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The brutal truth of day trading

  • #2,341
  • Jul 23, 2021 8:50am Jul 23, 2021 8:50am
Quoting bilal1947
{quote} Point noted, and how about absolute drawdown?
relative (would say real) dd more important than absolue.

22% dd is good for me. Recovery factor 14 - great
  • #2,342
  • Jul 23, 2021 9:02am Jul 23, 2021 9:02am
Quoting mashfx
{quote} could you share your TE? so it can be verified thx
Its shared.
"Exchange of hands"
  • #2,343
  • Jul 23, 2021 9:03am Jul 23, 2021 9:03am
Quoting gepards
{quote} relative (would say real) dd more important than absolue. 22% dd is good for me. Recovery factor 14 - great
Ahan, but from where do you see recovery factor
"Exchange of hands"
  • #2,344
  • Jul 23, 2021 9:10am Jul 23, 2021 9:10am
Quoting bilal1947
{quote} Its shared.
I have turned demo from 5k to 125k within 5 days. Unfortunately I have deleted the statement. Demo is good to make mistakes not for profit making
  • #2,345
  • Jul 23, 2021 9:16am Jul 23, 2021 9:16am
Quoting bilal1947
{quote} Xtreme Brutal day trading - Turned 12K into 50K - gain of 38K - in 4 Days Nothing fancy money shouldn't be the target but pips, but that's how i feel i should grow and can manage some fund in the future or my own small fund too. i am open for your comments and positive criticism. please do comment and kindly don't ignore as i will not be posting this from onwards any more. attached same trade compact summary report and detailed trades statement, i know 4 days is not a good history but still that the time i have for now. i am done for the...
It's easy to go big on a demo account. But things are very different when you go live. In other words, it's easy to play with money that isn't real, because you have nothing to lose. But when real money is involved, psychological barriers come into play that are hard to overcome.

It is my opinion that demo trading is a waste of time, because it does not make a trader fearful. And greed doesn't really matter, because if the money isn't real, then there is nothing to gain. The biggest hurdles to overcome in trading are fear and greed. You can only learn to overcome these things on a live account.
Learn from your mistakes and march on.
  • #2,346
  • Jul 23, 2021 9:22am Jul 23, 2021 9:22am
Quoting bilal1947
{quote} Its shared.
nice results! are those manual trades? thx
who dares wins
mashFX DSRII Return This Year: na
  • #2,347
  • Jul 23, 2021 9:26am Jul 23, 2021 9:26am
Quoting mashfx
{quote} nice results! are those manual trades? thx
Thanks, Yes all manual 301 trades in 4 days
"Exchange of hands"
  • #2,348
  • Edited 10:27am Jul 23, 2021 9:29am | Edited 10:27am
Quoting bilal1947
{quote} Yes all manual
just checked out your other TE with Nasdaq EA, it looked awesome. if I were you I'd would run it on live. thx again for sharing, very inspirational
who dares wins
mashFX DSRII Return This Year: na
  • #2,349
  • Jul 23, 2021 9:33am Jul 23, 2021 9:33am
learning and gaining experience matters a lot. Now I use a long-forgotten, tested system, and then I tried and analyzed it many years ago. It didn't work then. not so long ago I revisited this idea. armed with a more educated and experienced brain, I judged that it would work.
I have been using this idea ever since.
with this monologue I just wanted to say that the solution is often in our hands, we just can’t recognize it yet.
sorry for my poor english.
good luck for everyone.
  • #2,350
  • Jul 23, 2021 9:46am Jul 23, 2021 9:46am
Quoting here2there
{quote} It's easy to go big on a demo account. But things are very different when you go live. In other words, it's easy to play with money that isn't real, because you have nothing to lose. But when real money is involved, psychological barriers come into play that are hard to overcome. It is my opinion that demo trading is a waste of time, because it does not make a trader fearful. And greed doesn't really matter, because if the money isn't real, then there is nothing to gain. The biggest hurdles to overcome in trading are fear and greed. You...
To be honest ... even on demo account it is not easy, it is only easier than with real money ...
Wouldn't you agree?
  • #2,351
  • Jul 23, 2021 9:52am Jul 23, 2021 9:52am
Quoting here2there
{quote} It is my opinion that demo trading is a waste of time, because it does not make a trader fearful. And greed doesn't really matter, because if the money isn't real, then there is nothing to gain. The biggest hurdles to overcome in trading are fear and greed. You can only learn to overcome these things on a live account.
The demo plays its own part - being the primary and high school. Then after you go for the university - where life begins - and that is where one's fears and greed is tested through the live account. So I wouldn't say demo is a waste of time. Before a baby can walk she crawls during the first stages of movement. The driving instructor doesn't take a new learner immediately straight to the freeway. So Bilal's next level might be to learn on how to control fear and greed and yes the live account is more suitable for that part.
  • #2,352
  • Jul 23, 2021 9:57am Jul 23, 2021 9:57am
i saw my bud bilai post his demo acoutn growth. i just want to comment that it is entirelly possible as you can see below.
this week i started a 500€ account live now standing at 1200 but the actuall goal is 50% risk per trade for 2r. i know it can be done since i;ve done it. and all i need is 5 wins in a row, that is the first target. this acoutn is on par with my normal live acount and my funded acount so it is not my primary. been trading for a year and half

as of now my live account stands at 1200. 1 win, all losses cut early (didnt regret any of them), some trailing stop wins (also didnt regret trailing my trades) hence the +200 (since i always trail my trades).
will see how that goes and if interested on the how, both me and bilai have similar systems.

here is my paper trading tradingview account
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offering my system to copy trade. check my link
  • #2,353
  • Jul 23, 2021 9:58am Jul 23, 2021 9:58am
Quoting BlackNapkins
{quote} To be honest ... even on demo account it is not easy, it is only easier than with real money ... Wouldn't you agree?
It is almost the same, alot of tension, palpation, depression on losing trades, bad mood when day went bad.

