Institutional Equivalent Education?

CompassFX inviting all traders to see Ray's latest:

Exciting News for Traders!
You’re invited, I’m super excited and want to make sure you know about our upcoming sessions with Ray where he will be introducing some new additions coming to MAX and our New 30-Day Bootcamp…
Ray’s introducing the New MAX Institutional Trade Development Signals!
NEW LIVE INSTITUTIONAL MAX TRADE SESSIONS WITH RAY
Friday September 20th at 3:00 PM EASTERN (Market Close)
Sunday September 22nd at 5:00 PM EASTERN (Pre-Market-Open)
Attend here:
https://compassfx.com/max-live/

What’s new, what’s different…
Ray’s introducing the NEW MAX Institutional Trade Development Signals, we’re so ready!
Popular trading methods compared with MAX


https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?ur...UDy6qvXJ3g--~D

Trading is about Probability Distribution, Market Maker Cycling and Volatility, that’s the Institutional Difference with MAX + Ray.
Now, I have a Special Request, can you please help me spread the word, invite all traders!
Calling All Traders – this is truly a game-changer!
Ray will also cover a crucial exercise to supercharge your trading day—marking and tracking volume, and understanding commercial buy/sell zones. Such a simple, yet powerful exercise that you don’t want to miss doing to start your trade day.
Mark Your Calendar and Set Your Reminder—You Don’t Want to Miss This!
Bring your trading friends along—we want to build momentum for traders, ready?!
Got Questions about the MAX 30-Day Bootcamp, let’s talk!
Reach Out Today:
Skype forexkim
Looking forward to speaking, we appreciate you!

Kim

Another MAX event today...
LIVE EVENT TODAY WITH RAY!
Ray + MAX with Institutional Development Trade Signals
WHEN: Tuesday October 1st at 3:00 PM EASTERN
PLEASE HELP SPREAD THE WORD
BIG FAVOR…please share the link, invite all traders, thank you!
https://compassfx.com/max-live/

Hi Ian, normally are the students profitable in the room of Ray? How long does it take for one to become familiar with Ray's teaching and consistently profitable?

Besides, does Ray focus mainly on orderflow? Which program would you suggest if one plans to learn the comprehensive version of his methods?

After 5 years of membership in Ray's room, I give out my 2¢.

If you want to learn to trade, don't buy Ray's course.

Ray claims to be an institutional trader, but this has never been proven. Additionally, professional traders in the institutional world are subject to very strict regulations and are not allowed to communicate anything outside of the bank/institution, as it would result in significant fines for both them and the institution they work for. Ray would likely lose his professional status. So from this perspective, Ray certainly cannot be an institutional/professional trader. Who would risk their career for a few hundred dollars?

Some may claim that Ray's professional status as an institutional trader is inconsequential. However, I contend that it is highly relevant. Given that the CompassFX marketing heavily relies on his professional credentials, it is crucial to verify their authenticity. Moreover, based on FCA regulations and trading standards, he is not permitted to engage in such activities. This raises questions about the integrity of either Ray or CompassFX.

Furthermore, Ray positions himself as a quantitative analyst, and it's true that he comes up with very interesting concepts, which, however, cannot be replicated in real retail trading. But even here, revealing such information is beyond the boundaries of regulation or his professional NDA.

As far as trading is concerned, Ray occasionally shows some of his trades, but it's mostly quite questionable scalping of 1–5 ticks. He even claims that setting a stop loss at the price at which he entered the trade is a “break even” for him. Apparently, he's the only one in the world who doesn't pay commissions.

There's actually a whole other Skype channel just for breaking down Ray's videos. That's because his presentations are usually a mess - all over the place, incomplete, and sometimes even on purpose confusing. After every video, there's a ton of questions about the formulas he used for certain graphs or what certain things mean.

Finally, there is nobody profitable in the room, which speaks for itself.

To summarize, Ray doesn't provide anything that can be used for real retail trading. The only benefit I see in his lessons is that he can interconnect markets in a very interesting way, provide an original perspective on the markets, and come up with original concepts for quantitative or fundamental analysis.

I would have to agree with mcquak - avoid CompassFx at all costs, Ray never trades live, its always hindsight stuff, there are so many red flags with this guy, he constantly says "did you join me on this trade" then shows a hindsight screen shot. Every morning in the room he starts the same and goes over cherry picked trades you should have taken hours ago etc never live stuff.

