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-   -   Mouteki/Vegas 4 Hour/Price Action (https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=8283)

nutmg12 Sep 23, 2006 4:18pm | Post# 1

Mouteki/Vegas 4 Hour/Price Action
 
I am starting a new thread to get feedback on an observation I made.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>

I was a member of the Private Forum and am very grateful for all of the great information I learned there. <o></o>

I traded Knife very successfully however the one thing I was never comfortable with was the Trend Direction question. In the end I was just looking for any price move past the NL+ filter then deciding if it was a good entry.<o></o>

I have been plotting Mouteki supply and demand lines on Daily Charts (Recommended by Scott) and using that trend as my so called "Black Dot". Jim's price action is always in the picture as well.<o></o>

This week I will be trying to meld all 3 of the concepts together.<o></o>

It feels like I'm focusing in on a target that keeps getting closer and closer.<o></o>

<o></o>

Thanks to all for you help. Hope to hear some of your incite on the melding of these great systems.<o></o>

Some other things of interest to me.<o></o>


Using Mouteki Supoly and Demand Line to frame current Daily Trend.
Using Jim's price action for confirming Mouteki's Trend line entries and stops.<o></o>

Knife Entries seem to be ahead of Mouteki's Trend line entries.
Trend line entries seem to be a great confirmation of Knife entries.
Maybe a good time to add to your position?
Using Mouteki's Price Projections as a frame work for striping profit using the Knife/Vegas Tunnel and Fibs.<o></o>
More Ideas?<o></o>

jopa005 Sep 23, 2006 4:28pm | Post# 2

knife??
 
could you explain what this system its all about please.

Thx.

Neilg36 Sep 23, 2006 4:54pm | Post# 3

I am starting a new thread to get feedback on an observation I made.<o></o>

I was a member of the Private Forum and am very grateful for all of the great information I learned there. <o></o>

I traded Knife very successfully however the one thing I was never comfortable with was the Trend Direction question. In the end I was just looking for any price move past the NL+ filter then deciding if it was a good entry.<o></o>

I have been plotting Mouteki supply and demand lines on Daily Charts (Recommended by Scott) and using that trend as my so called "Black Dot". Jim's price action is always in the picture as well.<o></o>

This week I will be trying to meld all 3 of the concepts together.<o></o>

It feels like I'm focusing in on a target that keeps getting closer and closer.<o></o>

<o></o>

Thanks to all for you help. Hope to hear some of your incite on the melding of these great systems.<o></o>

Some other things of interest to me.<o></o>


Using Mouteki Supoly and Demand Line to frame current Daily Trend.
Using Jim's price action for confirming Mouteki's Trend line entries and stops.<o></o>

Knife Entries seem to be ahead of Mouteki's Trend line entries.
Trend line entries seem to be a great confirmation of Knife entries.
Maybe a good time to add to your position?
Using Mouteki's Price Projections as a frame work for striping profit using the Knife/Vegas Tunnel and Fibs.<o></o>
More Ideas?<o></o>
Hello nutmg12,

I have been using the 8 SMA from the Vegas 4Hr tunnel on the Mouteki system for the last couple of weeks. (On cable, euro and swiss).

Seems to work as a good filter.

Neil.

twinchell Sep 23, 2006 4:58pm | Post# 4

could you explain what this system its all about please.

Thx.
I doubt there will be an open discussion on a private method that people pay for. I guess you never know though.

nutmg12 Sep 23, 2006 5:01pm | Post# 5

could you explain what this system its all about please.

Thx.
I notice you have 7 posts so I assume you are new to the forum.

Welcome you have just found in my opinion the best trading resourse available.
Knife taught by Diallst
http://www.forexfactory.com/forexfor...ead.php?t=3422
Price Action taught by James16 http://www.forexfactory.com/forexfor...ead.php?t=2331
and
Mouteki Trading taught by Mouteki
http://www.forexfactory.com/forexfor...ead.php?t=7883

are 3 different trading techniques.

This thread is about using the best points of all 3. Granted I don't think there are any bad points in any of them.

nutmg12 Sep 23, 2006 5:02pm | Post# 6

Hello nutmg12,

I have been using the 8 SMA from the Vegas 4Hr tunnel on the Mouteki system for the last couple of weeks. (On cable, euro and swiss).

