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If you could go back - one Forex thing you'd tell youself? 64 replies

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Can you tell with naked eyes?

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  • Post #141
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  • Apr 18, 2010 6:25am Apr 18, 2010 6:25am
  •  7bit
  • Joined Mar 2009 | Status: Member | 1,231 Posts
Quoting Adal
Disliked
The reality is a little bit more complicated: [...] If you flip enough coins, you will get sequences of coin flips that seen in isolation from the rest[...]
Ignored
Exactly. In isolation is the important point here. This is exactly what I said. These "patterns" may not be viewed in isolation to find out whether it really is a pattern or whether it is completely normal and expected that this sequence appeared.
 
 
  • Post #142
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  • Apr 18, 2010 3:01pm Apr 18, 2010 3:01pm
  •  smittens4212
  • | Joined Oct 2008 | Status: Member | 710 Posts
Quoting kk007
Disliked
To create "freshness" in the experiment, they may get a random start point on the price chart to present. It is highly possible that some chart-portion are repeated, and this repetition manifest the memory factor. This problem has not been addressed in their paper.

But I just realised from trad3r, he is one of the champion there. The MIT fake charts look really fake and can't compare to the quality of fakeness on this thread. So this is another critical weakness of the study.
Ignored
Nope, wrong again kk007. New data was used every time. I'm not sure what is so difficult about understanding that? The study specifically said they used a different day's tick data for each example.

I don't think you actually read the study
 
 
  • Post #143
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  • Edited 11:08pm Apr 18, 2010 10:50pm | Edited 11:08pm
  •  kk007
  • Joined Feb 2009 | Status: Commercial Member <- Don't trust me | 2,976 Posts
Quoting smittens4212
Disliked
Nope, wrong again kk007. New data was used every time. I'm not sure what is so difficult about understanding that? The study specifically said they used a different day's tick data for each example.

I don't think you actually read the study
Ignored
I have read the study. You are wrong. If you read my comment, you will find that I have read it; it is so obvious. Nevertheless, I have to admit that I haven't read each single sentence there. Let me know where you find the description say the thing you said. i.e. they delibrately choose different days for training and testing. If they delibrately do it, it should be ok. If they just randomise to generate different thing, repetition is possible.

Anyway this is only the first part of the study, in the second part, they do daily and each time they use the same sequence of daily.

Other problems also happen that make their study cannot apply to here as said by 2 responsents here, trad3r and luqmanz.


Quoting FXEZ
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To evaluate the robustness of our experimental design, we varied various parameters of
the experiment across data sets, as indicated in the Results section below. In addition,
we presented subjects with data charts in two different ways. For half of the data sets
corresponding to transaction-by-transaction (or “tick”) data, each subject was shown a fresh
set of charts, based on a sequence of returns disjoint from the sequences shown to other
subjects.
Ignored
Quoting FXEZ
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For the other half of the data, corresponding to daily data, the charts shown to each subject were based on the same sequence of returns. However, the data was shifted by a random amount for security reasons, i.e., to avoid the possibility that two subjects could coordinate their guesses, for example by simultaneously playing the same charts on two nearby machines.
Ignored
P.S. "each subject was shown a fresh set of charts" as said in the paper not "a subject was shown a fresh set of charts each time" for the first half
.
 
 
  • Post #144
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  • Apr 18, 2010 10:59pm Apr 18, 2010 10:59pm
  •  kk007
  • Joined Feb 2009 | Status: Commercial Member <- Don't trust me | 2,976 Posts
Quoting Troikaone1
Disliked
As I've said before....an inexperienced trader will see randomness whereas an experienced trader will see structure.
Ignored
Are you experienced enough to do that? If so, please let me know how to do it.
 
 
  • Post #145
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  • Jun 26, 2010 5:11pm Jun 26, 2010 5:11pm
  •  17121712
  • | Joined Jun 2005 | Status: Member | 149 Posts
Here's one I made earlier...

I took 2^22 numbers from a normal distribution with zero mean and standard deviation 1. Then I took every 1024 points and made a OHLC candle from it.

I havn't done exhaustive experimentaion but the price changes on real market data is normally distributed on everything I've tried so far. I wonder if distinctions are made if you check out ordering or correlation with previous data points.

I havn't read mandelbrot's book or anything like that so I need to read into it but I was just wondering if anyone could give me a direction to go in to mathematically scrutinize data sets taht would be great.
Attached File(s)
File Type: xls Random walk.xls   881 KB | 396 downloads
 
 
  • Post #146
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  • Jun 26, 2010 5:47pm Jun 26, 2010 5:47pm
  •  ForexQuant
  • Joined Jan 2010 | Status: Member | 519 Posts
Quoting 17121712
Disliked
Here's one I made earlier...

