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System design and some tough thoughts on trading FX...

  • Post #1
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  • First Post: Mar 23, 2006 10:59am Mar 23, 2006 10:59am
  •  Fanat
  • | Joined Nov 2005 | Status: Member | 40 Posts
In the current times technical analysis (TA) is being used side by side, if not almost completely replacing Fundamental Analysis in the Forex. As Dr. Elder has said, "the prices are tighted to Fundamentals by a mile long rubberband". We could say that knowledge of TA is a must for a forex speculator, without which, unfortunately we have nothing to do in the highly volatile and/or leveraged markets. TA is a method, a trigger that helps people to make a choice whether to buy or to sell. We are constantly bombarded with the cases of people getting rich through TA. But TA has a lot of problems, inconsistencies and its usefulness is in serious doubt.
I, and many good researchers done lots of tests on TA and candlestick analysis and the results have been not good. There were numerous studies that have shown that many TA methods simply do not work when they are applied to out of sample data or when one of the parameters is tweaked. I loved the fact that I took programming in school as it gave me the opportunity to personally witness many MTS’s that worked well for one period, have totally bombed ever since. Many people try to fit the system to the market (it is great that they aren’t fitting the results to their system). The vast majority of experienced traders might object and say that the fault lies in the USER and not TA per se. However from my humble point of view that TA is flawed in a sense that it analyses the CHART and not the currency pair in question. It’s ideology can be faulty, especially when it’s area of study has changed.

When a neophyte trader sees a figure on a chart he screams “Look at this XYZ pattern, SELL SELL SELL as the market is going to change direction.”. Question, why does the artifical and greatly filtered pattern on a chart moves the price? A wise trader should ask himself “what is the process behind that footprints that is unfolding? Will this process cause a correction or a reversal?”
The lack of deep thought into the essence of the process of price formation has caused many gross errors to be committed.
1) Same indicators are used for totally different markets. Stocks, Commodities, Equities and Forex are totally different markets with totally different process yet use the same indicators. To a newbie a stock chart and a forex chart may look the same, but with a deep analysis you will be able to tell major differences and nuances present in them.
2) Researchers are unable to determine the exact nature of the market. Is it artificial, fractal or natural phenomenon?
3)Traders have played too much with combination of indicators without thinking about what exactly that is accomplishing. For example the Elder force indicator where price difference is multiplied by the volume. What the heck? Why take two unrelated things and just combining them in frankensteinan combination? If you have John, Dick and George and give them 2 apples each, then you have 6 apples (2x3=6). What about how many total apples will they have if you ace of spades? It doesn’t make sense to mix and match indicators and formula’s to fit the curve.
4th) Very non-serious handling of time when graphing and plotting indicators. In forex 2 trading days are missing making calculation based on time and price difficult on Sunday. How exactly does the gap in time play out on your indicators? Btw, trading in forex happens during the weekends but most brokers do not show the data making indicators show not 100% correct data on late Sundays.
5) Exactly what do the indicators show and exactly how is it helpful? Lets talk about trendlines for example, what does a 40 degree trendline means in terms of price changes, and why does it has to be strait? We know that prices doesn’t rise in strait lines, they like to slope, it is a non-linear process… But the method of building non-linear,exponential and parabolic lines isn’t as simple as connection 3 dots, which is taught in middle school, which brings me to a comment. Many of the indicators have very questionable origins and their authors (WD Gann, Elliot, etc). Many creators of indicators were psychologists, maybe even farmers, but not top level scientists. Gann certainly couldn’t survive by using his indicators, he had to sell it.

The indicator values often have to be changed when the indicator stops working (which happens all the time). The trading greats advise us to use half the numbers of bars in the trend for the oscillator value… Hmm… Sounds like fitting the curve to me and if the cycles actually repeated, then we would be rich… Why, RSI for example, should be have a parameter of 9, why not 10 or 8? Why does 200 ema is considered to be an awesome trending indicator? Why 200 and not 199, 260, or 198?

What exactly does lets say ema 6and12 crossover exactly tell us? And why is it 6&12 and not 5&11 or 7&13? And is that SMA, EMA, WMA, LWMA, based on close, Low, High, H+L/2,H+L+C/3, O+H+L+C/4 or some other one (already 16 different types of MA’s without changing numbers and displacement)?

