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-   -   MM (Money Maker) Detective Indicator (https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=911239)

rajandaas May 12, 2019 8:20am | Post# 1441

{quote} Well I dont know where I said i did not take trades at these Red arrows.. Perhaps you can point out where I said I did not ? For illustrative purposes I used a 15M chart to show a point. And to CHERRY PICK an EXAMPLE showing the PRECISENESS OF THE MM . BUT I take all my entries off the 1M chart.... and not solely based on these levels shown. I also use the 1hr and 4hr in conjuction with 15M and 1M there are many filters involved,,Read Georges thread is my best advice to you. Again ADR Time and Balance are major factors in deciding in what...
Hi Blue,

How do you determine ADR time and balance?

Rajnidas

robots4me May 12, 2019 8:36am | Post# 1442

{quote} You call that "MM psychology manipulation". I call it orderflow. If this "MM psychology manipulation" narrative works for you, great. If price action and manual trading without the use of indicators works for you, great. Pic shows GJ last Friday. {image} {image}
@skyway -- this is a good point -- order flow versus MM manipulation.

Yes -- orders need to be fulfilled. But their timing and priorities may either be problematical for the MM or offer opportunities to make more money -- hence the motivation to manipulate prices.

The manipulation comes into play when you see how target levels are created to lure traders in one direction or the other. This is different than simply transacting orders (i.e. order flow).

Since there are a fixed number of units of each currency then every BUY must be matched by a SELL. Suppose a large BUY order comes in at a certain price, but there are no units of that currency available at that price. Perhaps the MM has to shake the tree a bit to harvest some units to satisfy the BUY order. I don't know. At this time I'm just blowing smoke. But since no one yet has come up with a better explanation then I keep offering that one.

Perhaps the MM's motivation isn't to gobble up buckets of stop losses for the sake of gobbling stop losses but, rather, to free-up currency units (at specific prices) to satisfy stacks of BUY and SELL orders that otherwise couldn't be transacted and would remain unfilled.

So, yes, it all comes down to order flow. But the order flow gets stuck when there isn't sufficient liquidity to fulfill all the orders. The purpose of the manipulation may simply be to create sufficient liquidity to transact orders. Does this make any sense?

robots4me May 12, 2019 8:46am | Post# 1443

{quote} Manipulation in that context, yes
Ahhhh -- my purpose in life has been fulfilled. I've received a from @skyway...

northwind May 12, 2019 9:51am | Post# 1444

{quote} @skyway -- this is a good point -- order flow versus MM manipulation. Yes -- orders need to be fulfilled. But their timing and priorities may either be problematical for the MM or offer opportunities to make more money -- hence the motivation to manipulate prices. The manipulation comes into play when you see how target levels are created to lure traders in one direction or the other. This is different than simply transacting orders (i.e. order flow). Since there are a fixed number of units of each currency then every BUY must be matched...
Hi r4m, Thank you for creating this fantastic discussion.

northwind May 12, 2019 10:25am | Post# 1445

{quote} Pls delete this post. Else this thread may be sent to commercial section. TQ
TQ, post deleted.

bluesteele May 12, 2019 1:35pm | Post# 1446

{quote} Read especially Darkstar posts on orderflow. https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=277925 And, read about Auction Market Theory here. https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=277528
Dark Star is a proven scammer. And his theories are crap. Thus why he went the route he did .. because his "Orderflow" is useless.. he could not make a dime trading lol.... He even failed trying to.market his training.,. Then failed trying to market others training.

If his theories and methods were any good traders would of made money ... There would have been some successful students... But nope I'm.afrsid not.....

As for manipulation,... Well as George would say... To the " iignorant and uninformed" traders you are blind. I'd have to agree.

I think Steve has seen enough examples sitting with George to open his eyes to the manipulation.

The world's largest market...but no manipulation.. hahahaha ..... Sounds like a dreamworld to.think.that all is on the up and up.

All markets / commodities are manipulated..
Involve...Man & Money &,Power and the powers to be will steal absolutely as much as they possibly can. Mmm reminds me I need to fill my gas tank up... Only $1.70 a litre here for the cheap grade ...such a deal.
OR
It can just be the honest brokers and each successive layer of honest liquidity provider MM ..right up the food chain... Just filling orders...giving to charity and supporting the local boys clubs etc

Cheers
Blue

robots4me May 12, 2019 2:25pm | Post# 1447

{quote} Read especially Darkstar posts on orderflow. https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=277925 And, read about Auction Market Theory here. https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=277528
@skyway -- I briefly browsed the links and, yes, I'd say these are all related.

