Menu

Options

Bookmark Thread

First Page First Unread Last Page Last Post

Print Thread

Similar Threads

The System Behind the System, by Merlin Jeffries 16 replies

FX Trading Journal & Continuing Education (warrensapp) 2 replies

Continuing Direction following new Daily Low or High at Close 5 replies

Just basic question on trading successes 10 replies

Would you trade this system? New system #2. 10 replies

Attachments: Ken's Continuing Successes with EO's system
Exit Attachments

Ken's Continuing Successes with EO's system

Quoting fxtrader-ale
Hello everybody,
I'm a beginner since I've been trading live only for 1 year with only a loss of 20% and a return to demo for not to burn totally my account. At the moment my problem is the undertrading for my lack of trust.
Sorry for my english, I'm not a native speacker.
My idea is that I must learn to read PA and to trade with them, with a quite naked chart.
I appreciate a lot the approach of this thread, and it is fitted for me.
I've read the PDF and I'm trying to apply to my charts, using the tradesheet, I think a very valuable document, very...

third question
where I'm wrong because my 4h seems to support a bullish bias but I see only short setup.

This is true but if that is your style then you should be only looking for longs maybe , But for uptrend there must be some retracements and they can be as long as your trades with the trend, Plus sometimes price turns around completely.

I can see 1.6300 and 1.6250 as good spots for it to turn back up and continue it's long march , But as always let price show you what is going to happen. It is thinking that because we draw a few lines and they work some of the time that we get the big head that we can predict where price is going.

When in truth our lines are just in agreement with what is happening. So keep up the good work and it will fall together soon enough.

Cheers Ken
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
@Ken

First of all, thank you Ken for sharing your view of Sam Seidens supply & demand zones. Really appreciate it.

My question is when a longer existing trend reverses, do you see a valid chance of a trade at each swing high or low like I have drawn in this chart. Or do you just look for the most distinct levels which in this case probably would be the swing low (green one).
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 1.gif Size: 20 KB
Quoting janson
@Ken

First of all, thank you Ken for sharing your view of Sam Seidens supply & demand zones. Really appreciate it.

My question is when a longer existing trend reverses, do you see a valid chance of a trade at each swing high or low like I have drawn in this chart. Or do you just look for the most distinct levels which in this case probably would be the swing low (green one).
try this this is Sam's stuff not taking any credit
Attached File(s)
File Type: doc Probability Enhancer.doc   25 KB | 667 downloads
File Type: doc Probability Enhancer Pictures.doc   360 KB | 587 downloads
File Type: xls Probability Evaluation.xls   20 KB | 585 downloads
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
Quoting janson
@Ken

First of all, thank you Ken for sharing your view of Sam Seidens supply & demand zones. Really appreciate it.

My question is when a longer existing trend reverses, do you see a valid chance of a trade at each swing high or low like I have drawn in this chart. Or do you just look for the most distinct levels which in this case probably would be the swing low (green one).

even on your chart you failed to mark the higher levels which did turn already

In this game looking back at what we missed is as important as getting it right on the first go.

Always look at the best moves and try and see what you didn't

Myself i learn from my miss views as well as ya'lls why i run this thread
to learn ..

Thanks ken
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
Thanks, Ken. May I ask where did you get these documents?

Quote
even on your chart you failed to mark the higher levels which did turn already
Yes, because I prepared the chart just for my last post. But I catch up on now.

1 - Hard to say if this short should be taken since its a trade against a long term uptrend. Probably not, but with hindsight it's easy to say.

2 - Not sure if valid zone. It's in the middle of the current range but price moved away nicely from this zone.

3 - No question about that.