Seems to work as a good filter.

Neil.
Thanks Neil,
How are you using it?

nutmg12 Sep 23, 2006 5:06pm | Post# 7

I doubt there will be an open discussion on a private method that people pay for. I guess you never know though.
The great thing about the Charles and Jim as well as Mouteki is they are willing to help anyone.

Granted you get more detail when you pay for the PF. I paid for 6 months. Well worth my money. I will sign up again in the next couple months to catch up on any information I've missed however the methods they teach are available in the general Factory Forum. I posted links to their public threads in my last post.

If you consider spending money on any other resourse I highly recomend reading the reviews on the PF here before wasting money on anything else.

twinchell Sep 23, 2006 5:08pm | Post# 8

The great thing about the Charles and Jim as well as Mouteki is they are willing to help anyone.

Granted you get more detail when you pay for the PF. I paid for 6 months. Well worth my money. I will sign up again in the next couple months to catch up on any information I've missed however the methods they teach are available in the general Factory Forum. I posted links to their public threads in my last post.

If you consider spending money on any other resourse I highly recomend reading the reviews on the PF here before wasting money on anything else.
Ah, my mistake. I thought the Knife was a private method taught by Dial, while the link you provided was strickly Vegas' tunnel method.

Horace Kent Sep 23, 2006 5:49pm | Post# 9

Knife" method
 
Is there a link to the "Knife" method?

Ahil Sep 23, 2006 6:12pm | Post# 10

what is knife method?? any description on that

smjones Sep 23, 2006 6:56pm | Post# 11

The Knife method is a proprietary method taught in the private forum by subscription only... It is similar but more effective than the Vegas 4 hour method and has been greatly refined and updated. the discussion of this method is beyond the scope of this forum... That would take the approval of the owners of that forum.

Thanks Scott


what is knife method?? any description on that

masterpiecefx Sep 23, 2006 7:49pm | Post# 12

I'm looking at combining the new Tlatomi method with Mouteki, also great confirmation.
http://www.forexfactory.com/forexfor...ead.php?t=6922

but do read the whole thread, the method's been updated and revised a little in the later posts.

ffwuc Sep 23, 2006 9:23pm | Post# 13

Why mess with the systems
 
Why is it necessary to add anything else to a profitable system or integrate it with another system?
If the system works, it should not need additional filters, or the integration with another system, or whatever, to be profitable.

I suggest reading this post http://www.forexfactory.com/forexfo...05&postcount=42
by pipscooper on my thread to get a greater understanding of why it should not be necessary to modify a profitable system.
At least not a week after it has been released...
or is the market really evolving that fast.

You may want to read the rest of my thread if you don't think there is any validity in not messing with a system or trying to outguess your system or the market. I got into trouble by ....
- thinking that i could make a system more profitable by combining it with additional systems because the current system I was using was not winning fast enough for me then
- jumping from one system to the next before alowing the current system to prove itself and
- by taking profits off early (trading scared) and letting losses grow (trading bunny) because I thought that I knew better than the system I was using.

The profit targets that mouteki's or vegas' system project should be what keeps the sytems afloat in the long term.
The stop loss projections are what keeps the systems (and your account) from going down the toilet in the long term.
I am sure that if mouteki and vegas have done their homework on these systems that they will continue to make a profit into the future... on their own.

method integration is the same as system hopping.

NB: This is a slightly modified version (yes I get the irony) of a post I put in mouteki's thread because it seemed relevant to both threads.

nutmg12 Sep 23, 2006 9:46pm | Post# 14

Wow<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>

ffwuc,<o></o>

We should be at the bar having some beers. I think were on the same page but just at different times. <o></o>

