More simple is impossible

A real shame the thread has lost its direction. Some just monopolise the thread with the same negative message over and over. I think we are all big enough to see what's in front of us instead of being belted with it over and over and over again.

PM1

Be really educational how exactly the thread has lost it's direction ?

As far as I can see with the benefit of objectivity lots of charts were posted yesterday ?

Isn't that the point of this thread ?

And then:

What is negative about pointing out the truth ?

That someone who claims 100% winning trades and only ever explained where you woulda-coulda-shoulda caught every wiggle if in this case you would have observed this, and in that case that, that someone doing that and claiming to have AT WORST Breakeven +2 trades is very obviously lying ?

What's negative about the truth ?

Trading is hard enough.

If people cannot handle simple truths the chances of making it really are absolutey 0%.

Okay, I feel the need to jump in.

I really like DashRiprock's posts. He speaks the truth, although I think he is a little bit harsh on Dee. I don't believe that he is trading without losses either, but we can surely give him credit for showing an interesting and potentially profitable way to trade. It is up to each individual to make the necessary changes to personalize the 'method'. He does not sell anything, nor ever tried to. Whether if his trades are real, we will never know. In his defense, I would not set up a TE either, unless I wanted to sell something.

Although I don't trade the way Dee does anymore, I learned a lot while participating in the thread. Everything DRP posted is really useful, it is worth reading and re-reading over and over. The way I see it, most thread participants are finding their own way of doing things, incorporating Dee's style of trading all the while making their own tweaks until the system suits them. It is up to each of individual to decide whether will they chase after the nonexistent Holy Grail, or absorb the fundamentals of successful trading and march onward.

Good post BBAlazs.

I guess really the only thing that got me back out of board retirement again was not the method as such being presented here, and very similar methods in many, many other threads here on FF I had a problem with.

Trading pullbacks in the direction of a trend always has and always will work because it's simply aligned with the way markets move, which are nothing than the sum of the buying and selling activities of it's participants.

What I completely disagreed with here because it's nothing to do with net profitable trading, was an illusion being created that certainty and perfection in trading are attainable given sufficient study of markets and with many many layers of complexity added, depending on situation ;-). In real ife you'll only ever know after the fact what would have been the perfect solution in individual trades.

An illusion leading people down the completely wrong path, a path that may lead to many places, but not net profitability

Certainty over individual outcomes and perfection are not attainable in a probability game - which is what trading is - where individual trades are always random (all it takes is regularly occurring big market player order throwing ones clever analysis right out the window), and therefore your edge can only plays itself out over the law of large numbers.

Most people aren't wired for living with the constant uncertainty that net profitable trading simply entails, and hence they will always welcome anyone singing a siren song of certainty.

However, as a Multi-Billionaire from trading who started with nothing, Paul Tudor Jones, said:

“The illusion has been created that there is an explanation for everything with the primary task to find that explanation.”
https://www.trendfollowing.com/2012/...appears-at-85/

OK, as far as I'm concerned I've said everything said there is to say on the subject, to each their own, and markets wouldn't function if we only had net profitable traders, so it's only good that the majority will always chase pipe dreams.

Good luck and all the best,

that's it from me on this thread.

(But please guys, if some is singing a siren call that sounds too good to be true, you know what the odds are, so at least ask for proof, everything else is just a waste of time, and time in life is limited ;-)

Over and out.

Nothing wrong with your spin on the way you see things at all. The only reason I say the thread has lost it's way.........have a look at the last 10 posts by yourself......they all have the same message but one.......there's emphasis on a topic and then there's belting everyone over and over again. I think we get what you're getting at........I think so.....

You had a good post a few days ago.....a constructive post......we're all here to help.....you've helped but I think we all know how you feel now.....

PM1

Haha fair enough PM1.

Like I said I'm done here now.

One very last point if I may.

Mentioned the fella here earlier I believe.

Tim Grittani.

Turned $1500,- into sthg like 3 Mill in 2 or 3 years.

He originally learned some stuff from Tim Sykes.

Who is also the real deal, also turned sthg like 10K or so into a Mill plus in a very short time.

But, and this is the point:

Grittani was trading live with Sykes...

And NOT MAKING ANY MONEY.

And this was trading with a guy who proved he knew how to make money.

