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  • #25,121
  • Oct 31, 2023 7:13am Oct 31, 2023 7:13am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Hummm... this is a bit offtopic but it's a very good point. Specially if you could integrate that with your own software like Multicharts, Ninja, etc.
Exactly. Rithmic is integrated into any kind of software. Even MultiCharts and many other charting packages have integrated Rithmic connection. And there is Ninjatrader too for many coders a cheap option. I do not get this. It cannot be. This is out of normal world. Too strange. If Apex do not need to pay anything for their realtime data, it could be that they make little bit of money. But very uncertain about that. Too many strange things here going on, really. Idk whether it is good idea to join Apex etc.
  • #25,122
  • Oct 31, 2023 7:17am Oct 31, 2023 7:17am
Day 2 w/Apex. Banked $639 for each account ($6390 total).

My approach for any challenge is to divide the Profit goal by the days needed. If its 7 days then $3000 profit goal divided by 7. So i need to make at least $430 per day.
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Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #25,123
  • Oct 31, 2023 7:20am Oct 31, 2023 7:20am
I mean there are already flat fees futures brokerages where you pay one fee for lifetime trading. But NOT for the exchange fees. Same is with data. There is no flat fee for exchange data fees. This is impossible. So too strange what kind of data you really have from Apex. Even the traders need to be classified as professional trader....
  • #25,124
  • Oct 31, 2023 7:30am Oct 31, 2023 7:30am
Quoting ForexGalVA
{quote} You have a full calendar month before you must cancel or pay 80% off next month.
ho many time do you have to make 1500$ goal on the 25K tradovate?

7 days or 30?
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in holiday till end of November
  • #25,125
  • Oct 31, 2023 7:35am Oct 31, 2023 7:35am
Quoting Cryptosurf
Day 2 w/Apex. Banked $639 for each account ($6390 total). My approach for any challenge is to divide the Profit goal by the days needed. If its 7 days then $3000 profit goal divided by 7. So i need to make at least $430 per day. {image}
I did today 400 on 1500 what should I do if I do more than 30% today?

should I stop already?
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in holiday till end of November
  • #25,126
  • Oct 31, 2023 7:35am Oct 31, 2023 7:35am
I posted review about Apex around 2 months ago, support is useless. My dashboard didn't show correctly balance after session ended on funded account .The numbers on dashboard been different than rhitmic. They couldn't solve it during my 7 days of trading. There website look worse than anything. Why people bother to buy it I do t get it. Anyway there is promo I see on top step as well 50$ for 50k and I believe top step is far better.Also there is other futures company take profit trader, they also run promos often.

https://products.topstep.com/?utm_so...t=earn_funding
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  • #25,127
  • Oct 31, 2023 7:40am Oct 31, 2023 7:40am
I could imagine that Apex has one big server machine and all the traders are taken as sub accounts. So they pay one time all full professional exchange data fees and all the traders are hanging on at one server with them. That would explain any delays and lagging. The only way to make money for them. But this is highly illegal. If CFTC gets notice that they do not pay full data fees for each customer they get a huge fine and then the business is over for Apex. And also for other future props doing it the same way. I do not see any possible legal solution for Apex how they could do a profit from this. It only looks too criminal. If we cannot figure out the business model...
  • #25,128
  • Oct 31, 2023 7:41am Oct 31, 2023 7:41am
Quoting forexbali
{quote} I did today 400 on 1500 what should I do if I do more than 30% today? should I stop already? {image}
The 30% rule only applies to funded accounts. See here:
What are the Consistency Rules For PA and Funded Prop Accounts? – Apex Trader Funding
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #25,129
  • Oct 31, 2023 7:43am Oct 31, 2023 7:43am
Quoting TrAndy1
I could imaging that Apex has one big server machine and all the traders are taken as sub accounts. So they one time all the full professional exchange data fees and all the traders are hanging on at one server with them. That would explain any delays and lagging. The only way to make money for them. But this is highly illegal. If CFTC gets notice that they do not pay full data fees for each customer they get a huge fine and then the business is over for Apex. And also for other future props doing it the same way. I do not see any possible legal...
There is no such server moron. You access CME feed via Tradovate or Rithmic feed.

