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-   -   Do you believe brokers hunt your stoploss (https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=660378)

Aussi Aug 13, 2019 3:50am | Post# 401

StopLoss is a type of order, and order gets filled, so I think what brokers see is just series of orders. Brokers won't care if that is TakeProfit or StopLoss, for them, they come as orders So trade safely, soundly, manage your expectations, practice mental SL levels if you must. But don't put it into the platform Just my 2cents
good thinking , do not let the bas<<ds get it

AnthonyWins Aug 13, 2019 4:56am | Post# 402

{quote} OMG, how did I missed this thread! What is this, a survey on how many dumb traders exist on the FF ? Voted.
I do not think that the topic of this thread is somehow related to the mental abilities of the participants.
I do not exclude the possibility that there were cases when a broker's fraud led to losses.
However, I saw an interesting point. And I suggest some of my thoughts.

There are 2 models of human behavior in a difficult situation, actually, after the problem has already happened.

The first one is acceptance of guilt and finding a solution through self-criticism. The second model is refusal to accept responsibility and shifting the blame to another object. Both mechanisms work, neither bad nor good. Each of them may be correct, depending on the situation. I propose to consider each of them detailed.

The first model. A person who uses self-criticism to find solutions, often taking the blame for others on himself. Such behavior often borders on feeling of inferiority.

The second model. A person who rejects a responsibility for mistakes and doesn't want to accept blame even when is guilty. Such people shift the blame to another object, thereby relieving themselves of the guilt that is destructive to their mind. This behavior is hard for people to perceive.

Tip for those who recognize themselves: every time you faced a problem, try using both models to analyze the situation. I'm sure you can find the solution.

Now let's imagine that after an error, a trader cannot accept the fault and uses the second model.
Who will be guilty?

Aussi Aug 13, 2019 5:07am | Post# 403

{quote} I do not think that the topic of this thread is somehow related to the mental abilities of the participants. I do not exclude the possibility that there were cases when a broker's fraud led to losses. However, I saw an interesting point. And I suggest some of my thoughts. There are 2 models of human behavior in a difficult situation, actually, after the problem has already happened. The first one is acceptance of guilt and finding a solution through self-criticism. The second model is refusal to accept...
man thats so good i never blame my self it was always the devil made me do it and that bloody keyboard made me press the button it kept looking at me

AnthonyWins Aug 13, 2019 5:25am | Post# 404

{quote} man thats so good i never blame my self it was always the devil made me do it and that bloody keyboard made me press the button it kept looking at me
That is good, yeah. Make your devil work for you

Aussi Aug 13, 2019 5:32am | Post# 405

{quote} That is good, yeah. Make your devil work for you
well there is a lot to know about the missie

TudorIoan Aug 13, 2019 7:06am | Post# 406

{quote} I do not think that the topic of this thread is somehow related to the mental abilities of the participants. I do not exclude the possibility that there were cases when a broker's fraud led to losses. However, I saw an interesting point. And I suggest some of my thoughts. There are 2 models of human behavior in a difficult situation, actually, after the problem has already happened. The first one is acceptance of guilt and finding a solution through self-criticism. The second model is refusal to accept...
Man, I have never looked for excuses to justify my failure in my whole life!
People must be very sick to blame conspiracy for their stupidity.

AnthonyWins Aug 13, 2019 7:29am | Post# 407

{quote} Man, I have never looked for excuses to justify my failure in my whole life! People must be very sick to blame conspiracy for their stupidity.
Thanks for the answer.

However, many people do this. This is the easiest and the most painless way.

Macdon Aug 13, 2019 9:19pm | Post# 408

{quote} now thats sense thank you for pointing it out
I think MQL4 and MT4 are designed to make you lose. I developed my automatic strategies in Java for the JForex platform but I found no decent tech support and not many indicators coded in Java out there. You had to code your own. cTrader resembles C# and more brokers and traders use and thus I found most indicators I was after. It also appears easier to code than Java, although I haven't coded in it yet. It reads easier, that’s for sure.


The stealth order option with the Swing trading when your auto-calculated stop loss and take profit are hidden from the broker sound like a fantastic option.
So far though, I’m not aware of any US brokers using cTrader, but surely that has to change.

