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-   -   FTMO.com - Funding for serious traders (https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/707034-ftmocom-funding-for-serious-traders)

newegg Jul 11, 2020 11:46am | Post# 2281

{quote} that can t even be an assumption in my eyes, since a lot of traders have a very low win rate but high RR and still profitable, so untill u break 1 of the rules u can t be stating 1 is on a losing trend. as to what u said that hey separate the account and stuff like that, then that s just crazy in my opinion..are u trading at a prop or not?(meaning their money)..there are other ways a prop can hedge losses, and therefore keep a tight risk, not by not copying the trades from ur demo to the master..cos if that s the case what makes u think...
I'm not disagreeing with you in anyway, I was only also thinking aloud as to what that statement might imply. I haven't taught about what it might mean deeply and that's the only reasonable excuse I could come up with.

I don't disagree with you, your concerns are valid.

Ak386 Jul 11, 2020 11:52am | Post# 2282

1 Attachment(s)
If I have 7 missed demos it is because I am improving the strategy aggressively, by the time I enter the challenge and so I can make it more relaxed, not like some who are desperate to pass and showing horrible accounts in the challenge.
Many of the competitors are winners in their accounts with 10% or 15% drawdown, but to enter FTMO you have to lower the drawdown to 5%,

I want to clarify that the importance of demo accounts, not risking a challenge without being prepared, I'm not ready yet.

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Rmg Jul 11, 2020 12:30pm | Post# 2283

If you ever traded actually, even demo trades... Will show you results for 10% per month is doable or not.
Some are in denial, oh this is gambling.
Learn to trade first before making laughable statements.
For those who don't know what they are doing, this is definitely gambling.

Swing4Fence Jul 11, 2020 1:28pm | Post# 2284

If you are a struggling trader, watch this.
It entirely changed the way I think & approach markets. After 15 yrs, trading is fun & much easier.
However, still constantly learning...

Inserted Video

akamrp Jul 11, 2020 6:52pm | Post# 2285

If you ever traded actually, even demo trades... Will show you results for 10% per month is doable or not. Some are in denial, oh this is gambling. Learn to trade first before making laughable statements. For those who don't know what they are doing, this is definitely gambling.

Everything in life is pretty much a gamble lol

Masterrmind Jul 11, 2020 8:27pm | Post# 2286

{quote} Mastermind, some responses above to my post are laughable but I know you can confirm that 10% a month for the 90% of traders who take a Challenge is unachievable. I command people for trying but that is the reality.
For 90% of traders that attempt the challenge they will fail for sure.

We already know that about 8% make it through and to me this statistic sounds very reasonable.

There are traders out there that make multiple attempts before moving onto verification stage.

I would certainly like to see full statistics showing attempts at every stage by every trader from challenge to verification and finally onto funded account but this is highly unlikely to be given out.

Any trader can generate 10% gain per 30 days at some point in their career but as per challenge the real question is when will this occur.

Repaying multiple times would become quite costly.

But traders will continue to pay because they know others have shown a successful progression through to funded status even when they know that their own trading is not up to the task.

Masterrmind ..........

Masterrmind Jul 11, 2020 8:47pm | Post# 2287

{quote} When doing the verification and challenge you do not have to close your trade over the weekend. This could help the longer term trader hit the PT required. after that there is no need for a PT so traders should just make what they can, they do not need to hit 10% monthly although that would be nice. Also, as I only needed to hit the PT requirements, I actually closed some of my trades early when doing the challenge as it reached the PT and I didn't need to let them go on. Think I had 3/4 trades open at the time I hit my PT.
Yes at funded stage more relaxed due to removal of the profit target however, generating significantly higher profits would likely only come from higher leveraged positions over a shorter time period since the trader is forced to be flat over the weekends.

I'm not saying this is bad in fact it's good risk management but it's driving the trader to be more of a day trader rather than a longer term trader and this is more risky.

A trader does not have the option to build up a group of low risk entries over several weeks to months because as soon as end of trading week arrives the trader has to be flat.

In any case traders have to work within the trading objectives and rules of the firm in general or simply walk away.

Personally, I don't see it as a major problem but for other longer term traders I do especially if they don't have shorter term trading strategies at their disposal then they have to rethink their strategies.

Masterrmind ........

Masterrmind Jul 11, 2020 8:59pm | Post# 2288

{quote} Hedge funds are not trading with your money at 1:100 leverage. They also have even stricter risk management policies in place compared to retail prop firms like FTMO. If we are talking of dollar to dollar value, FTMO's $100k account with 1:100 leverage means the money at play is $10 million. Hence making $10,000 off it in a month is effectively 0.1%. Multiply that by 12 and you get a mere 1.2%
The dropping of the name hedge fund was not the main idea here rather it was to give a quick example of how professional traders might struggle so why wouldn't a retail trader.

