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trublu's trading journal

Even more frustration as if I needed more. I'm going to post some charts of why I feel this way today.

The first chart is the EU 5 min chart where I entered 2 trades and lost them both. The first arrow is a LH where I shorted and put my SL at the entry bar's high. Probably should have put it up 2 pips higher at least to account for spread but I didn't do that and look what happened, 20 pip down move I should have been apart of. The second arrow is another LH which again stopped me out by a pip or two. This one I'm not as frustrated with because it did break the bar high where as the previous one only matched it.

The second chart is what I'm really frustrated about. It's the GU 1 min chart. The arrow is the one entry I got and I got out at +4, was up around 20 at one point but wanted to see if it would run more. The reason for my frustration is if you look to the left of my arrow and big down move. There are at least 4 or 5 LH opportunities where you could have caught the majority of the down move. Looking back on it now it is easy to see but it's harder to realize in real time, my next post will go further in depth on this. So my total for the day is -38.

Bottom line is I am feeling very discouraged right now which is not good and I can't let it get me down. Much more to come in the next post.

trublu
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I've been reading a book by Al Brooks called Reading a price chart bar by bar or something like that. It's a good book and he seems to know what he's talking about but it's absurdly hard for me to understand. He uses names for patterns I've never heard of before and it's confusing.

He talks about trading with the trend and getting in at every opportunity you can. Even if it's not the perfect entry, if it's close to a good entry, it is most likely good enough. This is a little different than most people who say look for the very best entry and only take those. But if you think about it makes sense, if you're trading with the trend, enter at every pullback or every little inside bar you see. Your goal should be to catch as much of the trend as possible and you need to be entering every entry point or at least trailing trades to do that. He says it's a hard way to get the hang of it and boy can I attest to that notion. When I'm watching the charts real time and it's trending. I know it's trending, every does, but the hard part is saying it's moving down like GU today. You say to yourself well it's already moved straight down x amount of pips, it can't possibly go down more. Says who? Do you know the future? Most likely not.

Ryanmcd (great trader by the way, read his posts at the J16 thread) always says he'll be wrong once, at the top and the bottom and that's how you should trade the trend. He's been doing it for years much like V and Islander and so they make it look easy, which it's definitely not for me.

HOWEVER, I'M NOT GIVING UP, I'M NEVER GIVING UP, I BELIEVE IN MYSELF AND I WILL SUCCEED!

Apologies for the long post and there is one more to go but it feels go to get my thoughts out there and I'm not as discouraged as before.

trublu
This post is about psychology and how psychology is in my opinion the hardest part about trading. KenLee just posted a great post in the motivation thread that everyone should read. Also ryanmcd posted a video of Mark Douglas which I recommend.

So why is trading so hard? I'll use the example of how I traded today. First trades all losers, and I got discouraged. Because of this I missed easy 1min add on trades on the GU down move and later a 5 min LH GU trade. Also both my EU stop outs ended up being winners which is frustrating.

Unlike a robot I have to deal with my emotions. So after my losing trades and seeing the GU move down with out me, I was angry and upset, who wouldn't be. Professional traders, that's who. I'm still letting my emotions control how I trade. If I'm having winning trades, I stop trading. If I'm having losing trades, I stop trading. IT MAKES NO SENSE!! How can I make any pips If I'm not trading. I know this, but it's one thing knowing it and another following it.

So what am I going to do to help my emotions? Right now I'm going to go through the steps KenLee outlined in his post starting with watching the Secrect dvd. I've seen it before a couple years ago but that was before I started trading so I'm interested to see what I think about it now. Then I'm going to watch the Mark Douglas video again. Lastly I'm going to keep trading everyday and work on it. Watching these videos or reading books on psychology can only get me so far. I need to get out there and trade and over come it. No more complaining about missing trades or being upset, just move on to the next trade and forgot about the past. That's the plan at least.

Once again sorry about the long rants but I had to get these things down on paper.

trublu
Quoting trublu
Even more frustration as if I needed more. I'm going to post some charts of why I feel this way today.

The first chart is the EU 5 min chart where I entered 2 trades and lost them both. The first arrow is a LH where I shorted and put my SL at the entry bar's high. Probably should have put it up 2 pips higher at least to account for spread but I didn't do that and look what happened, 20 pip down move I should have been apart of. The second arrow is another LH which again stopped me out by a pip or two. This one I'm not as frustrated with because...