There are many systems out there that use different indicator values, so what? What does LWMA tells you that SMA doesn’t? Why 9 and not 10? What objective characteristic of a process is your indicator showing and how does it apply in the real world? I can understand using Fibonacci, atleast it has a natural basis…. But LWMA crossovers? Or Schaff Trend Cycles?

When lets say railroad tracks on the top, appear, the conventional literature says to sell as traders changed directions? Really? Maybe it was just large players unloading some of the positions while us, bargain hunters trying to add additional lots at cheaper price?

Few comments about Psychology. Many psychologists say that market is a mass psychology…. If people with the most capital make the most influence on the market, then unlike small speculators, they will have their emotions under better control than your average gambler Joe down the street. Professionals are like expert poker players, their professional attitude helps them win and it keeps them from acting irrational most if not all of the time. So expecting irrational or deeply speculative moves will not happen today.

Money management: It is crucial, I do not argue with that. However it is overrated. Since your % win is can be almost meaningless in sub-infinite number of traders, your exact betting size can never be perfect. Example, lets say you are super trader with 80% winners. 80% of of 100 = 80 winners, and 20 losers. Out of 1000, you can have 200 losing traders. Out of 10,000, you will have 2000 loosing trades. Question, is it possible to get 10 losers (or more) in a row? Of course. If you bet too little, then your trading isn’t really profitable and you should do something else, if you bet too much then you could be flushed out at any time… A tough choice to make… Setting take profit twice the distance of stop loss doesn't help either, you just get stopped out twice as often and setting risk/reward setting to 1/2 doesn't help as well (your losses will be 2 as big as your winners.)

Now lets get to the meat and the bone of designing a trading system. I have read MANY books but have not found a systematic approach in them. We have a triple screen by Elder, some ema trend (alligator) by Williams, some scalping from Zoltan, some divergence strategies from other authors, Breakout systems, countertrend systems, etc.

For example initial questions in system design can be:
Which currency pair to trade? Which currency has strong and objective characteristics? Many people simply say to trade the Euro as it has the smallest spread. Unless you are seriously into scalping then, So what? If you take pip value and spread cost into consideration, then GBP/JPY intraday could potentially bring much more profit than Euro, even though its spread is 10 vs 3 pips for Euro. But these things regarding volatility can be meaningless if you cannot use it properly and soberly for your trades.
A very non-volitile currency with huge spread, can potentially bring more profit to you simply because of exploitation of leverage and its moving capabilities. Just because majority use Euro, does not mean that it has to be used by you. Majority loses, so maybe you need to be smarter than that?

How long is the optimum (for profit) holding period?
From one point of view the more trades back and forth you make, the more profit you can make. I have a statement of a trader who made 2400% in 23 hours. Also another expert on scalping says that 10% increase in deposit per day is the goal of a scalper. I think that we all saw contests results where traders have been making 100s of percents each week through short term trading. Obviously from those results, scalping has a potential, but in which direction? Making 5+ scalps per day can cost you 36,000$ which is 360% of standard 10K deposit, an average size because scalping attracts beginners and newbies who have little capital. On another extreme is long term position trading on the Forex… As someone has said “There are no long term trends in the Forex”. A proof is in the charts, go open up monthly charts for currencies such as Pound, Yen, Swiss for the last 30 years. Case settled.
Any points to discuss any opinions?

  • Post #2
  • Quote
  • Mar 23, 2006 5:42pm Mar 23, 2006 5:42pm
  •  Zazzy
  • | Joined Nov 2005 | Status: Member | 97 Posts
I share most of opinions about indicators but one: Force Index is powerful - unfortunately volume is not that obvious value in forex - oanda doesnt provide this statistics and I believe I could peform much better having such data feed (any idea how can I get it?)

All "regular" indicators transform price into some value. Well.... what for? If we take 3 guys and try to estimate how much $ they have on their bank accounts, we might want to put them on their heads and it might look interesting but there are still the same guys. You still have the same source information - no wonder we cannot work anything NEW out of it!

