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If you read this, scammers will fear you

  • Post #1
  • Quote
  • First Post: Edited Dec 6, 2014 9:55pm Oct 17, 2014 11:09pm | Edited Dec 6, 2014 9:55pm
  •  Stinky
  • | Joined Mar 2013 | Status: Member | 196 Posts
Give con artists a run for their (your) money!


This is not a thread for outing anyone as a con artist. If you do, FF will probably suspend you. If you have any other scam filtering ideas please post them.

'Con artist' is short for 'confidence artist'. They are good at gaining your confidence (trust) so that you willingly give them your money (or whatever the deal
calls for)

The bigger the claim, the higher the probability that it is a lie. If any given person told you they had a billion dollars what would be the chances that
were true? Extremely low. So whenever you hear a big claim (and you can give them money to get in on the action), the probability that it's a lie is sky high

Possible motivations to con at FF - To get your money, to get others to improve the system that they have (you give up your time and effort)

If they make a claim, the burden of PROOF is always on them. There is no burden to make yourself believe

They need payment? You need proof

What is proof? It's not a small number of cherry picked predictions.

Don't trust posted statements because they could have been doctored

Trade Explorers can be manipulated. However, if nothing in the TE is hidden and they don't work as a broker (they can add/delete trades), you can do your own analysis

Proof needs to be specific to their sales claims, e.g. if they say their system has >90% wins, they need to prove >that< specific system has achieved such a performance through forward testing for a long enough duration. You need to be able to analyse each trade. Be wary when they say they made 500% gains because they may have conveniently left out the fact that they went into massive drawdown because they didn't use an adequate exit strategy

If your greed and/desperation is controlling you, the con artist will place it on you to believe without providing any valid evidence.

If they make an excuse to avoid providing proof, you should walk away (this is assuming that they want something from you, or there is an offer on the table). This is one of the biggest redflags

If you get a certain amount of free value from a con artist, e.g. a free system, descriptive posts, that's not proof that their sales claims are true. Especially not if they make giant claims.

A con might play the 'it's (perpetually) in development so I don't have to do anything' game, e.g. their system is always being improved so it's not ready for a performance review, so that's the excuse for not providing completely impartial proof, i.e. a TE with all features set to public.

If a TE is put up, it will likely bomb. So it will be started in conditions where there is no/minimal loss to their credibility, i.e. with a stable base of followers who believe even though there is insufficient evidence to back up the given claims. No stop loss will be used because they want to make gains fast while showing minimal losses. Competitors in trading competitions frequently use this tactic, and that's why you see their previous competition accounts have >90% drawdown. But followers will be forgiving because the system is 'in development', or they'll make up any number of other reasons to excuse the poor performance

The system being traded in the TE may bear little resemblance to what's presented in the thread. This means the TE is irrelevant, but followers will believe that it is meaningful if they see a large gain

If it's a scam, it may just appear probable that they are deceiving you, rather than it being an obvious fact. Sometimes there will be a smokescreen to conceal
the truth, i.e. they'll make it look like they are doing something else while the deception is occurring. It gives them plausible deniability if someone tries to
call them out. Gullible people will require the deception to be spelled out for them explicitly and therefore continue to be duped

Even if you are highly intelligent, allowing greed/desperation to get the better of you will cloud your thinking. Apply emotion free logic

If called out, con artists will usually remain consistent with their deception strategy so they can carry on deceiving their easier targets. The consistency makes them appear more trustworthy.

Con artists love easy targets because those people take mental short cuts, rather than think things through thoroughly and logically

If the con artist gets a commitment from you, you will tend to keep to it in order to appear consistent with that commitment. If you make up your mind that the
con artist's claims are real, you will tend to keep believing in him and give him the benefit of the doubt even when red flags keep popping up (or maybe you
won't even notice them)

One of your criteria should not be whether they can bamboozle you with words. If you don't understand them, they are probably talking gibberish and aren't
enigmatic geniuses. This presupposes that you have an intellect and education level that is similar to or better than the con artist. If you aren't all that
educated, just don't buy things that you don't understand

A red diamond status makes it easier to deceive others because some people will think a red diamond member can be trusted automatically. Red diamond status is merely a popularity rating, not an integrity rating

A large 'ignore list' is a possible redflag if they have something to sell (or may in the future)

Just because a large number of people believe something, doesn't make it true. The earth was once flat, but that was proven wrong.

