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-   -   How to flow with the order flow? (https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=762415)

Luciferz May 8, 2018 1:06pm | Post# 1

How to flow with the order flow?
 
So I'm starting this thread because I think it will be a lot to talk and discuss here. I believe to be profitable on your trades you don't need any type of treand or S&R or something like that... To be profitable you need to trade a long the order flow... I know it sounds crazy but I believe if you know where the order flow is you can be very successful. Unfortunately I don't know where to start... I hope to get some interaction to debate this...

Catch-22 May 8, 2018 1:27pm | Post# 2

S&R and candle-size and speed is basically order flow when you can't see orders.

The best place to see order flows in literal sense are in crypto-exchanges nowadays - places like Binance where you can see 24 hour volume and the orders as they are taken, plus the depth of the market. Forex brokers order flow is usually counter to what you should be trading anyway, so there's hardly much point in look into following losing trades unless you are hedging them (but you can see somethings like this in Oandas order book, and places like myfxbook and here on ForexFactory).

The trend is very subjective, depending on what time you are trading on and what strategy you use. Some people will tell you that only the day matters, whereas I prefer to be with the longer-term movement to reduce some issues.

Luciferz May 8, 2018 1:54pm | Post# 3

S&R and candle-size and speed is basically order flow when you can't see orders.

Well I don't agree with you in that statement...If you trade S&R you are playing a game of probabilities...You never know if that price (bearish) is going to resist the level and reverse or spike sometimes in the level to confuse retail traders or even go above the level and then come back...
whereas I prefer to be with the longer-term movement to reduce some issues.
I understand what you mean... longer term trading gives you time to think about your trade...but if you don't trade in the direction of the order flow that "issues" that you mentioned will come back and you will lose the trade and you will think I must have analysed something wrong and then you think you found the problem because it makes sense on your head and you try again...You might get the trade correct next time trading without you knowing that you were following the order flow and again when you apply again your strategy it might go wrong again and you think I must analysed something wrong and again you change something to make sense on your head and it becames a cycle...I don't know if I'm making myself understandable.

Martingale May 8, 2018 2:28pm | Post# 4

Hi Luciferz, I trade for a living with the OrderFlow. I love people don't know OrderFlow because this is how we take money from the 95% of the traders please keep it as a secret

COGSx86 May 8, 2018 4:40pm | Post# 5

Hi Luciferz, I trade for a living with the OrderFlow. I love people don't know OrderFlow because this is how we take money from the 95% of the traders please keep it as a secret

Would love to hear where you get your order flow, in the forex market?

lolpie May 8, 2018 6:06pm | Post# 6

{quote} Would love to hear where you get your order flow, in the forex market?
There are a bunch of order flow tools you can use. Take a look at Jigsaw, or Bookmap.

The tricky part however, is looking at the futures data for the currency pair you are interested in, doing your order flow analysis there, then executing the trade on your forex account - if you really, really, only want to trade spot forex.

MLeslie May 8, 2018 6:18pm | Post# 7

Why do people continually look for the easy way out?

There is no easy way out. There's no magical ea you can't forget everything but one way.

If you use orderflow without ANALYSING the macro status of your market ie fundamentals, sentiment, charts (trends, and yes SRs) or understand Market value then you'll lose it all.

Orderflow will give you many false readings it's not as simple as buyers v sellers. Ffs if it was we'd all be millionaires. Orderflow helps with entry a little bit that's all it does. It ain't your bias and I'd be very careful. Determining absorption, exhaustion, demand/supply, spoofs, withdrawals WITHOUT proper experience or understanding your markets value will ruin you.

MLeslie May 8, 2018 6:21pm | Post# 8

Good video on Order Flow, worth watching. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlAz8JfNoAk
This guy here is typical ofwhy reailforex is a scam
Here is someone who has no clue. Who has gone on to sell many books and education formats.

There should be laws against this. Some.bloke from his bedroom regurgitating the retail crap he learnt (stochastic, ENGULFING bars, macds gann ETC the list is endless)

Please do not follow people on YouTube. Especially this bloke.