Force index takes extra information into consideration - the volume. In our example we see not only 3 guys but also 3 cars they own - no need to say now we have MORE source information and our estimation will certainly be more accurate.

This is the only indicator I ever found really useful but I dont use it since I couldnt find anywhere volume information so far.

I trade looking only at price then! SO far I saw no book advising something like that. Broken rule

My MM has also been criticised many times here, and I know I risk far to much (over 80% every day) if I keep in mind the book golden rules about 5%. So what? I doubled my 1 January account few days ago. Of course, there is nothing for free - I trade and I am not happy till the last position is closed - I am under heavy stress. But that is just another example of broken rule - I piss on the rules so far my own rules work!

All this books selling the truth... I think everyone should invest much time and money to read them, test them, then make some break to forget them and start over with OWN ideas. For me it worked. Will see if I survive till december
time is money! Z
 
 
  • Post #3
  • Quote
  • Mar 25, 2006 10:29am Mar 25, 2006 10:29am
  •  smjones
  • Joined Mar 2006 | Status: THANK YOU MERLIN,TWEE and FF Team | 4,603 Posts
Quoting Zazzy
Disliked
I share most of opinions about indicators but one: Force Index is powerful - unfortunately volume is not that obvious value in forex - oanda doesnt provide this statistics and I believe I could peform much better having such data feed (any idea how can I get it?)

All "regular" indicators transform price into some value. Well.... what for? If we take 3 guys and try to estimate how much $ they have on their bank accounts, we might want to put them on their heads and it might look interesting but there are still the same guys. You still have the same source information - no wonder we cannot work anything NEW out of it!

Force index takes extra information into consideration - the volume. In our example we see not only 3 guys but also 3 cars they own - no need to say now we have MORE source information and our estimation will certainly be more accurate.

This is the only indicator I ever found really useful but I dont use it since I couldnt find anywhere volume information so far.

I trade looking only at price then! SO far I saw no book advising something like that. Broken rule

My MM has also been criticised many times here, and I know I risk far to much (over 80% every day) if I keep in mind the book golden rules about 5%. So what? I doubled my 1 January account few days ago. Of course, there is nothing for free - I trade and I am not happy till the last position is closed - I am under heavy stress. But that is just another example of broken rule - I piss on the rules so far my own rules work!

All this books selling the truth... I think everyone should invest much time and money to read them, test them, then make some break to forget them and start over with OWN ideas. For me it worked. Will see if I survive till december
Ignored
Hi Zazzy,

Well, isn't the cash futures markets a proxy for the spot Forex market? I know that the near contracts for various currencies have data on volume of purchases short and long. One has to be careful, though, because of the way spot currencies are paired you could have the Forex move in exactly the opposite direction as the future contract.

This information is available with a google search. I know there are sites you can subscribe to that have this data. Also, Commercial Traders are required by Federal law to disclose their net positions every week, I believe.

Thanks SMJ
 
 
  • Post #4
  • Quote
  • Mar 25, 2006 10:36am Mar 25, 2006 10:36am
  •  Bemac
  • Joined Jan 2006 | Status: Monarch o' the Glen | 5,561 Posts
Quoting Zazzy
Disliked

This is the only indicator I ever found really useful but I dont use it since I couldnt find anywhere volume information so far.
Ignored
Hi Zazzy,

CMS/VT Trader has volume on FX pairs. You may want to check it out.
B
 
 
  • Post #5
  • Quote
  • Mar 25, 2006 1:40pm Mar 25, 2006 1:40pm
  •  WTB
  • | Commercial Member | Joined Sep 2005 | 1,118 Posts
And how exactly do they determine such volume? as far as I know, it's not possible to know for certain as it is not a centralized market.
 
 
  • Post #6
  • Quote
  • Mar 25, 2006 1:47pm Mar 25, 2006 1:47pm
  •  smjones
  • Joined Mar 2006 | Status: THANK YOU MERLIN,TWEE and FF Team | 4,603 Posts
Quoting WTB
Disliked
And how exactly do they determine such volume? as far as I know, it's not possible to know for certain as it is not a centralized market.
Ignored
WTB,

Who is your question directed to? If you mean the currency futures, that is a centralized market. the Data can be tracked on Barry Lee's site http://www.cot-futures.com/cot/index.htm. Of course if you are not a member it is a month old. for the membership of 4.95 per month it is put out every friday.

