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-   -   Order Flow - Achieving the mindset (https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=277925)

Dane Apr 30, 2011 2:17am | Post# 1481

Hey,

I definitely like to keep the process simple. That said, it has taken me years to find what works for me which is important areas of supply and demand. Sounds simple and it is but it takes time to recognize them...

All the best

CindyXXXX Apr 30, 2011 2:59am | Post# 1482

4 Attachment(s)
Cindyxxxx I see you have graciously removed your comment from my earlier post. I do agree you need to ease up. I wasn't eluding to blindly follow the bid ask news call outs but to use them to you advantage with a flow mindset.
If you put the picture of the nights events together you can use them to your advantage.
0026 gmt weak stops at 1.4780/50. 0310 gmt offers 1.49 a likly place for some resistance if price gets there. 0528 gmt bids around 1.4820-30 ASB. 0559 weak stops below 1.4800. 7:23 gmt supernatural on top at 1.4850.

I will let you...
Apologies Louie et al. I guess having a ladies user name on the internet I get internet PMS or something. I didn't mean anything by it.

I have a gift for the die hard fans of this thread which will hopefully go some way to redeeming myself. I didn't want to post these at first at the risk of making exploitation easy for scammers, but I guess the only people that will bother reading them are the same ones that would end up reading them the hard way anyway, so at least this will save you some time. These took me ages so please enjoy (the OF thread one includes both threads)

Just on a side note the thing I noticed going through these posts was that these guys and perhaps DS in particular write so well that I rarely needed to include the quoted post he was replying to as any teacher at school will tell you that when answering a question, remember to word the answer to incorporate the question. Anyway I found this interesting, if it's any indication of the Books and manuals that will hopefully come, then it can only be a positive thing.
Gaston.doc
grkfx.doc
Darkstar.doc
Orderflow Thread.doc

scott89 Apr 30, 2011 4:49am | Post# 1483

Gaston posts. I agree.

There are not many posts from him, but I can assure to everybody that they are of great value.
Thank you Cindy for those 4 papers, really, you just gave away to anyone who can download your free time spent making them.

scott89 Apr 30, 2011 6:26am | Post# 1484

After reading gaston's posts one more time (thanks Cindy), I can confirm this thought I had about those people: in their posts they all talk about the same things and subjects, such as the uselessness of the debate TechAnalysis vs FoundamentalAnalysis, importance of a strong mind and psychology, importance of a "out of the box" thinking and keeping a open mind (like you make money with trend trading, don't dischard the rest just 'cause you make money only with trends) and another thing that i will quote from Gaston:

<<Look outside of indicators, outside of time frames, and -dare i say it- outside of charts...>>

Again, no indis (and we knew that), non-importance of the timeframe, and no charts.

This no-charts thing is always ringing a fucking bell in my mind, I mean, if they trade with no chart, they must have a very deep understanding of the market mechanics, and that means I have to study deeper into it.

gleem Apr 30, 2011 6:29am | Post# 1485

Thanks for that Cindy

Patience Apr 30, 2011 6:47am | Post# 1486

I guess having a ladies user name on the internet I get internet PMS or something.
Hey, and you think you guys don't get it? Don't be fooled. We know you do. They just haven't given it a name yet.

Louie Apr 30, 2011 8:19am | Post# 1487

[quote=CindyXXXX;4582420]Apologies Louie et al. I guess having a ladies user name on the internet I get internet PMS or something. I didn't mean anything by it.


Apology accepted. I was going to tease you and rename you the ninja blogger, head ninja from the convention on this thread some time ago. Maybe when I post I should expand a little but I really don't go into much depth since there are many ways to use the information given. I like to let the individual figure how they may want to use it. Many may find it useless and some may find it helpful so they may be on the right side of the market when trading. Its funny how two traders can take opposite sides of the market at the same time and still make money. Just one will have to cut the profits short or will be a loser. Really opens up the endless possibilities if your mind allows it. Truth be known it takes quite some time to detune youself as a new trader looking for that winning system on blogs such as this wanting to have that high win percentage only to find out that the edge is in yourself. Once you understand that you tend to spend less time in these blogs since they are big distractors to your success. You find that 95% of these only talk about the trade entries but that is just a small part of the trading game. This is when the real journey begins.
Cheers

