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-   -   MM (Money Maker) Detective Indicator (https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=911239)

Weyk Apr 30, 2019 2:54am | Post# 381

{quote} You're right, in principle it's the Gartley AB-CD with calculated trading values (Entry, SL, TP, BE). A very short description: http://www.traderencyclopedia.com/wi...trading_system But I do not want to talk about it for long, because that has nothing to do with this thread. {image}
Hello SwingMan, can you please elaborate more on that? Looks interesting. I think you said that you will do a thread on that subject...

Looking forward to that!

Have a nice day

Nih98 Apr 30, 2019 3:23am | Post# 382

{quote} An example of a notorious repainter is the ZigZag indicator -- the algorithm actually goes back in time and adjusts its markings.
Do you know why "they" create ZigZag Indicator ? and later spreading the wrong way to use it..
Do you know why the default is 12.5.3 ? how about 2.1.1 ? could we see 'fractal' there ?

Merka Apr 30, 2019 3:36am | Post# 383

{quote} Do you know why "they" create ZigZag Indicator ? and later spreading the wrong way to use it.. Do you know why the default is 12.5.3 ? how about 2.1.1 ? could we see 'fractal' there ?
I do t know why the default setting is 12.5.3. Curios to k ow why.
How do you use 2.1.1 setting? When you have time if you can upload a chart will be much appreciated.
The zig zag used in anyway can help us on the purpose of this thread?
Thanks

swd Apr 30, 2019 3:43am | Post# 384

{quote} Do you know why "they" create ZigZag Indicator ? and later spreading the wrong way to use it.. Do you know why the default is 12.5.3 ? how about 2.1.1 ? could we see 'fractal' there ?
Hi Nih,

No doubt another form of misdirection. I've only ever used ZigZag for spotting 1-2-3 patterns, and at lower settings. I don't bother at all now. But I believe you can see fractals yes.

Kind Regards,
Paul

AndresSR Apr 30, 2019 3:46am | Post# 385

{quote} I do t know why the default setting is 12.5.3. Curios to k ow why. How do you use 2.1.1 setting? When you have time if you can upload a chart will be much appreciated. The zig zag used in anyway can help us on the purpose of this thread? Thanks
It's a standard MT4 indi....so add it to your charts with settings 2.1.1...instead of 12.5.3....

robots4me Apr 30, 2019 3:49am | Post# 386

Do you know why "they" create ZigZag Indicator ? and later spreading the wrong way to use it..
Do you know why the default is 12.5.3 ? how about 2.1.1 ? could we see 'fractal' there ?
Hello @Nih98 -- Sorry -- I'm not much help here. I haven't been trading that long and know very little about the history. The ZigZag is a very simple, yet interesting indicator. At first I thought it was great -- the Holy Grail. And then I learned the reason it looked great is because it goes back in time to fix things up -- and, then I disliked it. But now I'm back to liking it because I understand it was never intended to actually be used for generating trading signals. Rather -- it can be used to confirm a methodology or provide "context" for your brain to consider some of the finer details in the data. It shows general price direction, along with highs and lows. It should not be used for opening BUY and SELL trades.

Interesting about fractals -- when you overlay ZigZag on fractals or vice-versa you'll see many similar markings. I've only briefly looked at their algorithms and superficially there are similarities. So, yes, the ZigZag probably includes "major" fractal points -- but it also misses many other fractal points.

@SwingMan could probably write a thesis on this

parisboy Apr 30, 2019 3:58am | Post# 387

@robots4me congratulations it seems that you have integrated in your methodology the fact that "bands" "envelopes" always add visibility for analyzing Price Action

As Jim Hurst wrote in "Profit Magic " - p. 37 : " Construction of such an envelope is always the starting point for observational cyclic analysis"

you are on the right path

Nih98 Apr 30, 2019 4:15am | Post# 388

2 Attachment(s)
{quote} Hi Nih, No doubt another form of misdirection. I've only ever used ZigZag for spotting 1-2-3 patterns, and at lower settings. I don't bother at all now. But I believe you can see fractals yes. Kind Regards, Paul
I do t know why the default setting is 12.5.3. Curios to k ow why.
How do you use 2.1.1 setting? When you have time if you can upload a chart will be much appreciated.
The zig zag used in anyway can help us on the purpose of this thread?
Thanks
Hello @Nih98 -- Sorry -- I'm not much help here. I haven't been trading that long and know very little about the history. The ZigZag is a very simple, yet interesting indicator. At first I thought it was great -- the Holy Grail. And then I learned the reason it looked great is because it goes back in time to fix things up -- and, then I disliked it. But now I'm back to liking it because I understand it was never intended to actually be used for generating trading signals. Rather -- it can be used to confirm a methodology or provide "context" for...