Thanks SMJ
 
 
  • Post #7
  • Quote
  • Edited 1:56pm Mar 25, 2006 1:48pm | Edited 1:56pm
  •  Bemac
  • Joined Jan 2006 | Status: Monarch o' the Glen | 5,561 Posts
Quoting WTB
Disliked
And how exactly do they determine such volume? as far as I know, it's not possible to know for certain as it is not a centralized market.
Ignored
I'm not sure exactly how they do it but I would imagine it would be the same as any stock market calculates volume for a particular stock that has related listings on other markets. They don't care about what's happening on the other market. Only their own. If it's moving up on one market, then It's moving up on the other. If that's not true, then I'm definately going back to have another look at all the discussions on Arbitrage Trading.

ps. but if you like, I could ask them.
 
 
  • Post #8
  • Quote
  • Mar 25, 2006 5:36pm Mar 25, 2006 5:36pm
  •  Zazzy
  • | Joined Nov 2005 | Status: Member | 97 Posts
Quoting Bemac
Disliked
Hi Zazzy,

CMS/VT Trader has volume on FX pairs. You may want to check it out.
B
Ignored
Bemac, great help! Thanks a lot!
time is money! Z
 
 
  • Post #9
  • Quote
  • Mar 25, 2006 6:12pm Mar 25, 2006 6:12pm
  •  Claude
  • | Joined Mar 2005 | Status: Member | 88 Posts
Hello

the volume that Metatrader and VT use is tick volume.
tick volume is used as a substitute. Tick volume is the number of changes in price regardless of volume that occur during any given time interval. The reason why tick volume relates to actual volume is that, as markets become more active, prices change back and forth more often.

So it can be used quite simuler to regular volume. But it has no representation on how many lots have actually been traded. Just that price, has moved. It would be sort of like looking at a tick chart.and counting every tick that occurs during a 30 minute bar you are looking at.
A truly wise man, always has more questions than answers.
 
