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-   -   Are We All Gambling? (https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=876969)

TEntropy Jan 31, 2019 8:41am | Post# 1

Are We All Gambling?
 
Looking to take a poll of the traders on here.

What does gambling mean to you and are we as traders doing it?

Does betting on anything probabilistic equate to gambling?

Is it only gambling if you have a negative expectancy like playing roulette? If so, is the counter-part to your bet (the casino) not gambling?

The dictionary definition of gambling is:
1. the activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes.

Do you agree with this?

jesxrussel Jan 31, 2019 8:50am | Post# 2

what mindset do you have here??and what type of question of this...???

TEntropy Jan 31, 2019 8:54am | Post# 3

what mindset do you have here??and what type of question of this...???
It's pretty simple, I am just asking, what do you as a trader consider gambling as a whole, not specifically related to trading, and are you doing that?

hilmy83 Jan 31, 2019 8:59am | Post# 4

Definition of gamble
(Entry 1 of 2)
intransitive verb
1a: to play a game for money or property
b: to bet on an uncertain outcome
2: to stake something on a contingency (see CONTINGENCY sense 1) : take a chance
transitive verb
1: to risk by gambling : WAGER
2: VENTURE, HAZARD
gamble
noun
Definition of gamble (Entry 2 of 2)
1a: an act having an element of risk
b: something chancy

All traders are gamblers..

anyone who says they're not gambling are either delusional or doesn't understand english

TEntropy Jan 31, 2019 9:04am | Post# 5

Definition of gamble (Entry 1 of 2) intransitive verb 1a: to play a game for money or property b: to bet on an uncertain outcome 2: to stake something on a contingency (see CONTINGENCY sense 1) : take a chance transitive verb 1: to risk by gambling : WAGER...
I agree with you. I would extend it further, and say that every decision you make is a form of gambling. The only reason you act or make any actions in life is that you think there is a chance to be in a better place as a result of that action, relative to some point in the past.

A lot of people try to create an illusion of control though by pretending there is a difference between what they are doing, and gambling in order to create a fsensesince of certainty in their lives.

jesxrussel Jan 31, 2019 9:05am | Post# 6

Definition of gamble (Entry 1 of 2) intransitive verb 1a: to play a game for money or property b: to bet on an uncertain outcome 2: to stake something on a contingency (see CONTINGENCY sense 1) : take a chance transitive verb 1: to risk by gambling : WAGER...
if u wanna win in any games...u must have a strategy to beat the enemy.
in fx,u must study the technical and fundamental analysis and etc...to win...
did gamble need any strategy to win??or just depends on LUCK????

TEntropy Jan 31, 2019 9:08am | Post# 7

{quote} if u wanna win in any games...u must have a strategy to beat the enemy. in fx,u must study the technical and fundamental analysis and etc...to win... did gamble need any strategy to win??or just depends on LUCK????
I'm not 100% sure in what you are saying here, but I believe you are essentially saying, if you have an edge, it's not gambling.

If this is what you are implying/saying, I'd argue this logic is flawed though.

Even though casinos have the edge, they still can only take certain bets, which is why table limits are imposed. If they were not gambling, they would not have a need for table limits, since they are not taking a probabilistic chance to gain a favorable outcome.

jesxrussel Jan 31, 2019 9:12am | Post# 8

{quote} I agree with you. I would extend it further, and say that every decision you make is a form of gambling. The only reason you act or make any actions in life is that you think there is a chance to be in a better place as a result of that action, relative to some point in the past. A lot of people try to create an illusion of control though by pretending there is a difference between what they are doing, and gambling in order to create a fsensesince of certainty in their lives.
i think you should stop trading...and focus playing blackjack,roulette,laplapfu or anytype of gambling games...very easy,no need to study..just depends on luck

fx75 Jan 31, 2019 9:15am | Post# 9

no!
trading is a business.. if you know what you are doing.. and you are profitable coz of that!
on another side its sort of gambling when you don't know what you are doing and you just do it for fun!

TEntropy Jan 31, 2019 9:16am | Post# 10

{quote} i think you should stop trading...and focus playing blackjack,roulette,laplapfu or anytype of gambling games...very easy,no need to study..just depends on luck
So I assume it's safe to mark you down as a no? Please vote in the poll.

