BREXIT RULES! The Consequences

Propaganda or not, it really doesn't matter anymore as the vote has happened and it will not effect anything, I just thought it might lead to some informed discussion as it seems to imply some things but no counter argument, I thought one might come from this forum.

I'll be happy to change to a URL seeing as this thread was set up to allow informed discussion that encompassed distilled argument from all members on all sides and impartial observers I might add. First though, you will have to have all the satirical embedded movies removed and replaced with a URL link, such as the Yes Minister ones and also that guy in the TED talk (I only watched the first few minutes but I am sure it was satirical) there are a few others too I am sure, as they do not confirm to the "informed discussion" and "distilled argument" planks of the thread but just promote your Little England, xenophobic meme that you disproved with your YouGov poll data. Otherwise I am just going to think your previously demonstrated bias is beginning to show again.

The mere fact of the referendum has already affected the economy; the pound is at its lowest valuation in seven years. From my viewpoint, neither side is defending the European Union as a meaningful or admirable institution.

Because I have found myself ad odds on this thread with the Populism underpinning Brexit some misunderstanding may exist on the basis of my hostility.

IMHO one aspect of populism is a healthy dimension of political diversity. Its at the core of democracy in as much as it respects the will of majority,

However IMHO The success of Democracy depends on an electorate using exercising their franchise with reason and responsibility whereas Populism encourages emotional and prejudiced exercise, and to that extent it exposes itself to abuse and manipulation. In my view it becomes dangerous to society, and destabilizing, when it exploits emotional, xenophobic nationalistic sectarian and racist themes, encouraged and manipulated by political extremists, who amplify and exploit genuine electoral fears and concerns with simplistic answers to what are often very complex problems.

Typically Populist lobbyists and leaders, manipulate the most disaffected and vulnerable, the least educated, the conspiracy theorists and general outsiders. Though it may also attract selfproclaimed anarchists from the mainstream They exploit their audiences lack of understanding of the system, and build celebrity status to present themselves as champions of often very legitimate causes... for acquisition and or retention of personal power.

I think of it bit like the stereotyped used car or double glazing salesman, who ply vulnerable customers with irresponsible ego-appealing claims, eschew accountability and peddle highly unethical, distorted and simplistic presentations of what they are trying to sell.
Nothing wrong with used car salesmen. or double glazing salesmen.. some very ethical, but but many of their sales techniques are highly questionable and unaccountable..
Which is why weve got the sale of goods and consumer protection acts.
Unfortunately neither apply to popularist con-men... who appeal to emotion fear and prejudice ... (edit) nationalism, racism, sectarianism and xenophobia, rather than reason. And while political con-men may be said to populate all dimensions of political diversity.. Populist Con-Men and their causes, IMHO occupy a particularly dangerous role..

I understand why you are saying that, but it isn't really true.

The people who voted out tended to be older, most would say wisdom comes with age. The people who voted to stay were by and large were young people who I would also posit know less about the EU and its history than their elders. Education status does not imply knowledge of the EU.

The Remain camp threw around a lot of mud in the hopes that it sticks. Nigel Farage is often singled out as provocateur number one who took much of that mud flinging. He apparently hates Europeans despite the fact he has a German wife. He was singled out as being racist despite the fact that he and UKIP did a pretty good job at keeping the racists out of the party and he said he would encourage more migration from the commonwealth.

I think you need this to be about race, or sectarianism, or xenophobia not because it is true but because it validates your own opinion. The opinion polls however show that the majority of those who voted Leave did so on the grounds of sovereignty, not the reasons you provided. Your opinion doesn't really have any basis in reality. You are out of touch because you don't live in the UK anymore. Your opinion is flavored by the media and caricatures of Leave voters, not by conversation with the 'man' on the street. It is therefore no wonder you hold such views when you only seriously consider the opinion of those who echo your views, anything not conforming to that opinion is immediately dismissed as illegitimate.

In any event, it is time to move on. I understand as an expat you are annoyed, I have sympathy with your plight and the ambiguity around your current EU status. But the people picking up this mess will be the workers in the UK, not those of a pension age sitting in sunny Spain. I assure you, we in the UK will be OK - though I don't think you ever really cared about us here in the UK anyway.

[quote=cliffedwards;9436334]Because I have found myself ad odds on this thread with the Populism underpinning Brexit some misunderstanding may exist on the basis of my hostility. quote]

populism-support for the concerns of ordinary people.
ordinary-with no special or distinctive features; normal
concern-make (someone) anxious or worried
do you really thinks its a good idea to have so much animosity to ordinary peoples concerns is that not how we got into this mess??

Q.Populism encourages emotional and prejudiced exercise, and to that extent it exposes itself to abuse and manipulation. In my view it becomes dangerous to society
so you think the most popular party winning a election is dangerous to society??

Q.when it exploits emotional, xenophobic nationalistic sectarian and racist themes, encouraged and manipulated by political extremists, who amplify and exploit genuine electoral fears and concerns with simplistic answers to what are often very complex problems.
can you please share a example of this???

Q,Typically Populist lobbyists and leaders, manipulate the most disaffected and vulnerable, the least educated, the conspiracy theorists and general outsiders. Though it may also attract selfproclaimed anarchists from the mainstream They exploit their audiences lack of understanding of the system
are you sure it's not that the most disaffected and vulnerable are looking for change and as we live in a democracy they are just exercising their right to vote and as a result of this the most popular opinion wins?? maybe they just have different life experiences to you and vote accordingly??

Q,They exploit their audiences lack of understanding of the system
how exactly do you know they are being exploit with their lack of understanding it's a bit arrogant of you to presume people that disagree with you have a lack of understanding maybe they have different life experiences this is what I presume when me and someone else have the same information but come to different conclusion

Q,build celebrity status to present themselves as champions of often very legitimate causes... for acquisition and or retention of personal power
sorry how did we get to Tony Blair

Q,I think of it bit like the stereotyped used car or double glazing salesman, who ply vulnerable customers with irresponsible ego-appealing claims, eschew accountability and peddle highly unethical, distorted and simplistic presentations of what they are trying to sell
no it's not you just seem to live in a bubble and are now disconnected to ordinary peoples concerns have you spoke to friends or family that you respect and know are good intelligent people that voted to leave the EU??

Q,who appeal to emotion fear and prejudice ... (edit) nationalism, racism, sectarianism and xenophobia, rather than reason.
you seem to keep forgetting that most people voted to leave base on sovereignty not fear nationalism, racism, sectarianism and xenophobia

I hope to hear back from you mate

Very good post IMO.

Labelling something as such to denigrate it's value and conform to the authors view, does not make it so.

TheCityUK, a membership body of the UK financial markets, issued a list of 17 key priorities that UK-based financial market participants need to address in relation to the forthcoming Brexit negotiations. (https://smnweekly.com/2017/01/12/thecityuk-points-key-priorities-to-address-in-brexit-negotiations/) The list aims to put an emphasis on topics that need to be addressed so that both the UK and the rest of the EU countries achieve the best possible deal. The presented priorities aim to engage market participants with the UK government and to help deliver a smooth Brexit and maintain the UK’s position as an attractive place to do business.

Haha hilarious,

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-vote-leave-director-dominic-cummings-leave-eu-error-nhs-350-million-lie-bus-a7822386.html