 
  • Post #10
  • Quote
  • Edited 2:07pm Mar 26, 2006 2:00pm | Edited 2:07pm
  •  Pipsta
  • | Joined Sep 2005 | Status: pip whisperer | 361 Posts
Hey there. Interesting post to say the least. Don't take any of my points personal as I'm not trying to be personal about it. Pardon my parsing of your text but it will be easier to speak to certain points this way.
Quoting Fanat
Disliked
As Dr. Elder has said, "the prices are tighted to Fundamentals by a mile long rubberband".
Ignored
That is an incredible quote right there. Other than the possible mistaken word usage by you as 'prices are tied' makes more sense than 'tighted'. I'll start by saying I agree. Market price is tied to fundamentals by a rubber band, technicals look at the dynamics of the stretched rubber band and it's bounce.
Quote
Disliked
TA has a lot of problems, inconsistencies and its usefulness is in serious doubt.
I, and many good researchers done lots of tests on TA and candlestick analysis and the results have been not good.
The doubt is just your own and those that share it with you. It's an opinion and I have my own. I have my account as my testimony and there are others on this forum who have success in the only 'test' that matters. The live account test!
Quote
Disliked
Many people try to fit the system to the market (it is great that they aren’t fitting the results to their system). The vast majority of experienced traders might object and say that the fault lies in the USER and not TA per se. However from my humble point of view that TA is flawed in a sense that it analyses the CHART and not the currency pair in question. It’s ideology can be faulty, especially when it’s area of study has changed.
Any good trader will try to fit their system to the market. The next quotes make me believe you don't really understand what TA is. IMHO your perception of TA is flawed. TA doesn't 'analyse' the chart, the trader analyses the chart, TA displays specific data in a specific way. It doesn't 'analyse' anything. It's not faulty unless it isn't displaying the correct data or is displaying it incorrectly. Markets change so therefore a trader needs to change with it. TA doesn't have an ideology, traders do.
Quote
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When a neophyte trader sees a figure on a chart he screams “Look at this XYZ pattern, SELL SELL SELL as the market is going to change direction.”. Question, why does the artifical and greatly filtered pattern on a chart moves the price? A wise trader should ask himself “what is the process behind that footprints that is unfolding? Will this process cause a correction or a reversal?”
TA doesn't make the move happen like you postulate traders think it does. It tracks the specific data that the trader uses to help them trade.
Quote
Disliked
1) Same indicators are used for totally different markets. Stocks, Commodities, Equities and Forex are totally different markets with totally different process yet use the same indicators. To a newbie a stock chart and a forex chart may look the same, but with a deep analysis you will be able to tell major differences and nuances present in them.
That's why there are thousands of different indicators. Yet I only use a few. I found the ones that work for me, for the market I'm trading and the pairs I trade.
Quote
Disliked
2) Researchers are unable to determine the exact nature of the market. Is it artificial, fractal or natural phenomenon?
Let me clear this up for you and all 'researchers' who seem to be perplexed with markets, any market. The exact nature of markets is buying and selling. That's it, nothing more. How a person decides to buy or sell is a different matter altogether but doesn't influence the market unless the trader either buys or sells.
Quote
Disliked
3)Traders have played too much with combination of indicators without thinking about what exactly that is accomplishing. For example the Elder force indicator where price difference is multiplied by the volume. What the heck? Why take two unrelated things and just combining them in frankensteinan combination? If you have John, Dick and George and give them 2 apples each, then you have 6 apples (2x3=6). What about how many total apples will they have if you ace of spades? It doesn’t make sense to mix and match indicators and formula’s to fit the curve.
TA displays specific data. A traders decides that they can track the market more closely by using a few different types of data. If they find that certain happenings coincide with each other there might be a chance to integrate both of the data into one indicator. You can make up some random sentence to show how ubsurd it sounds but you aren't really representing anything other than your own misunderstanding.
Quote
Disliked
4th) Very non-serious handling of time when graphing and plotting indicators. In forex 2 trading days are missing making calculation based on time and price difficult on Sunday. How exactly does the gap in time play out on your indicators? Btw, trading in forex happens during the weekends but most brokers do not show the data making indicators show not 100% correct data on late Sundays.
Which is why I resist trading on sundays. But if you look closely you will find that price action of sunday often will follow the patterns set on friday even with after-market trading.
Quote
Disliked
5) Exactly what do the indicators show and exactly how is it helpful? Lets talk about trendlines for example, what does a 40 degree trendline means in terms of price changes, and why does it has to be strait? We know that prices doesn’t rise in strait lines, they like to slope, it is a non-linear process.
More evidence that I'm not sure you understand what TA is. You can try and construe that a trendline is stating by it's straightness that it says price moves straight. Although anyone who has understanding about trendlines will see this statement for what it is. When you actually use a trendline and understand how to use them you see that in non-linear fashion as you so clearly point out, the price will approach and test a trendline. It could be hours, days, months even years down the road. After a multitude of ups, downs, and sideways, through countless trends of different magnitude and direction. The trendline itself has risen or sank yet the market price will bounce off this linear line or if it breaks throught this line it often signals a breakout. Go figure huh...
Quote
Disliked
The indicator values often have to be changed when the indicator stops working (which happens all the time). The trading greats advise us to use half the numbers of bars in the trend for the oscillator value… Hmm… Sounds like fitting the curve to me and if the cycles actually repeated, then we would be rich… Why, RSI for example, should be have a parameter of 9, why not 10 or 8? Why does 200 ema is considered to be an awesome trending indicator? Why 200 and not 199, 260, or 198?
Markets are always changing, so a trader should be ready to change with. My strategy that worked a year ago might not work as well today. Does that make TA useless? Hardly. TA will let me know that the patterns are changing and how they are changing. Does FA have an impeccable track record for predicting the market movements? No it doesn't. So FA is useless? A carpenter has many tools that they use. If they use a hammer where a saw is needed the job won't be done right. Does that make the hammer or saw useless or faulty? Some like a heavier hammer, some like a lighter hammer. Some like a fiberglass handle, some wooden, some like the old fashioned manual hammer, some like a power nail driver. It's just a matter of finding what works best for the trader and the market. I've met traders that love Elliot waves and can pick the market to very well, but I have no real understanding of Elliot waves and how to count them. I use trendlines and can track the market very well. Others use custom methods that are really just regurgitation of what has been used before them. We can get the same market signals using a wide variety of strategies and be trading in very similiar positions.
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Disliked
Setting take profit twice the distance of stop loss doesn't help either, you just get stopped out twice as often and setting risk/reward setting to 1/2 doesn't help as well (your losses will be 2 as big as your winners.)
Your reasoning is abit off on this. Just because my stop might be half my limit does not mean I'm going to be stopped out twice as much. There is no correlation between the two. My personal limits are 4 and 5 times my stops and yet I still seem to average better than 50% winners on my trades. It's actually closer to 75%. If I have my stops too tight and not entered the position in the optimal level I could find that I get stopped more often. But risk/reward ratio isn't the determining factor in such a case.

