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-   -   Simple advice but it can turn around your trading (https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=791771)

AlastorFate Jul 22, 2018 12:32pm | Post# 41

I can't believe trading with no SL can ever be a good idea.
Every trader should trade what he and she believes in. With stop loss (big or small) or no stop loss...

The point here is to be open to possibilities. Seek to understand the merits (and disadvantages) of not using stop loss, rather than condemning it because you can't accept new ideas that contradict your beliefs.

Humans will never progress as a race if humans chose to stick to the old and comfortable ways, and resist new ideas, change and improvement.

If you want to become a great trader, create your way of trading, without restricting your growth with popular trading beliefs, myths and dogmas.

Be open to possibilities.

Seek to understand first, before thy judge.

JmFinancials Jul 22, 2018 2:03pm | Post# 42

Trading without stops means you know what you are doing.

JmFinancials Jul 22, 2018 2:06pm | Post# 43

Good points

Inserted Video


If you have 10k account and you are trading 0.1 lot without stops.

What are the chances that you will lose your account?

AlastorFate Jul 22, 2018 2:54pm | Post# 44

What other trading methods/styles/beliefs do you adopt, besides not using stop loss?

cat Jul 22, 2018 3:29pm | Post# 45

The problem, and it is a big problem, with this thread and the advice which it contains, is that the only people to whom it concerns are those that are losing money in the markets - consistently profitable traders, whether they use a SL or not, are beyond this sort of advice. The implication therefore is that if you are a losing trader, then all you need to do is get rid of your stop loss, and you will be successful in no time, which could theoretically be true, but only theoretically, because the poster assumes that our psychology will be exactly the same entering a trade without a SL as it would with a managed SL which will take us safely out of the trade at a risk level we can easily afford.

Therefore, for me, the recommendation in this thread is absurd and nonsensical. Sure, it may well work for the odd person whose strategy is sound and built from many years interacting with and observing price action in the market/s of their choice. For the majority of losing traders out there however, not using a managed stop loss will be the fastest way they can possibly find to wiping out their account.

cat Jul 22, 2018 3:32pm | Post# 46

Trading without stops means you know what you are doing.
But if you know what you are doing, you do not need this advice. Your thread is therefore aimed at losing traders who will undoubtedly become even bigger losers were they to follow your advice.

fx75 Jul 22, 2018 3:59pm | Post# 47

you must cut your loss
or market cuts you out!

JmFinancials Jul 22, 2018 10:01pm | Post# 48

What other trading methods/styles/beliefs do you adopt, besides not using stop loss?
Every thing else comes with experience. Take good entries so that tp is hit asap.

JmFinancials Jul 22, 2018 10:03pm | Post# 49

{quote} But if you know what you are doing, you do not need this advice. Your thread is therefore aimed at losing traders who will undoubtedly become even bigger losers were they to follow your advice.
Read whole thread then waste your breath to reply. And yes this thread is aimed to those who are still losing and want to turn their trading into profitability. Title says same thing.

AlastorFate Jul 22, 2018 10:15pm | Post# 50

The implication therefore is that if you are a losing trader, then all you need to do is get rid of your stop loss, and you will be successful in no time, which could theoretically be true, but only theoretically, because the poster assumes that our psychology will be exactly the same entering a trade without a SL as it would with a managed SL which will take us safely out of the trade at a risk level we can easily afford.
The following are recommended trading habits, if a trader is using no stop loss, or using BIG stop loss.

1. Small position size. As small as need to be, to keep trading decisions as emotionless as possible.

2. Know when and where to get out if the market goes against the trader. And exit trade during live trading if it happens. This requires discipline.
If a trader does this right, he (sometimes) will take way smaller loss compared to using a predetermined static stop loss. -> Potential better R:R

3. Do not hold on to losing positions, like 'forever'.

If a trader can't do the above, better to trade micro account(and expect it to blow up), demo trade or don't trade.

Sure, it may well work for the odd person whose strategy is sound and built from many years interacting with and observing price action in the market/s of their choice.
Your statement (underlined). This is a must for every potential successful trader.

For your info, I do use stop loss. Just not tight stop loss.

Not using stop loss is fine,
using stop loss is also fine.
It's totally up to the trader himself, and how it works with his trading methodology.

