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-   -   Order Flow - Achieving the mindset - Part 2 (https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=291104)

deanz Apr 21, 2011 6:20am | Post# 1

Order Flow - Achieving the mindset - Part 2
 
Anyone wanting to carry on posting from the previous thread may do so freely here.

previous thread:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=277925

Darkstar Apr 24, 2011 7:11pm | Post# 2

Hmmm... guess everythings been said?

______________________
My upcoming book, "Order Flow Trading for Fun and Profit" is now in editing!

relyt Apr 24, 2011 7:22pm | Post# 3

Hmmm... guess everythings been said?
Speaking for myself only, I just have so many thoughts going on right now and am trying to actually apply what I've learned so far.

Any questions that I do have can only be answered by experience, although your post here helped immensely.

Jimmy Jones Apr 24, 2011 8:53pm | Post# 4

Hmmm... guess everythings been said?

______________________
My upcoming book, "Order Flow Trading for Fun and Profit" is now in editing!
Some think so, but I'm sure those who know are not ever going to just come out and say everything.

Scotty B Apr 24, 2011 9:29pm | Post# 5

Once you have the broader framework down, you can really just put the rest of the pieces together as you go. You can choose to keep it simple or make it as complicated as you like.

Monroe Apr 24, 2011 9:46pm | Post# 6

Hmmm... guess everythings been said?

______________________
My upcoming book, "Order Flow Trading for Fun and Profit" is now in editing!
has it been?

I agree with what scotty b said, but... I'm sure your book will stir up some more...

edit: I have a question to you Darkstar, always wondered about this one, so just out of curiosity...

back in the day, why was it that you concentrated on just USD/JPY?

and also, around what time did you start putting together your orderflow method? seems around 2006? I remember finding a small piece of the 'ohh sweet liquidity...' thread and it seemed that was around the time you figured it out...

so I guess thats two questions...

lolpie Apr 24, 2011 11:10pm | Post# 7

Any rough estimates as to when the book will be published?

Thanks

vicky_ag Apr 25, 2011 12:00am | Post# 8

Not to sound too critical....

Personally, everything was said even before the previous thread was open. Everything was already contained in DS' posts..all the hints et al.

So, it was kind of hypocritical on the part of the previous thread owner to open the thread, go through his own learning process and then close it claiming "everything has already been said."

Thanks deanz for opening this thread..I was about to do the same.

Jimmy Jones Apr 25, 2011 11:35am | Post# 9

Not to sound too critical....

Personally, everything was said even before the previous thread was open. Everything was already contained in DS' posts..all the hints et al.

So, it was kind of hypocritical on the part of the previous thread owner to open the thread, go through his own learning process and then close it claiming "everything has already been said."

Thanks deanz for opening this thread..I was about to do the same.
He is just going through the process. I was not surprised when he closed the thread, it was almost obvious to me that he was going through a rough patch in regards to his trading / mindset.

I saw a great quote a few weeks ago that jumped out at me but I can't remember who said it or the exact quote. The idea of it was that wisdom allows you to see only if your standing from the same mountain that the wisdom giver is / was. Otherwise it's just more information.

So maybe everything has been said, but by no means is the discussion over! Lots of us still trying to get up that mountain before everything becomes clearer.

relyt Apr 25, 2011 12:01pm | Post# 10

Once you have the broader framework down, you can really just put the rest of the pieces together as you go. You can choose to keep it simple or make it as complicated as you like.
Great point, Scotty. I feel like I have the broad framework down, now I need to actually try to apply it in different ways.

I'm sure I'll have more questions to come, but I think I need to get my hands dirty to even understand what questions I still have.

All of you guys have been so helpful. Thank you very much. I know none of you owe any of us anything, but it is very much appreciated.

fluiDynamic Apr 25, 2011 12:05pm | Post# 11

I think this is an opportunity to post the Order flow literature that has been posted in FF through the years;


•Reading Order Flow
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=10852

•Order flow
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=18363

•Domino's Price and order flow trading
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=229290

•Order Flow - Achieving the mindset
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=277925

•Order Flow - Finding cluster of stops on chart
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=274208

•Understanding order flow in Forex
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=48862

•Order Flow Trading
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=284572

Carnegie Apr 25, 2011 1:34pm | Post# 12

I actually wrote a fucklong comment and my computer just turned it off so here I go again.

vicky or whatever: Hypocracy? Please.. I am coming out as the loser in all of this because when I had the thread I could post questions and darkstar (+others) would reply or even notify him that I had an PM to him but now I cannot even do that.
Ever wondered why the fuck I did this? Take some time and think about it please.