I took 2^22 numbers from a normal distribution with zero mean and standard deviation 1. Then I took every 1024 points and made a OHLC candle from it.

I havn't done exhaustive experimentaion but the price changes on real market data is normally distributed on everything I've tried so far. I wonder if distinctions are made if you check out ordering or correlation with previous data points.

I havn't read mandelbrot's book or anything like that so I need to read into it but I was just wondering if anyone could...
Ignored
no I think you are making a mistake, market price changes does not follow normal distribution. Show us a Q-Q plot if you found any price changes that is normally distributed.

btw I cant read your excel sheet.
 
 
  • Post #147
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2010 7:01pm Jun 26, 2010 7:01pm
  •  17121712
  • | Joined Jun 2005 | Status: Member | 149 Posts
Hmmm, I had a problem uploading... I'll try again at some point but I'm a little distracted.

I tried it with several 15M charts for EURUSD and GBPUSD, getting the data into a spreadsheet was a faf but I do remember it looking distinctly gaussian.

I'll withdraw the statement until I have collected the data to back it up, obviously 3 or 4 samples isn't enough to verify a theory. Has anyone got any material/ literature (on the internet) on this sort of thing?
 
 
  • Post #148
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2010 7:55pm Jun 26, 2010 7:55pm
  •  ForexQuant
  • Joined Jan 2010 | Status: Member | 519 Posts
Quoting 17121712
Disliked
Hmmm, I had a problem uploading... I'll try again at some point but I'm a little distracted.

I tried it with several 15M charts for EURUSD and GBPUSD, getting the data into a spreadsheet was a faf but I do remember it looking distinctly gaussian.

I'll withdraw the statement until I have collected the data to back it up, obviously 3 or 4 samples isn't enough to verify a theory. Has anyone got any material/ literature (on the internet) on this sort of thing?
Ignored
looking distinctly is not a scientific method to support your hypothesis. Yes it looks like gaussian, but it is not, not even close.
 
 
  • Post #149
  • Quote
  • Jun 26, 2010 9:44pm Jun 26, 2010 9:44pm
  •  17121712
  • | Joined Jun 2005 | Status: Member | 149 Posts
That's true, my motive was more to provoke a conversation about the subject.

Please could you shed a little more light onto it please?

What methods do you use to fit the distribution?
 
 
  • Post #150
  • Quote
  • May 27, 2011 5:29am May 27, 2011 5:29am
  •  p.warrior
  • | Joined May 2011 | Status: Member | 17 Posts
Quoting Craig
Disliked
Wrong, consider a stationary Gaussian Random walk, it's generated via random numbers (or as random as a computer can), when it gets more than 2 standard deviations from the mean, what are the chances of the next step being closer to the mean? (hint: it isn't 50%).
Ignored
Is it lesser than 50%? I've spent time thinking what it actually implies. Could you tell me if I'm right?
I hope to get an answer from you so that I can judge where I'm currently in.

Thanks a million.
 
 
  • Post #151
  • Quote
  • May 28, 2016 2:57pm May 28, 2016 2:57pm
  •  drammen
  • | Joined Feb 2015 | Status: Dee50's Disciple | 177 Posts
Post 1
Picture 1: Real
Picture 2: Fake
Picture 3: Real
Picture 4: Fake
Picture 5: Real


Post 2
Picture 1: Real
Picture 2: Real
Picture 3: Real
Picture 4:Fake
Picture 5: Real

How did i do?
Energy, frequency and vibration.
 
 
  • Post #152
  • Quote
  • Last Post: Feb 16, 2017 2:09pm Feb 16, 2017 2:09pm
  •  argosgate7
  • | Joined Sep 2013 | Status: Member | 60 Posts
Quoting Craig
Disliked
{quote} Wrong, consider a stationary Gaussian Random walk, it's generated via random numbers (or as random as a computer can), when it gets more than 2 standard deviations from the mean, what are the chances of the next step being closer to the mean? (hint: it isn't 50%).
Ignored
Quoting CrucialPoint
Disliked
{quote} Hi Craig, I couldn't stop laughing when I read this. (not mocking you, but agreeing with you) I'm laughing because its what brings in the money for me. I say, "you either get it or you don't." "when it gets more than 2 standard deviations from the mean, what are the chances of the next step being closer to the mean? (hint: it isn't 50%)." OMG! This is my bread and butter. This is what I exploit again and again... and again.
Ignored
This thread is a bit old and i don't really expect anybody to reply ... Nevertheless , i have been reading this for quite some time and i'm still not sure about the answer . The problem for me is the Gaussian part , and most importantly the stationary part lol , because a random walk by definition cannot be stationary

Anyway i would really appreciate it if someone could have a discussion about this
 
 
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