<o></o>

The reason I started this thread was because I noticed following the 3 systems or methods I referenced I would be in the same trades. Only with slightly different entries, stops and targets. If you followed the 3 methods you would recognize the similarities. Youíre not the only one who has taken offense to my attempt to compare and contrast the different but ultimately comparable approaches. Please investigate and reply. Or meet me to arm wrestle....loll just joking. I do have guns though I would never issue that challenge to Jim after seeing his pic.<o></o>

masterpiecefx Sep 23, 2006 10:05pm | Post# 15

Why is it necessary to add anything else to a profitable system or integrate it with another system?
If the system works, it should not need additional filters, or the integration with another system, or whatever, to be profitable.
The reason why i recommended also looking at tlatomi is because it also is used on 4hr TF and also most of the trades coincide with the Mouteki setups.
I do agree with you that jumping from system to system will not make you profitable but some of the systems can be used as another tool to the method being used already (if you have one).
I believe that such things as TL's, fib numbers, price formations should be used universally to everything that is publicly traded with big volumes. And then you implement some indicators (CCI, RSI, MACD, you name it) to help you see the picture. Using another system that works (and suits your style of trading) is just like one of these indicators. Of course using 10 systems at once will only confuse you, but using one as confirmation of your own (and Mouteki has become the system many use here) system is not a bad idea imho, as long as the systems are of similar style. I hope I made myself clear.

nutmg12 Sep 23, 2006 10:05pm | Post# 16

Here's a pic of the current Daily Chart IBFX. Daily Trend up closed with a PIN Bar. I learned about this from Jim both in the PF and the James 16 chart thread. Of course more detailed on the PF. I highly recommend the PF. Either way I expect price to go down. I will be setting Sell orders under the "Pin" bar.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>

<o></o>

I will also be using this info to look for opportunities to enter short on the 4 hour, one hour and 5 minute chart over the next 24 hours. I know many of you will be doing the same. <o></o>


http://www.gifworks.com/queue/9-23_16174.gif

nutmg12 Sep 23, 2006 10:17pm | Post# 17

Still having trouble with posting charts and getting the whole picture in. In any case. See Knife indicator. Already posted in the public forum. Behind both Price Action and Trend line for a NL+/- 30 entry but obviously short will be next. Now the market could to Long but that's what responsible stops are for. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>

I opened this thread for discussion not ridicule.<o></o>




http://www.gifworks.com/queue/9-23_18401.gif

ffwuc Sep 23, 2006 10:37pm | Post# 18

Sorry to piss on your thread
 
I am not a violent person, don't believe in firearms either.
Prefer "healthy debate" for learning and to resolve conflict.
I respect and encourage all veiwpoints, even the ones that I think are grossly innappropriate or I disagree with.
That is the right to free speech.
Which so many people on this planet are still deprived of.
I am not American btw, but I hear alot about the 1st Amendment.
It's no coincidence that it is number 1. To me that is the most important element of a free society. We need to respect and integrate ALL points of view. Otherwise you have tyranny.
Words are NOT actions either. What I say and what I do are not the same thing. People should only be punished for their ACTIONS not their WORDS. That is the basis of free speech.
A word never hurt anybody.. except maybe a tyrant.

Anyway back to topic.
Yes, sorry to piss on your thread. Believe me there is plenty of piss on mine, but... see above why i take it.
I will respond to both your posts here as it is easier.

Yes we are very similar.. give me any book or method and I will absorb it ASAP and try to integrate it into a trading stragety. And I am acutely aware of when the market is open and will be woken up in the night.... weirdly just before an important move happens.
But as I said in my thread too much information too fast will cause confusion.

I totally agree with your thinking behind setting up this thread.
I have been watching a combination of Tlatomi, Vegas 1h, 4h and Daily, and mouteki and have seen examples of where one system will predict the setup of the next and give you an early entry and exit ..... but I am also seeing examples of where the early entries and exits are false.

This is what I talk about when I say (pipscooper really, he put this seed in my head and I like it), why use more than one profitable system.

The fact that they all give signals at similar times and pay good pips should tell you that each one is independantly picking up good entries and exits. This says to me that each one will work on its own.
That is the rational behind me asking the question I am around the forum at the moment.
I am seeing alot of people (myself included) getting sucked in by the latest and greatest method, (so hard to resist that sweet, sweet candy....) and I want to put a spanner in the works so we might look before we leap.

No I did not take your mouteki thread post personally and I don't expect you to take this one personally.
Your posts are as valid as mine and there are aspects of yours that I agree with totally..... but when you are presenting an argument you need to push your side.