LDFX Jan 31, 2019 9:34am | Post# 11

Definition of gamble (Entry 1 of 2) intransitive verb 1a: to play a game for money or property b: to bet on an uncertain outcome 2: to stake something on a contingency (see CONTINGENCY sense 1) : take a chance transitive verb 1: to risk by gambling : WAGER...

If I open a business, say a restaurant, would that be gambling ?

TEntropy Jan 31, 2019 9:45am | Post# 12

{quote} If I open a business, say a restaurant, would that be gambling ?
I would say you definitely are. You are taking a huge six-figure gamble. You are betting on the probability that people will like your food enough to buy enough food to not only cover the cost of providing the food and service, but also make enough profit to make worthwhile to the shareholder(s).

LDFX Jan 31, 2019 9:47am | Post# 13

Looking to take a poll of the traders on here. What does gambling mean to you and are we as traders doing it? Does betting on anything probabilistic equate to gambling? Is it only gambling if you have a negative expectancy like playing roulette? If so, is the counter-part to your bet (the casino) not gambling? The dictionary definition of gambling is: 1. the activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes. Do you agree with this?

I voted no.

For me it all depends how you see the market, if you take it as a game then no doubt you are gambling, if you take it as a business then not.

Gambling is about games of luck.

prophetfx Jan 31, 2019 9:48am | Post# 14

if you think trading is gambling then you are yet to learn lot of things in trading.

LDFX Jan 31, 2019 9:49am | Post# 15

{quote} I would say you definitely are. You are taking a huge six-figure gamble. You are betting on the probability that people will like your food enough to buy enough food to not only cover the cost of providing the food and service, but also make enough profit to make worthwhile to the shareholder(s).
I totally disagree.

There is of course a part of bet but it is certainly not gambling.

What about the work you can put in your restaurant? What about the years of practice as a cook ? Etc...


A good example is that banks/shareholders might lend you the money to open a restaurant, would they for you to go play in casino ?

Gambling is about games of luck.

tush1822 Jan 31, 2019 9:52am | Post# 16

Since long I am learning a scientific way of trading. only one thing in mind not to Gamble!!!

TEntropy Jan 31, 2019 9:55am | Post# 17

{quote} I voted no. For me it all depends how you see the market, if you take it as a game then no doubt you are gambling, if you take it as a business then not. Gambling is about games of luck.
Very interesting...

Correct me if I am wrong, but, what are you saying is, how you observe or see your actions determines whether they have probabilistic outcomes or not?

{quote} I totally disagree. There is of course a part of bet but it is certainly not gambling. What about the work you can put in your restaurant? What about the years of practice as a cook ? Etc... Gambling is about games of luck.
Do you mind elaborating what is the difference between luck, chance, and probabilistic outcomes??

TEntropy Jan 31, 2019 9:56am | Post# 18

if you think trading is gambling then you are yet to learn lot of things in trading.
Do you mind fleshing out the difference between gambling and taking chances on probabilistic outcomes?

prophetfx Jan 31, 2019 10:00am | Post# 19

{quote} Do you mind fleshing out the difference between gambling and taking chances on probabilistic outcomes?
Gambling is random and you cant control (whatsoever) about the out come, you cant even analyze it because its just cards which are spade randomly.

Trading has many tools which can give you analysis and you can trade small or micro to save your account.

LDFX Jan 31, 2019 10:04am | Post# 20

{quote} Very interesting... Correct me if I am wrong, but, what are you saying is, how you observe or see your actions determines whether they have probabilistic outcomes or not? {quote} Do you mind elaborating what is the difference between luck, chance, and probabilistic outcomes??
Not at all, I never said that. Read again instead of snuking what you want to believe.

I won’t begin to disert about philosophy. Luck, chance and probabilities are in all aspect of life, that doesn’t mean it is gambling.

TEntropy Jan 31, 2019 10:05am | Post# 21

{quote} Gambling is random and you cant control (whatsoever) about the out come, you cant even analyze it because its just cards which are spade randomly. Trading has many tools which can give you analysis and you can trade small or micro to save your account.

