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  • #23,181
  • Sep 29, 2023 8:49am Sep 29, 2023 8:49am
Quoting genuine007
{quote} TFF 10k live funded failed {image}
Work hard like 16 hours per day 7 days a week for the next 6 months at least to build a good solid trading strategy. Backtest also a lot but not overoptimizing it too.
  • #23,182
  • Sep 29, 2023 9:05am Sep 29, 2023 9:05am
Quoting sheva89
May I ask which prop firms are you all using at the moment, after losing 2 accounts from MFF and 1 from 5ers due to dollars strength. I need to re-build my capitals again. Thank you all.
why you lost because of dollar strenght? you could simple use SL or trade opposite direction.
when this is your reason you lost because you have no edge and so prop trading is good for you to get maybe a edge from a strategy that would not work in real trading long term, so you can win sometimes on end by reduce your sure long-term loss over the prop trading game you play by partially times of win.

but you should always know why you lost, its never because of dollar strength or something like this. it can be only by an action you did by yourself (choose wrong prop , broker.. trade strategy without edge... wrong money management...) , so you can work on this and get better.
  • #23,183
  • Sep 29, 2023 9:09am Sep 29, 2023 9:09am
Quoting Capablanca
I'm not aware how google ads work. Is this normal ? (to rename the name of the company in the link to be shown as if it was City Traders Imperium) {image}
It is not normal to put a competitor's name on text headline in Google ads. CTI can do something with it, if not, the google algorithm will evaluate your ad with a low score due to the irrelevant between the headline and content inside the page, leading to your ads will not pop up much. However, it's normal when your ads pop up while searching the competitor's company name.
  • #23,184
  • Sep 29, 2023 9:13am Sep 29, 2023 9:13am
Quoting genuine007
{quote} TFF 10k live funded failed {image}
sorry it didn't go your way.

How have the trade executions been for you with TFF? I've found them very poor recently. Whenever I place a trade it takes quite a few seconds to enter. Never used to be like this. Says "entry started" or something then fills 5 or so seconds later.
  • #23,185
  • Sep 29, 2023 9:15am Sep 29, 2023 9:15am
Quoting TrAndy1
It is better to stay away from TFT and all his firms from Angelo. As long as he is selling all trade history with personal info to reverse engineers the underlying trading strategy, you have a much worse chance to succeed longer term. If you trade tiny volume products like Dow and Gold you have no chance at all, I would say. Bad. Because when they reverse engineered your strategy they know in beforehand when you enter and exit and they can easily frontrun it. If that is highly likely successful they can leverage it and they use some bigger money...
that is a dream.

frontrunning unprofessional traders who trade in a trading game , with trades total unconnected to the real market... why someone should do this when can earn so much more money without the risk by simple do like simple business?
you dream about there are very good traders staying in a prop company like trading games. that is never the case,
maybe someone will get professional trader later and will earn some millions each year (but not in the time they use prop accounts like trading games). the point the trader use a trading game (the real problem is many do not check prop are only trading games) you know already they are nothing near professional traders. and i speak about the trading game prop companies, not the real prop companies.. name is now mixed because the trading game people copied it to use the good sound from real prop institutional traders.

so many times this was tried to do trading games and copy the good traders, any single time it was done there was big losses on the end, because never was good people on start in such games. you have to evaluate what is good and trade a lot to make diversification.... this takes all away from your wins over long term with unprofessional traders who attend in such games, because to many lose after some time.
  • #23,186
  • Sep 29, 2023 9:22am Sep 29, 2023 9:22am
Quoting rizla101
{quote} sorry it didn't go your way. How have the trade executions been for you with TFF? I've found them very poor recently. Whenever I place a trade it takes quite a few seconds to enter. Never used to be like this. Says "entry started" or something then fills 5 or so seconds later.
for me it is good, but yeah sometimes chart just show loading, you have to exit meta app and again launch it, and yeah delay is there
i don't think you will ever find prop firm without any issue, some minor issues exists in every prop firm
but tff has the best dashboard and analytics i must say, whatever you wanna see, it is there for your analysis if you use it
  • #23,187
  • Sep 29, 2023 9:23am Sep 29, 2023 9:23am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} why you lost because of dollar strenght? you could simple use SL or trade opposite direction. when this is your reason you lost because you have no edge and so prop trading is good for you to get maybe a edge from a strategy that would not work in real trading long term, so you can win sometimes on end by reduce your sure long-term loss over the prop trading game you play by partially times of win. but you should always know why you lost, its never because of dollar strength or something like this. it can be only by an action you did by...