4 - Not sure since most pairs were trading heavily pro dollar today. But at least it went enough in our direction to manage the trade so it wouldn't have cost our initial SL.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 1.gif Size: 23 KB
I forgot about that zone. Again, prive moved nicly away from the zone, but the origin of the move was actually one level lower. So, take it or leave it?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 1.gif Size: 22 KB
ken,

when levels are picked of the H4 TF, I notice the zones can be 30-50 pips wide. that would make a rather big s/l. is there a safe was whereby a smaller s/l may be placed within the zone?

thanks
Quoting pgd
ken,

when levels are picked of the H4 TF, I notice the zones can be 30-50 pips wide. that would make a rather big s/l. is there a safe was whereby a smaller s/l may be placed within the zone?

thanks
Hi pgd

I can not answer for ken of course. But what I do is reduce my position size so I never get more than my planned risk. There have been times that my sl was 75 pips so that I can place it in a better place technicaly. But I reduce my position size and am looking at 75 pips for my first target.

To me it is more important to have my stop better positioned. Stops in the zone are at risk big time.
Illegitimi non carborundum - Noli pati a scelestis opprimi.
Quoting pgd
ken,

when levels are picked of the H4 TF, I notice the zones can be 30-50 pips wide. that would make a rather big s/l. is there a safe was whereby a smaller s/l may be placed within the zone?

thanks

I haven't rushed into the entries as of yet as there is so much that matters about just picking the right levels.

But there is a confirmation entry which suites the large time frames your speaking of.

Basically price moves into the level and a PO is set for when it comes out of the level, a confirmation of the move.


Will start getting into those soon .
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • Post #4,230
  • Quote
  • Edited May 6, 2011 12:24am May 5, 2011 10:05pm | Edited May 6, 2011 12:24am
Quoting Kenneth Lee
I haven't rushed into the entries as of yet as there is so much that matters about just picking the right levels.

But there is a confirmation entry which suites the large time frames your speaking of.

Basically price moves into the level and a PO is set for when it comes out of the level, a confirmation of the move.


Will start getting into those soon .
Thanks, Ken.

yes, that would be possible. i'd imagined these would be touch trades that could happen while one is away from the screen.

Another question:

If tops / bottoms are rounded or made up of several bars, how would you mark levels of those?

For convenience, I picked out a section of one of your posted charts and attached it as an example. Kindly demonstrate by marking the levels in there and explain the reasoning.

Thanks.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: complex.gif Size: 195 KB
PGD...
I can't speak for ken,

the easyist way to think of it... As a bull and bear fight... You want to find the exact spot where the bears overtook the bulls. Sometimes swiching timeframes will give you a clearer picture. I might suggest looking at the different time frames to get the clearest picture.
The only system that will work is one designed by and for yourself.
Quoting bloodpoodle
PGD...
I can't speak for ken,

the easyist way to think of it... As a bull and bear fight... You want to find the exact spot where the bears overtook the bulls. Sometimes swiching timeframes will give you a clearer picture. I might suggest looking at the different time frames to get the clearest picture.
thanks, bp.

true, picturing the bull/bear fight and takeover does make it more graphic.

I quite understand that one may find better clarity in a different timeframe.
my question, however, was based on the assumption that that was the clearest formation available after scanning higher and lower timeframes.

cheers.
Quoting pgd
ken,

when levels are picked of the H4 TF, I notice the zones can be 30-50 pips wide. that would make a rather big s/l. is there a safe was whereby a smaller s/l may be placed within the zone?

thanks
Though Ken had made a point by saying he will be putting PO after the price has left the zone.

What I have notice from those levels is that one can be tempted and rush into the trade as if the level cannot be broken. If the level is going to hold you will notice that if you have PO the price may go against you so much and later bounce from the zone.

What I believe is the best is to wait for PA at that level. We all started with "Ken's continuing successes with EO's system". There are setups we are looking for at HTF to pull the trigger or setup will take to HTF level. Most of the time the levels Ken is teaching now confluence with HTF. Let me give a good example with my chart. I have a level on AU since last week on 4hrs and I place PO at the middle of the zone 1.0565 without SL (though not a good idea) because I know price will hurt for SL and bounce.