Even though I do know that sometimes you feel like you are one step away from discovering everything and someone just took it all away from you this is not a conspiracy or anything. I dont want this to turn out into J16 so when people come in from outta nowhere who havent even READ the thread and dont even know what we are discussing it kinda gets annoying. "are these stops"????

But hell, the thread isn't closed forever and for your information it is actually open to 10v+ and those on my buddylist so if you took the time (once again) to actually THINK about stuff maybe you could draw the conclusion to whom I wanted to post and not.

Once again I will say this, the thread isnt closed forever and if you guys want it then so be it, as said I am really not losing anything from it. The truth is that I really see it as everything is already there regarding THE MINDSET if you look thru all Darkstars posts and what is in the thread, so I kinda felt like I was doing other people a favor by keeping it there, but I guess I was wrong.

Jimmy, yeah man, going thru a hard time but not with the order flow stuff, it is more the psychology and I need to work that thru but I am currently abroad so I havent been posting and asking stuff.

To all of you and especially Darkstar and other frequent posters (Monroe, Euro, grk): I really do apologize, and I dont know shit compared to you guys, so IF you really think there is more, by all means I will open it up once again, as said, I am the loser in this.

PS. Cut the hypocracy and "when he was finished with his own mindset" stuff, that is really rude and I have never been that kind of person.
BTW Vicky, you should chill buddy. You were the one complaining on PMs that people were wrong and there wasnt any info in darks old posts. I think I saved those so dont even bother denying. Who are you call me a hypocrite?

I apologize to all and will be reopening the thread.
As always, take care to all of you!

Jimmy Jones Apr 25, 2011 2:46pm | Post# 13

Jimmy, yeah man, going thru a hard time but not with the order flow stuff, it is more the psychology and I need to work that thru but I am currently abroad so I havent been posting and asking stuff.
In my opinion the two are one in the same! Just work through it man, come to grips with the fact that it might take a little bit of time. We have all been there...

Carnegie Apr 25, 2011 2:55pm | Post# 14

In my opinion the two are one in the same! Just work through it man, come to grips with the fact that it might take a little bit of time. We have all been there...
I dont know really, it isnt in my. There is a slight difference I believe, its just that I havent done it enough to be certain and sure about it. But thats another discussion, as said I will walk thru all that when I am done with everything and as I get home.

Take care

Adal Apr 25, 2011 3:10pm | Post# 15

A general thought, not directed at anybody in particular.

Not everybody can be a successful trader, just like not everybody can be a successful painter, athlete, tv star or poker player.

Yes, I know, I'm stating the obvious, but too many times I've heard "you just have to find what works for you". Trading is a tough business, not everybody has the smarts for it, especially if they rely solely on the advice of others instead of working hard to find a unique edge.

When I was young I liked making music. Eventually I realized that at most I could be good sound engineer, but never a successful producer or even composer. So I gave up and sticked to programming.

I would gave up trading as well if I knew I didn't have an edge or the reasonable expectation of gaining one.

Monroe Apr 25, 2011 3:32pm | Post# 16

A general thought, not directed at anybody in particular.

Not everybody can be a successful trader, just like not everybody can be a successful painter, athlete, tv star or poker player.

Yes, I know, I'm stating the obvious, but too many times I've heard "you just have to find what works for you". Trading is a tough business, not everybody has the smarts for it, especially if they rely solely on the advice of others instead of working hard to find a unique edge.