He hides his trading view chat labels so everyone has to guess what his trading lines are, he almost never answers any questions and rants about how great he is having never ever taken a losing trade. When you try to replicate his teachings it never seems to work on any other day other than the one he taught.

He always copies other trading view indicators then says they are his own and people in the room then sell them - shocking- his MAX stuff is just stolen from John Elhlers transform work.

Kim is just a bore who talks about sport and knows nothing about trading and Ian, in this thread, is just a shameless cheerleader.

STAY AWAY FROM COMPASSFX

Exactly. No one will give it a second thought. Some people directly asked Ray about the same thing in the room, but he always dodged the question in a pretty rude way.

This is what I meant by “That's because his presentations are sometimes even on purpose confusing.” He is not helpful at all.

This is the most frustrating part, undoubtedly. He constantly talks about having dozens of different value lines and an algorithm that supposedly predicts the dominant one for each day. But there's no way to replicate it. Just like you said, Ray might show a value line that works great on Wednesday, but on Thursday it's completely useless.

So in the end, he put together a questionable set of indicators called MAX, and his classes are no longer about anything else because he primarily needs to sell them.

It's a shame to see how far Ray's teaching has deteriorated.

Sorry, I have neglected Forex Factory for several months while I have been busy learning Ray's latest ideas. It was meant to be a Retail Algorithm, but the sheer amount of code means that it takes too long to execute on the TradingView platform and thus often times out, so it has been re-developed and an indicator suit which attempts to mimic the positions of major market participants - meaning Market Makers, Prop Traders and Commercials.

To answer your questions:
1. You may be aware that something approaching 90% to 95% of retail traders lose. Even the broker companies forced (by legislation in UK and Europe) to list the percentage of losing traders on their books (which self selects the most successful traders, since losers stop trading) usually say that 70% to 75% of their clients are net losers. Thus the idea that the average trader in any room or program should be successful is wildly optimistic.
I have no access to others accounts unless they post them neither does CompassFX, so have no way of knowing how many past and current members of Ray's room are net winners but I suspect most are not - purely because it is so difficult without the resources of a big institution.
Certainly there are people who have obviously been successful, several of whom are still active members of Ray's room of which Reeve M. is most prominent - he posts several winning trades per day and they are usually posted in the room and even more in the Skype Group, while still active he also discusses them post exit with other members.
2. How long it takes depends upon the student. The fastest I saw was around 3 months, for FX news trading it took around 5 months, but several will never get it in many cases because their personality makes them analysts rather than traders.
3. Overall I don't think Ray mainly focuses on Orderflow, though he can/does spend long periods on certain subjects such as Intrinsic and Relative Value, Price Action, Market Maker business Model, Orderflow, Hedgers etc.
4. The best course is always the current full course (lasting Months) - not the special short into classes.

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Here are the responses to your post (from the students of Ray who are members of my 'Self Help' Skype group ) free to valid students and past students :

Michele, 16:35
lol. my question is, if he believes all that and that there is NO benefit, why did he spend 5 years in the room!!!????

Greg, 16:55
There is a long held belief that the vast majority of people that want to be full time traders fail, 90%, 95, 98...whatever it is. I think those stats often apply to trading rooms as well. You can go to any credible trading room, and there will be people wildly successful, and others who are not.....and so they trash the teaching..... Some of the complaints may be warranted (true of any room). But instead of trashing it because you are not successful, why not ask a question....like why are some people successful with this and I am not? What are they doing that I am not doing. I think that is a better place to start.....
Praveen, 16:56
That will require common sense - clearly this person lacks it
Greg, 17:04
Look at the Turtles, a handful made millions, others with the exact same training, did not....why?

John T, 18:11
"Finally, there is nobody profitable in the room, which speaks for itself" - a very bold claim, did they do a survey?

Greg, 18:32
There are some extremely profitable traders, and not all of them post in here, as a matter of fact, few do. I had a long convo with Kim a few months back...there are fund managers that have taken Rays class and use what he teaches...all of it? No. But there are some big time traders who consistently make money. If you don't believe it from what you see in here, ask her...she does not lie about this stuff....