What I am try to say is that if I had waited for PA which eventually occurs (DBLHC) I would have gotten same or better entry close to my PO and would have establish my SL then. What if the price continue south? I would have been in mess. Sorry for that I won't repeat it again. lol

I eventually closed Just 40 pips when I had plan for minimum of 100pips. That is also one of my major problem. I think Ken has to start a discussion on how to hold on to our trade than exiting too soon. I know it happens to Ken most of the time too. EMOTION right? I know there was no m15 candle that gives sign of reversal. It is fear that made me close soon.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: au1.gif Size: 16 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: au2.gif Size: 14 KB
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GOOD AND EXCELLENT IS ATTENTION TO DETAILS.
I would like to thank you Ken for your kind reply, I keep going with the work and I'll be here for contribute to the forum with doubts and I hope with something usefull,

best for all

Alessandro
Quoting ejiexe
What I believe is the best is to wait for PA at that level. We all started with "Ken's continuing successes with EO's system". There are setups we are looking for at HTF to pull the trigger or setup will take to HTF level. Most of the time the levels Ken is teaching now confluence with HTF. Let me give a good example with my chart. I have a level on AU since last week on 4hrs and I place PO at the middle of the zone 1.0565 without SL (though not a good idea) because I know price will hurt for SL and bounce.

What I am try to say is that if I...
I tend to agree.

I'm happy using POs at areas where price has peaked at a high or low and very swiftly rejected off it. It's fairly easy to spot these, have a look left and see a high or a low that hasn't been visited for a fair while where price has made a sharp V shape on it's approach and rejection. Those levels, if the rejection was strong, are pretty much the holy grail (sorry!) of supply and demand setups.

Other than that, i'm only comfortabe watching price action in the zone as an entry trigger. I have to say though, whenever I have got an engulfing formation, DBHLC/DBHHC or solid pin in the zone, it's almost always produced pips for me. Often only enough to take partial profit or avoid a loss but also enough for some good profit.

I still believe that this should all be used in combination with the EO/Ken stuff. It can keep you very busy as a trader once you learn all the entries, there won't be a great deal that price can do that doesn't give you some sort of chance to open an order. Just wish i had the time to take them all!
The MOJO in the EU is hosed right now so I am getting out of the battle. Took 50 pips before it went haywire.

But as of the picture I posted price was running back and forth between supply and demand. Kinda neat.

The other was a previously posted chart. This is showing where I would be drawing in zones. But keep in mind you still need to look left. The top zone that is marked. Has it hit the zone before? We want S/D imbalance. The more the zone is punctured and the deeper price moves into the zone the more imbalance it becomes.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 5.6s.d.jpg Size: 88 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 2011-05-06_0047.png Size: 392 KB
Illegitimi non carborundum - Noli pati a scelestis opprimi.
Quoting pgd
Thanks, Ken.

yes, that would be possible. i'd imagined these would be touch trades that could happen while one is away from the screen.

Another question:

If tops / bottoms are rounded or made up of several bars, how would you mark levels of those?

For convenience, I picked out a section of one of your posted charts and attached it as an example. Kindly demonstrate by marking the levels in there and explain the reasoning.

Thanks.
One thing I have taken away from watching lots of those webinars is the fact we want to be the other side of those making the bad choices. Buying at this level was a bad choice it is clearly a retracement into the trading zone. But to mark areas for us to watch for in the future we want to focus on the point where these battles end,

That is the point we see a nice exit from these types of consolidation areas.


I posted a set of rules for finding the best areas with that is a JPG of the different exits from these areas showing the difference from just alright to best.

Hope this helps , Just how I see things. Ken
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: answer.JPG Size: 308 KB
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
Quoting Kenneth Lee
One thing I have taken away from watching lots of those webinars is the fact we want to be the other side of those making the bad choices. Buying at this level was a bad choice it is clearly a retracement into the trading zone. But to mark areas for us to watch for in the future we want to focus on the point where these battles end,

That is the point we see a nice exit from these types of consolidation areas.