Thanks for the advice, I will not be trading with Prop firms if I’m not profitable long-term. Different people use different strategies with various risk management. I’m not complaining dollar strength here, which I shouldn’t include at all. I’m merely asking which prop firms to choose from.
  • #23,188
  • Sep 29, 2023 9:26am Sep 29, 2023 9:26am
Quoting Tovip
{quote} It's crazy how they delayed the payment due to "technical difficulties" for weeks for a payment that's not a big figure...(Not being sarcastic, any money is good money.) Makes me wonder if they are ever gonna send off the payments that are much bigger in size to other people. Glad that you finally have received the payout tho.
Actually haven't received the payment yet.

I guess "approved" doesn't mean "processed".

Good thing I passed the rapid challenge with less drawdown. 8 days no payment, rapid indeed.

Chat support just told me it will be paid out in 48 hours. Of course, there is a complete disconnect between chat support and scumbag Angelo.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #23,189
  • Sep 29, 2023 9:33am Sep 29, 2023 9:33am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} that is a dream. frontrunning unprofessional traders who trade in a trading game , with trades total unconnected to the real market... why someone should do this when can earn so much more money without the risk by simple do like simple business? you dream about there are very good traders staying in a prop company like trading games. that is never the case, maybe someone will get professional trader later and will earn some millions each year (but not in the time they use prop accounts like trading games). the point the trader use a trading...
It is not a dream, this is reality. A few people out of 10000 traders can do it consistently. I was speaking to them. The number is always low, it was, it is and it will be.
  • #23,190
  • Sep 29, 2023 9:34am Sep 29, 2023 9:34am
Quoting sheva89
{quote} Thanks for the advice, I will not be trading with Prop firms if I’m not profitable long-term. Different people use different strategies with various risk management. I’m not complaining dollar strength here, which I shouldn’t include at all. I’m merely asking which prop firms to choose from.
take the biggest if rules are ok.
the thing is that biggest advantage in prop is for trader without edge (of course no big negative edge).
no edge do not mean you cant win over months, it only say over many thousand trades you lose.
  • #23,191
  • Sep 29, 2023 9:38am Sep 29, 2023 9:38am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} It is not a dream, this is reality. A few people out of 10000 traders can do it consistently. I was speaking to them. The number is always low, it was, it is and it will be.
how many from this earn 1 million and above from this like they would do with private accounts?

when many 1000 People trade, alone by math law many will win over many months by whatever they trade, so simple.
this is total wrong understanding math to take as proof they are good. when they have 10.000 trades we speak again and then starts Evaluation.