Okay look at this chart, name ***1*** spot you could of got short and lost money on that huge run down? If you missed that you need to change the way you enter the market, if you miss a 100 pip run and catch 7-8 on a retrace you need to re-think how you are playing it.
Keep taking CT trades, I need more money
If you are not pulling at LEAST 5% you MM sucks and you need to re-work it.
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Keep taking CT trades, I need more money
Quoting Ryanmcd
Okay look at this chart, name ***1*** spot you could of got short and lost money on that huge run down? If you missed that you need to change the way you enter the market, if you miss a 100 pip run and catch 7-8 on a retrace you need to re-think how you are playing it.
Thank you Ryan for your posts and taking the time to post here and congrats on being the first person besides me to post in my journal haha. Also anyone who likes trading the short time frames or trading at all, read all of Ryan's posts (most of them are in the J16 thread and also check out Jankone's thread), he knows what he's talking about.

On a more serious note MM is definitely one thing I need to work as well as my exits and holding trades. Getting my emotions in check is probably the most important thing I need to work on, in my opinion.

One thing I think I personally need to think about is how long I"ve been trading the 5 min charts. I've tried trading on shorter time frames before but not with the trend how I am now. I keep a journal in a notebook that just has my winners and losers and today was my 23rd day of trading like this. So I need to realize that 23 days isn't long enough to be successful at anything in life and becoming a good trader takes time and no matter how long you trade you will have losers and don't get discouraged. Ryan has talked before how often he loses but at the end of the day he's a profitable trader.

Sort of a rambling post so I apologize but once again a big thank you to Ryan and hopefully this journal is helping at least one other person become a better trader and not just a spot for me to annoy people with all my posts.

trublu
  • Post #47
  • Quote
  • Edited 8:38am Mar 9, 2010 8:03am | Edited 8:38am
Quoting trublu
I'm not saying only taking 5 trades is bad but when there are many more opportunities to get into good trades, only taking 5 isn't good. I need to get in the habit of taking every good trade I see. I always over analyze the trades and find reasons not take them. If it's a HL with the trend then just pull the trigger and see what happens. I know I'm going to lose trades, a lot of them, but it still gets me down when I do and I need to work on just forgetting them and move on to the next setup.

So obviously I still need to fix a lot of things but...
If you are trading small stops with decent MM (up to 1,5% of cap at risk)you can easily trade a few good set ups and return 2-4% per day and occassionally hit the home run, the 100 pip run that makes your figures look crazy. Eyevoltage looks for a couple of good 15-20 pip trades a day and he seems to be doing OK. Obviously there will be losing days or no trade days in between.

OK but FIRST
1) Go for the experience first before you go for the money, get your system right. If you need more trading time then so be it.
2) Don't worry about what anyone else is returning/doing % wise. If I did 30% and some guy says he did 100% I was beating myself up emotionally/mentally for a while. The if he can do it why can't I etc etc. 10% per month compounded triples your money in a year. Isn't that OK??
3) Chart time is key. Have long looks at the weekend etc etc at what worked and what didn't. Thats not just the system hl/lh, following the 1hr, turns at key levels but also what time did trades happen, how long were the runs. Try and get your system down to a few key things. Anyway lots of time in front of charts!! The stuff that works, key levels (pivots/round numbers/proven supp/res), candle shapes actually works. Making it work for you is the neat trick.
4) Candles, candles, candles. Have a look at the vsa thread, that gave me a greater appreciation of candles, follow through etc etc. I can honestly say that my trading has taken another kick up using vsa. Personally I don't worry about the specialised lingo vsa uses, the analysis of candles helped a massive amount. The Shamus vsa thread.
5) I don't care if you trade 1c, $1 or $10 a pip. DO NOT get in the habit of losing 'real' money whilst you are learning. Mentally that is NOT GOOD. STOP IT NOW. Trade demo until you are comfortable, get your methods right first. Trade demo, then small acc then the real thing. Do you think Tiger Woods trained to miss puts? Of course not. So much of trading (and most things in life) is the 6 inches between your ears and whats going on there, get yourself right mentally.

Will have a look at your other posts and see if theres more I can add.
Quoting trublu
If it's a HL with the trend then just pull the trigger and see what happens.
trublu
Try reading this its not bad.
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf Secrets to Emotion free trading.pdf   484 KB | 277 downloads
Quoting Vantage
If you are trading small stops with decent MM (up to 1,5% of cap at risk)you can easily trade a few good set ups and return 2-4% per day and occassionally hit the home run, the 100 pip run that makes your figures look crazy. Eyevoltage looks for a couple of good 15-20 pip trades a day and he seems to be doing OK. Obviously there will be losing days or no trade days in between.

