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Attachments: Analysis and Trading based on Envelopes, Waves, Cycles
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Analysis and Trading based on Envelopes, Waves, Cycles

Quoting acetrader
Parisboy, I have some thoughts on Murrey & would appreciate your input & views.In my years of studying Gann & Murrey it appears Murrey Math has several similarities to Gann's Square of 9. It further appears the Murrey Math is T.H. Murrey's own self devised derivative of Gann & the Square of Nine & maybe other Gann methods.Currently I do not use Murrey Math in my trading, but I do see much merit in its use. Gann & his methods of trading have spawned several spinoffs with varying names & a cast of characters that sing the praises of the methods. Gann...
I remember a date in October as the start date & the date if I recall (doubtful) correctly as being around the 21st of October. The 1st frost thing IMHO is another Gann tactic to keep everyone from the true start date.

In fact for me I always considered the Frost / october Starting Date as pure Bullshit You can definitely start your chart at whatever point you want. As I wrote at the IPO Date or at whatever Low or Top of your choice

Could someone code a better Murrey software that runs in real time, or is that not possible due to copyrights protections? Several years ago,

Terry Pascoe is doing that presently using Trading View

I used a MM MT4 indicator that someone shared with me that was very good in that price seemed to respect the levels.

As always the guys programming EA's in MT4 on FF are just programming a tool. They do not use it for trading. Others try to do it. That we can infer from what everybody and his friends wrote on the dedicated threads (which are short living and dead) Because the question is not the "exactness " of the Lines , but the understanding of the system ( Octave , Halving, Doubling, role of Baseline, role and importance of the Halfway Line. How to trade the Lines)

It further appears the Murrey Math is T.H. Murrey's own self devised derivative of Gann & the Square of Nine & maybe other Gann methods.

If you are concerned about price levels they are unaffected by the start date. As for the time lines, you might be interested in the following which are portions of two messages from Bonnie Hill (her website is http://home.flash.net/~blhill/pages/murrey.html).

Bill

I need to give a little history of "Murrey Math".

"Murrey Math" is based on a course written by W D Gann. When Murrey put his mother into a rest home, he found the course when he cleaned out her house. He used this material as the basis for "Murrey
Math". In the early days, he gave Gann credit for the material.

As the years passed, Murrey has "forgotten" where the ideas came from :-) There are several ideas in the course which Murrey did NOT understand correctly. That is why some of the techniques seem great and some seem a little "strange".

The starting point for the 4th quarter is actually the midpoint between the Earth's
perihelion and aphelion. This date is approximately October 2nd. The date can be shifted due to trading days or lunar aspects (Full/New Moons, etc) which occur close to this date. Murrey's "birthday, etc" is pure nonsense.

If you have a copy of this particular Gann course you know EXACTLY where "Murrey Math"
came from. I have "Murrey Math" charts which I drew over 10 years before I ever saw the "Murrey Math" manual :-)

Best wishes, Bonnie Lee Hill

PB comment : Nobody has ever publicly seen this specific Gann Course
1
Plodding along on MT4
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Quoting parisboy
{image}
Looking very interesting
Quoting tmpascoe
{quote} I've modified the time parameter (thanks PB) so that it's now simply increments of 8 rather than 8,16,32,64,128. This will give far more flexibility when setting the spacing of time lines to match highs and lows and will likely negate your request for a TD/CD combo. https://www.tradingview.com/script/A...ey-Math-Lines/ Here's the link for the CMA channels, not sure why that disappeared. I suspect I deleted it during a cleanup the other day. https://www.tradingview.com/script/2...hannels-Alain/
Actually Terry, having just played with it, although the 'multiples of 8' is helpful, it doesn't allow the recreation of the CD based grid, because of course the counts will always be different in CD vs TD in the octal base, because of their respective denominators (7 vs 5) are not harmonic to 8.
Maybe you would consider both? ie leave the time parameter as increment of 8, but also leave a toggle for the counting base in CD/TD

thanks
Daily chart Bitcoin analysis - using Murrey Math lines, CMA channels & FPs & Fourier tranform cycles
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It looks likely that Bitcoin could find support either here at 6.5/8 mark or at speed line and then move to the 8/8 at 50K for this current swing.
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We're nudging the top of the 256 blue channel projection but I've seen this situation before and it can get pushed higher. It is only a straight line projection after all.
The current focal point that is forming now has a projection to about 50K