TradeMinim Aug 13, 2019 10:58pm | Post# 409

{quote}I think MQL4 and MT4 are designed to make you lose. I developed my automatic strategies in Java for the JForex platform but I found no decent tech support and not many indicators coded in Java out there. You had to code your own. cTrader resembles C# and more brokers and traders use and thus I found most indicators I was after. It also appears easier to code than Java, although I haven't coded in it yet. It reads easier, that’s for sure. The stealth order option with the Swing trading when your auto-calculated stop loss and take profit are...
They are designed so feeds can be easily manipulated. This is why MT4 Broker licenses isn't available ANYWHERE now.
Worked in a brokerage previously so I understand the ins and outs of what they are actually doing.

cogs Aug 13, 2019 11:39pm | Post# 410

During the month of October 2018 average retail volume at IC Markets reached $568 billion. That is ONLY IC Markets and only one month!

Now, to not want to grab a piece of the pie and run some stops for even a measly 0.01% at $568,000,000, well you would have to be delusional!

http://fairreporters.net/economy/lar...olume-in-2015/

Too many broker shills here sprouting 'retail traders are too small' bla bla bla. I bet there isn't one forum member here (75% shills/25% retailers) that wouldn't knock back $568,000,000 topped up in their bank account each month.

Stops are often run, every time liquidity gets unbalanced multiple times a day. Wake up!

wobstix Aug 13, 2019 11:48pm | Post# 411

I feel, at this point that I can best add to this conversation by quoting an exert from a blog I subscribe to.
It is the blog from for-exe.com
"
I’ve had a few emails, in recent months, asking if the Advanced Trade Manager (ATM)hides stop losses and take profit levels from the broker. To save me time in replying with the same responses all the time, I am inspired to write a blog posts that I can refer anxious traders to.

The simple answer to the question is: NO.
My question is: why do you feel the need to hide stop and take-profit levels?

If you think your broker manipulates price to stop you out of trades, or prevent you from reaching your take-profit level, you seriously need to find a broker you can trust: one that is registered with a well-respected financial regulator, such as the FCA (in the UK) , CFTC or NFA (in the USA).

Reputable brokers make their profits on spread or commission charges; they shouldn’t be making money from your losing trades. If you think otherwise, then you seriously need to withdraw your money – if they’ll let you. A good broker will be happy that you’re a successful trader – the more you succeed, the more profit they will make through your continued trading. You’re no good to them if you lose all your trading funds. A dodgy broker will be happy to clear your trading account, hoping that you’ll continue funding through over-stretched credit cards – like the many binary-trade brokers (regulated by dodgy gambling bodies – which should tell you all you need to know) that are now, mostly and thankfully, in the dustbins of history.

What are ‘hidden stop losses’ anyway? They don’t really exist but an EA can initiate a buy/sell order, to close your trade at the equivalent of your stop-level. That’s risky … what happens if your platform/computer shuts down when you have an open trade? A non-hidden stop loss is an instruction that’s already with your broker; therefore, there is zero risk to your trading account from your computer failing you.

Some people say they can prove that their broker has manipulated price to stop them out. I ask for some chart examples, so I can compare the price bars with my own charts but, to-date, have never received such ‘proof’. It’s simple enough to check price bars from one broker against other brokers. If your broker appears to have spiked a price, where others haven’t, then you need to lodge a complaint with that broker. Repeated occurrences of price-spiking justifies a formal complaint to their regulatory body, if they have one; at the very least, you should change brokers in a hurry. Widening of spreads might also account for some inexplicable stop-outs, for which comparing price bars won’t help much. Again, if that’s something that happens too often, at your stop levels, then send your broker a snotagram and dump them.

For most traders who suspect their broker of trading against them, the chances are that they’re just not very smart with their choice of stop-levels. I’m confident enough with my broker that I can put my stop-loss (not hidden) a few pips below what I believe will be the start of Wave 1, for example. This is something that I do often and have never felt hard-done by if I get stopped – it wasn’t the start of Wave 1 after all (this is explained in the Trader Training Course).

ATM does offer one 'hidden' feature, in that you can instruct it to move your stop loss (t0 break-even or via trailing-candles/fractals) and take partial profits, at a predefined level. The broker won't see that instruction until they receive it when price reaches the level. This doesn't do away with an almost-obligatory requirement to have a stop loss sitting with the broker already, in the event of a catastrophe on your computer.