I may not be the great mathematician or programmer others are in this forum or in the trading feild. I'm just a successful trader that attempts to keep things as simple as possible because what it all really comes down to is a coin flip. I just put myself in the best position to profit from it.
 
 
  • Post #11
  • Quote
  • Mar 26, 2006 6:34pm Mar 26, 2006 6:34pm
  •  Pipsta
  • | Joined Sep 2005 | Status: pip whisperer | 361 Posts
I've returned because I Had intended to add other ideas that were forgotten by me.

One on TA. Almost every single indicator, save for volatility and volume ones, are based just on the same 4 things. Open, close, high, low. No matter how many timeframes or size of them of you use, no matter how many ways you arrange them. You can slice them, dice them, refract them, weight them, whatever, it's those same 4 things nearly every indicator is based on. There some thing about that fact that brings some sort of beauty to TA. It's like taking 8 notes and every musical expression that ever existed and ever happens is made from just those 8 notes.....actually there's only 7, but who's counting...

Second point is on FA. FA is a funny thing. It ranges from every single data news day(ironic that it's technical data that creates fundamental pressure) that has a huge emotionally based move. To the way that the usddollar has using the petrodollar to keep itself from bitchslapped. Back in 04 right at Christmas the eur/usd hit all time highs and everyone was talking like 1.40 was a foregone conclusion. that rate was at those levels partly because of the wintertime weakness of the yearly cycle with the usd, it was partly because the economy was still hurting(it still is) in the US and there was also another reason I'll get to later.. The wintertime weakness is oil related coupled with consumer spending for the holidays. I saw at that point that selling the fiber was the way to go. So I began shorting anything over 1.35 with the intent of seeing it hit 1.20 by the summer. I was one of very few who thought that at the time. I just recognized that the speculators were the only ones who I was really communicating with. Their share of the volume is possibly around 10% so I knew that I could have all them me tell me I'm wrong and still succeed.

How did I come up with the levels of 1.20 and not 1.25 or 1.30 as the center of the range for summertime? Technicals. Why did the price decide to stay attached to 1.20 and not rise back over 1.25 up to 1.30 after the retracement? Fundamentals. All-time highs on oil prices have kept the dollar afloat with the petrodollar implications. Now that the summer is coming again and oil will rise in price I suspect the fiber will drop below the 1.20 level, spend more time there and we could see another 200ema touch on the weekly chart. Unless the price gets a jolt from fundamental pressure.

The big one I'm watching for is the threatening of the petrodollar. As in Iran starting a market for oil that involves many arab nations that want euros for their oil. Can you say 1.50 in two years, possibly one.....the first and last country to accept euros for their oil was Iraq just before the war we're in right now. Whawhawhawhat?:surprised(south park) Coincidence isn't it? In fact I wonder if the fact that the United States(actually it's corporations) had to purchase oil in euros when Iraq did that had an impact on eur/usd price(amoung other things...coughwarcough). They had to exchange usd for eur and that would impact the exchange rate. Now imagine the consequences of the whole world having access to the majority of pumped oil without having to exhchange for usd anymore. As a forex trader I say 'ka-ching!' The US as a whole would be hit so hard it will shock them in disbelief. Of course I'll be stinking rich and someone will blame misfortune on me.