COGSx86 May 8, 2018 8:05pm | Post# 9

{quote} There are a bunch of order flow tools you can use. Take a look at Jigsaw, or Bookmap. The tricky part however, is looking at the futures data for the currency pair you are interested in, doing your order flow analysis there, then executing the trade on your forex account - if you really, really, only want to trade spot forex.

Wow, I can honestly say I have never came across these platforms before, wowza thank you! Awesome stuff.

COGSx86 May 8, 2018 8:23pm | Post# 10

{quote} There are a bunch of order flow tools you can use. Take a look at Jigsaw, or Bookmap. The tricky part however, is looking at the futures data for the currency pair you are interested in, doing your order flow analysis there, then executing the trade on your forex account - if you really, really, only want to trade spot forex.

Is futures forex offered on these?

DonPato May 8, 2018 10:30pm | Post# 11

So I'm starting this thread because I think it will be a lot to talk and discuss here. I believe to be profitable on your trades you don't need any type of treand or S&R or something like that... To be profitable you need to trade a long the order flow... I know it sounds crazy but I believe if you know where the order flow is you can be very successful. Unfortunately I don't know where to start... I hope to get some interaction to debate this...
Do you have anything specific you wish to share about order flow trading... perhaps you might share how you read the order flow in your trading?

Catch-22 May 9, 2018 7:26am | Post# 12

{quote} Well I don't agree with you in that statement...If you trade S&R you are playing a game of probabilities...You never know if that price (bearish) is going to resist the level and reverse or spike sometimes in the level to confuse retail traders or even go above the level and then come back... {quote} I understand what you mean... longer term trading gives you time to think about your trade...but if you don't trade in the direction of the order flow that "issues" that you mentioned will come back and you will lose the trade and you will think...

To put it simply: The chart is the history of the order book. Support and resistance define where large groups of orders have been placed in previous times. This will define how the order flows.

Big volumes generally mean big candles, reversals mean big orders and price flow change. Candlestick analysis is price flow analysis in the only way that matters in normal broker forex trading.

The "order flow" that most people are looking at work off indicators that are broker specific and have no impact on the market and furthermore most of the order flow is based on idiot traders jumping in on market manipulation and wouldn't help you anyway.

Only futures contracts and real exchanges have any real type of order book you can really look at without market maker software.


P.S. If you don't want to play by probabilities then you shouldn't be trading, EVERYTHING in trading is a probability except that the price will move up or down.

Unless you can grasp these facts you will find it harder to make any progress.

Darastonius May 9, 2018 8:35am | Post# 13

Well, you kinda have a clue about the order flow on the chart, because big orders move the price big time, while small orders make the price grind forward slowly. Knowing how to read this in context, and also understanding the laws of supply and demand, combining with the logic how big players trade can definitely improve your trading.

I can't imagine how knowing order flow only would help you any more, than what is already available. Knowing the order book as well might be much more helpful, but still even the order book can't foretell when smart money will suddenly decide to buy 50 000 lots of euro at market price for example.

Regarding reading out order flow from the chart, I highly recommend watching for price action at the price levels where big candles are to the immediate left. Somebody moved money at that price not long ago, and he has vested interest in not to get REKT.

Catch-22 May 9, 2018 9:11am | Post# 14

I forgot to mention that even if you could see the broker trades as they come in through MT4 manager, or whatever system they are using, you won't see the dealing desk hedging trades which will basically counter that order flow in 99% of cases and you won't know where the hedging is taking place.

In most brokers the net impact of your/other traders trades is 0 due to the automatic hedging of trades taken.

CindyXXXX May 9, 2018 9:33am | Post# 15

That night we finally reached our destination, we made it to the top of the Mountain, the one that towers over the valley. How many days had we trekked along the plain, staring at the peak of the Hill in the distance, each day just a day closer, so slowly it became bigger to our view.

"Look down there", he said to me; "can you see the city?"
"No, all I can see is a bunch of lights"
"but can you the city, we have walked so far, and here we are, you see the city right?"
"No, all i can see is lights"
"Welcome," he said with a smile, I had never seen him smile before. "Tomorrow I will show you the city"


Inserted Video

Luciferz May 9, 2018 2:08pm | Post# 16

{quote} Would love to hear where you get your order flow, in the forex market?
yes...tell me one thing...Why do you think 95 out of 100 traders lose and just 5 win? Do you believe that successful traders the "5%" take trades just on high probabilities trades??! This is a serious business... just think for a little bit...