Rod, 21:51
There is several Traders in here made several million dollars ... Some of the best are females. One turned 27 k into 1.2 million in 6-7 months. Its all possible. If your trading like shit .....its you and your own trading. For myself. I am hot then cold is mostly cause by over trading. Not really waiting for the right set up .... too long on the smaller timeframe charts and not getting back out on the larger timeframes. If I start my day out do the work. Simply put down my daily target Its achievable. If I don't ..... Fire up my chart and immediately start trading you know what happens next. That's all ego, that mostly males do. Adding size and cutting sizs based on proper money management is what will set an account of fire. Where is the log of his trading day. ?????

Rod, 23:04
Perhaps his focus should be on his money management and position size in stead of posting fekking garbage on forex factory. Post his trading journal on their too .....FURTHER MORE ....just share why he is shit Instead of blaming everyone else for his issues. Oh yeah but that's easy to do isn't it. I work in oil and gas offshore ... Its rewarding ,exciting and brutal. You don`t perform there are boat loads of people looking to get in and will do it cheaper than I can. Anyone who is in Rays room knows Ray is old school and does not tolerate fools .... Institutional trade desks are also brutal. Ray gives the incite to what this is like. I have stepped out of the room for years due to my partners illness. Its a total gift to be able to deploy RISK funds into the markets and change your life. Ray has got way better at dealing with Retailers one thing that does anomy me. Is we are not Prop were not institutional were retail we don't have endless funds and time to deploy. Greg`s post is correct. The turtles were given a road map. That map was with the kelly risk formular. And relied on the traders sizing up when needed. Most failed to do so. Curtis Faith covered all of this in his book. What we have here is way better than what any of the turtles had. But if you cannot have the discipline if you cannot have the dedication if your too lazy you will not succeed. You will loose everything you have in trying.

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Ian, it means nothing. These are just outcries of people who belong to the "tribe" and need to convince themselves that they are on the right side, that they belong to the right tribe. Notice the offensive tone in which they express themselves about me?

Nobody will touch our idol, our Ray. The unconditional godliness that Ray exudes has literally enchanted this tribe. Everyone writes about how Ray is old school and that the trading desk is brutal. There's never been any proof that Ray ever traded as an institutional trader. Whenever such a discussion arose, it was dismissed by Ray. This is where Ray's arrogance always stood out ( they are idiots ), which turns into godliness when Ray is in a good mood.

If you wanted to be fair, you would find other comments that support exactly what I'm saying, and there have been more than enough of them over the years. And neither Ray nor Kim have ever reflected on the fact that Ray is an absolutely terrible teacher.

Simply put, Ray is a god for the tribe and no one wants to express how it really is because the tribe would reject them. I have witnessed many discussions that were opened on this topic, and they all ended with the attitude: "Well, that's just our Ray."

You yourself wrote here (if I recall correctly) that you've been in the group for several years (10?) and still don't feel ready to trade a live account. While you've been in the room and studying Ray's methods, you haven't started trading, and during that time, the methods Ray teaches have changed many times. Methods from 2019 no longer apply, things from 2022 are no longer taught, now Ray and Kim need money for MAX indicators because not many new students are coming in.

As I wrote, Ray as a trader is quite dubious (and that's exactly what the post above me confirmed). But Ray as a quantitative analyst is excellent.
That's why I wrote that those who want to learn how to trade shouldn't buy his course because it won't teach anyone to trade on its own.

@Mcquak I was being fair to you. Those are actually all the words of replies - however for the sake of transparency there were also 2 replies which only consisted of GIFs (rather uncomplimentary ones). So what I posted was only the least insulting toward you.

Some things you say are true. There are always (at least every month) some negative comments about Ray's teaching - nobody claims he is a great teacher, just that content of his teaching is unsurpassed in it's breadth and depth. Which is why other teachers take his courses (Eusebio R.I.P. late of The MAX system trading courses took Ray's course at least 3 time that I remember and was also a member of my student 'Self Help' group). However I and many other long term students see that his teaching skills are improving.