If you don't know what you're talking about then kindly stfu.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #25,130
  • Oct 31, 2023 7:46am Oct 31, 2023 7:46am
There is no such negotiation when it comes to the fees for the Futures exchanges. No way. Even every trader is considered as retail which is also illegal. Then all the data fees with Level 2 even on Rithmic or else is more expensive than what you pay for Apex. So no way how can Apex make any money with those low evaluation fees, in a LEGAL way. => Also for any trades being copied to live there would be real exchange fees for any trades. So the chance is very high that 100% is simulated only.
  • #25,131
  • Oct 31, 2023 7:48am Oct 31, 2023 7:48am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} The 30% rule only applies to funded accounts. See here: What are the Consistency Rules For PA and Funded Prop Accounts? – Apex Trader Funding
so I continue with speed, thanks
in holiday till end of November
  • #25,132
  • Edited 8:45am Oct 31, 2023 8:23am | Edited 8:45am
Pitfalls of this $2 million one account challenge at FundingTraders ? It seemed too discretionary rules elements. But am I right ? Is that a good challenge in that prop ?
Inserted Video
  • #25,133
  • Oct 31, 2023 8:44am Oct 31, 2023 8:44am
Quoting Cryptosurf
Day 2 w/Apex. Banked $639 for each account ($6390 total). My approach for any challenge is to divide the Profit goal by the days needed. If its 7 days then $3000 profit goal divided by 7. So i need to make at least $430 per day. {image}
Who can make me some calculations to group 20 apex accounts with this offer?

If we watch the table, the best program should be the 25K and 50K, but the 25K has to few lots, it seem that some of you that did the 50K made the perfect choice.
Higher programs have profit goal triple while number of contracts you can use just double or just little more than double. So would be more difficult and you will need more days to make sufficient profit, if not fail....

so 20x50K with the offer should be around 20x17$= 340$ first month, second month should be 80% off so 680$.

But, if I pass the challenge? there would not be the second month to pay, but directly the fee for the funded account that is 105 or 85$ per account

85x20=1700$ per month, with 50.000 combined max drawdown, and which is the profit goal? we can just take out profits every time we want?

but the drawdown is "trailing" so let's say our drawdown is 50000 and you make 50000$ profit, you want to withdraw 100%, 50.000$ you breach and end.
if you withdraw 25000$ you cut 50% your max drawdown.. so ok you withdraw only 5000% and you cut your drawdown by 10% only waiting to make new profits next day.

So in few words you have to keep all your profit there risking to lose after xx day all. Or, you can make most profit you can and then you start to close 1 account per time and you keep at the end just few active.

last question, to group 20 accounts, with tradovate, for who just trades MICROS like me (I made calculation that I can trade ES with such few lots and small drawdown), would it be possible to use the tradovate copier and replicate the same lots on each 50K account?

please let me know, thanks.
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in holiday till end of November
  • #25,134
  • Edited 9:03am Oct 31, 2023 8:50am | Edited 9:03am
Quoting forexbali
{quote} Who can make me some calculations to group 20 apex accounts with this offer? If we watch the table, the best program should be the 25K and 50K, but the 25K has to few lots, it seem that some of you that did the 50K made the perfect choice. Higher programs have profit goal triple while number of contracts you can use just double or just little more than double. So would be more difficult and you will need more days to make sufficient profit, if not fail.... so 20x50K with the offer should be around 20x17$= 340$ first month, second month should...
I made a smaller calculation and figured out, that is the same for 80% discount (never ending) with the $85 per month fee on $50k accounts like you would take the $300k account with $80 reset fee anytime and $85 fee on funded stage too. It is not exact the same but near.

20 accounts at $50k for each $34 (at 80% discount as follow up when you failed first time) + 20*$85 fee = $2.3k TO 20*$67 (later $80 reset fee for those 300k) +20*$85 = $3.1k to $3.3k but you make three times more with the given DD (2.5k vs 7.5k) on funded. Capped at $3.5k for the 300k accounts first 3 months. So basically the $300k accounts are more preferable. So at first payout you have $40k/$2.3k on 20*50k versus $70k/$3.3k on 20*$300k or 17.4 multiple to 21.2 multiple. In addition on those $300k accounts there is $4k left for another payout. As payouts are capped at 3.5k when you make 7.5k. So you can make $140k in comparison to the first payout on 50k accounts, which is here $40k on 20 accounts. So basically 17.4 (at 50k) to 42.4 (at 300k) (!).
BUT...

...It depends on the 30 days time limit, because then again is resetted on the evaluations. That is the big hurdle on that 300k account. Personally I would prefer 20 $300k accounts because it is nearly same value. But too much yolo gambling style for me with the trailing DD AND combination of 30 calendar days limit. Simply too much. Without any time limit, this would be clearly best option. But so it is difficult to decide. And on funded accounts you cannot trade any micros bytheway at Apex.
  • #25,135
  • Oct 31, 2023 9:03am Oct 31, 2023 9:03am
Quoting TrAndy1
Pitfalls of this $2 million one account challenge at FundingTraders ? It seemed too discretionary rules elements. But am I right ? Is that a good challenge in that prop ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIdI1qNxK6M
oh thanks I need that: back to reality

and now with NO TIME LIMITS is the correct way to make money, but people need a salary and money to live now, that is the issue that make them lose.