Hmmm, I don't think I would agree with this.

All of the same controls you have in trading, at least the ones you mentioned, could be applied to a roulette table. You control how much to bet, what table limits you play, etc. You could also technically build an MA or Stochastic, any other TA indicator to monitor the count of the "random walk" as determined by the outcome of the roulette wheel.

Also in trading, you can not control the outcome of any one trade unless you are literally in control of the market itself, just like in roulette, the casino can not control the outcome of any one spin, again which is why they have table limits.

prophetfx Jan 31, 2019 10:07am | Post# 22

yes so any thing which you can control is not gambling, you just need to master and improve your level.

roulette or FX if you have control on it (minor or major) it is not gambling.

TEntropy Jan 31, 2019 10:12am | Post# 23

{quote} Not at all, I never said that. Read again instead of snuking what you want to believe. I won’t begin to disert about philosophy. Luck, chance and probabilities are in all aspect of life, that doesn’t mean it is gambling.
These are your literal words:

{quote} I voted no. For me it all depends how you see the market, if you take it as a game then no doubt you are gambling, if you take it as a business then not.
I don't believe I was snuking at all.

TheFxAnalyst Jan 31, 2019 10:13am | Post# 24

Looking to take a poll of the traders on here. What does gambling mean to you and are we as traders doing it? Does betting on anything probabilistic equate to gambling? Is it only gambling if you have a negative expectancy like playing roulette? If so, is the counter-part to your bet (the casino) not gambling? The dictionary definition of gambling is: 1. the activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes. Do you agree with this?

Yes, absolutely. We are betting money on unknown outcomes. That means there is risk involved and risk is a gamble. A lot of your really successful traders understand this and apply as much game theory as they can to their trading efforts and money management. In my experience, most of the people who disagree with the idea of trading as gambling, have a need to feel like they are doing something legitimate. That's just my take, other's will disagree.

9jatrader Jan 31, 2019 10:13am | Post# 25

Definition of gamble (Entry 1 of 2) intransitive verb 1a: to play a game for money or property b: to bet on an uncertain outcome 2: to stake something on a contingency (see CONTINGENCY sense 1) : take a chance transitive verb 1: to risk by gambling : WAGER...
No 2 shows we are all gamblers. Nothing wrong with gambling. It has shown that the great and successful traders were Black Jack players( gamblers )

LDFX Jan 31, 2019 10:14am | Post# 26

{quote} These are your literal words: {quote} I don't believe I was snuking at all.

How you see the market will define your actions, gambling or investing, this is what I said.

I apologize if you wasn’t.

9jatrader Jan 31, 2019 10:15am | Post# 27

They( Black Jack players ) know when odd is in their favour and increase the risk

TheFxAnalyst Jan 31, 2019 10:15am | Post# 28

{quote} No 2 shows we are all gamblers. Nothing wrong with gambling. It has shown that the great and successful traders were Black Jack players( gamblers )
Perfect example. Black Jack players are good at understanding when the deck is loaded and especially when and how much to bet.

prophetfx Jan 31, 2019 10:17am | Post# 29

Risk does not make it gambling, in fact, all businesses have a risk.

Gambling is those things where you dont have ANY control whatsoever.

9jatrader Jan 31, 2019 10:20am | Post# 30

{quote} Perfect example. Black Jack players are good at understanding when the deck is loaded and especially when and how much to bet.
Yea. Successful traders are successful gamblers

TEntropy Jan 31, 2019 10:22am | Post# 31

Risk does not make it gambling, in fact, all businesses have a risk. Gambling is those things where you dont have ANY control whatsoever.
I am not saying the fact there is a risk is what makes it gambling, it's the fact that you are looking for a result based on a probabilistic outcome or an outcome based on chance in layman's terms.

LDFX Jan 31, 2019 10:25am | Post# 32

{quote} I am not saying the fact there is a risk is what makes it gambling, it's the fact that you are looking for a result based on a probabilistic outcome or an outcome based on chance in layman's terms.

You said it all, gambling is betting on an outcome based on chance.