You are nearly correct about my trading. Yes, I have been a student of Ray for over 10 yrs. But I did trade live from the 2nd month (June 2014) but was not profitable (using Spreadbetting brokers and MT4 charting) until he had taught FX news trading, then trading the Oil Inventories. The FX news trading was wrecked by Brexit and the 1st Trump presidency, so I went back to demo. I had other periods of live Futures trading mainly using Sierra Chart and the AMP brokerage/clearer until they banned me. I later traded live with Optimus (clearing through Ironbeam Futures). I'm currently doing Simulation again in Sierra Chart, hoping to restart live trading again.
I have posted about these and have even posted a few live trade account results. I stopped doing that because anything can be faked and so doubters could always find a reason not to believe me - it was Eusebio who taught me that when we chatted about why some people didn't believe Ray.

You are correct that markets evolve and that the simplistic Order Flow methods Ray taught back in 2014 no longer work so well, fortunately there are more sophisticated Order Flow resources for retail traders these days, there are also better news trading resources, and so Ray is now able to teach more institutional methods. Any retail teacher is limited by what is available in the retail space!

Most of those so-called cherry picked trades are Tweeted around 1am (London time) on the day for those subscribing to his Smart Alpha service. Of course if you don't accept that he has a job with a trading Bank (currently a Japanese one, previously German) then you are not impressed by this and insist on follow-up reminders while he is at work.

If you wanted to be fair, you would find other comments that support exactly what I'm saying, and there have been more than enough of them over the years.

As I wrote, I don't expect anyone to pick up the gauntlet and write something to the effect that I'm right about something. Most reactions are merely speculations that maybe someone made some money at some point because Kim said so. Sorry, but this can't be taken seriously.

Furthermore, it doesn't change the fact that all the Ray's best trades are on the far-left side of the chart.

Moreover, it doesn't change the fact that it's not certain whether what Ray claims about himself is true, especially when Kim uses this unverifiable information for marketing.

Finally, Ray also has order flow lessons, but they are by far the worst. I haven't seen a worse order flow teacher than Ray. If Ray claims about himself that he scalps second charts and essentially doesn't understand order flow, I doubt his ability to trade profitably.

However, I've taken a lot from his quantitative methods, and those are truly worth watching.

@Ian, I didn't mean to be personal, mock you, or criticize you. Rather, I wanted to point out how much and how quickly what Ray teaches changes over time.

Its not surprising there are only positive views of Ray in that room as Ian kicks out anyone who criticizes either Ray or compass in general, only in Dec from memory did Ian kick out 2 members who dared to call-out Ray a fraud as he was pretending he invented this unique MAX system, and the protestors pointed out that Ray just copied the idea and used standard indicators and rebadged it - they were quickly shown the door by Ian who is judge, jury and executioner in that sham of a room.

It's true I kicked out one member for their continued attacks on Ray. Members were complaining about his comments, both to me and also to Compass. The main thrust of the attack was on what Ray was calling 2 of the lines in the new MAX indicator suite plus that those 2 lines were based upon two fairly well known indicators.
Other members pointed out that Ray had never claimed that he had invented these indicators, nor that they were anything more than approximations to how the HFTs and Market Makers would be positioning. Most in my group felt that Ray's indicators had some value to traders plus they were provided free as the other portions of MAX were (the only charge was for sufficient time in the room to allow students to absorb the training on how to use them).
However this person did not stop the criticism; I allowed him (I assume it was a male) 3 days to calm down, but he would not - so I had no alternative but to expel him.

The other guy , who had ben encouraging the first one, left of his own accord with a post swearing at me and saying I would regret it. Next day he apologised privately, and I forgave him, but I could not allow him to return for fear of causing more disruption to the group.

As you mention, thee have been some moans in the past - which proves that I do allow a certain amount of moaning about Ray in my group, but only enough for members to get their point across. However I don't allow it to be continuous, disruptive or talk about suing Compass and trying to organise an alternative group.
It would amaze me to find any moderator who would allow such behaviour, no matter how laid back they were.
I make it clear that the group is not a democracy and that I (or somebody designated by me) is in charge.