If people are interested in digging deeper to better understand order flow, market structure, whatever -- those links could be a good place to start.

Now -- back to the present. I'm not really interested in the "how's" and "why's" of market structure -- just like I'm not interested in how internal combustion engines work when all I want to do is drive to the market to pickup a frozen pizza. If something makes me a better trader (or driver) then, sure. But speculating on the details of how something as vast, complex, non-transparent as MM is just an intellectual exercise. I mean, would you rather attach an indicator or two to a chart to help figure out your next trading opportunity, or would you rather read about order flow? It's a rhetorical question -- I know how you would answer.

If you have a chart that shows a particular price movement and can tie that into "MM psychology", "order flow", whatever you wish to call it, then I think that would be interesting. Actually -- since I think we can agree we are talking about the same thing, then how about sticking with "MM psychology".

Husky77 May 12, 2019 2:29pm | Post# 1448

{quote} Dark Star is a proven scammer. And his theories are crap. Thus why he went the route he did .. because his "Orderflow" is useless.. he could not make a dime trading lol.... He even failed trying to.market his training.,. Then failed trying to market others training. If his theories and methods were any good traders would of made money ... There would have been some successful students... But nope I'm.afrsid not..... As for manipulation,... Well as George would say... To the " iignorant and uninformed" traders you are blind. I'd have to agree....
that dude was just a trickster fooling around nothing more,really nothing useful to take into consideration from his tricky posts.
On the other side i think some guys here try to hit some invisible targets instead to visualize what they have in front of their eyes.
I see George really gave a lot of interesting info and some screens in this thread and his main thread as well. for me to be honest is all about mindset and one particular way to look at market.
I tend to believe for most (including me) even if George will give all his indicators + exact settings we will still dont get it,at least for me i didnt had yet that AHA moment,and even if i had a short talk with George and the guys a month back,they are really cool people by the way a pleasure to talk. but i realized that no matter how much George will ''scream'' in my ear i still dont get it 100% as long i have different mindset when i look to the charts,and here's the problem.
so first to be changed i will say is the psychological state of mind and only then you will start to easy figure cool stuff way much different from all you knew before. I'm doing my way of course but i still dig into stuff unknown for me maybe, try different view and rearrange mindset for visualize any new potential.
cheer up

bluesteele May 12, 2019 3:01pm | Post# 1449

{quote} that dude was just a trickster fooling around nothing more,really nothing useful to take into consideration from his tricky posts. On the other side i think some guys here try to hit some invisible targets instead to visualize what they have in front of their eyes. I see George really gave a lot of interesting info and some screens in this thread and his main thread as well. for me to be honest is all about mindset and one particular way to look at market. I tend to believe for most (including me) even if George will give all his indicators...
Hey Husky !

Hope all is well my friend !!!
Yes you are exactly correct ! Changing the mindset is the first and most important part of the whole equation.
In all areas of life....Trading is no different.

"When we change the way we look at things, The things we look at change"

Cheers
Blue

robots4me May 12, 2019 3:02pm | Post# 1450

{quote} Dark Star is a proven scammer. And his theories are crap. Thus why he went the route he did .. because his "Orderflow" is useless.. he could not make a dime trading lol.... He even failed trying to.market his training.,. Then failed trying to market others training. If his theories and methods were any good traders would of made money ... There would have been some successful students... But nope I'm.afrsid not..... As for manipulation,... Well as George would say... To the " iignorant and uninformed" traders you are blind. I'd have to agree....
Hey Blue -- thanks for your post. Always interesting to get your take on things -- and read between the lines

It can just be the honest brokers and each successive layer of honest liquidity provider MM ..right up the food chain... Just filling orders...giving to charity and supporting the local boys clubs
Yes, I agree. I think when I was three my parents read a fairy tale to me where the world worked exactly that way.

Look it -- in our personal lives we are all MMs. Seriously, is there anyone here who can say they've never manipulated something or someone to gain an edge? The MM is like a fractal, made up of smaller patterns -- all the same. We, as individuals, are one of the smaller patterns.

@bluesteele -- you keep applying the word "useless" to things you disagree with. Most of us here probably have no clue who @DarkStar is -- nor do we care. Also, @DarkStar is not around to defend himself or offer his version. I read a few posts from the link @skyway shared and they were rather benign. Why rag on a guy and his thread from 8 years ago?