Followers and con artists will often say people who don't believe are naysayers, close-minded, idiots, trolls, etc, and then dismiss everything they say. This is
a genetic fallacy, i.e. Labeling people as fundamentally defective and because of that, believe they aren't worth listening to even if their arguments are
logical

A con artist will tend to avoid debating with skeptics. If they do, they resort to ambiguity (believers will apply their own meaning), obfuscation with advanced
jargon (believers will be bamboozled), contradiction (believers will let it pass as a simple mistake), and\or lies.

A con artist may agree to give you what you want, but of course they won't deliver (at least not in full). They will delay, delay, and delay forever.

Some con artists don't make any hints that they want something from you. They'll talk a big talk and let you make the offer of paying them first. They might even feign resistance to selling anything so that it seemed like your idea to buy

A con artist may appear quite pleasant and/or helpful. This tactic helps them stay under the radar, adds another facet to their plausible deniability ('He
wouldn't do that. He's a good guy!'), and this helps them build up followers who will defend them against skeptics. One to one, this facade of innocence is a
personal defense without having to apply any effort. Normal people don't usually challenge/attack innocent people, so it often takes a long time for this type of
con to get called out

A con artist may try to inoculate followers against thinking he is a con artist/lier by suggesting that people will say things to discredit him because those
posters are egotistical or stupid. It's like giving you a vaccine so that when a skeptic arrives, followers will dismiss them and think 'Pfft, he predicted this
would happen. Troll!'

A payment is a payment is a payment, whether the con artist calls it a commitment, a donation, or whatever. If you're giving money and then getting
goods/services, that's a purchase. They only call it something else to lessen psychological resistance to buying

If you pay the con artist and you aren't making money from his system, he'll likely blame your ability to trade the system rather than the system itself. They
will probably point out that other (fictitious) people are doing fine

Don't trust a person's answers to be honest if their honesty is in question

Scams are built on trust. How did they get your trust?
  • Post #2
  • Quote
  • Oct 18, 2014 8:58am Oct 18, 2014 8:58am
  •  robertrfx
  • | Joined Dec 2012 | Status: Member | 650 Posts
Very good reading here. Totally agree with you here
 
 
  • Post #3
  • Quote
  • Oct 18, 2014 5:32pm Oct 18, 2014 5:32pm
  •  Stinky
  • | Joined Mar 2013 | Status: Member | 196 Posts
Quoting robertrfx
Disliked
Very good reading here. Totally agree with you here
Ignored
Thanks robertrfx
 
 
  • Post #4
  • Quote
  • Oct 20, 2014 2:12am Oct 20, 2014 2:12am
  •  normtold
  • | Joined Jan 2011 | Status: Member | 733 Posts
Hi Stinky, great read.

You seem to have a fantastic grasp of Forex.

I understand you have picked a select, lucky few to teach for free and you have a private forum.
I believe everything you say and please don't listen to all the negative comments.
Is there anyway that I can join your group? I will follow the rules and any costs you may incur for your time.
 
 
  • Post #5
  • Quote
  • Oct 20, 2014 9:04am Oct 20, 2014 9:04am
  •  muhitalam
  • | Commercial Member | Joined Oct 2014 | 86 Posts
I agree with you & thanks for this posting
 
 
  • Post #6
  • Quote
  • Oct 20, 2014 3:47pm Oct 20, 2014 3:47pm
  •  Stinky
  • | Joined Mar 2013 | Status: Member | 196 Posts
Quoting normtold
Disliked
Hi Stinky, great read. You seem to have a fantastic grasp of Forex. I understand you have picked a select, lucky few to teach for free and you have a private forum. I believe everything you say and please don't listen to all the negative comments. Is there anyway that I can join your group? I will follow the rules and any costs you may incur for your time.
Ignored
Quoting muhitalam
Disliked
I agree with you & thanks for this posting
Ignored
Thanks normtold and muhitalam

normtold I don't have a fantastic grasp of forex and there aren't any lucky few who I teach in a private forum
 