Every prospective member is provided with a document of the rules and asked to tell me they agree before being allowed to join.
The full document is here:


Aims and Objectives of this Prop Time Self Help Group:
We are a mutual support Group, but we are all traders. We are here to help each other trade better and learn quicker – a little like a Study Group. So although it is OK to ask questions about trading and learning, do some work yourself before asking.
Because we are traders, not educators, we will not tolerate persistent whiners nor persistent complainers. We just can't afford to do so!
We certainly want to help Compass deliver the best possible training, support and service to all of us. We are not in opposition to Compass.
We are respectful and polite - though not always diplomatic. We will not tolerate insulting behaviour nor Spamming.
Prop Time Skype Group Rules:
1. We are NOT an 'official Group' for the Course, so it is vital that we do not break any Legal or ethical/moral rules! So no posting of material (even non-Compass material) which would break a Non Disclosure Agreement.
2. Please don't add new members without prior agreement from Ian. This is because if we mistakenly add somebody who has not signed the Course NDA we could be in trouble!
3. We are adults, so no fighting with fellow members. Neither in the Group Skype, nor in private please. If you cannot get along with a fellow member then just ignore them.
4. No posting of offensive remarks either about anyone - member or non-member and that includes the Compass people. We don't want to antagonise anyone, especially each other or Compass.
5. No posting of Racist, Sexist or insulting or contentious Religious or Political remarks.
6. Because we have a ‘once a member – always a member’ philosophy, we have members who are not current students! So you must not post private recordings of Ray’s sessions or classes in our group Skype or in our ‘knowledgebase’ workspaces (when we get them re-constituted). Because this might encourage people not to continue subscribing to Ray’s room or other services. However you can post copies of Ray’s charts if you have a question about something related to them.
Members are requested;
1. To make private connections with other members with whom they have things in common. So they can use those connections for messages which are not of general interest to the majority of the Group, or are indeed Private.
2. Please do some work/make some attempt at finding out before you start asking questions or asking for help. We are not here to spoon feed anybody. If you are not prepared to work hard then you are on the wrong Course!
3. Please do post your own insights, information etc., but do so in the Group Skype initially. The ‘knowledgebase’ workspaces will have a limited amount of space and/or a limited number of messages, so try to limit that to important information we want retained.
4. However:
You can post things in the Group Skype or in the ‘knowledgebase’ workspaces but they must be either your own work, or something freely available on the internet.
I am not too fussy about theoretical copyright infringements so long as A). It is not a Compass or a MAX course infringement. And B). The material is a copy of something that has already been pirated.
SANCTIONS:
Ultimately this Group is not a democracy. Ian has the deciding vote on how things are done.
Anybody breaking the Prop Time Skype Group Rules may be excluded with no prior warning!
Anybody who persistently ignores the 'Prop Time Skype Group Requests' after more than one warning may be excluded!

If only these rules were followed and enforced. There would be fewer endless wannabe funny discussions about completely irrelevant things, which are usually led by your long-time friends whom you're afraid to threaten with expulsion, I suppose. Searching for any useful information in such a cluttered channel is absolutely impossible.

I have been studying Ray’s recorded videos for a long time and recently started the evaluation process. Unfortunately, I have failed 3-4 times, possibly due to a lack of discipline. After spending so much time on screen, I now feel that this only comes once the market has already print candles basically (back testing )However, I do have a few questions

In 1st trade, I took a half-back entry and got 12.5 points on ES. Sounds good, right?
However, in the second trade, I entered a pro trade and had 8 unrealized points, but since my target was the next pivot point, I ended up losing the commission on it. I have many examples like this where you’re wrong on one side but right on other side if you take let’s say halfback & value lines are always unpredictable at that time when it’s print.

In the second picture, if I had taken this trade as a half-back entry, I could have gained 12-13 points.
So, I guess it only seems to work once it has already played out or maybe i missing something.

Let’s say my stop loss is 5-6 points—do you wait until it hits the stop, or do you cancel the trade yourself if it’s not moving in your direction?
I sent you some messages on Skype; please check them.

Hi @Domtrader, I have not seen any Skype messages from you. In any case I limit my Skype to just members and prospective members of my group so that I don't accidentally give information that would be breaking the Non-Disclosure Agreement.

From just the 2 small graphs you show, I really don't understand what you are doing, since all I see is price and volume very little even of that. And not even a single Value Line.

I never trade with single contracts because it is too hard for me to decide when to take profits and when to scratch. Stop Loss and Profit Take are very dependent upon the individual. Some are OK with waiting for their PT or their SL to be hit - I am not. If I get out prematurely and the trade still looks good I re-enter at a suitable price.