Additionally the Fourier transform cycles (my least favourite method) are providing upward pressure for a few more day yet. You can see them at the bottom of the chart.
If I trusted everyone I knew
and
Believed everything they say
I would be a very disappointed guy
Quoting GSQ120
{quote} Actually Terry, having just played with it, although the 'multiples of 8' is helpful, it doesn't allow the recreation of the CD based grid, because of course the counts will always be different in CD vs TD in the octal base, because of their respective denominators (7 vs 5) are not harmonic to 8. Maybe you would consider both? ie leave the time parameter as increment of 8, but also leave a toggle for the counting base in CD/TD thanks
It's a lot more coding, basically increasing the indicator size by 50%. Not saying no, but I will consider it. I also noticed how nicely CDs fitted on some charts and of course Murrey never did that so it's a little bit of an innovation.atm I think the increments of 8 work well
Quoting OAPDave
If I trusted everyone I knew and Believed everything they say I would be a very disappointed guy
Are you referring to my Bictoin analysis Dave
Quoting parisboy
{quote} I remember a date in October as the start date & the date if I recall (doubtful) correctly as being around the 21st of October. The 1st frost thing IMHO is another Gann tactic to keep everyone from the true start date. In fact for me I always considered the Frost / october Starting Date as pure Bullshit You can definitely start your chart at whatever point you want. As I wrote at the IPO Date or at whatever Low or Top of your choice Could someone code a better Murrey software that runs in real time, or is that not possible due to...

Parisboy,

Thank you for that response. That is eye opening information. I suspected that all along. Old information with a new spin.
Low was at 10.700 in November 2022