When I was young I liked making music. Eventually I realized that at most...
I agree that not EVERYONE can be a successful trader, but at the same time I think you're comparing apples and oranges... and the ones that don't, simply give up like you did and reinforced the belief that they can't do it.

what is successful to you? I can think of a few very talented musicians/producers/composers which took them many many MANY years to become what most would consider "successful" but they were successful enough before that to get by doing what they loved. Some of them started with ZERO talent and admit it. Part of being successful in arts is being recognized by enough people, or being at the right place at the right time, knowing the the right people or having connections.... that's not the same in trading. Also, how many non-talented "artists" are successful... I can name plenty of those...

There is a point though where some just simply cannot, I'd have to agree, and I'd also have to agree that not everyone can be part of "the best" or "top traders of all time" but that doesn't mean they can't be successful... If you wanted it bad enough, I can't see how you can ever give up.

Carnegie Apr 25, 2011 3:37pm | Post# 17

Also, how many non-talented "artists" are successful... I can name plenty of those...
Justin Bibier?

Monroe Apr 25, 2011 3:38pm | Post# 18

Justin Bibier?
lol

grkfx Apr 25, 2011 8:47pm | Post# 19

A general thought, not directed at anybody in particular.

Not everybody can be a successful trader, just like not everybody can be a successful painter, athlete, tv star or poker player.

Yes, I know, I'm stating the obvious, but too many times I've heard "you just have to find what works for you". Trading is a tough business, not everybody has the smarts for it, especially if they rely solely on the advice of others instead of working hard to find a unique edge.

When I was young I liked making music. Eventually I realized that at most...
Well it is true that not everyone can be a successful trader. However, that line of thinking is extremely poisonous to the aspiring trader. The aspiring trader needs to be believe that it is possible to succeed in trading with every fiber of his/her being. Why? Because there will be the inevitable struggles, losses, and self doubt, and they need to be able to overcome those barriers to be able to get back in the game and play.

I can't tell you the amount of of times I thought I wasn't cut out to be a trader. Probably thousands of times I thought of that, mostly in my early 1-3 years. Sometimes it would happen 20 times in a day. There are so many times you get close to calling it quits. Maybe you think its not for you, maybe you think the game is stacked against you, maybe you think the markets are a big conspiracy, maybe you think you aren't smart enough, maybe you think you have some learning disability. The list of reasons are long and varied.

Truth is, many successful traders are usually first generation. Why? Because it takes a certain level of wanting it really bad to be able to get through the obstacles. You need to hunger for trading success and want it very bad to be able to have the staying power to succeed.

Most people aren't born with some special talent, nor are they placed in an environment growing up that sets them up to succeed in trading. Thus, they need to learn the proper mindset, psychology, develop the right habits, create the proper environment, etc.

The longer I am at this game, the more I realize that you don't really need much talent or smarts. I never had talent or smarts. I was actually quite an underachiever I must say. Now you absolutely need to develop some finely honed skills to succeed absolutely. But anyone can learn the skills, so long as they have the hunger for it, and want it really bad. I can assure you that if you spend 10,000 hours on trading spaced over 2-5 years, studying the right concepts, apply the knowledge you have acquired, and have a very high staying power and tolerance for short term pain, then you stand an extremely high chance at success. I would go so far as to say it is guaranteed, but everyone is different so I won't use that term.

You need repeated and preferably massive exposure to the important concepts, methodology, trade examples, inspirational examples, success stories spread over 2-5 years and that should do the trick. Part of the trick is to have a deep understanding of order flow, information flow, liquidity, market participant expectations, and what will compel them to move prices, and completely slaying your inner demons, fears, misconceptions, and wrong expectations of the market. But hey, I am a bit biased toward order flow

Now I would say that you need to end up liking part of what you do. You may not be able to initially decipher where it is for you or not. I didn't find out that I liked trading until well after 3 years into the journey. But eventually you end up enjoying a large chunk of it, say 30-70%. The rest is the crap you need to deal with that exists in every endeavor.

LasVahGoose Apr 25, 2011 9:47pm | Post# 20

I can't tell you the amount of of times I thought I wasn't cut out to be a trader. Probably thousands of times I thought of that, mostly in my early 1-3 years.
Wow, exactly where I am right now after 2.5 years... Despite that feeling, I still have that feeling like, I'm almost there, just a little more...

Thanks for sharing man, your post really resonated with me.


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