write a system without edge, just go in by luck, start it 10000 times and you see what i mean. that is 1 of the most underrated facts about trading, results without many thousand trades do not say anything about how good traders are. Always evaluate what you know and can calculate, not what could be. it could be only they are good traders.
  • #23,192
  • Sep 29, 2023 9:41am Sep 29, 2023 9:41am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Actually haven't received the payment yet. I guess "approved" doesn't mean "processed". Good thing I passed the rapid challenge with less drawdown. 8 days no payment, rapid indeed. Chat support just told me it will be paid out in 48 hours. Of course, there is a complete disconnect between chat support and scumbag Angelo.
I got mine today, nice surprise, didnt recieve email or anything, just checked kraken for the umtineth time and there It was.
  • #23,193
  • Sep 29, 2023 9:45am Sep 29, 2023 9:45am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Actually haven't received the payment yet. I guess "approved" doesn't mean "processed". Good thing I passed the rapid challenge with less drawdown. 8 days no payment, rapid indeed. Chat support just told me it will be paid out in 48 hours. Of course, there is a complete disconnect between chat support and scumbag Angelo.
Now they say next week (which can be Friday, I guess). Postponing and postponing...
https://twitter.com/thefundedtrader/...85825243775294
  • #23,194
  • Sep 29, 2023 9:47am Sep 29, 2023 9:47am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} how many from this earn 1 million and above from this like they would do with private accounts? when many 1000 People trade, alone by math law many will win over many months by whatever they trade, so simple. this is total wrong understanding math to take as proof they are good. when they have 10.000 trades we speak again and then starts Evaluation. write a system without edge, just go in by luck, start it 10000 times and you see what i mean. that is 1 of the most underrated facts about trading, results without many thousand trades do not...
You forget you do not have to be net profitable to be consistent winner on those prop firms. Because you get extra value for your fee. For example if your value/score is 7 that means for every 1000 USD you get 7000 USD in value. So in case you need to reinvest a lot and do need to a lot of challenges but your net profit, just take it as business expense here, is 3000 USD out of every 1000 USD invested. You could never make it on the real market trading a personal account on any broker. Because you are net negative. If you have a score of 7 and can realize a score of 3 you are positive for the prop firm, as you get profits from your invested money, which is more than your expenses, but it also means that when you can generate a score of 3 you are net looser on any personal account. Because you got a score of 7 from the prop firm.

If you do not understand this principle you can have it that easy to understand. On a score (="value of your challenge fee") of 7 you get 7000 USD for your 1000 USD in exchange for that. But from those 7000 USD you got (virtually) you can only make 3000 USD, so in real you made a loss of -4000 USD but as you exchanged it with 1000 USD fee you are net positive with the prop firm. Now everybody understands that.
  • #23,195
  • Sep 29, 2023 9:55am Sep 29, 2023 9:55am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} You forget you do not have to be net profitable to be consistent winner on those prop firms. Because you get extra value for your fee. For example if your value/score is 7 that means for every 1000 USD you get 7000 USD in value. So in case you need to reinvest a lot and do need to a lot of challenges but your net profit, just take it as business expense here, is 3000 USD out of every 1000 USD invested. You could never make it on the real market trading a personal account on any broker. Because you are net negative. If you have a score of...
you are dreaming big!

you are positive for the prop company when you make losses, that is a fact.
when you make wins you are a loss to want to bring out of the house.

always know what you do, never dream and fantasy what is not there! this brings you to Desaster on the end, because you imagine different things then happen and will so not satisfy you on the end.

and of course you need to be net profitable until payout. of course you yourself describe me that you can be a loser trader without edge and can have wins when luck happens or negative edge do not work some months. exactly this i described before. you can win by even not net profitable in account on the end, because you are no professional trader. on the point what i did tell you and why prop are not used by very good traders, because they earn so much more in own private account, and i can put out any time whatever money i need , as credit or in cash.
  • #23,196
  • Sep 29, 2023 9:57am Sep 29, 2023 9:57am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} You forget you do not have to be net profitable to be consistent winner on those prop firms. Because you get extra value for your fee. For example if your value/score is 7 that means for every 1000 USD you get 7000 USD in value. So in case you need to reinvest a lot and do need to a lot of challenges but your net profit, just take it as business expense here, is 3000 USD out of every 1000 USD invested. You could never make it on the real market trading a personal account on any broker. Because you are net negative. If you have a score of...
Exactly correct. I always use the MFF example, with 12% avialable loss and 85% split.......you pay $979 and you have 200K account with 24K max loss....so in essence you have 24K *.85= $20,400. Let's say you need 3 tries to pass, business expense of $2,937 to obtain a $20,400 account. You are now operating at a factor of 6.94. So, yeah, you really don't have to be nearly as good with the prop as you would on a personal account. 95% are going to lose either way, you also lose less with the prop as it is just a challenge fee.
  • #23,197
  • Sep 29, 2023 10:07am Sep 29, 2023 10:07am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Exactly correct. I always use the MFF example, with 12% avialable loss and 85% split.......you pay $979 and you have 200K account with 24K max loss....so in essence you have 24K *.85= $20,400. Let's say you need 3 tries to pass, business expense of $2,937 to obtain a $20,400 account. You are now operating at a factor of 6.94. So, yeah, you really don't have to be nearly as good with the prop as you would on a personal account. 95% are going to lose either way, you also lose less with the prop as it is just a challenge fee.
yes, that is why prop is for many losers (lose less ) and all other without edge (win maybe even on the end) not total bad.
for professional traders its total loss business, who wants some 10k win when can do simple 100k in private account, makes total no sense.