Click to Enlarge

Name: USDCHF D1 - About Zig-Zag.png
Size: 208 KB

Happy Trading
NIH

PS. maybe some of you need my ZZ marker indi. (but please don't change her name or she will cry..lol)
! NIH98 ZZ Marker Indi.ex4

Blackeagle Apr 30, 2019 4:19am | Post# 389

{quote} @Blackeagle -- .... I had a question about something interesting you wrote in Post #302 with regards to NOT deleting targets and instead viewing them as a type of zone. Once a level is touched (and the cash collected from the nearby, accumulated stop losses), why would the MM revisit that level a short time later? ....
Please see this post. Explains clearly. But my short answer - to see the big picture.

https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...4#post12243634

Regards,
Blackeagle

robots4me Apr 30, 2019 4:28am | Post# 390

you are on the right path
@parisboy -- correction -- we are on right path. Appreciate the good word -- thanks...

One thing I am curious about is your use of the term "cyclic analysis" -- implying natural cycles. I don't want to devote multiple posts to this, but I did have a question about how one would go about integrating market theory with "MM psychology". The most important thing I learned from @George is the forex market is NOT a natural market. The key word here is "natural". Market theories assume there are natural phenomena at play. But if the phenomena are actually manipulated then "natural" cycles would simply be a part of the manipulation -- in the case forex. In nature we find fractals (not the forex kind), fibonacci numbers and other special numbers and structures -- but they occur naturally. Nothing in the forex market occurs naturally -- except man's inclination toward greed -- and that applies to retail traders as well as the MM. So, would you disagree the MM manipulates the forex market or would you say that, even in the face of that manipulation, market theories based on natural phenomenon are real?

I understand this is a favorite topic of yours and it isn't fair to ask you to keep it brief. But -- could you just give me a brief flavor of how you see the two coexisting -- since it seems to me they would be mutually exclusive. Thanks...

aaven Apr 30, 2019 4:31am | Post# 391

{quote} {quote} {quote} {image} Happy Trading NIH
Nih98,

Would it possible to share the indicator and the template you are using. Thanks for the detailed analysis...

Nih98 Apr 30, 2019 4:39am | Post# 392

{quote} Nih98, Would it possible to share the indicator and the template you are using. Thanks for the detailed analysis...
Hi Bro, Already shared my ZZ indi in my previous post.

NIH

handy148 Apr 30, 2019 4:51am | Post# 393

There have been some good threads in the past about the correlation between ZZ and Stochastics.

Landline and hepsibah provided a lot of good info on this subject.

parisboy Apr 30, 2019 4:54am | Post# 394

1 Attachment(s)
{quote} Hi Bro, Already shared my ZZ indi in my previous post. NIH
"Zig-Zags", "Cycles" and "Waves" are 3 names which design exactly the same Price Action Pattern

Short technical considerations on "cycles" or "zig-zags" - that is the same

- a downtrending Zig-Zag (Cycle) generates its Top on the LEFT : see Tops 1,4,5 in red

- an uptrending Zig-Zag (Cycle)generates its Top on the RIGHT : see Tops 2,3,6 in green

- when you are in RANGE the Top is located in the Middle
Click to Enlarge

Name: NIH98 ZIG-ZAGS 30 AVRIL 2019.png
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robots4me Apr 30, 2019 4:55am | Post# 395

Please see this post. Explains clearly. But my short answer - to see the big picture.
@Blackeagle -- thanks for pointing out the link -- I thought @George had frozen his thread. I think I've mentioned many times my appreciation to @George and his colleagues. But there is this odd passive / aggressive way of communicating information that I've never encountered before and which baffles me.