I posted a set of rules for finding the best areas with that is a JPG of the different exits from these areas showing the difference from...
Thanks, Ken.

Rufus has also marked his preferred levels on the same chart.
what are your comments on his choices?

cheers.
Quoting pgd
Thanks, Ken.

Rufus has also marked his preferred levels on the same chart.
what are your comments on his choices?

cheers.
is are the best in my eyes
but not the areas you had highlighted , But definite the areas that price moved away from the best. The long red candles.


you need to keep doing this every time you sit down at your computer look for the level above and below . Mark them and save then come back and see what happened . It will not take long to see where they work the best .
also place them on different time frames , to see if they are clearer on another chart. this may give you the knowledge to trade absent using PO's if you don't have the time. I personally am liking the 30 min chart for seeing S/D levels seems to be clear enough . Though keep the 4 hr and daily for your big view as always.
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
From some of Rufus's comments in previous post, I know we see things a bit different which is the way of the world . None of this has to fit on the head of a PIN, sometimes broad strokes work best .

His areas and his trading is very good. At my level (which is new) to this S/D trading I am just trying to follow some defined very simple rules put forth by Sam. In those webinars as he has not varied in his information in over 5 years that those have been on the web.

You don't find that often , The consistency of his approach and simplicity is very refreshing and I believe what I personally have been looking for. I have laid down the best I can how these areas are defined off his teachings and over the last 3 weeks (Told you i was new at this) My levels have been scarey correct.

My placement of S/R had always been good as well. But using his information price turns almost to the pip at each level then runs to the next level. No one can teach you how to do it. it is in front of us all and we all see a bit different from each other. I really like the precision of the a levels others would still prefer the levels to be areas.

No one is wrong and both can be traded very well. Just a good basic understanding of how price flows across your screen is the main key and not to fight that flow.

A constant look at your high charts is also a good thing to see where price MAY be headed and keep us from fighting something we don't see on our smaller charts.

As a example Sam in one webinar mentioned price on a daily or weekly chart had entered a supply level , he took 4 or 5 shorts within that level over the course of 4 or 5 days on faster charts as this was the major level it should have turned back at. In the end though it did break the top and continued up. But after he had many good trades and only MAYBE one Loss.

He might not have had a loss as with his skills you can see the areas being breached especially when that happens over the period of a few days. That is probably the only pattern that is valid in trading this style the ascending and descending triangles.

Which alone show the decreasing of one of the forces on the price. Along with the small crossing of a level with the candles closing slightly deeper into the level until it is broken with a POP out the other side , which gives us the Point where the supply or demand became the one driving force.


Just like a balance scale. As long as their is close to equal buyers and sellers the scales will teeter in basically a small area making small candles of differing colors. ( Consolidation) when one of two things happen to a balance scale to much on one side or not enough on the other, The scale will move decisively in one direction quickly.

So the same is true with our charts , If we get to many sellers or to few buyers price goes down . the opposite is to many buyers or not enough sellers price goes up.

If this happens slowly we can see our small marks getting longer on each stroke leaning towards the breakout. The body of each candle showing the best information.

That is one of my views anyway. We each have to find what works for our minds to see, Draw on your past to find the key and relate the price movement to what makes sense to you . As a person that bought and sold material I can also now see this as pricing levels of a big supply house. Differing levels being the different buying or selling opportunities and the higher charts being the levels of known levels we can sell or buy at.

So using that idea if we know we can sell a product at a certain level we aren't afraid to buy it cheap and hold it until the profit margin is the best.
This is what many do in investing. Buy Low and hold till the price goes back up. Using supply and demand this is all we are doing and are using the historical information as a GUIDE.

But the scale analogy is the best way to see current price action in current conditions play out.

Cheers Ken
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
1 trader viewing now