It is the mistake new traders do they learn by losing money on live accounts, i cannot practice the perfect 0 drawdown entries on live accounts.

You must have noticed by my charts that where i am in comparison to a live traders.

I am waiting more comments to come and I will respond to every comment.

Live account risk can be controlled easily by using right lot size, when we know the direction and time the perfect entry. It will be easier a bit i guess.

Thank you
"Exchange of hands"
  • #2,354
  • Jul 23, 2021 10:00am Jul 23, 2021 10:00am
Quoting BlackNapkins
{quote} To be honest ... even on demo account it is not easy, it is only easier than with real money ... Wouldn't you agree?
I spent some time trading on a demo account years ago when I first started trading Forex. I was proud of my accomplishments. I thought about how easy it would be to make lots of money in just a short time. Then I went live, and reality hit me square in the face like a brick. I was inexperienced and couldn't handle losing real money. Eventually, I quit trading.

But I am back in the game, and wiser.

I don't do demo. If I want to test something out, then I will do so with the smallest lot size my broker allows.
Learn from your mistakes and march on.
  • #2,355
  • Jul 23, 2021 10:03am Jul 23, 2021 10:03am
Quoting BlackNapkins
{quote} To be honest ... even on demo account it is not easy, it is only easier than with real money ... Wouldn't you agree?
With demo account Bilal has learnt the "theory" of trading Forex.

To make real money that meet the traders expectation when at the same time the trader has to risk losing real money, that's another level of learning. The basic "theory" of trading Forex that's learnt from demo trading serves as a base.

This next step of making real money with real money at risk is like winning a local amateur tennis competition compared to being ranked 1000 and climb from there on the professional tour. It's a lot harder on the pro tour.

And many of the "theory" in demo trading are useless in real money trading. The trader can't learn the real money "theory" unless he's done it for real. The trader can only learn the "theory" how to trade a $50k account unless he actually fund and trade a real $50k account. The trader won't learn with fun real money account either.
Know what you trade
  • #2,356
  • Jul 23, 2021 10:12am Jul 23, 2021 10:12am
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} With demo account Bilal has learnt the "theory" of trading Forex. To make real money that meet the traders expectation when at the same time the trader has to risk losing real money, that's another level of learning. The basic "theory" of trading Forex that's learnt from demo trading serves as a base. This next step of making real money with real money at risk is like winning a local amateur tennis competition compared to being ranked 1000 and climb from there on the professional tour. It's a lot harder on the pro tour. And many of the "theory"...

The theory of Algo remains the same liquidity is the secret sauce.

I wish and feel that it i will be easier by trading 0 draw down on demo and it will not change in live either, cutting losses early. Trade one pair keeping margin available, using right lot size to know how many number of trades available/equity. Things will be a lot easier. Yet live taste will be tasted live.


Thanks Bwilliam
"Exchange of hands"
  • #2,357
  • Jul 23, 2021 10:27am Jul 23, 2021 10:27am
Quoting bilal1947
{quote} Ahan, but from where do you see recovery factor
Recovery Factor — the value reflects the riskiness of the strategy, i.e. the amount of money risked by trader to make the profit it obtained. It is calculated as the ratio of gained profit to the maximum drawdown;
  • #2,358
  • Jul 23, 2021 10:45am Jul 23, 2021 10:45am
Quoting mashfx
{quote} just checked out your other TE with Nasdaq EA, it looked awesome. if I were you I'd would run it on live. thx again for sharing, very inspirational
your TE is also impressive and inspirational!

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tnx for sharing
  • #2,359
  • Jul 23, 2021 10:54am Jul 23, 2021 10:54am
Quoting bilal1947
{quote} The theory of Algo remains the same liquidity is the secret sauce. I wish and feel that it i will be easier by trading 0 draw down on demo and it will not change in live either, cutting losses early. Trade one pair keeping margin available, using right lot size to know how many number of trades available/equity. Things will be a lot easier. Yet live taste will be tasted live. Thanks Bwilliam
When the real money involves you will find the elephant in the room. The best place to find out yourself who you really are. Hope you will find it better. Spending too long on sim do more harm than anything else.
Good luck.
on a postive roll...
  • #2,360
  • Jul 23, 2021 11:10am Jul 23, 2021 11:10am
Quoting here2there
{quote} I spent some time trading on a demo account years ago when I first started trading Forex. I was proud of my accomplishments. I thought about how easy it would be to make lots of money in just a short time. Then I went live, and reality hit me square in the face like a brick. I was inexperienced and couldn't handle losing real money. Eventually, I quit trading. But I am back in the game, and wiser. I don't do demo. If I want to test something out, then I will do so with the smallest lot size my broker allows.
I am not arguing with you, you are saying obvious truth, just if someone is doing so well on demo , learning and building skill it is reason to to appreciate this...
He made a tremendous progress and is matured to risk money ...
Stay well
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