i never met someone not say same about. and i do not speak about self named professionals - lets be honest, many say they are professional traders but you see how they trade and what amounts and you know the reality. professional is when you have many 10 thousand trades, a good equity curve, a lot of experience over many years or decades .. someone who know that market in near any situation, because have seen near anything happen. and i never met one professional who did not earn some millions at least from trading over time.

sometimes people define professional very different, so also can come different opinions about the topic "will be professionals inside a prop trading game company". so when both define this word different, then both are correct same time .
  • #23,198
  • Sep 29, 2023 10:12am Sep 29, 2023 10:12am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} you are dreaming big! you are positive for the prop company when you make losses, that is a fact. when you make wins you are a loss to want to bring out of the house. always know what you do, never dream and fantasy what is not there! this brings you to Desaster on the end, because you imagine different things then happen and will so not satisfy you on the end. and of course you need to be net profitable until payout. of course you yourself describe me that you can be a loser trader without edge and can have wins when luck happens or negative...
If you point on me, you are again wrong. I made consistently +20% in average every month this year on my hedge fund account I am trading with. So I trade real markets and I cannot start from the beginning or anything. I had one chance to show I can do it, and I made it. That is totally different from the prop trading business. Second, I do consider what Angelo is telling us, that he is selling valuable data from traders to extract the alpha/edge on their own. This concerns me. It also should concern everyone who is net profitable consistently on his personal account, but eyeing to leverage his capital on a prop firm. Because with TFT your chances to make it consistently are much more reduced than with other prop firms. FTMO for example does not sell any of its data to third parties. That is a big difference. As I know Angelo is the only one who is doing this.
  • #23,199
  • Sep 29, 2023 10:16am Sep 29, 2023 10:16am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} yes, that is why prop is for many losers (lose less ) and all other without edge (win maybe even on the end) not total bad. for professional traders its total loss business, who wants some 10k win when can do simple 100k in private account, makes total no sense. i never met someone not say same about. and i do not speak about self named professionals - lets be honest, many say they are professional traders but you see how they trade and what amounts and you know the reality. professional is when you have many 10 thousand trades, a good equity...
It is not that. If you trade on your personal account you are at 100% risk. You can easily loose 50k which is substantial amount of money. But the same drawdown you can get with as little as 2k, so you need to compare 2k loss versus 50k loss (as 10% max. DD on a 500k account here as example). That is why this prop firm model is ALSO INTERESTING for the REAL consistent profitable trader too. Of course if you scale beyond any limits, then it starts to get boring. For example you have 2 million account on personal broker. You do not need to care anymore on any prop firm, because you cannot get much additional value anymore, because one is already too big.
  • #23,200
  • Sep 29, 2023 10:18am Sep 29, 2023 10:18am
Quoting rizla101
{quote} I got mine today, nice surprise, didnt recieve email or anything, just checked kraken for the umtineth time and there It was.
Ironically the money hit my Kraken account like 4 minutes after the chat girl told me 48 hours. Feel bad for the chat support. They just have to regurgitate the same message all day long: "48 hours and it's all Wise's fault"

Even better news is how many perfect setups I missed all week
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
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