And the prop challenge that was forcing you to make 10% in 30 days... or 20 session, that was insane.

Now you can take 100K account, invest 30K in 5 trades and to get account down market should move against you of 30% to lose that account. No way.
Than you diversify, and it's done. But you have to be patient, good enough to know where market is going and have plenty of time and other income to reach that goal.

Would be sufficient just a mobile to make some correction, while you are really in holiday or at job or with family.

And that will be the future, if market will be regulated and if the prop business will survive. Otherwise, what he said on the video it's just for who can make money because has money, has an account of 1 million, 2 million etc, because it is impossible to live with trading with a 50K account, or again we enter in the world of leverage, high leverage and high risk to blow your full account.
in holiday till end of November
  • #25,136
  • Oct 31, 2023 9:08am Oct 31, 2023 9:08am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} I made a smaller calculation and figured out, that is the same for 80% discount (never ending) with the $85 per month fee on $50k accounts like you would take the $300k account with $80 reset fee anytime and $85 fee on funded stage too. It is not exact the same but near. 20 accounts at $50k for each $34 (at 80% discount as follow up when you failed first time) + 20*$85 fee = $2.3k TO 20*$67 (later $80 reset fee for those 300k) +20*$85 = $3.1k to $3.3k but you make three times more with the given DD (2.5k vs 7.5k) on funded. Capped at $3.5k...
My god, too technical for me today I'm tired already.

So, you could use less 300K account that would cost you the same of the 20 50K accounts, if you think that the 300K account would be better for some reason that you should write in few lines to give a better idea, because what you wrote, would need a full day of calculations, and I bet you made it good.

So instead of 20 50K or 300K, for what you say may be would be good to use 5x300K or 7x300K

and if you can explain in few words, with smaller example, why I should use the 300K and not 50K, you make me a favour, keep it more simple.

in holiday till end of November
  • #25,137
  • Oct 31, 2023 9:09am Oct 31, 2023 9:09am
Quoting forexbali
{quote} Who can make me some calculations to group 20 apex accounts with this offer? If we watch the table, the best program should be the 25K and 50K, but the 25K has to few lots, it seem that some of you that did the 50K made the perfect choice. Higher programs have profit goal triple while number of contracts you can use just double or just little more than double. So would be more difficult and you will need more days to make sufficient profit, if not fail.... so 20x50K with the offer should be around 20x17$= 340$ first month, second month should...
Theres a process that you have to follow. Theres a reason why multiple 50K accounts make better sense. Read my previous post here: https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...14636434#reply

Read the payout process as well. Theres a certain logic to apply. How do payouts work? Payouts - Withdrawal - Profit Split- Percentages – Apex Trader Funding

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Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #25,138
  • Oct 31, 2023 9:13am Oct 31, 2023 9:13am
Quoting forexbali
{quote} My god, too technical for me today I'm tired already. So, you could use less 300K account that would cost you the same of the 20 50K accounts, if you think that the 300K account would be better for some reason that you should write in few lines to give a better idea, because what you wrote, would need a full day of calculations, and I bet you made it good. So instead of 20 50K or 300K, for what you say may be would be good to use 5x300K or 7x300K and if you can explain in few words, with smaller example, why I should use the 300K and not...
Okay to say it in simple words. The 300k offer gives you more value, as the payouts are much higher. BUT you need to be aware that the 30 days clock is ticking when you need to pass the evaluation, which is more difficult. All in All the 300k is better when you have a chance to get the eval of 300k passed within 30 days. That's it.
  • #25,139
  • Edited 9:58am Oct 31, 2023 9:17am | Edited 9:58am
One more thing comparing 1 account each of 50k to 300k. On the ongoing 80% discount for the 50k and $80 reset fee for the 300k (ongoing fee for evals) it is:

$35+$85= $120 for $2.5k in payouts, to $80+$85= $165 for $7.5k in payouts (as those hurdle rates (which is 100% of the trailing DD) are the minimum for payouts).

So for 35% more in fees you get 3 times more in payouts for the 300k. So 300k is better BUT 30 days time limit on the harder EVAL. So now you can decide, I hope...
  • #25,140
  • Oct 31, 2023 9:22am Oct 31, 2023 9:22am
It is like gambling or yolo twice on the 300k vs. the 50k. So for 50k you have to do 120% versus on 300k you need to do ~2 times = 266% here. But you get 3 times more in payouts with the 300k accounts. So all in all the 300k is better. But you need to have some chance to succeed within the 30 calendar days time limit, before the reset put all your efforts on the 300k again to zero. So all in all both offers are not too far off to compare each as treating them the same. But you can make more absolutely with the 300k, so in the end it is a decision to the 300k, because of that. In addition the value is slightly higher with the 300k account at Apex.
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