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Quoting mahdiquant
And then we can combine different constructs to build new constructs which can be used to build a trading method?
No, you can built any trading method anyway you like.

This periodic table of intangible construct can identify false breaks, length of a move, continuations, without ever using candlestick patterns, fundamentals, S&R, mass psychology, supply and demand, etc...

Remember, price revolves around this intangible construct and not the other way around.
Quoting ha-pattern
1) Price moves according to exact measures.
2) Because it moves according to exact measures, it adjusts on impact from a certain type and size.
....a) No one trader has enough existence (money) in the market to have an impact.
....b) A large collection of skilled traders does. (Why skilled: No incentive to be in the market, otherwise.)
3) The impact a trader can have is through the
....a) understanding that reflects how price moves already
....b) probability, versus loss and thus incorrect understanding of how the market...
You are right to a certain extent.... but it goes far deeper than that.

And this impact you talk about revolves around the intangible construct.

Yes, no one trader has enough existence to have an impact... I've been saying all along, that mass psychology revolves around this construct and not the other way around.

Yes... your understanding of how prices move is a) b) this is correct, all I am saying is that we can go deeper if we like, whatever it is a trader would like to pursue.
  • Post #63
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  • Edited 7:44am May 3, 2012 7:41am | Edited 7:44am
Quoting CrucialPoint
The ball doesn't revolve on how high, how hard you throw it (FA & TA). The ball (price) will go where ever it has to go according to a mathematical constant (gravity), wind resistance, mass etc...
"Etc." including the force, right? I mean, when you analyze (=FA & TA), nobody knows that. It'll have the same impact (=zero ) on price if you write it in capital letters or plot thicker lines on the chart. But in case of the ball, the "how high-how hard" is the force I applied = a vector quantity. How high = direction, how hard = magnitude. (And of course gravity, wind etc., but the movement has to be started.)

In one of your earlier posts you mentioned that "There are clusters that would cause a big move: trading sessions, news release, no apparent reasons". The no _apparent_ reason is just simply "trading", right? = people wanting to buy and sell and placing orders. Even though, we don't know what they think, and possibilities to see all the orders of others (which are reflections of thoughts/intentions, and which _force_ the price to move) are also limited. Though, if we only need 39 digits of PI, then...

Dammit, this brain racking hurts - but that's what you wanted, right? (So please keep going, I'm a mazochist.)
Even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward.
so...you have the actual price value, you set it in a formula (or a construct) with ONE constant and you get as result the furure price?? is this it?
Quoting Ralome
Even though, we don't know what they think, and possibilities to see all the orders of others (which are reflections of thoughts/intentions, and which _force_ the price to move) are also limited. Though, if we only need 39 digits of PI, then...
That's what I mean "beyond mass psychology". Big boys or banks which i don't even care about bla bla bla. They are still a collection of thoughts and the intangible.

39 digits of pi is a constant of a construct.... but can you imagine the magnitude of how a constant of such construct is all you need for infinity?
Quoting joancb
so...you have the actual price value, you set it in a formula (or a construct) with ONE constant and you get as result the furure price?? is this it?
No. Sorry you totally misunderstood the concept.
Quoting CrucialPoint
You are right to a certain extent.... but it goes far deeper than that.

And this impact you talk about revolves around the intangible construct.

Yes, no one trader has enough existence to have an impact... I've been saying all along, that mass psychology revolves around this construct and not the other way around.

Yes... your understanding of how prices move is a) b) this is correct, all I am saying is that we can go deeper if we like, whatever it is a trader would like to pursue.
Deeper, huh?
Why is it to be human (decisions) -- specifically, to be a collection of traders whose aggregated order moves the market
and
How does news adjust the (prospective) value of money?


Tough one, wow.
I'll interpret price on chart directly -- Easier.
Quoting CrucialPoint

"The intangible construct has many constant.
Any construct has a constant.
And any construct may contain many constant.
Example; such as Newtion's law and Pi.
If you combine all these constants, you would end up with a somewhat like a periodic table of the intangible construct.
You will be able to categorize certain natures of the construct."
:nerd:

I think that time must have a key place in this.

The average Forex trader has limited information. He knows that at this time he was offered this price to buy and this price to sell. His broker provides software that easily presents this information as a chart.

Does the average trader have all the information he needs to use this table of the intangible construct to benefit his trading? Or are we always going to be at a disadvantage because we lack key information?
Thanks for all the fish
I've been away for a while, from forex and this great riddles i've track and think about, I needed to work a little bit hard for living but i'm not quitting forex.

I quick read your post's they are intriguing, as my understanding is that the markets and everything existing is following some underlying intangible structure, that is base on certain constants. And what you say about gravity and the ball following always the force of gravity could be correlated to price in the manner that no matter what we think or do or analyze that everything and together what price is doing is following the underlying structure and we just need to determine the position of gravitational force.