Remember hedge funds report their gains so it's fairly simple to get the data.

As for your calculations please take a closer look at what you posted ... It's not correct.

Masterrmind.........

1odi Jul 12, 2020 4:43am | Post# 2289

Inserted Video

watch from min 58, it gets interesting, his account got "hacked" even tho he s the only 1 that has the "keys" to that computer. they(whoever they were) traded on his account 400 lots just to violate his max daily loss on a saturday and then "they" stopped. now how do u defend against that? and i do not mean how do u defend against beeing hacked lol..only him and ftmo have access to that account, ftmo said he was hacked..so he had to rebuild himself up from 5k loss cos luckily he s daily loss limit in account metrics wasn t violated..interesting story altho makes u think

braintheboss Jul 12, 2020 4:58am | Post# 2290

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiGjtdhE2uM watch from min 58, it gets interesting, his account got "hacked" even tho he s the only 1 that has the "keys" to that computer. they(whoever they were) traded on his account 400 lots just to violate his max daily loss on a saturday and then "they" stopped. now how do u defend against that? and i do not mean how do u defend against beeing hacked lol..only him and ftmo have access to that account, ftmo said he was hacked..so he had to rebuild himself up from 5k loss cos luckily he s daily loss...
Maybe he had some ransomware. Since you don't know what kind of use he had in his computer just is a possibility. I never listen a broker/firm stole your trading password

1odi Jul 12, 2020 5:07am | Post# 2291

{quote} Maybe he had some ransomware. Since you don't know what kind of use he had in his computer just is a possibility. I never listen a broker/firm stole your trading password
ransomeware means some1 hacks ur photos, personal files etc, and they ask u for money in exchange for that. if and when some1 hacks u, they are looking for ur bank account pass, credit cards and so on, they are interested in stealing ur money..not to trade in ur behalf lol just to kill ur max daily loss with 400 lots,..interestingly enough they opened the 400 lots trades and closed them right away, cos only thye swap fees were like 1.4k dollars lol..like i said, it s quite interesting. i m hoping he was hacked, cos the alternative just lays waste to this nice dream that is FTMO
u know what the saying is...if something is 2 good to be true..then it probably is. if any1 else got "hacked" pls post about it so maybe others can avoid stuff like that. maybe once u get funded, u change ur email and new pass and stuff like that, maybe ask ftmo for change of platform credentials again..never hurts to be sure.

braintheboss Jul 12, 2020 5:10am | Post# 2292

{quote} ransomeware means some1 hacks ur photos, personal files etc, and they ask u for money in exchange for that. if and when some1 hacks u, they are looking for ur bank account pass, credit cards and so on, they are interested in stealing ur money..not to trade in ur behalf lol just to kill ur max daily loss with 400 lots,..nterestingly enough they opened the 400 lots trades and closed them right away, cos only thye swap fees were like 1.4k dollars lol..like i said, it s quite interesting. i m oping he was hacked, cos the alternative just lays...
Not exactly. A simple keylogger fits in that description. What use hacker will do with your recollected information depends hacker goal. Sometimes that guys like have a fun.

Anyway is always important have secured your trading computer. If its possible have one only for trade without download anything outside trading platform

1odi Jul 12, 2020 5:16am | Post# 2293

{quote} Not exactly. A simple keylogger fits in that description. What use hacker will do with your recollected information depends hacker goal. Sometimes that guys like have a fun. Anyway is always important have secured your trading computer. If its possible have one only for trade without download anything outside trading platform
yes, but that s a wild guess, u can t really know what happened. hopefully that s an isolated incident.

braintheboss Jul 12, 2020 5:18am | Post# 2294

{quote} yes, but that s a wild guess, u can t really know what happened. hopefully that s an isolated incident.
For that i told is only a possibility since nobody knows what use have his computer

Masterrmind Jul 12, 2020 7:23am | Post# 2295

A good video.

Just another risk to be aware of but hopefully an isolated case.

Certainly would not want to hear of several traders reporting a "hacking" of their account.

I also enjoyed his discussion about the long journey he took to eventually gain a funded account after failing several challenges and a few verifications along the way.

Not too many report their journey in such detail.

Congratulations to him.

ps. good practise is to have messages from your trading platform set up so any trade activity is immediately sent to your smartphone or email.

Masterrmind.........

driven18 Jul 12, 2020 10:53am | Post# 2296

{quote} For 90% of traders that attempt the challenge they will fail for sure. We already know that about 8% make it through and to me this statistic sounds very reasonable. There are traders out there that make multiple attempts before moving onto verification stage. I would certainly like to see full statistics showing attempts at every stage by every trader from challenge to verification and finally onto funded account but this is highly unlikely to be given out. Any trader can generate 10% gain per 30 days at some point in their career but as...
I have nothing against FTMO business model except the rule to fulfill 10% profit in 30 days. 90% of you will lose your fees if you are a disciplined trader.