Be smart with your choice of brokers, you need to be able to trust them like you would your family doctor. Also, be smart with your stop-losses and give price room to breathe.
"

Mingary Aug 14, 2019 12:31am | Post# 412

Why go through that trouble and be the target of complaints and bad reviews from customers.?
There is no need to do it and no need to play games with client's market position.
Your average retail forex account becomes the broker's profit about 3 times over within 90 days while the average retail forex account gets reduced to nothing.
... then it's time to put more money in the account and start over.
Your friendly neighborhood retail forex broker says thank you.

Macdon Aug 14, 2019 1:22am | Post# 413

{quote} They are designed so feeds can be easily manipulated. This is why MT4 Broker licenses isn't available ANYWHERE now. Worked in a brokerage previously so I understand the ins and outs of what they are actually doing.
This is 1 major reason why I’m looking to open up an account with a cTrader platform – no broker’s plugin.

Exposing MT4 Scams - Brokers Plugin!
https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=554490
Please watch this youtube video and see that you will never be successful as long as you’re using MT4.

HudithePfupf Aug 14, 2019 10:12am | Post# 414

Yes - some (probably most) do manipulate price and hunt for stops.

Either directly or indirectly in more or less sophisticated ways, some of them on a regular basis and others in special situations only, where a fair broker would be essential to a retail traders financial health.

Is there a 100% trustworthy broker..... I don't think so! This is a very dirty business. If you still believe there is one, you will learn one day that his interests are not alligned with yours and he is in a far stronger position to make sure he will benefit in the long run in every single customer relationship. He has lots of legal and illegal ways to achieve this goal - the market overall is structured in a way to make sure retail traders that speculate will lose in the long run - so guess what, they do - all of them!

The less regulated brokers operate, the more directly and bluntly they cheat. Since the average customer relationship is about 3 - 6 months for retail forex (till they have blown their account), there is little incentive or reason to build up long term customer relationships. :-) This is not a "win - win" relationship. The money is better spent in affiliate marketing efforts to lure in new suckers 365 days a year, instead of prolonging the pain of customers to lose it all anyway. So why not taking this money in themself? This is especially true for accounts up to 10000 USD. If you start to screw customers above 100'000 USD or bigger sums, the legal risk rises. If you try simple tricks on institutional investors with big pockets, you will be in trouble sooner or later. But ripping off retail gambling addicts.... tsss.... no problem.

If you have a small account (the average retail account is about 2500 USD) they can hunt for your money with minimal risks. Who is willing and able to take legal actions for the loss of 2500 USD? A specialized attorney for financial crimes will cost you 250 USD / h upwards. You signed off trading terms all written to your disadvantage... so good luck with that. Maybe 5 out of 100 will try..... and they finally settle 1 or 2 of them who could pose a real risk....so overall it's totally worth doing it, so it is and will be done.

On a global scale, you will find literally everything imaginable. From outright fraud brokers (bucket shops), where not a single client takes money out (check out the binary option industry from Israel) to some bigger brokers that operate more or less fair most of the time. However, in special situations, at market extrems, every retail broker has a huge incentive to rig the game in their favor. These are anyway market events that typically end a lot of customer relationships. Since the market is not centralized, it's difficult to proof that the quotes, spreads, prive feed provided and the price levels exectuted are true market prices or marked up or down by your broker. They have a lot of possibilities to claim that it wasn't their fault. They can slow down or interrupt your internet connection, overload your CPU, delay or shut down their servers and let them go offline at the most inconvinient time, etc etc. Using dealer plugings a broker can theoretically deliver each customer an seperate price feed. In fast moving markets a delay of a few seconds can bring a broker a huge advantage, because he can decide wheter he wants to fill you order or not depending if his making a immediate profit or not. Last look principle......

Beyond that, they can also outsource manipulation and have a (secret) collaboration with the main liquidity provider, hedgefunds, HFT's, dark pools, banks, etc. etc.

If you research legal cases even in the better regulated markets like the US; EU, CH, Australia etc you will find countless examples how they screwed their customers. Even the biggest banks did it. Easy to find examples how dealers conspired and shared customer order data to manipulate the fix and prices in their favor, how liquidity providers conspired with brokers.... etc. etc.

Retail forex is a negative sum game for losers.

Sam32 Aug 14, 2019 8:53pm | Post# 415

I just feel price is more inclined to go to the sl than to tp

HeyYou Aug 16, 2019 3:17pm | Post# 416

only small & desperate/stupid brokers would do that

there are some.

Aussi Aug 16, 2019 9:36pm | Post# 417

I just feel price is more inclined to go to the sl than to tp
new member hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


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