 
  • Post #7
  • Quote
  • Oct 20, 2014 3:58pm Oct 20, 2014 3:58pm
  •  2+2=4ex
  • Joined Mar 2009 | Status: Trader | 6,418 Posts
Okay, now that you have everyone's trust, what do you want? :-)
 
 
  • Post #8
  • Quote
  • Oct 20, 2014 4:59pm Oct 20, 2014 4:59pm
  •  Stinky
  • | Joined Mar 2013 | Status: Member | 196 Posts
Quoting 2+2=4ex
Disliked
Okay, now that you have everyone's trust, what do you want? :-)
Ignored
Hmmm, can I have... A BILLION dollars?
 
 
  • Post #9
  • Quote
  • Oct 23, 2014 1:53am Oct 23, 2014 1:53am
  •  muhitalam
  • | Commercial Member | Joined Oct 2014 | 86 Posts
Quoting Stinky
Disliked
{quote} {quote} Thanks normtold and muhitalam normtold I don't have a fantastic grasp of forex and there aren't any lucky few who I teach in a private forum
Ignored
Hello Stinky,

I just check out your profile. it`s seems you are senior here. So lets give some tips how to be a good trader. If senor don`t help then how we become a good trader LoL.....I found you are funny .....lets Rock on trade
 
 
  • Post #10
  • Quote
  • Edited 2:51am Oct 23, 2014 2:30am | Edited 2:51am
  •  Kong
  • | Additional Username | Joined Sep 2014 | 330 Posts
A short way into my trading education I developed one core philosophy which definitely was a key part for me in reaching "trader" status; Follow No One

If you want to be a trader you're going to need to (learn to) think for yourself, fend for your self, organize yourself. Sure it's good to take ideas if you feel you need them, but always keep yourself as number one. Your goal should be to develop your own trading method, system, philosophies, and ideas.

When you're new you will need to feed off others for a while to get you going but you're the boss in this, and no one can ever sell you what you truely need to succeed.

Best of Luck
 
 
  • Post #11
  • Quote
  • Oct 23, 2014 5:09am Oct 23, 2014 5:09am
  •  Phatori Gal
  • Joined Jan 2012 | Status: &#30427;&#25918;&#30340;&#23395;&#33410; | 310 Posts
Quoting Kong
Disliked
A short way into my trading education I developed one core philosophy which definitely was a key part for me in reaching "trader" status; Follow No One If you want to be a trader you're going to need to (learn to) think for yourself, fend for your self, organize yourself. Sure it's good to take ideas if you feel you need them, but always keep yourself as number one. Your goal should be to develop your own trading method, system, philosophies, and ideas. When you're new you will need to feed off others for a while to get you going but you're the...
Ignored
Hey Kong,
I completely agree with your statement above - in order to achieve that, one have to go through so much growing and commitment to the tasks. And a lot of times this preparation may or may not pay out - it doesn't matter how much we learn and prepared -if the demons of Fear is sitting on our shoulders, it would freeze us from executing perfectly like what we say we will do in our plan; so once we have our own trading method, system, philosophies and ideas - our first battle is to kill our own demons - with detachment by focusing even more on risk and money management - then something radical shall happen.

“Embrace nothing:
If you meet the Buddha, kill the Buddha.
If you meet your father, kill your father.
Only live your life as it is,
Not bound to anything.”

― Gautama Siddharta
Dedication brings Satisfaction and Success.
 
 
  • Post #12
  • Quote
  • Oct 23, 2014 5:33am Oct 23, 2014 5:33am
  •  Kong
  • | Additional Username | Joined Sep 2014 | 330 Posts
Quoting Phatori Gal
Disliked
{quote} Hey Kong, I completely agree with your statement above - in order to achieve that, one have to go through so much growing and commitment to the tasks. And a lot of times this preparation may or may not pay out - it doesn't matter how much we learn and prepared -if the demons of Fear is sitting on our shoulders, it would freeze us from executing perfectly like what we say we will do in our plan; so once we have our own trading method, system, philosophies and ideas - our first battle is to kill our own demons - with detachment by focusing..