Here is what I suggest to "let me try FTMO challenge" traders.

Trade your demo account for 3 month - you do not need FTMO.

See if you can fulfill FTMO rules each month for these three months - you do not need FTMO.

If you can fulfill the rules each month, you have a good chance of passing a challenge in FTMO "real demo account".

Keep on trying and you will know if you can succeed or you will just throw your hard earned money into the fees for FTMO coffers.

If you succeed - you are ready.

Mtinifx Jul 12, 2020 12:49pm | Post# 2297

If you are a struggling trader, watch this. It entirely changed the way I think & approach markets. After 15 yrs, trading is fun & much easier. However, still constantly learning... https://youtu.be/FqboTPxtccg

That TE you put up - is that a 100k challenge account?

Swing4Fence Jul 12, 2020 1:01pm | Post# 2298

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiGjtdhE2uM watch from min 58, it gets interesting, his account got "hacked" even tho he s the only 1 that has the "keys" to that computer.
Interesting video indeed.
A few key points (Market is closed, lots of time to share thoughts)

- they only showed account matrix. An experienced trader with a point to prove (in this case hacking) would have screen shared their actual trading log.
*** my assumption: please take with a grain of salt as this is just my opinion. I’m concluding we would see potentially an Expert Advisor he left on over weekend (I’ve painfully done that before on accident) with auto trading turned “on.” The lot size was 400 likely due to an EA auto-calculating position size, and because BTC market over weekend can reach narrowing extremes, thus = massive lot size. The quick closure would probably be due to max risk $$$ far exceeded, and thus lead to an immediate closure.

- With FTMO I’ve already been in a few situations, where they could have gone in their favor. Each time they have been fair/honest and concluded in my favor (I’ll continue to post journey here, as profit split coming up on 26th). However, thus far A+ company in my opinion.

- If FTMO were indeed doing hack job 400 lot trades:

a) huge legal risk which I’m sure they are not willing to take

b) we would see it as a consistent theme across internet (Forex Peace Army etc) and you’ve seen this reputational risk sink other companies. Again, not a risk I’m sure FTMO wiling to take

Full belief everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Would really like for this YouTube trader to provided his actual full account log, however these can be manipulated too. So, would like to see a screen share, from initial platform log in, where he clicks directly on the trading log. Until that point, I’m skeptical. And can only going on the positive experience I’ve personally had with FTMO. For funded traders, let’s continue providing as much transparency on this thread. It will help everyone.
Us as traders, FTMO, future traders. Long term transparency is the ultimate solve. I.e. imagine if we had a trader actively positing here that has been trading 13+ yrs funded. That is the goal.

1odi Jul 12, 2020 1:35pm | Post# 2299

{quote} Interesting video indeed. A few key points (Market is closed, lots of time to share thoughts) - they only showed account matrix. An experienced trader with a point to prove (in this case hacking) would have screen shared their actual trading log. *** my assumption: please take with a grain of salt as this is just my opinion. Im concluding we would see potentially an Expert Advisor he left on over weekend (Ive painfully done that before on accident) with auto trading turned on. The lot size was 400 likely due to an EA auto-calculating...
altho i do agree with a few points that u ve just made, that particlar trader shared his failed attempts trying to get funded. so i doubt he d try and hide a 5k loss which he ultimately recovered. also he could ve said literaly anything else or not bring up that loss at all since he was in profit 8k. that s why i thought it was an interesting view. i m not saying ftmo did or didn t do..just saying that was curious to say the least. plus, i don t think he uses an EA, it s all manual trading. nontheless, my curiosity was connected to the fact that, in case something like this happens. u have no legal stand..no way to prove or disprove if they say u must have been hacked (atleast to my knowledge). ofc i don t think it would be smart of them to stoop that low since the majority of traders lose anyways, therefore making it a succesfull model.

Zuke Jul 12, 2020 2:42pm | Post# 2300

{quote} Interesting video indeed. A few key points (Market is closed, lots of time to share thoughts) - they only showed account matrix. An experienced trader with a point to prove (in this case hacking) would have screen shared their actual trading log. *** my assumption: please take with a grain of salt as this is just my opinion. Im concluding we would see potentially an Expert Advisor he left on over weekend (Ive painfully done that before on accident) with auto trading turned on. The lot size was 400 likely due to an EA auto-calculating...
Im inclined to agree with this, except that the loss didn't violate the Daily Loss which seems very odd to me. Thats why I wondered whether someone (i.e. in IT ) within FTMO was doing some testing or development and accidentally ran a script on the guys account.

Either way, like you say, the reputational risk to FTMO is significantly high, so Im not convinced that anything nefarious is going on


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