Focal Point / Halfway Point was at 15.300 in august 2023

Focal Point is a Halfway Point of the present swing

15.300 + 4.600 = 19.900 (+/- 2 x 460 ) = 920 rounded to 1000

November 2022 to August 2023 = 10 months

August 2023 + 10 months = June 2024 +/- 1 month
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Sticking to rules- simple but difficult. The mind always wants new techniques which makes the sticking to the mundane difficult :-)
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Again the simplicity of it all:
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Quoting tmpascoe
{quote} Are you referring to my Bictoin analysis Dave
Terry
No No No Parisboy yourself ,Santa are all great guys
Without doubt P/Boy is the best guy I have ever met in this game and carries my utmost respect
You yourself as worked tirelessly on your MM project and its really coming together in a great way although
I run Mt4 I am keeping a close eye on your progress and I am thrilled with what I see
Out of the blue I had a message from Santa, who showed me great patience in restoring my old MM software
It just so happen it tied in with your present interest
I was just going to keep it to myself as I completely understand P/Boy indifference to all things Murrey, we have debated it many times in the past
but I just thought it may help your project to see a few live examples of his charts as a sort of go compare
I have also been working with my Mt4 to mimic Murrey and although I must be the worlds worst computer guys, in my own way my charts do not look too bad and I can produce them on Stocks very easy ( even got the colors correct)
So I posted them, also to be a go compare example
All this is done with the view of seeing a Murrey Grid in action, now me being me and knowing I was treading on thin ice with P/Bo, wanted to see how his ideas and indicators fitted in within the Murrey Grid so again I posted some examples
All my Intentions are, is
TO LOOK for MYSELF how they fit and does it show any new trading edge that my eye picks up easy
DAX M1. Closed the trade because lot of red news incoming and dont like the PA:
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Stick to the plan!
Quoting OAPDave
{quote} Terry No No No Parisboy yourself ,Santa are all great guys Without doubt P/Boy is the best guy I have ever met in this game and carries my utmost respect You yourself as worked tirelessly on your MM project and its really coming together in a great way although I run Mt4 I am keeping a close eye on your progress and I am thrilled with what I see Out of the blue I had a message from Santa, who showed me great patience in restoring my old MM software It just so happen it tied in with your present interest I was just going to keep it to myself...
Thanks so much Dave, I have found them very useful to make comparisons although I have diverted a tiny bit down the PB path. Only with time mind you, as I believe Murrey gave the option of 8,16,32,64,128 day increments, Alain suggested it didn't matter as long as the time increment was divisible by 8. That appealed to me because it makes it far easier to align vertical time lines with changes in trend.
Currently my indicator is working well and on all timeframes as far as I know. Thanks for your help.
Quoting tmpascoe
{quote} Thanks so much Dave, I have found them very useful to make comparisons although I have diverted a tiny bit down the PB path. Only with time mind you, as I believe Murrey gave the option of 8,16,32,64,128 day increments, Alain suggested it didn't matter as long as the time increment was divisible by 8. That appealed to me because it makes it far easier to align vertical time lines with changes in trend. Currently my indicator is working well and on all timeframes as far as I know. Thanks for your help.
Terry
Reply really appreciated
I am taking a different path in the new year as I like what I am seeing with stocks
So going to venture down the CFD route
The (Trends) seem to run a little more tradeable
and plenty to go at
ATM America seems to be Flying but it could be fun when there bubble bursts ?
ps
By the way
Sept 26 happens to be my Wedding Anniversary
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Quoting OAPDave
{quote} Terry Reply really appreciated I am taking a different path in the new year as I like what I am seeing with stocks So going to venture down the CFD route The (Trends) seem to run a little more tradeable and plenty to go at ATM America seems to be Flying but it could be fun when there bubble bursts ? ps By the way Sept 26 happens to be my Wedding Anniversary {image} {image}
haha sounds like you're going a bit Murrey on us!

All of my profits have come from longer term swing trading, mainly crypto but also Index funds. Just buying and selling the swings - boring but profitable
Quoting tmpascoe
{quote} Thanks so much Dave, I have found them very useful to make comparisons although I have diverted a tiny bit down the PB path. Only with time mind you, as I believe Murrey gave the option of 8,16,32,64,128 day increments, Alain suggested it didn't matter as long as the time increment was divisible by 8. That appealed to me because it makes it far easier to align vertical time lines with changes in trend. Currently my indicator is working well and on all timeframes as far as I know. Thanks for your help.
Terry, Dave all that is very refreshing ! I am back in 1998-2000 ! Where all the same questions were debated on the "Murrey" groups I followed.

The first thing to understand is that Murrey's software is NOT a "model" having to be replicated strictly. It is just a specific and limited application of what is known under the name of "Murrey Maths".

"Murrey Maths" to begin is just a fraud as a label because there is no "math" in the methodology outside of the Squaring of Price and Time - Division by 8 of the Price Range and Division by 8 of the Time Units Range. Later Murrey in his usual megalomania wanted even to copyright the division by 8 of the Price Raange , which he could not.

Murrey's software is NOT Murrey's work. It was at the beginning , when I bought it for 250$, an EOD software de facto limited to 32, 64 or 128 units visible on your screen. This "software" was developed by a German guy which lived in the Munich area (Bavaria).

This in itself is already "curious" . Why and how ? Because at the time we did not have the possibility of long videoconferences for almost zero costs and long distance foreign calls were extremely expensive.

Then how and why a guy of Nashville (Tennesse) used a german developer living in Munich (Bavaria) ? That is unanswered.

Moreover due to the Murrey software limitations (EOD only, short term range, no flexibility, no versatility, no possibility to use indicators, no user guide, no trading methodology) some guys developed add-ins for the trading platforms they used at the time. Ex Brian Mc Mullan for IB with mmxapp.

Hence the discussions on the "starting date " how many data the software was looking back to select " significant" Peaks and Lows necessary to determine the Price Range having to be divided by 8. And the traditional Trading Days / Calendar Days controversy !
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