Forex Factory (https://www.forexfactory.com/forum.php)
-   Trading Systems (https://www.forexfactory.com/forumdisplay.php?f=71)
-   -   MM (Money Maker) Detective Indicator (https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=911239)

robots4me May 14, 2019 6:56pm | Post# 1541

{quote} Robots4me, excellent explanation. About paying attention to the details by the "indicators are useless" crowd. They are traders who have tried using indicators and failed to make sense of how to use them correctly. Such traders have wrongly assumed that the indicator crowd pay insufficient attention to the details. They have no idea what they are talking about. Fact is the level of detail attention paid by those who do use indicators successfully goes way beyond anyones imagination. Without doubt far beyond just ticks, reorganised into bars,...
Throughout this great journey started by George and following on with this thread, has anyone managed to put all the pieces together into a solid tradable strategy? Would anyone like to share their system if they having something to share?

@skyway -- do you see what I mean?

pet3250 May 14, 2019 7:02pm | Post# 1542

1 Attachment(s)
I am taking a trade on the USDCAD heading short towards the liquidity zone starting at around 1.32490 its a fair way down so I am just going to monitor it and see how it goes. Taking 3 positions.
Click to Enlarge

Name: Screenshot1.png
Size: 139 KB

robots4me May 14, 2019 7:02pm | Post# 1543

{quote} Take what you have written in context to trading price gap and liquidity gap, and price action. Does it make sense ? We have to remember that the broker receive aggregate tick data. What tick data he sends to our mt4 platform and when he sends those ticks may and do get manipulated, meaning the brokers input to output tick is different and intentionally made so. It's open secret that brokers use plug-in algos for this manipulation job. Watching price action is actually watching manipulated incoming brokers tick. That's the "screen time"...
@skyway -- okay, they spice it up a bit.

But that's not the point. The point is this -- the data arrives at your MT4 session in the form of ticks. The MT4 software arbitrarily combines the raw tick data into other representations to make it easier for humans to visualize, pick out patterns and make discretionary decisions. There is no reality to OHLC -- it's just a way of placing arbitrary 'First' and 'Last' fence posts within a continuous stream of numbers (i.e. ticks, prices).

Robot Trader May 14, 2019 7:23pm | Post# 1544

“Here's an example -- consider an H1 chart and 3 consecutive ticks (i.e. prices). There is the tick that arrives exactly at 12:00, there is the tick that arrived just prior to 12:00, and there is the tick that arrives just after 12:00. And let's say the ticks arrived within seconds or milliseconds of one another. The one that arrived exactly at 12:00 becomes the "Open" -- and we treat it special. The one that arrived a few milliseconds prior is the "Close" -- and we treat that one special, as well. The poor tick that arrived a few milliseconds after 12:00 does not get a special name and becomes a faceless tick in the crowd. The 3 ticks all arrived within milliseconds of one another -- is the one that arrived a few milliseconds before noon (i.e. the Close tick) really more significant than the tick that arrives a few milliseconds after noon? Of course not.

Robot4me

Thinking about your example further the Tick that arrived at 12:00 is both the Open/Close Tick it's the Open Tick for the newly forming candle and it's the closing Tick for the 1 minute candle that Opened at 11:59

robots4me May 14, 2019 7:28pm | Post# 1545

...So in your example at best the Tick that arrived prior to 12:00 could be used as the Open price for 12:00 otherwise we have a gap.
BINGO !! That is correct.

But I would add that though it's a gap, it's probably a price gap (as opposed to a liquidity gap). Price gaps and liquidity gaps are different. I've learned from @George that liquidity gaps get filled a majority of the time, whereas price gaps do not -- and that now makes sense to me. Another way of putting it is that liquidity gaps serve as targets, price gaps do not.

robots4me May 14, 2019 7:33pm | Post# 1546

{quote} I don't accept that any trader who attempts to trade forex successfully is lazy. On the contrary, they are mostly hardworking folks. Such words come across as insult to the reader. The problem is not lazy. The problem lies in lack of knowledge. You are not lazy. You just lack knowledge. And your knowledge is growing as you learn more from traders like George and his inner family. In your own personal journey you will learn more things from other traders in the future that is now still unknown to you. New knowledge may render your current...
@skyway -- yes, well said. Your best post so far...

robots4me May 14, 2019 7:36pm | Post# 1547

Thinking about your example further the Tick that arrived at 12:00 is both the Open/Close Tick it's the Open Tick for the newly forming candle and it's the closing Tick for the 1 minute candle that Opened at 11:59
@Robot Trader -- if a new tick did not arrive from the broker's data provider at 12:00 and your broker had to use the next best tick then, yes, I believe it is as you describe.

