637
  • May 5, 2025 10:51am May 5, 2025 10:51am
Quoting stain
{image} 2 distribution
Can someone explain what kind of rules does ths men uses for determining market condition. Is it only 3tpo at least for bracket limit, afterwards if it comes to two and again below 3 it is beggining of a new distribution???
  • #1,638
  • May 7, 2025 6:20am May 7, 2025 6:20am
Quoting Rokica1986
{quote} Let me know, if you would like to create a model in excel. Send me private message or smth
Hi Rokica,
Thank you for your offer, and I appreciate your enthusiasm for AMVT (auction market value theory) analysis. I sent pm and hopefully I will hear from you. JP
  • #1,639
  • May 8, 2025 8:57pm May 8, 2025 8:57pm
  •  amvt
  • Joined Feb 2025 | Status: Developer by Choice Trader by Heart | 202 Posts
Quoting Rokica1986
{quote} Thanks for that kind of a big reply. Appeciate it. Can you navigate us to what specific in book, which chapters also in regards of CISCO articles. Which part is most important to spend most time on. Because I have tried using terminology from the book and it seems to be kind of weird. I feel like it is not just about one/ or more distribution for determining condition.
Hi Rokica,
First of all, start from Auction Market Value Analytics Article, in the cisco site. I don't have the link nor the article in a downloadable format. However, MzVega had organized all of the stuff in one post. You will have to find it, but considering there are only 80 pages to this forum, it won't take more than 20 minutes.
However, I'm assuming you already have knowledge of Auction Market Theory & Market Profile Concepts. If NOT, then your first step is to read Markets & Market Logic by Peter and Mind Over Markets by Dalton.

Second, after you're equipped with the necessary knowledge, learn about Overlay Demand Curve.
By reading about ODC, you will understand the importance of Market Condition. Don Jones, the author of A.M.V.T argues that to find value, we must first find condition of the market. If the condition is balanced, then value can be found. Therefore, ODC is not only crucial tool, but only provides significant information.

In summary, here's the roadmap

1.Auction Market Value Analytics

2.Market Condition

3.Overlay Demand Curve

4.Flow Analysis

5. Internal Trends (RI & QC)

6. Nuances

To answer your question about "pointing you to specific chapters in the Book and the Cisco Articles", I would say that if you are going to be invested in A.M.V.T, then it's important to read through all the material, and not skipping over chapters. However, having said that, you can find most of the information by reading the preface of the book, where it tells you which chapters talk about which topics. Chapter 5 or 4 for instance, which I believe is labelled Overlay Demand Curves, not only talks about ODC's but also the importance of Market Condition, Supply and Demand etc. You will find a wealth of information.

Overall, don't skip any information. Try to read anything you can get your hands on, so that you won't miss the nuances.
— Developed by MMQ
  • #1,640
  • Edited 2:38am May 12, 2025 1:56am | Edited 2:38am
Quoting amvt
Hi! Currently, I have been working on my own little side projects, like building random forest models/non-linear regression models, data-base etc, I didn't want to put soo much time/effort into providing the "Evidence" I talked about in the previous post. I will give an example, and people can test it for themselves, as I've already provided the main concept. And though, once I start publishing my trades, it'll be much easier for anybody to understand further, but up-till then, make of this what you want. Kindly, divert your attention to the first...
Great work "amvt", love that there are still people willing to keep this thread alive.

On your discussions and theory of ODC, distributions and definitions of bracketing. I think you have over-complicated very simple rules. It is okay to come up with your own idea's but also important to separate them from the original ideas and rules.

First off, your examples are unclear, mainly because you mention [3rd April] which the 20,10,5,3,1 day ODC stats you see below in your chart do not reflect in any way (note the ODC start and end dates). You should note that the composite profiles are in no way tied to the candlestick prices you see on the chart, ideally they should be removed, leaving only the current price line.

Now let us discuss the basic rules for Distributions, ODC, Bracketing and Non-Bracketing (balanced and unbalanced) and your definition of "chronologically sorting distributions".

DISTRIBUTION: Series of TPO (price frequencies) from a [{start-date-time) to an end-date-time)} - I will refer to this as time-range]
ODC: A distribution which is defined (i.e., bracketing or non-bracketing) with added properties (UL,LL, Fair Value, etc)
BRACKETING: When a distribution is bound by a minimum of 3TPOs (no less within the ODC) and the Close price (last price within the time-range) is inside the 3TPO limits.
NON-BRACKETING: If the distribution flouts any of this rules.

Now AMVT ALREADY chronologically computes the ODCs, hence you see MZVegas screenshots showing day to day changes. We have, 1,3,5,10,15,20-day [time range] ODCs (the importance of each one is left to the user).

Example: Today is 12-05-2025, todays 3-day ODC will be calculated at 00:00 of today (end-date-time), the start-date-time will be 3 days prior open price at 00:01 i.e., 8-05-2025:00:01. Tomorrow at 00:00 it will be recalculated i.e., end-date-time = 13-05-2025:00:00 and start-date-time will be 09-05-2025:00:01 (the 00:01, here is being pedantic to make it clear for the example).

If you mean calculating distributions chronologically by the hour, then that is a whole new path separate from existing works which is by the day, and you should describe it a such. (I have such intentions myself). Here, new characteristic interpretations of the ODC would need to be defined. For instance, UL and LL Alerts will be acted upon differently.

With this, the "Close Rule" - stating that price must close within the bracket to be considered as "bracketing" is clear and straight forward. If price at 00:00 is not within the bracket, it is distributing/unbalanced.

"When the market closed above the bracket limits, it was indeed not-bracketing. However, it came back the very next day, and then we were stuck/confused as to if the market is still trending or now coming to balance. The answer I would give is Balance, even if there are 2 distributions"

Your answer in the above statement from this post is right, but your interpretation is confusing, you see, if a distribution is forming outside a balanced market it is testing to trend, if it fails, the balanced market has undergone a "Range Extension" BUT it is STILL ONE DISTRIBUTION, i.e., the close price still fell back into the previous 3TPO range.


Now onto what you call "two distributions", you need to clarify what you call a distribution, as a bracketing market has only one distribution (bound by 3TPO's, no less than 3tpos is within the upper 3tpos and lower 3tpos), any other "distribution" is not bracketing but distributing. So you cannot have a "balanced market" with two distributions, it is inherently unbalanced. These are the fundamentals.

To count for what I assume you call two-distributions, the shape factor was introduced, but it does not negate the balance/un-balanced rule and only tries to quantitatively measure a balanced markets' similarity to an ideal gaussian distribution.



Carry on the great work! Its encouragement for us all. Life's activities have slowed down my own developments but I will finish them eventually and present here and hopefully it will make everyone's work easier. Cheers.
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