OK but FIRST
1) Go for the experience first before you go for the money, get your system right. If you need more trading time then so be it.
2) Don't worry about what anyone...
Thank you V for your posts. I definitely need more chart time. I haven't thought about looking at what time the markets moved a lot or how far they went, seems like an obvious thing to look at now. I'll check out the vsa thread. Thanks for the ebook, I actually have that downloaded on my other computer just haven't read it yet but today looks like a good day for that.

trublu
Quoting trublu
Even more frustration as if I needed more. I'm going to post some charts of why I feel this way today.

The first chart is the EU 5 min chart where I entered 2 trades and lost them both. The first arrow is a LH where I shorted and put my SL at the entry bar's high. Probably should have put it up 2 pips higher at least to account for spread but I didn't do that and look what happened, 20 pip down move I should have been apart of. The second arrow is another LH which again stopped me out by a pip or two. This one I'm not as frustrated with because...
The eur 5 min trade. If I understand your entry right you had a hammer ie poss up and an up candle. I'd much rather be selling a shooting star in a downtrend than a hammer. If I have 2 positive close candles that more or less have closed at their tops with no follow through I'll consider selling off 1 min chart (like I did this morning see the medici islander thread) when pa is at a key level, again this morning a couple of hours earlier price had stalled at 25 psych level and gu in downtrend.

As a general rule I find MOST (but not all) good 1 min moves tie in pretty close with a small range 5 min candle.

If in doubt have a look at 15 min candle, is that making sense for your moves even if trading off 5 min chart.

If you are -30 whatever and price has had a big run then you have to have a serious step back and look at what you are doing. Something is definitely not right. DO NOT beat yourself up, I've seen lots of big runs where the first easy sitter trade at the start got missed and then things get away from you. Obviously you don't want to repeat that too often, whatever you do though go back study the charts have a look at entries that you can live with. NB some big moves just happen without warning.

Have a look at the move that has occurred in the time you have been in front of the computer, how much did you get? Enough to give you 2% plus for the day. Check on whether your system would have given you a decent entry.

Oh yes, be discouraged, be p*ssed off, then do your homework and fix it.
Quoting Vantage
The eur 5 min trade. If I understand your entry right you had a hammer ie poss up and an up candle. I'd much rather be selling a shooting star in a downtrend than a hammer. If I have 2 positive close candles that more or less have closed at their tops with no follow through I'll consider selling off 1 min chart (like I did this morning see the medici islander thread) when pa is at a key level, again this morning a couple of hours earlier price had stalled at 25 psych level and gu in downtrend.

As a general rule I find MOST (but not all) good 1...
Thanks for the tips Vantage. I think I should spend more time not only watching charts in real time but looking over the trading time I was at my computer and see where good entries occurred and if my system would have gotten me in any of them or not. I also need to write down my rules all in one spot. I wrote down a lot of stuff from your HL/LH thread and what you look for, but I need to write down my own rules and what I look for and follow those.

trublu
Quoting trublu
I know it's trending, every does, but the hard part is saying it's moving down like GU today. You say to yourself well it's already moved straight down x amount of pips, it can't possibly go down more. Says who? Do you know the future? Most likely not.

Ryanmcd (great trader by the way, read his posts at the J16 thread) always says he'll be wrong once, at the top and the bottom and that's how you should trade the trend. He's been doing it for years much like V and Islander and so they make it look easy, which it's definitely not for me.

HOWEVER,...
If I said to you that in a certain hour pre UK session 90% of time you will not exceed 50 pip run would you sell the greatest set up in the world if its already moved 45? Yes you might win 1 but you'll lose 9. Not good odds.

If you miss a trade NO PROBLEM theres another trade in 20-30 mins or (gasp) theres always tomorrow.

I love your never give up attitude. Channel that correctly into researching your system.

Research LOADS of other systems, learn/add/reject. See if there is anything else that works for you. Taking vsa off 5 min chart and adding to 15 min chart was one thing thats been working well for me for months now.

Islander has been trading FOR YEARS, I've been full time for a couple of years and still learning loads. Admittedly now its only the smallest of tinkering the basics are there and have been for ages. Mrs V is definitely on my case for the smallest of changes to whats working for us.

Find what works FOR YOU.

I am seriously in danger of waffling on here so I think I'm done.