Here is a snippet of what @George just now posted in his thread:
Post #3534
FALES BREAKS ARE OF MOST IMPORTANCE ,,,, DO NOT DELETE LINES ! ! ! !
THAT IS WHY TARGET LINES SHOULD NOT BE DRAWN ,,, BY A USELESS INDICATOR ! ! ! !
AN INDICATOR IS ,,, BLIND ,,,, AND
HAS NO FEELINGS ,,,
IT IS AS DEAD AS THE BRAINS AS THEY TRADER USING IT ! ! ! ! !
So -- I may be misreading this -- but as a native English speaker I think he is saying not to delete lines, though I might be wrong. Also, I think he insulted me by calling me an idiot. But, of course, he would follow-up by saying "no disrespect". It also sounds like @George doesn't care for indicators. Yet there are posts where he waxes poetic about the TMA. Also, most of his charts include the TMA and moving averages. Those are indicators -- at least I think they are.

Here is a snippet of what @George says in Post #2407. This is the post that @George and his colleagues keep referring to:
Go back 12 to 18 months on each pair at least ,,,
Do 4 or 5 pairs ,,,,
Study each VALLEY and UPSIDE DOWN VALLEY ( PYRAMID ) ,,,,
Marking LOWS on the way UP ,,, and TOPS on the way DOWN with horizontal lines ,,,
Once u finish a vally ,, delete the lines and do the next valley ,,,
So, in one post we are lectured to delete the lines. In another post we are lectured not to delete the lines. @George is great and I'm happy he is posting again. But my dead brain can not decode what he is trying to say -- so I feel compelled to carve a new path. And the same man who would admonish everyone to think "boundlessly", then insults you for thinking in any way that is different than his. I learned a lot from @George -- but a limit was reached. There is nothing more I can learn from him. My brain wants to implode...

I'd go walk my dog, but it is 1:30a in the morning and she's checked-out for the day. Maybe I should also get an owl as a pet...

Nih98 Apr 30, 2019 5:07am | Post# 396

{quote} And the same man who would admonish everyone to think "boundlessly", then insults you for thinking in any way that is different than his. I learned a lot from @George -- but a limit was reached. There is nothing more I can learn from him. My brain wants to implode... I'd go walk my dog, but it is 1:30a in the morning and she's checked-out for the day. Maybe I should also get an owl as a pet...
Please forgive the 'Old Man' Bro. , I'm old too and sometimes Old Men doing something funny.. and sometimes we forget that Line Chart or Candlestick Chart also indicators..

NIH

robots4me Apr 30, 2019 5:14am | Post# 397

Please forgive the 'Old Man' Bro
@Nih98 -- thanks, appreciate it. I learned a lot from @George and it's sort of shame I can't even thank him without getting insulted. But it's all good -- I know it's part of the test.

bluesteele Apr 30, 2019 5:14am | Post# 398

{quote} @Blackeagle -- thanks for pointing out the link -- I thought @George had frozen his thread. I think I've mentioned many times my appreciation to @George and his colleagues. But there is this odd passive / aggressive way of communicating information that I've never encountered before and which baffles me. Here is a snippet of what @George just now posted in his thread: {quote} So -- I may be misreading this -- but as a native English speaker I think he is saying not to delete lines, though I might be wrong. Also, I think he insulted me by...

Good Morning
2:10 a.m. here haha....

Will keep this short and simple...

Targets and Valleys (H&L) are not necessarily the same thing...
And.........
Most Valleys/Peaks H/Ls do get deleted...But not all..

A little cryptic I know... Buts its late and im tired.

CHeers
Blue

parisboy Apr 30, 2019 5:16am | Post# 399

3 Attachment(s)
{quote} @parisboy -- correction -- we are on right path. Appreciate the good word -- thanks... One thing I am curious about is your use of the term "cyclic analysis" -- implying natural cycles. I don't want to devote multiple posts to this, but I did have a question about how one would go about integrating market theory with "MM psychology". The most important thing I learned from @George is the forex market is NOT a natural market. The key word here is "natural". Market theories assume there are natural phenomena at play. But if the phenomena are...
robots4me

a) I have not read @George thread (I will) so I can not have an educated advice on what George wrote and think
b) I do not know what is a "natural" market - even commodities market are not "natural"
c) for me we are dealing on a screen with dots whatever the market we trade
d) we can use exactly the same tools and see endlessly the same repetitive patterns, cycles, waves, zig-zags, harmonics patterns etc on whatever financial entity we analyze and trade

i see no differences between an index, a currency or a share
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aaven Apr 30, 2019 5:26am | Post# 400

{quote} Hi Bro, Already shared my ZZ indi in my previous post. NIH
Thanks Nih98...


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