CindyXXXX Apr 30, 2011 11:59am | Post# 1488

Hey, and you think you guys don't get it? Don't be fooled. We know you do. They just haven't given it a name yet.
I had a feeling you'd have something to say about that Patience


Apology accepted. I was going to tease you and rename you the ninja blogger, head ninja from the convention on this thread some time ago.s
haha thanks Louie, and NP

<<Look outside of indicators, outside of time frames, and -dare i say it- outside of charts...>>
Thanks Scott and Gleem, its funny all those guys seem to speak the same language but in different words which is a representation of what Louie was talking about.

civis May 1, 2011 3:19pm | Post# 1489

OK, so I have a question about something that has been puzzling me. I know I'm not part of this discussion but I'd be much obliged if someone could answer anyways. How do market movers trade? I recognize that price movement is about liquidity consumption, so do the traders at Deutsche sit down in the morning and ask the same questions we are trying to (excluding their commercial obligations)? Where will others trade and why? Does EVERYONE's order depend upon everyone else's?

medici May 1, 2011 4:02pm | Post# 1490

1 Attachment(s)
OK, so I have a question about something that has been puzzling me. I know I'm not part of this discussion but I'd be much obliged if someone could answer anyways. How do market movers trade? I recognize that price movement is about liquidity consumption, so do the traders at Deutsche sit down in the morning and ask the same questions we are trying to (excluding their commercial obligations)? Where will others trade and why? Does EVERYONE's order depend upon everyone else's?
If by market movers you mean dealers, then the brief answer is that they collect client orders, and then use the supply/demand information in the order book to execute the orders to maximum profit which will be a mixture of directional/speculative profit and commissions.

And a large part (1/3-1/4 perhaps) of the total turnover is trading between dealers. In that sense everyone's order depends on everyone else's.

Then there are of course other market movers such as hedge funds and central banks, who operate by different and varying principles which are impossible to summarise briefly.

More details can be found in the attached pdf.
FXMicrostructure-Survey_07-15-08.pdf

Nervousone May 1, 2011 6:38pm | Post# 1491

this is kind of off topic but it has to do with market mechanics.
The silver futures market is getting pounded right now since the open. All though its only traded like 10k in contracts it has moved price about 6 dollars which is huge. stop hunt in an illiquid time or what? wish i knew the orderflow answer to this one.

bronxterp May 1, 2011 6:59pm | Post# 1492

this is kind of off topic but it has to do with market mechanics.
The silver futures market is getting pounded right now since the open. All though its only traded like 10k in contracts it has moved price about 6 dollars which is huge. stop hunt in an illiquid time or what? wish i knew the orderflow answer to this one.
I believe its due to a few things. 1) It's a very illiquid market with most countries off tonight/tomorrow for bank holidays. Look at what Silver did a week ago on Easter Monday. 2) Also, as of close on Friday the margin requirements for Silver rose on COMEX...probably requiring a bit of selling...which probably explains why silver struggled to move up on Friday while gold soared. So i'd imagine those two factors change the liquidity environment for tonight

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...ince-1983.html

Jimmy Jones May 1, 2011 7:14pm | Post# 1493

Apologies Louie et al. I guess having a ladies user name on the internet I get internet PMS or something. I didn't mean anything by it.

I have a gift for the die hard fans of this thread which will hopefully go some way to redeeming myself. I didn't want to post these at first at the risk of making exploitation easy for scammers,...
Thanks dude!

civis May 1, 2011 10:03pm | Post# 1494

If by market movers you mean dealers, then the brief answer is that they collect client orders, and then use the supply/demand information in the order book to execute the orders to maximum profit which will be a mixture of directional/speculative profit and commissions.

And a large part (1/3-1/4 perhaps) of the total turnover is trading between dealers. In that sense everyone's order depends on everyone else's.