I posed a couple simple, direct questions to you a few posts ago -- but no response. And, of course, that's fine. But I've moved on from mocking @George et al, @skyway has moved on (sort of), but it seems you are still stuck in "mocking mode". We get it -- prices are manipulated. Yes -- @George has shown this through his precision.

Most of us are now interested in where we go from here. Now that we are aware of the manipulation, have our eyes open for what kind of things to look for (e.g. target levels, gaps), then how about some clues from you on how to trade it?

@George has shown a light -- many of us now see things we hadn't seen before. Everyone should tip their hat to @George. But now it is on to devising methodologies for how best to trade with this new insight. There are some really, really smart people around here. You think it can't be done -- okay, we'll see. If you can share some details that would be great -- and, if not, that is also fine. If I were in your shoes, I'm not sure I would share that much -- but that's up to you. Calling everything useless doesn't help -- especially after things you previously called useless turn out not to be so useless.

robots4me May 12, 2019 3:15pm | Post# 1451

{quote} that dude was just a trickster fooling around nothing more,really nothing useful to take into consideration from his tricky posts. On the other side i think some guys here try to hit some invisible targets instead to visualize what they have in front of their eyes. I see George really gave a lot of interesting info and some screens in this thread and his main thread as well. for me to be honest is all about mindset and one particular way to look at market. I tend to believe for most (including me) even if George will give all his indicators...
Hey @Husky77 -- nice to get a post from you.

You refer to a "psychological state of mind" -- and I understand you are referring to trading. I haven't been around FF that long but I've noticed there is a more fundamental "psychological state of mind" that needs changing -- and that is how certain people respond to something new.

When it comes to trading, there is no such thing as a psychological state of mind. If I hand you a winning EA do you really need to see a shrink before using it? If you see that it performs well then you will use it immediately. The psychological state I'm referring to is those of us with big egos (myself included) tend to mock others who pose a threat -- it's a defensive mechanism.

People who can check their egos at the door grasped @George's message immediately. Others, like myself, took longer. And there are still more (like yourself) who will take longer -- or never. We all take different paths -- and to be honest -- I don't think we have much say. The path we are currently taking has already been programmed into our subconscious. It's next to impossible to change a path that we aren't even aware of.

bluesteele May 12, 2019 3:18pm | Post# 1452

{quote} Hey Blue -- thanks for your post. Always interesting to get your take on things -- and read between the lines {quote} Yes, I agree. I think when I was three my parents read a fairy tale to me where the world worked exactly that way. Look it -- in our personal lives we are all MMs. Seriously, is there anyone here who can say they've never manipulated something or someone to gain an edge? The MM is like a fractal, made up of smaller patterns -- all the same. We, as individuals, are one of the smaller patterns. @bluesteele -- you keep...
Well said Steve...I have to agree with you . Touche

Except for Darkstar lol... He recently resurfaced a few months ago...trying to say he can guarantee you take a $100 account to $1 Million in one month !
You just need to buy his course lol....Now I know this has nothing to do with this thread...But i dont care if its Skyway or anyother member.... They bring up his name and say he has material we can learn from.. I will call bullshit all day long to anyone who is referencing him as a source for learning.
Darkstar did reference some interesting things...i.e. manipulation etc.... But hes a scammer and thus why he was removed from the forum.

SO if you have an extra hundred or so laying about get ahold of Darkstar he will make you a millionaire by summertime hahahahaha....

OK ive said my peace....onwards and upwards.....

Cheers
Blue

robots4me May 12, 2019 3:22pm | Post# 1453

{quote} Well said Steve...I have to agree with you . Touche Except for Darkstar lol... He recently resurfaced a few months ago...trying to say he can guarantee you take a $100 account to $1 Million in one month ! You just need to buy his course lol....Now I know this has nothing to do with this thread...But i dont care if its Skyway or anyother member.... They bring up his name and say he has material we can learn from.. I will call bullshit all day long to anyone who is referencing him as a source for learning. Darkstar did reference some interesting...
Hey Blue -- fair enough.

he will make you a millionaire by summertime
Not interested. Using what I've learned from @George, I expect to make that much before noon...