Woops off course there for a minute. So in conclusion. FA and TA work hand in hand to create the reasons for why traders do what they do. For me, day in and day out TA is the thing I use as my 'tools of the trade'. FA is merely a necessary function of market to be aware of in my opinion. I don't use it everyday to make me money but if I ignore it everyday it will contribute to me losing money. I also acknowledge being privey to the forces of FA can give a trader an additional edge.
 
 
  • Post #12
  • Quote
  • Mar 29, 2006 3:22am Mar 29, 2006 3:22am
  •  Profitsee
  • | Joined Mar 2006 | Status: Profitsee | 48 Posts
Quoting Fanat
Disliked
A very non-volitile currency with huge spread, can potentially bring more profit to you simply because of exploitation of leverage and its moving capabilities.
Ignored
What excellent questions and observations!
I was confused about your obsevation above, however Forgive me, but how does a pair potentially bring more profit based upon the exploitation of leverage and its moving capabilities? If its non-volitile in your example, then its not moving. All the currency pairs are leveraged, so such a pair would be leverage like any oher currency pair. Thanks!
Profitsee - Knowing the future is not enough.
 
 
  • Post #13
  • Quote
  • Mar 29, 2006 5:54am Mar 29, 2006 5:54am
  •  QuestionGuy
  • | Joined Sep 2005 | Status: Junior | 32 Posts


Fanat,
What is your take about the probabilistic approach/viewpoint that Vegas and others hint to when talking about 'a marble game' ?IMHO it is a key point, given that, as Joe Ross beautifully says 'My trading philosophy is to make money'.


Quoting Pipsta
Disliked
The exact nature of markets is buying and selling. That's it, nothing more.
Ignored
I agree, wholeheartedly, after not so little reading and researching, through the wonderful realms of fractal dynamics and much less but some digging into EMH/MPT. As I see it it's all in the trader's (and trader is the keyword) mind, I'm not paid to tell the nature of chaos, there are some smart guys who are, I just want to profit from it.
When Mark Douglas says 'you don't have to know what will happen next to make money in the markets' it's my understanding that what he refers to is 'the marble game'. If you can find, and I swear you can, an edge, whatever that means for you, with some statistical significance, then you have what you actually need (well at least I do).
I deeply respect and enjoy all the mathematical/scientific research about financial markets, but as of today, being an individual trading with a speculative mindset, I have really never needed it, and to be honest, each time I begin to ask myself about the 'true'(?) nature of markets, or why I should trust methods which at times look a bit like shamanic divination I get a little confused.

My one powerful deconfuser ? Money.
Happy Trading

QG
 
 
  • Post #14
  • Quote
  • Mar 29, 2006 11:30am Mar 29, 2006 11:30am
  •  Fanat
  • | Joined Nov 2005 | Status: Member | 40 Posts
Quoting Claude
Disliked
Hello

the volume that Metatrader and VT use is tick volume.
tick volume is used as a substitute. Tick volume is the number of changes in price regardless of volume that occur during any given time interval. The reason why tick volume relates to actual volume is that, as markets become more active, prices change back and forth more often.

So it can be used quite simuler to regular volume. But it has no representation on how many lots have actually been traded. Just that price, has moved. It would be sort of like looking at a tick chart.and counting every tick that occurs during a 30 minute bar you are looking at.
Ignored
Isn't this tick data not objective? What I mean is this: open 2 different charts and observe price changes. You will notice BIG difference in the amount of ticks, especially on lower timeframes.
 
 
  • Post #15
  • Quote
  • Mar 29, 2006 11:38am Mar 29, 2006 11:38am
  •  Fanat
  • | Joined Nov 2005 | Status: Member | 40 Posts
Quoting Profitsee
Disliked
What excellent questions and observations!
I was confused about your obsevation above, however Forgive me, but how does a pair potentially bring more profit based upon the exploitation of leverage and its moving capabilities? If its non-volitile in your example, then its not moving. All the currency pairs are leveraged, so such a pair would be leverage like any oher currency pair. Thanks!
Ignored
What I wanted to say was: A pair may be very slow, move little and have a large spread and at the same time be more predictable than usual majors simply because fewer people trade it and it has its own pecularities.