“Embrace nothing:
If you meet the Buddha, kill the Buddha.
If you meet your father, kill your father.
Only live your life as it is,
Not bound to anything.”
.
Ignored
I love this quote, would make a nice tatt! Obviously not to be taken literally but the metaphorical picture painted here is definetly the tits imo... ty

Yep, and it goes further than just psychology, you also need to become a qualified market mechanic imo
 
 
  • Post #13
  • Quote
  • Oct 23, 2014 7:12am Oct 23, 2014 7:12am
  •  griffinssoul
  • Joined Aug 2014 | Status: Membership Terminated | 4,544 Posts
Quoting Stinky
Disliked
Give con artists a run for their (your) money! ...
Ignored
Hi Stinky, Many thanks to you & other senior traders who show duty of care for newbie traders. Motivated by a recent interaction [no details provided] I decided to show that any trader (with a given level of experience) can manually (no EA's needed) generate artificial, positive, results. Please see trading forms below. Within a few hours (while eating my dinner and enjoying a cool beverage) I managed to generate 14000$ off a demo 50000$ account. Surely, I must be the greatest trader that ever lived . Far from it - as we know this is completely distinct from actually trading with hard-earned money - your money! I guess the moral of the story is - don't believe everything you see as the truth and nothing but the truth...
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  • Post #14
  • Quote
  • Oct 23, 2014 7:20am Oct 23, 2014 7:20am
  •  moouseiah1
  • | Joined Oct 2008 | Status: Member | 97 Posts
Very wise words

Quoting Kong
Disliked
A short way into my trading education I developed one core philosophy which definitely was a key part for me in reaching "trader" status; Follow No One If you want to be a trader you're going to need to (learn to) think for yourself, fend for your self, organize yourself. Sure it's good to take ideas if you feel you need them, but always keep yourself as number one. Your goal should be to develop your own trading method, system, philosophies, and ideas. When you're new you will need to feed off others for a while to get you going but you're the...
Ignored
 
 
  • Post #15
  • Quote
  • Oct 23, 2014 7:44am Oct 23, 2014 7:44am
  •  Kong
  • | Additional Username | Joined Sep 2014 | 330 Posts
Thanks shap ! Wisdom cannot be bought or aquired. That shit is earned
Quoting messiah01
Disliked
Very wise words {quote}
Ignored
ALWAYS respect your elders.
 
 
  • Post #16
  • Quote
  • Last Post: Oct 23, 2014 4:20pm Oct 23, 2014 4:20pm
  •  Stinky
  • | Joined Mar 2013 | Status: Member | 196 Posts
Quoting muhitalam
Disliked
{quote} Hello Stinky, I just check out your profile. it`s seems you are senior here. So lets give some tips how to be a good trader. If senor don`t help then how we become a good trader LoL.....I found you are funny .....lets Rock on trade
Ignored
I'm not a senior, nor am I a good trader There are several members who have decided to present their systems for free. I don't know how effective they are. But since they are free, it would be up to you to do your own testing.


Quoting Kong
Disliked
A short way into my trading education I developed one core philosophy which definitely was a key part for me in reaching "trader" status; Follow No One If you want to be a trader you're going to need to (learn to) think for yourself, fend for your self, organize yourself. Sure it's good to take ideas if you feel you need them, but always keep yourself as number one. Your goal should be to develop your own trading method, system, philosophies, and ideas. When you're new you will need to feed off others for a while to get you going but you're the...
Ignored
Cheers to that!


Quoting griffinssoul
Disliked
{quote} Hi Stinky, Many thanks to you & other senior traders who show duty of care for newbie traders. Motivated by a recent interaction [no details provided] I decided to show that any trader (with a given level of experience) can manually (no EA's needed) generate artificial, positive, results. Please see trading forms below. Within a few hours (while eating my dinner and enjoying a cool beverage) I managed to generate 14000$ off a demo 50000$ account. Surely, I must be the greatest trader that ever lived . Far from it - as we know this...
Ignored
Yep, only believe things that have been verified, and verified properly. Cheers!
 
 
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