Husky77 May 12, 2019 3:27pm | Post# 1454

{quote} Hey @Husky77 -- nice to get a post from you. You refer to a "psycholog...
believe it or not i had no ego problems to get in contact with George and with the guys,really none.was more just a matter of other things in management.but George was really open and fast to get in touch which was a nice surprise for me,guys was pleasant in our little talk. as i said the problem is on my side and the way i look at things cos i dont have that mindset yet ready for different method.
i get what you say about EA's but here we talk about what eye can see - brain to manage - finger click to execute. so manual trading based on one method with one particular requested visualization. you cant trade renko if all you see is a line,then because the line got stuck in your way of doing things for too long in execution and processing of info later when you finally see the renko candles will take some time to get rid of that line. not sure if i say it right... but anyway hope you will get it.
cheer up!

robots4me May 12, 2019 3:37pm | Post# 1455

{quote} believe it or not i had no ego problems to get in contact with George and with the guys,really none.was more just a matter of other things in management.but George was really open and fast to get in touch which was a nice surprise for me,guys was pleasant in our little talk. as i said the problem is on my side and the way i look at things cos i dont have that mindset yet ready for different method. i get what you say about EA's but here we talk about what eye can see - brain to manage - finger click to execute. so manual trading based on...
@Husky77 -- nice response -- thanks.

I'm guilty of assuming and overreacting -- my apologies. That was my subconscious at work...

bluesteele May 12, 2019 3:39pm | Post# 1456

{quote} believe it or not i had no ego problems to get in contact with George and with the guys,really none.was more just a matter of other things in management.but George was really open and fast to get in touch which was a nice surprise for me,guys was pleasant in our little talk. as i said the problem is on my side and the way i look at things cos i dont have that mindset yet ready for different method. i get what you say about EA's but here we talk about what eye can see - brain to manage - finger click to execute. so manual trading based on...
Was just going to reply something somewhat similar to Steve

Steve ...I believe in some cases ego is definitely the problem....in many lol...
But others can be attributed to mmmm extenuating circumstances that are more
personal rather than ego......

And i Just wanted to say Husky is a very humble guy and far from the members with "ego"
quite the contrary...

robots4me May 12, 2019 3:47pm | Post# 1457

{quote} Was just going to reply something somewhat similar to Steve Steve ...I believe in some cases ego is definitely the problem....in many lol... But others can be attributed to mmmm extenuating circumstances that are more personal rather than ego...... And i Just wanted to say Husky is a very humble guy and far from the members with "ego" quite the contrary...
@bluesteele -- yes, I agree.

Look it -- I have an excuse -- I'm old and grumpy. I've earned the right to assume, overreact, misinterpret, and make a fool of myself. Something the rest of you get to look forward to

bluesteele May 12, 2019 6:50pm | Post# 1458

{quote} Dude, I couldn't care less about Darkstar the scammer. It's orderflow. You seem to be interested about discrediting people. I am only interested about trading.
Well good luck learning from DarkStar !

Yes I will discredit scammers 100% always.

Because people don't know his history...they see your post and may think to find him ..buy his crap book ..buy his crap USELESS courses about Orderflow.

Mention another scammer and Old Blue will be right there speaking the truth...

Whether it's you OR anyone else...

And BTW I thought you bid good riddance to this thread ? ? ?

Why don't you post up a chart or two ? Show how Orderflow ties into MM psychology and Manipulation...

Why don't you do what you ask of others ????

That is what this thread is about... An indicator to help show manipulation...

Post up a chart like your master does....

I am sure many would love to see your take on Manipulation

Cheers
Kevin

George AUS May 12, 2019 7:11pm | Post# 1459

{quote} Would you please explain how you interpret "Momentum" by using 7,20 and 200SMAs and how you use it with your trade decisions? Thanks. Regards, Blackeagle
Mr White Eagle sir ,,,
MOMENTUM , USING THE AVERAGES ,,, IS SOMETHING THAT CAN NOT BE EXPLAINED IN TYPING OR WORDS ,,
NOT IN A MILLION YEARS ,,,,
IT HAS TO BE A VISUAL THING ON THE CHARTS AND WITH VOICE ! ! ! !

Get it ...
Hope that helps

Cheers
George

George AUS May 12, 2019 7:50pm | Post# 1460

{quote} @Bluesteele -- thanks for your post. I'm hoping you could elaborate a bit more on something you've mentioned before -- the use of "filters". To me, a filter is an "indicator" -- i.e. an external computation performed by software to help highlight some aspect(s) of a price chart. You mention ADR, momentum, balance and many more. Yet you've also posted that indicators are useless. Ques #1: How do the filters you refer to differ from the indicators I'm familiar with? Ques #2: Of the filters you (and others)...
A very good morning to u ,, YOUR MAJESTY ! ! ! !

YOUR QUOTE ::::

the use of "filters". To me, a filter is an "indicator" -- i.e. an external computation performed by software to help highlight some aspect(s

YOU ARE ,,,,, 100% WRONG ,,,

Cheers
George


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