Trading is like a conversation or a debate. I say something (bid) you say something that is opposite (offer) we argue for a while (consolidation) then one of us gets a definitive advantage over the other or we just agree (breakout) before the other one catches up or we start to disagree again (consolidation).





Wow<o></o>

ffwuc,<o></o>

We should be at the bar having some beers. I think were on the same page but just at different times. <o></o>

<o></o>

The reason I started this thread was because I noticed following the 3 systems or methods I referenced I would be in the same trades. Only with slightly different entries, stops and targets. If you followed the 3 methods you would recognize the similarities. Youíre not the only one who has taken offense to my attempt to compare and contrast the different but ultimately comparable approaches. Please investigate and reply. Or meet me to arm wrestle....loll just joking. I do have guns though I would never issue that challenge to Jim after seeing his pic.<o></o>

nutmg12 Sep 23, 2006 11:38pm | Post# 19

Wow,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>

Great Reply but please don't preach to me about our constitution. I am American and many of my friends and family have served and died fighting in conflicts and wars abroad. Have you noticed what the majority of the currency's are based on? Why do you think that is? I don't choose to bring up politics in this forum as itís about trading.<o></o>

I am glad you agree with our first amendment however itís only the first.<o></o>

<o></o>

<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><st1lace>U.S.</st1lace></st1:country-region> Constitution: Second Amendment<o></o>

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a <st1:State><st1lace>Free State</st1lace></st1:State>, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. <o></o>

<o></o>

I do have quite a collection of guns. However in the context I was referring too "guns", I was talking about my biceps. LOL means laughing out Loud...I was talking about Arm Wrestling you. Another joke I would be up for a thumb wrestle if that's more your speed. <o></o>

Debate is what the British tried before Hitler took over <st1lace>Europe</st1lace>. We all know what it took to get the Germans out. My Grandfather lost his leg in that fight. Debate can never defeat Tyranny.<o></o>

By the way what I say and what I do is the same thing. Those are the values I was raised with. I agree people should not be punished for their words however people who do not do what they say should be ignored. Again that's how I was raised. <o></o>

It has nothing to do with being American. I don't really know why you brought up my Country. Of course again that's not what this forum is about and after this post I choose to forget it ever happened. If we happen to meet lets just have a drink and keep the conversation to Forex. Again my Grandfather lost his leg at <st1lace><st1laceName>Omaha</st1laceName> <st1laceType>Beach</st1laceType></st1lace>. I don't know where youíre from or what your experiences are but I have now shared some of mine.<o></o>

<o></o>

I didnít take your comments as Pissing on anything. I only responded the way I did because I didnít think you understood the whole picture. Again I apologize if I underestimated your position. All of these systems have their merit and can be traded independently. I have. However if you practice all of them like I have you will see the similarities, see the overlaps and see the opportunities to improve your overall trading strategy.<o></o>

<o></o>

Now if youíre happy following someone elseís strategy or think you can read a PDF and make your way. (I've tried) Have at it. If you want someone else to show you how to do everything you may as well have someone wipe your ass and feed you as well. Another part of free speech is free thought. Itís how we evolve.<o></o>

Please don't insult my country or my patriotism. As you can tell I'm mad. Itís popular these days to underestimate the average Americans support for both our constitution and our current government. No matter whom the current president is.<o></o>

<o></o>

Sorry for the tirade but itís a touch subject with me. <o></o>

<o></o>

I look forward to learning from your views on the market. Please lets put this behind us. I will not reply to any thing but honest idea exchange of Forex trading Strategy, after all that's what were here for. I agree discipline is a key ingredient necessary to be successful. I think that's the point your trying to make. I'm sure we agree on much more than it seems.

Joe
<o></o>

Neilg36 Sep 24, 2006 6:09am | Post# 20

Thanks Neil,
How are you using it?

Hi Joe,

Simply as Vegas advocates in his 4Hr tunnel document. I wait until the 8 SMA is pointing in the desired direction before opening a position.

By doing this, as you are probably aware, Vegas is attempting to follow the 'momentum' of the market.

As a side note, we still do not know if Mouteki still has something to add to his system or it is complete. So, until we know that we have the full story I don't see a reason not to try to 'tweak'.

Neil.


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