Which is hard to discover where is the center, until we find the way to form that construct from the only constant that is present everywhere PI

That's the CrucialPoint as his name says. we need to discover that crucial point

It would be useful to point to some readings and book's I'm really determined to find the way, now I'm practicing speed reading so I can read more books because I like reading and also to be possible to grasp more new stuff and concepts.

Best to Everyone
Quoting CrucialPoint
39 digits of pi is a constant of a construct.... but can you imagine the magnitude of how a constant of such construct is all you need for infinity?
If you where to break it down metaphorically, how could one identify this constant? What tools would be required to dissect such constant that appears in any given market? (not sure if i wrote something lame here...)
So

The intangibel construct tells when price goes up or down?
Like the next XY digit in PI tells when and how far price rises
Or falls? LoL

On the otherhand why not .... But if u are skilled and have a deep
Understanding of the market logics/mechanics u at least can do the same...
(not 100% or when) but still

There has to be a cause in order for an effect to happen
And a single digit in pi isnt a cause

And if in some miracleway it is. u can see the effect within
The buying and selling wich then will be the cause for the next effect
A rise or fall in price ( just a mather of wich perspective u choose)

As when a collective of informed deep pocket. Traders
Buy or sell u will notice this... An elephant leaves his marks
Within a cornfield even if a single digit in PI made him run!
He is not telling that single digit in Pi is cause of the rise or fall of price, but that the constant pi is something that is all around us and that there is a way to make a matrix of relations that can pin-point what gonna happen with the price or where would be the center of gravity, also i haven't think a lot,
but if we can relate some how Pi with the open and close of price in relation with time cycles we will have instruction where to look for the next move with some degree of certainty, it's quite abstract and out of box thinking, need time to think about certain aspects.

I will need to check on the charts some ideas that are coming to my mind, but If i need to make some complex calculation I will need some pointer where to start.

I like to put more load to my brain it can just develop you can't brake it

Quoting Aeiou
So

The intangibel construct tells when price goes up or down?
Like the next XY digit in PI tells when and how far price rises
Or falls? LoL

On the otherhand why not .... But if u are skilled and have a deep
Understanding of the market logics/mechanics u at least can do the same...
(not 100% or when) but still

There has to be a cause in order for an effect to happen
And a single digit in pi isnt a cause

And if in some miracleway it is. u can see the effect within
The buying and selling wich then will be the cause for the next effect
A...
  • Post #73
  • Quote
  • Edited 5:27pm May 3, 2012 5:07pm | Edited 5:27pm
Quoting CrucialPoint
CrucialPoint's Brain Teaser to Fortunes

[center]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHxY41iDvzs
Question:
*** What does this have to do with trading? ***

!!! Warning !!!
1.[color=DarkRed] To those who have a petty mind...
Let me tell you in advance that this is nothing more but going on a witch hunt.
And you are 100% right.
You're best...
What it have to do with trading, maybe the fact that that infinite sequence of numbers is similar to market (history/chart).
It is like the big bang, from one point something start and have no end.
Every segment is interconnected with the previous and next ones, they are all connected, revealing the time variable as an illusion.
On the other hand, compare the pi sequence to the market sequence is not possible, the market structure is infinitely more complex than a code like that in the video.
To put it simple, it looks like there is only one market, one chart. But there are a multitude of markets, and the price constantly switch from one market to another.
They co-exist simultaneously, we can see such different markets like the consequences of different partecipants, from the small speculators to the big banks, they are all present in the market at any moment, but their actions affect price in different way.
The chart mix all those markets together in a raw rapresentation of the space-time (up/down, time) price activity, and of course the result is what may looks like a chaotic market, or random.
At this point, there is a big lack of informations, it's the chaos, the random, and trading become a gambling activity, of course with the necessary tricks (like MM, a proven trading system aka "edge") even gambling can be profitable for some.

Edit:
I just read your posts on this thread, it is very interesting, maybe it's not the case, but looks like you really understand the market structure (or construct as you call it)
I always thought that nobody in the earth did every realized it.
Quoting Pipalicious
If you where to break it down metaphorically, how could one identify this constant? What tools would be required to dissect such constant that appears in any given market? (not sure if i wrote something lame here...)
No it's not lame... I'll get back to you (on this one) another time as I don't have time for now.

This reminded me of our past conversation how you had that cigarette and then boom. For me, I still remember the day when the first time I asked the question:
"How and where the F*ck did they come up with pi = 3.14159265... !!! ?"