Robot Trader May 14, 2019 7:39pm | Post# 1548

{quote} @Robot Trader -- if a new tick did not arrive from the broker's data provider at 12:00 and your broker had to use the next best tick then, yes, I believe it is as you describe.
But in your example (of three ticks) it did arrive at 12:00 hence I have corrected my response

Robot Trader May 14, 2019 7:52pm | Post# 1549

{quote} I agree with you. And the broker manipulates this ticks. Broker A has completely different ticks to broker B. In such a scenario, we "see" price gaps and liquidity gaps some created by broker manipulation. We watch "price action" which is manipulated by brokers in their own individual way. "Price action" or incoming ticks of broker A is different from broker B. OHLC of broker A is different from broker B. Price gap of broker A is different from broker B. And so on... My question is ..... Does it make sense to interprete all of that plus...
Brokers are all about making sure their customers orders are filled (no order no Broker commission/Spread Fee) and many have more than one liquidity provider to achieve this, it's very important that you ask your broker if they have more than one liquidity provider. This is because during times of low liquidity Brokers will go from one liquidity provider to another looking to get your order filled regardless of spread. It is much better to use a Broker with only one liquidity feed, then say during the NFP when liquidity is very low and their liquidity provider stops giving quotes your broker will not take the risk of filling your order until their feed returns to normal.

The only other thing that can influence OHLC is your Brokers server time.

Nih98 May 14, 2019 8:00pm | Post# 1550

{quote} But in your example (of three ticks) it did arrive at 12:00 hence I have corrected my response
TIME, is one of the most important thing in visual information. Time, is 'constant' part of the dot coordinate. Without time you can't organize your manipulated incoming 'ticks' into useful visual information. The original base of fractal is 'time' 11:59:59, 12:00:00. 12:00:01 is 'fractal' and 'shift' to next fractal at 12:00:00, 12:00:01, 12:00:02. So, this is the first coordinate, then the 2nd coordinate is the value (in this case manipulated incoming tick value), this still in 2 forms of Bid value and Ask value, and the phantom value of (Bid+Ask)/2 to get mid value. If there's no 'new' value then the trading platform engine will use previous value to 'fill' the time slot.

So, simply when I said about single bar fractal, actually I talk about "one dot to the left" of the highest or lowest value in 'time' compare to 'one dot to the right' of it.
Pay attention to the term 'bar' that mean this is old story..lol

NIH

robots4me May 14, 2019 9:08pm | Post# 1551

{quote} I agree with you. And the broker manipulates this ticks. Broker A has completely different ticks to broker B. In such a scenario, we "see" price gaps and liquidity gaps some created by broker manipulation. We watch "price action" which is manipulated by brokers in their own individual way. "Price action" or incoming ticks of broker A is different from broker B. OHLC of broker A is different from broker B. Price gap of broker A is different from broker B. And so on... My question is...... Does it make sense to interprete all of that plus...
@skyway -- when talking about live trading let's leave out OHLC -- it doesn't exist. There are only ticks.

Does it make sense to interprete all of that plus identifying bar/candle patterns and levels when the manipulated ticks are different with different brokers ?

Good question -- I don't know the answer. This point was touched upon the other day when @George gave us that exercise (which I'd like for him to do again). @George let us take some shots at it before providing his take. Turns out there was a 0.1 pip liquidity gap in his chart. This is the level of precision that not only he trades at but which he wanted to point out proves there is an algorithm at work behind the scenes. Then I recall one or two people posted that charts from their broker did not include that 0.1 pip. I don't remember the outcome of that particular discussion.

No doubt there will be variations in broker data. Even setting aside their manipulations -- there is no "official" data feed and there is more than

robots4me May 14, 2019 9:19pm | Post# 1552

{quote} Brokers are all about making sure their customers orders are filled (no order no Broker commission/Spread Fee) and many have more than one liquidity provider to achieve this, it's very important that you ask your broker if they have more than one liquidity provider. This is because during times of low liquidity Brokers will go from one liquidity provider to another looking to get your order filled regardless of spread. It is much better to use a Broker with only one liquidity feed, then say during the NFP when liquidity is very low and their...
@Robot Trader -- a few points...

1. When trading live there is no such thing as OHLC -- only ticks (i.e. the current price).
2. The order filling we're talking about is not your broker's orders. Your broker has such a small piece of the pie their order requirements probably have little to no influence on the tick data.
3. Your broker's server time has no bearing on the tick data. Whether a broker is GMT+0 or GMT+2 the price of EURUSD at a particular moment will be the same (even though the servers will be 2 hours apart). We don't trade on OHLC data -- we trade based on tick data (i.e. the current price).