It's only when you choose a setup, master it, make it completely your own, and develop COMPLETE AND TOTAL CONFIDENCE IN YOURSELF that you'll ever stand a chance.

Grittani did and turned this into a lucrative career.

Trading Nasdaq stocks these days.

Has a blog out there well worth a read, young guy who straight out of Uni turned nothing into millions.

Anyway, that's it from me here.

Good luck to you all, really mean.

If you can make it there is absolutely no better career out there.

:-)

"Good luck to you all, really mean" it !!!

:-)

Some washed out "pro traders" come to FF and try to gain cheap popularity, you'd be amazed the number of subscribers negative comments and name dropping can can earn you.

Someone really wants to help with money management? why not start a thread on money management and stop badgering people trying to learn trading techniques.
Is anybody risking your money or their money?

Wonder if Paul Tudor Jones or Ed Seykota would come to FF and start disrupting a Trading systems thread? I bet they'd start a thread to contribute from their vast and verified experience.

Talk is cheap.

Lol the point is for the umpteenth time...

THERE IS NO SECRET SAUCE to learn in trading...

Identify a trend using price action, moving averages, momentum, whatever...

Identify a pullback using your flavour of choice as per above, channels, oscillators, price action, whatever...

It doesn't matter WHAT you use...

But that right there is absolutely ALL you need METHOD wise to make it as a trader.

On your path to net profitability that is however the smallest part.

The Biggest part is learning to accept that only complete self efficacy - complete belief in your ability to be net profitable - is going to let you turn the corner, have a remote chance of making it.

Only once you learn to stand on your own feet do you stand a chance.

The biggest hurdle to overcome is learning that you will be having losing trades on an absolutely regular and recurring basis.

You have 4 types of trades:

1.: A winning trade that went by your rules. Excellent.

2.: You won but based on a trade that went against your method. Luck, bad Discipline and not good for longevity in this business.

3:.: You lost because you broke your rules. Ditto like Nr.2 above.

4.: You lost even though the trade was according to your rules. INEVITABLE IN REAL LIFE WHERE YOU ARE TRADING A PROBABILITY GAME.

John Henry is a classical trend follower who grew up on a farm and is worth 1.5 Billion US$ trading a classical trend following system where he is right maybe 30, 40 % of the time, losing 60, 70% of all trades.

Does he give a hoot ?

No.

Because like all professional traders he is in this to make money, not be right or earn bragging rights from people who do not understand what the success relevant factors in a probability game are.

Money Management ?

Simple.

Don't bet the ranch.

There are old and bold traders, but no old AND bold traders.

You will always have runs against you, and if you don't have funds to trade another day you're washed out.

Compounding 1, 2 or 3% a day (and risking no more than that) is all you need to become richer than most anybody on this planet.

Last tip:

DON't trade against CFD brokers, the prices they quote you are SOOOO far removed from reality that anyone believing they are doing that in the best interest of the customer clearly needs a, err, goooood rethink of who is who at the poker table of life. ;-)

Once you start making money with them and the more that becomes they will start making it harder and harder, and eventually impossible, for you to keep doing that.

Nothing has changed since the bucket shops of Jesse Livermores day.

Futures brokers have such great margins and commissions these days no reason to not switch as soon as you can.

Forgot to add to method above:

Ability to cut your losses and RUN YOUR WINNERS.

Simple and old truths, but 100% valid nevertheless.

Trading is NOT Rocket Science, it's very, very simple, if not always easy until you learn to tame your inner demons. Never gonna be totally possible, but one does get much better at that.

As someone here mentioned Ed Seykota and the advice he would or would not give aspiring traders, this hits the nail right on the head again.
For those who honestly haven't heard about him, he was in Market Wizards, and, normalized for withdrawals, made returns of several million percent on one of his custimer accounts:


Ed Seykota’s 6 Rules from the Whipsaw Song

1. Do not be overly concerned about whipsaws a good trend pays for them all.

A whipsaw is when you enter a position but get stopped out quickly when the market reverses opposite to your position. If you are a trend trader this may happen many times in a row in a range bound market. This can be very frustrating to a trader and it may cause them to completely change their method. The fact is that one really good trend will pay for all of these whipsaws as long as you keep your losses small, and if you change your system you lose the benefit of that big trend.