Lunartrader9 Jul 22, 2018 10:33pm | Post# 51

{quote} Can you trade futures from mt4? Which broker do you use? I have never traded futures before. Does it also have leverage like spot fx?
I don't believe you can trade futures with MT4. I use Tradestation. Unlike Forex, there is no spread. You have a commission. To get in and out of a postion costs like $6. That's it.

Now, the leverage is not as good. I trade Oil, Natural Gas, Gold (for one contract, $10 a tick) and Euro, Yen, and Pound ($6.25 a tick for one contract). You are trading on Margin so you need a certain amount in your account to trade. Currencies are pretty cheap, usually less than $1000 to trade 1 contact to day trade. You need $5000 to open an account with Tradestation.

Also, you can pretty much get into the market where you want with very little slippage. I usually get in at the price I want or 1 tick away.

JmFinancials Jul 22, 2018 11:34pm | Post# 52

{quote} I don't believe you can trade futures with MT4. I use Tradestation. Unlike Forex, there is no spread. You have a commission. To get in and out of a postion costs like $6. That's it. Now, the leverage is not as good. I trade Oil, Natural Gas, Gold (for one contract, $10 a tick) and Euro, Yen, and Pound ($6.25 a tick for one contract). You are trading on Margin so you need a certain amount in your account to trade. Currencies are pretty cheap, usually less than $1000 to trade 1 contact to day trade. You need $5000 to open an account with Tradestation....
Thank you for info

IenDzi Jul 23, 2018 5:06am | Post# 53

If you have 10k account and you are trading 0.1 lot without stops. What are the chances that you will lose your account?
In the long run the chances to lose account not using SL's will be the same as using SL's. If you don't have an edge and you are using SL, then your AccEquity goes down. And if you are not using SL, then your AccEquity goes up till margin call. I am talking from my experience, I've done both.
The best results I had, when I didn't use SL, I've done 1000 to 4000 in 1.5 month. But it was very stressfull, because I knew my stats, and after that I told myself I'll never do that kind of trading again.
So, if you don't have an edge, I think it's a very good idea do not use SL, maybe you'll be lucky long enough. Or If you think you are not lucky, dont trade at all

bluesteele Jul 23, 2018 2:37pm | Post# 54

{quote} prove me wrong if you ever traded a live account, and yes in 10 years I have started many times and took millions of live trades so far.

10 yrs millions of trades
That's approx 100,000 trades a year
260 trading days or so a year.. that's almost 400 trades a day...for 1 million trades in 10 years.

Your a machine

JmFinancials Jul 23, 2018 4:49pm | Post# 55

{quote} 10 yrs millions of trades That's approx 100,000 trades a year 260 trading days or so a year.. that's almost 400 trades a day...for 1 million trades in 10 years. Your a machine
Yeah thats correct smart pants. I DO TRADE WITH EAS

Rennaissance Jul 23, 2018 6:22pm | Post# 56

Those looking for free money must eventually pay for it. Trading is a painful job and if it isnt, there is something wrong.

bluesteele Jul 23, 2018 6:26pm | Post# 57

{quote} Yeah thats correct smart pants. I DO TRADE WITH EAS
Obviously that's worked well for you


josephcom Jul 23, 2018 10:06pm | Post# 58

this is my finding on manual trading after 10 years of being associated with markets. Manual trading with SL is almost impossible, you must be genius if you are using SL and yet you are profitable for long run. try and remove SL and you will be profitable in no time.
Honestly, although I'm not experienced as much as you are, but I'm gradually coming to the conclusion you mentioned. But, the problem is, I can't think of a clear strategy to exit my positions. Can you share with us, how/when you know you've been wrong and exit the trade? I don't ask about your entry strategies cause it's not related to this topic.

JmFinancials Jul 23, 2018 11:03pm | Post# 59

Exit out on next really strong s/r level if you are confirmed to be uncertain. Depending on your account size and lot you trading.

JmFinancials Jul 23, 2018 11:48pm | Post# 60

The problem, and it is a big problem, with this thread and the advice which it contains, is that the only people to whom it concerns are those that are losing money in the markets - consistently profitable traders, whether they use a SL or not, are beyond this sort of advice. The implication therefore is that if you are a losing trader, then all you need to do is get rid of your stop loss, and you will be successful in no time, which could theoretically be true, but only theoretically, because the poster assumes that our psychology will be exactly...
Your point is valid but you will be surprise to know how many experienced traders are still losing. So in that scenario this advice can even help them. Some times small things brings lots of positive changes. Some times people do know how to enter but placing stops becomes a real headache.


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