RyanGriffith May 14, 2019 9:21pm | Post# 1553

Is this available for MT5
{quote} @Robot Trader -- a few points... 1. When trading live there is no such thing as OHLC -- only ticks (i.e. the current price). 2. The order filling we're talking about is not your broker's orders. Your broker has such a small piece of the pie their order requirements probably have little to no influence on the tick data. 3. Your broker's server time has no bearing on the tick data. Whether a broker is GMT+0 or GMT+2 the price of EURUSD at a particular moment will be the same (even though the servers will be 2 hours apart). We don't trade on...

Robot Trader May 14, 2019 9:39pm | Post# 1554

{quote} @Robot Trader -- a few points... 1. When trading live there is no such thing as OHLC -- only ticks (i.e. the current price). 2. The order filling we're talking about is not your broker's orders. Your broker has such a small piece of the pie their order requirements probably have little to no influence on the tick data. 3. Your broker's server time has no bearing on the tick data. Whether a broker is GMT+0 or GMT+2 the price of EURUSD at a particular moment will be the same (even though the servers will be 2 hours apart). We don't trade on...
The topic was about OHLC and whether they exist, so server time plays apart in OHLC.

Also many traders strategy's are based on confirmation regarding OHLC, they will wait for a candle to close before opening a trade or will wait for a candle to close before closing a trade.

Yes this is a visual thing when trading manually, but I have EA's that have parameters that can either close trades Intrabar or Closed Bar

robots4me May 14, 2019 9:58pm | Post# 1555

{quote} The topic was about OHLC and whether they exist, so server time plays apart in OHLC. Also many traders strategy's are based on confirmation regarding OHLC, they will wait for a candle to close before opening a trade or will wait for a candle to close before closing a trade. Yes this is a visual thing when trading manually, but I have EA's that have parameters that can either close trades Intrabar or Closed Bar
@Robot Trader -- fair enough.

I was stuck on liquidity gaps and whether wicks should or should not be used to fill them.

robots4me May 14, 2019 10:15pm | Post# 1556

{quote} The topic was about OHLC and whether they exist, so server time plays apart in OHLC. Also many traders strategy's are based on confirmation regarding OHLC, they will wait for a candle to close before opening a trade or will wait for a candle to close before closing a trade. Yes this is a visual thing when trading manually, but I have EA's that have parameters that can either close trades Intrabar or Closed Bar
but I have EA's that have parameters that can either close trades Intrabar or Closed Bar

Yep -- and in order to close trades based on a Close bar your EA has to wait until the next Open tick before it knows the price of a Close bar.

Programmatically, when traversing OHLC data, you index through arrays like Open[], Close[], High[] and Low[]. Index '0' is refers to the current bar. Index '1' refers to the previous bar. At index '0' the only price your EA knows for sure is Open[0] -- which is carved in stone. Close[0], High[0] and Low[0] are still in flux. At the start of the next bar then the Close, High and Low become carved in stone. That's why most EAs that access Close prices will use Close[1] -- since that is the true Close of the previous bar. There is no Close[0] -- i.e. no close for the current bar. Your EA's code may reference Close[0], but Close[0] is constantly fluctuating -- so, it is usually considered incorrect to use Close[0] to make trading decisions.

Robot Trader May 14, 2019 10:22pm | Post# 1557

{quote} {quote} Yep -- and in order to close trades based on a Close bar your EA has to wait until the next Open tick before it knows the price of a Close bar. Programmatically, when traversing OHLC data, you index through arrays like Open[], Close[], High[] and Low[]. Index '0' is refers to the current bar. Index '1' refers to the previous bar. At index '0' the only price your EA knows for sure is Open[0] -- which is carved in stone. Close[0], High[0] and Low[0] are still in flux. At the start of the next bar then the Close, High and Low become...
Correct

EA will wait for close Bar before closing trade and it is also TF dependent, so if I place EA on M15, I will get different results than H1

btrfx1 May 14, 2019 10:56pm | Post# 1558

Hi Steve,
Do you receive PM's ?
I am looking for a bit of help so I can help you.
When you got time would appreciate a reply
Ben

robots4me May 14, 2019 11:14pm | Post# 1559

I am taking a trade on the USDCAD heading short towards the liquidity zone starting at around 1.32490 its a fair way down so I am just going to monitor it and see how it goes. Taking 3 positions. {image}
@pet3250 -- it looks like there are other targets, so it will be interesting to see how this goes.

Since 'momentum' kept coming up in discussions, I am now incorporating it in my charts. Though I can now see targets (on both sides of the current price) I am still unsure which direction to go. Perhaps including momentum as a filter will help.

robots4me May 14, 2019 11:15pm | Post# 1560

Hi Steve, Do you receive PM's ? I am looking for a bit of help so I can help you. When you got time would appreciate a reply Ben
Hello @Ben -- I replied a few minutes ago, though I'm not sure I answered correctly.


© Forex Factory