To avoid whipsaw losses, stop trading. -Ed Seykota

2. When you catch a Trend, ride it to the end.

Your system must be able to jump on a trending market, but then also be able to ride that trend to the end. Most new traders will jump out of trades before they are finished trending because they are scared the market has gone too far and will take back their paper profits. Let a trailing stop take you out of a trade when the trend is over, and only exit once you are stopped out.

The trend is your friend except at the end where it bends. -Ed Seykota

3. When you show a loss, give the loss a toss.

Every single successful trader ever interviewed as far as I have read has said something along the lines of “Cut your losses short”,”Let your winners run.” “Pull the weeds, water the flowers”.

The elements of good trading are cutting losses, cutting losses, and cutting losses. -Ed Seykota

4: We know if our risk is right when we make a lot of money, but can still sleep at night.

Risk is the amount of risk per trade: the dollars risked between your entry and your stop loss based on your position size and what percent this is of the total capital in your trading account. Also how much your total risk is in regards to how many positions you have open at one time as a capital at risk for your entire account.

Here’s the essence of risk management: Risk no more than you can afford to lose, and also risk enough so that a win is meaningful. If there is no such amount, don’t play. -Ed Seykota

5. When price breaks through, or there is a shock news announcement – DO NOTHING. Your stops are already set.

Stick with your stop losses. Do not let anything stop you from exiting a trade based on your predetermined stop.

It can be very expensive to try to convince the markets you are right. -Ed Seykota

6. When you get a drawdown (or series of losses), stick to your plan and pull the trigger on your entry signals.

A draw down in equity happens to all traders not just new traders. This is where the trader has a long string of losses or an overall losing period. If you are averaging 50% wins in your trading, you will still have a series of 1o losses at some point in your account.

Don’t change your methods in a draw down. If you have tested your system and it works, stick to it and keep taking your entry signals or you will miss that one big trend that pays for all or most of the previous losses. There is one thing here to remember – sometimes your method has to be adjusted for market volatility or if it is range bound.

It’s all about sticking to your plan and experiencing feelings as they arise. If you are unwilling to feel your feelings, the temptation is to avoid them by jumping off your system. -Ed Seykota

http://www.newtraderu.com/2011/12/11...-whipsaw-song/

Seykotas best and most valid insight, in my opinion however is this: everyone gets out of life what they really want:

"

1. Win or lose, everybody gets what they want out of the market. Some people seem to like to lose, so they win by losing money.
   1. Source: Schwager, Jack D. (Editor), Market Wizards, HarperCollins (1989), page 172, ISBN 0-88730-610-1, Read it here

1. I think that if people look deeply enough into their trading patterns, they find that, on balance, including all their goals, they are really getting what they want, even though they may not understand it or want to admit it.
   1. Source: Schwager, Market Wizards, page 172, Read it here

And this is it now from me.

Good Luck

I thought you said earlier that was your last post. Why post again?

Promised the same thing 3 pages back - but was posting again in no time !

Haha nope absolutely done wasting my time here.

Since trading boards have been around absolutely nothing has changed:

Those who don't have a chance hope and pray for finding gurus and holy grails, whilst the few that make it just get on with tackling reality and understanding that trading IS simple.

Last time here:

Good luck.

I do hope your "master" comes back so you can have some fun analysing how he woulda caught every top, bottom and wiggle in between, unfortunately only ever after the fact, in the really and truly realistic hope of actually learning sthg from that...

Sayonara

;-)

​
Don't speak for me - I am not looking for a guru or holy grail.

DAX -9 +26 +30

Do not have much to share today, missed the morning session.

tried to fade the end of midday trend a bit too early, got stopped out for -9, reentered after they spiked the stops and out at demand (and m15 area too) just before new york open. Did not take the following buy signal as I thought it would retrace a bit more, where the initial targets were placed. it as an error, as risk was so damn small. got trapped by my bias.

edit: really upset i missed the buy, setup was perfect and 10p sl.

Today's trades.

GBPJPY
+42 +45 -14 +24 = +96

Nice! Are you holding the positions longer?

Hey Jakucha!

Would you mind sharing your template, indicators, and settings?

I found a Market Profile indicator that works on Renko offline charts. I've been searching for one for a while.

The Indicator will draw market-profile style histogram data for a selected period, after you set two vertical lines. All you have to do is add the indicator to the chart and add two vertical lines. I'm still testing it out.

Figured I should share something first.