Hey Pip, Do you know how to solve a Rubik's cube? because if you do, I got a metaphor that clearly answers your question.
Quoting tunera
What it have to do with trading, maybe the fact that that infinite sequence of numbers is similar to market (history/chart).
It is like the big bang, from one point something start and have no end.
Every segment is interconnected with the previous and next ones, they are all connected, revealing the time variable as an illusion.
On the other hand, compare the pi sequence to the market sequence is not possible, the market structure is infinitely more complex than a code like that in the video.
To put it simple, it looks like there is only one market,...
You, TheDivine and I are on the same page

Quoting tunera
I just read your posts on this thread, it is very interesting, maybe it's not the case, but looks like you really understand the market structure (or construct as you call it)
I always thought that nobody in the earth did ever realized it.
There are people who are in the know... but you won't find it online, seminars, books or for that matter nor sold for a price. I, for one, never thought of publishing it.

Normally, if you want a clear detailed information on it, you have to exchange something of the same value of information; Tell me something I don't know about trading and I will gladly exchange information on hybrid systems on all conditions (non of this BS about system not working because market changed), the unification of gann and elliot for efficient exits, the correlation of bell curve with mass psychology on trends... just to name a few.
Personally I dont think that Pi has a direct application to our problem. It is only a metaphor to help us understand what should be looking at.

What CP is talking about may be the "the unification and the perfect relationship of the different mathematics" which "get down to the source and eliminate all the fluffs" to quote from his (or her?) last journal post.

I think (just making a rough guesses) he has been spreading bits of his theory to help community and the people in need: 95% rule of the price, new concept of trading, The hemispheres, Newtons law and the construct.

How can we relate all these? Where should we start?
Another construct is the golden ratio.

And it is not true that there's no dependency on historical price. It depends on what you define as history. i.e. 1 year, 1 week, 1 day, etc. You get the point. For your case, the past few minutes would be your history.
  • Post #78
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  • Edited 3:07am May 4, 2012 2:50am | Edited 3:07am
Quoting CrucialPoint
You, TheDivine and I are on the same page


There are people who are in the know... but you won't find it online, seminars, books or for that matter nor sold for a price. I, for one, never thought of publishing it.

Normally, if you want a clear detailed information on it, you have to exchange something of the same value of information; Tell me something I don't know about trading and I will gladly exchange information on hybrid systems on all conditions (non of this BS about system not working because market...
I've made a little image to try to give some more information about my view on the market, as you can see it remind a little bit some kind of plant, in fact such principle is observable on almost anything in this universe.
You can see, any branch (or we can say trend, in our market metaphor) have many other branchs attached to it, and any of those have in turn many other branchs attached to it, etc.
This structure apply to a plant in the same way as it apply to the market, what is the market then, the price activity.
It is simply the exploration of the market structure (the market branches), in this process the price go exploring the various branches, every of them, and starting from the big to the most little one, and when it explored all the branches within one big branch, it switch to another big one, and the exploration begin again from the beginning, an infinite process.
However, if we can see the market as a plant (like in this image), we can say it is not always as perfect.
The plant of our example is a perfect one.
Let me explain, in our image, every branch have within him 3 branches attached, and every of these branches have in turn 3 other littler branches attached to him, etc. etc. zooming in an endless fractal loop.
In the real market, the distribution/volatility is NOT a constant variable like in plants, it tend to be strong and powerful at the beginning of a set of branches, and slow down more and more from there.
So, in the market plant, we will see some branches with many littler branches attached to him, big powerful full of life branches, big amount of money join the market, the volume is high, great big trends that move the market far away in one direction.
Some others with only a few littler branches attached, low volume, choppy market.

The market and a plant, i never thought one day i would used a plant as a metaphor for the market, lol

Edit: @ crucialpoint: once again, probably we are talking about different things, but ok i'm enjoying very much to read your posts, and will continue to do it.
I just wanted to give a little explaination about my previous post, as for some people it may was making no sense at all, so here we go.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Immagine.jpg Size: 67 KB
Quoting CrucialPoint
Hey Pip, Do you know how to solve a Rubik's cube? because if you do, I got a metaphor that clearly answers your question.
Yes, i still get epiphanies, however find it hard to 'describe' in words and when i try i sound like ive lost the plot

Rubik's cube...there is a process, layers on top of layers in specific sequences in order to solve it. I personally havent done it, but ive looked into it. The irony is once the sequence (rules) are in place, its literally step by step with guaranteed outcome.
Quoting tunera
I've made a little image to try to give some more information about my view on the market...

You can see, any branch (or we can say trend, in our market metaphor) have many other branchs attached to it, and any of those have in turn many other branchs attached to it, etc.
I can relate your image to the 6 dimensional charting world of CP. In which each branch has 6 children (four 1L and two 2P). Each branch change is governed by a hemisphere (buy/sell hemisphere) and trend means price remains in the current branch. At anytime (based on Quantum Physics which math equations cannot explain) a force can come in and change the branch (trend).
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