Luciferz May 9, 2018 2:18pm | Post# 17

{quote} There are a bunch of order flow tools you can use. Take a look at Jigsaw, or Bookmap. The tricky part however, is looking at the futures data for the currency pair you are interested in, doing your order flow analysis there, then executing the trade on your forex account - if you really, really, only want to trade spot forex.
You need to be able to see order flow on real time... for that you need to learn how bull price works vs bear price. It makes behaviours which repeat all the time...you need to be able to take on your advantage...

Luciferz May 9, 2018 2:24pm | Post# 18

Why do people continually look for the easy way out? There is no easy way out. There's no magical ea you can't forget everything but one way. If you use orderflow without ANALYSING the macro status of your market ie fundamentals, sentiment, charts (trends, and yes SRs) or understand Market value then you'll lose it all. Orderflow will give you many false readings it's not as simple as buyers v sellers. Ffs if it was we'd all be millionaires. Orderflow helps with entry a little bit that's all it does. It ain't your bias and I'd be very careful. Determining...
I'm not saying that don't do S&R or other methodology... I'm saying If you are able to "see" order flow...which is dominating which, your analyse become more accurate with almost no loss...But if you can't see the order flow... even drawing treand lines on price fibs etc won't help you unless you are in order with the order flow...

Luciferz May 9, 2018 2:26pm | Post# 19

Well, you kinda have a clue about the order flow on the chart, because big orders move the price big time, while small orders make the price grind forward slowly. Knowing how to read this in context, and also understanding the laws of supply and demand, combining with the logic how big players trade can definitely improve your trading.
Yes...that's what I'm trying to say...

Luciferz May 9, 2018 2:38pm | Post# 20

{quote} Do you have anything specific you wish to share about order flow trading... perhaps you might share how you read the order flow in your trading?
not yet... might you could guide us little, I saw you also had done a thread on order flow

DonPato May 9, 2018 3:11pm | Post# 21

not yet... might you could guide us little, I saw you also had done a thread on order flow
I find repeating myself boring as I'm sure everyone else does. You can find my views in these links:
https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=613543

https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=723604

https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=553445

https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=528126

Best of luck... I was hoping to learn not teach. Many here feel I am either "giving away some long held secret" or I am full of BS and not worth your time. I'll let you decide and you can contact me later if you still want to chat.

COGSx86 May 9, 2018 4:32pm | Post# 22

{quote} yes...tell me one thing...Why do you think 95 out of 100 traders lose and just 5 win? Do you believe that successful traders the "5%" take trades just on high probabilities trades??! This is a serious business... just think for a little bit...


IMO there are a number reasons traders fail.

1) Not enough practice, testing historical data in backtest mode
2) NO mental/emotioanl discipline
3) Not enough money
4) Lifes pressure of paying bills
5) Human psyche as I wanna make money today but you dont and cant accept that
6) Being able to adapt to what the current market is showing you



I could go deeper on each but its a long explanation, and you would be better using the time of testing historical data in backtest mode. MQL market has some good tools. Search - PipFinite Trading Simulator here https://www.mql5.com/en/market/mt4/utility

headfake May 10, 2018 3:28am | Post# 23

So I'm starting this thread because I think it will be a lot to talk and discuss here. I believe to be profitable on your trades you don't need any type of treand or S&R or something like that... To be profitable you need to trade a long the order flow... I know it sounds crazy but I believe if you know where the order flow is you can be very successful. Unfortunately I don't know where to start... I hope to get some interaction to debate this...
Unfortunately there's no real decent source for order flow out there (the reason must be pretty obvious)and the only real way of learning it is for you to get yourself a decent understand of price and volume which requires lots of work on your part of which you then have to build on with live market experience. Btw supp res is an integral part of order flow.

ramzam May 10, 2018 10:45pm | Post# 24

costly


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