For example, I have seen a statment from a real account that made 2400% in 23 or so hours trading mostly EUR/GBP . Eur/GBP or EUR/CHF seems to be more of a ranging pair than a trending pair like euro or swiss. So a good ranging strategy might work better on a cross that can't move alot vs a trending/breakout strategy.
 
 
  • Post #16
  • Quote
  • Mar 29, 2006 11:45am Mar 29, 2006 11:45am
  •  Fanat
  • | Joined Nov 2005 | Status: Member | 40 Posts
Quoting QuestionGuy
Disliked






Fanat,
What is your take about the probabilistic approach/viewpoint that Vegas and others hint to when talking about 'a marble game' ?IMHO it is a key point, given that, as Joe Ross beautifully says 'My trading philosophy is to make money'.

QG
Ignored
Hi QG,
I have not read on "Vegas", but all I can say is that you should carefully aproach everything. MM ratio's are NOT panacea. Setting "good" risk reward settings have to be in proper places if you don't want it to backfire.

I got my system and my goal is to try to stay clear of the forums as much as I can, because studying trading can consume ALL the time. My advice is to learn the basics and learn them well.

I remember a story about nazi aces. Many of the nazi's aces who flown me-109's prefered to use messerschmits 109's to the newer and better FW-190's Why? Because they learned all the in's and outs of flying ME-109 and they prefered to stick with what they know than what they don't. A small gun that you are good at is better than a huge gun that you know little about.
 
 
  • Post #17
  • Quote
  • Mar 29, 2006 4:51pm Mar 29, 2006 4:51pm
  •  QuestionGuy
  • | Joined Sep 2005 | Status: Junior | 32 Posts
Fanat,

thank you for your advice.
I agree, it's very important to approach new things and people with proper attention.
Vegas is the nickname of a nice person with a long and successful trading experience who decided to share part of his methods on this forum. If you're interested, there are three or four different active threads where people discuss them and this person comes at times to give good advice.


Happy Trading


QG
 
 
  • Post #18
  • Quote
  • Mar 30, 2006 5:52am Mar 30, 2006 5:52am
  •  Profitsee
  • | Joined Mar 2006 | Status: Profitsee | 48 Posts
Quoting Fanat
Disliked
What I wanted to say was: A pair may be very slow, move little and have a large spread and at the same time be more predictable than usual majors simply because fewer people trade it and it has its own pecularities.

For example, I have seen a statment from a real account that made 2400% in 23 or so hours trading mostly EUR/GBP . Eur/GBP or EUR/CHF seems to be more of a ranging pair than a trending pair like euro or swiss. So a good ranging strategy might work better on a cross that can't move alot vs a trending/breakout strategy.
Ignored
Thank you, Fanat. Unless your buying/selling box options (i.e. from onwada (sp?) around the ranging strategy, the range in itself won't yield much. Are you saying selling at the top part of the range and buying at the low part?
I believe the cross. USD moves in and out of EUR and CHF, pushing each away from and into each other in 5 minute charts. I figure its a program capturing price discrepts. The long EUR/CHF cross was more profitable than long EUR/USD and short USD/CHF due to USD buying EUR which indirectly weakened the USD/CHF by more than the EUR/CHF spread. Ratio: 20k (EUR/CHF), 10k (EUR/USD & USD/CHF)
Profitsee - Knowing the future is not enough.
 
 
  • Post #19
  • Quote
  • Last Post: Aug 27, 2017 11:21pm Aug 27, 2017 11:21pm
  •  Dingoman-two
  • Joined Aug 2017 | Status: Just a little Aussi Battler | 4,447 Posts
The best way to trade in my opinion is to use the trades dynamic index (TDI),

along with the CCI and RSI set at 5,all so in the TDI the green line is the RSI, this needs to be changed to 5 as well,

As you can see they all need to move in the same direction at the same time to work,

This strategy is very profitable when used right,

Try trading on a practices account first,or only trade with 0.01 of a pip until you feel confident with it.

The best trader is the one who is not influenced by others T/A or B/S

THE ONE MINUET CHART ATTACHED SAYS IT ALL

Cheers and good luck to all

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