Then there are of course other market movers such as hedge funds and central banks, who operate by different and varying principles...
Thanks, thats what I thought

seagreen May 1, 2011 11:11pm | Post# 1495

Just sharing some thoughts, or simply typing it out to put my mind in order. Order flow trading is simply the easiest way to trade. And for me to realize this I had to go one more time and visit James16 thread.

I have had lots of insights of order flow trading but couldn't become consistent because was still in the stage of experimenting and thus couldn't make a strategy with strict rules to follow. So I went through James16 material hoping to create a strategy based on price action with my orderflow knowledge. And this was a total disaster in the sense that I came to conclusion that I had to either trade pure J16 price action method (I would call it blind trading) or go back to my order flow stuff. And yes it's possible to get to high winrate using price action but you have to be extremely picky and need to get a lot of experience before you get confidence in your ability to trade large size.

And so this price action experiment disaster got me to this very thought that order flow trading is simply the easiest way to trade. How to trade it was discussed here many times already and the funny thing is that I was already trading order flow but for some reason still had an idea that I needed to learn more.

I don't know if I can help those who're still struggling. But here's an idea about trading without charts. To do that you just need to know where the price was yesterday, what happened in the market between yesterday and now and where the price is today. And then make a guess about what may happen in the future. (and this is just an example).Then everything is up to the info you get.

Now the most important part of my post. THANKS TO DARKSTAR, GRKFX, SCOTTY B, GASTON, MONROE AND SKFX (who actually planted the virus of order flow trading in me) FOR YOUR INSIGHTS. Sorry if I didn't mention others but those mentioned are the people whose posts I found most helpful.

Denis

Edit: I actually went on now and closed those blind trades. To me there's no reason to hold them now - I won't learn anything whether I win or lose.

LasVahGoose May 1, 2011 11:23pm | Post# 1496

Just sharing some thoughts, or simply typing it out to put my mind in order. Order flow trading is simply the easiest way to trade. And for me to realize this I had to go one more time and visit James16 thread.

I have had lots of insights of order flow trading but couldn't become consistent because was still in the stage of experimenting and thus couldn't make a strategy with strict rules to follow. So I went through James16 material hoping to create a strategy based on price action with my orderflow knowledge. And this was a total disaster...

It's so easy that everyone is doing it! LMAO.
Glad you found something that works for you, wishing you many pips.

seagreen May 1, 2011 11:54pm | Post# 1497

It's so easy that everyone is doing it! LMAO.
Glad you found something that works for you, wishing you many pips.
Most people believe it is not easy and it is no surprise, this business is designed so. There's too much useless info that to find the real thing you really need to spend a lot of time. It's the easiest way to trade in a sense that you take free money when you see opportunity. Not easy to learn because we have false beliefs about trading, and the system is designed so. What are we offered? Charting and news - technical and fundamental analysis, or price action at best. Are many people interested in how and why price moves, who moves the price? Most are trying to predict future price by the footprint it left (chart) without caring why price did what it did.

Thanks for the wish - I'll surely have many and hope you do too, brother.

Darkstar May 2, 2011 12:27am | Post# 1498

And so this price action experiment disaster got me to this very thought that order flow trading is simply the easiest way to trade. How to trade it was discussed here many times already and the funny thing is that I was already trading order flow but for some reason still had an idea that I needed to learn more.
...
Now the most important part of my post. THANKS TO DARKSTAR, GRKFX, SCOTTY B, GASTON, MONROE AND SKFX (who actually planted the virus of order flow trading in me) FOR YOUR INSIGHTS. Sorry if I didn't mention others...
Ya know, I get compliments on my posts about every other day, but I have to tell you; nothing makes me feel as good as knowing that someone has taken the priciples of order flow trading and used them to achieve success. So thank YOU for validating the time and effort we have all put into helping those who follow the order flow path.

More importantly, congratulations on your success and may luck be with you in all your future endeavors.

sergiu May 2, 2011 12:33am | Post# 1499

Can anyone suggest where to get "The way of the dollar" book? I have looked high and low on amazon and could not find it.

Leonlorenzo May 2, 2011 12:37am | Post# 1500

Can anyone suggest where to get "The way of the dollar" book? I have looked high and low on amazon and could not find it.
I'll second this... nowhere to be found.


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