Good luck.

Sorry for typos I' haven't been proof reading these replies.
Quoting Vantage
If I said to you that in a certain hour pre UK session 90% of time you will not exceed 50 pip run would you sell the greatest set up in the world if its already moved 45? Yes you might win 1 but you'll lose 9. Not good odds.

If you miss a trade NO PROBLEM theres another trade in 20-30 mins or (gasp) theres always tomorrow.

I love your never give up attitude. Channel that correctly into researching your system.

Research LOADS of other systems, learn/add/reject. See if there is anything else that works for you. Taking vsa off 5 min chart and...
Thank you for all your posts Vantage. Don't worry about spelling, I've understood all you've said. I've got a lot of work ahead of me and I'm looking forward to it. Have a good day and now I'm off to research more and find out what works for me as you've said, I think that's one thing I've over looked. I've seen you and Islander make it look easy so I've been trying to copy what you guys are doing instead of figuring out what works for me. Once again thank you and have a good day.

trublu
Quoting trublu
Thanks for the tips Vantage. I think I should spend more time not only watching charts in real time but looking over the trading time I was at my computer and see where good entries occurred and if my system would have gotten me in any of them or not. I also need to write down my rules all in one spot. I wrote down a lot of stuff from your HL/LH thread and what you look for, but I need to write down my own rules and what I look for and follow those.

trublu
Yep and just to repeat. Once you have them written down, check for yourself that they will work for you based on YOUR understanding of YOUR rules. A silly thing like what a candle looks like I never put in hl/lh thread just things I automatically look for.
Quoting trublu
Thanks for the tips Vantage. I think I should spend more time not only watching charts in real time but looking over the trading time I was at my computer and see where good entries occurred and if my system would have gotten me in any of them or not. I also need to write down my rules all in one spot. I wrote down a lot of stuff from your HL/LH thread and what you look for, but I need to write down my own rules and what I look for and follow those.

trublu
Yes check where you could have gotten in, again 2 or 3 solid 20 whatever trades can make you very successful. It doesn't matter if pa ran 50 if you can get relatively safe 25.

Be very careful not to cherry pick what trades you want to see worked and overlook those that don't. Its easier said than done but crucial obviously.
Oh also check out 1,2,3 tops/bottoms they just hl/lh's at the start of run. That'll also help.

Anyway I'm otta here now, we got my mum home today after her brain tumour op and Mrs V needs some help around the house.

Cheers, good luck.
After reading Vantage's posts and thinking things over I've started writing out my new trading rules. I found an old document on my computer from when I was trading pullbacks to the MA's/Psych levels and trading candle formations at those levels. I started trading like that after reading acumen's thread where I first saw EV, Islander and Vantage trading. I had some success with it but then gave up after some losses.

After reading that document I'm feeling really stupid because I liked trading that way and I gave up after too short of a time. So basically I'm going to add on to that trading rules document and demo trade HL/LH's like I have been this whole journal as well as candle patterns and pullbacks to the levels and MA's. I'm excited that my trading plan is starting to take shape and now I just have to not be an idiot and stick to my rules.

I'd just like to thank everyone who's helped me get this far and hopefully I can stop being a lazy fool and start treating this like a business and a job that I would like to do for the rest of my life instead of a hobby. I've come to the conclusion that I've been rather lazy with my trading and my trading research. I haven't put in the time or effort to become a successful trader. That changes now.

trublu
Quoting trublu
I can stop being a lazy fool and start treating this like a business and a job that I would like to do for the rest of my life instead of a hobby. I've come to the conclusion that I've been rather lazy with my trading and my trading research. I haven't put in the time or effort to become a successful trader. That changes now.

trublu
Good for you.

Not sure if you're been at medici + islanders new thread http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...=1#post3537306 but todays gu run down is a great example of what lh/hl's can do.
Quoting Vantage
Good for you.

Not sure if you're been at medici + islanders new thread http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...=1#post3537306 but todays gu run down is a great example of what lh/hl's can do.
Thanks for the recommendation, that's one of the threads I make sure I read everyday, with you and Islander posting there it's well worth it and anyone interested in trading the short time frames should take a look. That thread and the psych level thread are my two favorite threads at FF and probably where I learned the most about trading.

trublu
Have a look at gu yesterdays London session. There are 3 poss trades following 1 hr (OK 1 was 5 min entry right on 1hr close) that were PERFECT. 2 had zero drawdown apart from spread. Hint shooting stars in downtrend.
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