9jatrader Jan 31, 2019 10:28am | Post# 33

Risk does not make it gambling, in fact, all businesses have a risk. Gambling is those things where you dont have ANY control whatsoever.
Check 1b the definition. There is a word "Uncertainty" there. Where can we find more uncertainty than Forex
Definition of gamble
(Entry 1 of 2)
intransitive verb
1a: to play a game for money or property
b: to bet on an uncertain outcome
2: to stake something on a contingency (see CONTINGENCY sense 1) : take a chance
transitive verb
1: to risk by gambling : WAGER
2: VENTURE, HAZARD
gamble
noun
Definition of gamble (Entry 2 of 2)
1a: an act having an element of risk
b: something chancy

TEntropy Jan 31, 2019 10:29am | Post# 34

{quote} Yes, absolutely. We are betting money on unknown outcomes. That means there is risk involved and risk is a gamble. A lot of your really successful traders understand this and apply as much game theory as they can to their trading efforts and money management. In my experience, most of the people who disagree with the idea of trading as gambling, have a need to feel like they are doing something legitimate. That's just my take, other's will disagree.
I 100% agree with your conclusion that people don't want to consider it gambling to give themselves some form of legitimacy or control over their decisions and the outcomes of those decisions.

TheFxAnalyst Jan 31, 2019 10:30am | Post# 35

{quote} Check 1b the definition. There is a word "Uncertainty" there. Where can we find more uncertainty than Forex...
Match.com (at least that's been my experience)

LDFX Jan 31, 2019 10:35am | Post# 36

{quote} I 100% agree with your conclusion that people don't want to consider it gambling to give themselves some form of legitimacy or control over their decisions and the outcomes of those decisions.
I think it is you that’s just want to consider it gambling to not give you some form of legitimacy or control, since how long are you loosing in forex ?

As you say, “decisions”, what decision can you make on a game of luck ? In forex a lot can influence your decisions.

TEntropy Jan 31, 2019 10:46am | Post# 37

{quote} I think it is you that’s just want to consider it gambling to not give you some form of legitimacy or control, since how long are you loosing in forex ? As you say, “decisions”, what decision can you make on a game of luck ? In forex a lot can influence your decisions.
This discussion has nothing to do with whether I am profitable, you are profitable, or if Batman is profitable. It is about making decisions based on chance/luck/probabilistic outcomes, and what that means to us.

Do you mind fleshing out the details on what the difference of luck, chance, and a probabilistic outcome is in your eyes?

Because mathematically, they are all the exact same.

Also, there are many things you can control when making a decision on a game of luck/chance/probabilities.

You can choose:
- Whether to play or not to play at all, ever
- What to play
- When to play and when not to play
- How long you will play
- How much you bet on each play
- How much you will bet over an entire session
- When you will stop playing based on losses
- When you will stop playing based on gains
etc.

LDFX Jan 31, 2019 10:52am | Post# 38

“:
- Whether to play or not to play at all, ever
- What to play
- When to play and when not to play
- How long you will play
- How much you bet on each play
- How much you will bet over an entire session
- When you will stop playing based on losses
- When you will stop playing based on gains”

lol, these decisions has nothing to do with the game but about you, if you play, when you play, how long you play, etc...

Decisions would be why, on the roulette for example, choosing the 8 instead of 13 ?

fx75 Jan 31, 2019 10:52am | Post# 39

{quote} Yea. Successful traders are successful gamblers
when u buy something then sell it for profit that's tradings and it's a business
example
u buy horses and then sell them at a higher price
u just bet on a horse that's gonna win the race!
feel the difference ??!
so successful traders are successful traders!

TEntropy Jan 31, 2019 11:02am | Post# 40

“: - Whether to play or not to play at all, ever - What to play - When to play and when not to play - How long you will play - How much you bet on each play - How much you will bet over an entire session - When you will stop playing based on losses - When you will stop playing based on gains” lol, these decisions has nothing to do with the game but about you, if you play, when you play, how long you play, etc... Decisions would be why, on the roulette for example, choosing the 8 instead of 13 ?

I think you are missing the forest for the trees.

Any outcome from choosing 8 instead of 13, regardless of the reason you chose it, would be determined by the game, not by you.

Any outcome from choosing to sell at 1.14 or buy at 1.13, regardless of the reason you chose it, would be determined by the market, not you.


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