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-   -   Auction Market Theory and Market Profile (https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=277528)

bandung Mar 10, 2012 7:48pm | Post# 4581

Bandung,
In your doc you have used indicator ay.TPOChart.1.32, any plan to share it soon?
not yet skyscraper, as it still buggy..

bandung Mar 10, 2012 10:37pm | Post# 4582

perfect example of text book short covering rally. It met the three critera for SC (short covering)...... Daily profile.... had we been in an extended downtrend?, yes,..... did yesterdays profile open on its lows? yes asia opened on its lows,............did we have swift rapid move up? yes. And we have a presence of otf down. This with the confluence of of the rejection of the previous month vah made for a great high probability trade. It would kind of makes sense for people to cover their positions prior to a news release.........
Beautiful ... Claudia

ivonivon Mar 11, 2012 4:41am | Post# 4583

no lbst. MP has changed dramatically since 1970. Refer to outdated.
 
http://img2.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...a41b03f920.gif

bandung Mar 11, 2012 9:51am | Post# 4584

aah... Alexander Trading...

please shed some light here..

Bilstein Mar 11, 2012 11:41am | Post# 4585

Yeah, because learning something for free through collective collaboration of thought and experience is just unheard of in human history. Perhaps we should all dole out some trading capital to Alexander Trading Group to get some "real knowledge".


porquilhoo Mar 11, 2012 3:57pm | Post# 4586

a bit out of topic but since we talked about it
 
I also belive its a bit outdated Market Profile theory.. A lot of things have changed. For me the only and main purpose of it is too see how price is distributed. Anything else added could be racionalized in infinite ways.. Its just like classic technical analysis, you draw some lines and stuff if you want to belive that line is a support and it fails there are other infinite lines for you to draw and say "oh so its this one here that is the support" .. Same with the Bell curve shaped distrubution.
"Oh So its not this one bell curve it was filling. It was this other one.." there is always another one you can make sense out of..

but still im very newbie to this. And so far these are my conclusions. I do like to see where the price has been distributed, and the shape of it.. And take my notes too.

Bilstein Mar 11, 2012 4:39pm | Post# 4587

The fun thing about trading strategies involving retail traders is that you wind up with specific types of people.

The first type would be the people who use the strategy, take the time to read, gather knowledge and experience, and lose some money trying to make the strategy work for them. In the long run, they either stick with it or abandon it. But you cannot judge a strategy or trading system until you've risked some real capital on it.

The second type are the people who just never want to be wrong. They search relentlessly for an answer to the hardest aspect of this business for retail traders to accept: losing money is the cost of doing business. They're never legitimately successful or they maintain a degree of success for a short while until their search takes them to another indicator or tipster.

Fact is, if you think Market Profile and it's theories and practices are out dated. Why not tell the CME:

http://www.cmegroup.com/education/in...t-profile.html

*Dated OCT, 2011

Just because a retail trader can't get his/her mind around a strategy, is too lazy to do the work, or too afraid to take some risks doesn't make the strategy inherently flawed. Some of the participants in this thread (myself included) have been using Market Profile for a while and it works for us. We've read the books, over and over again. We've made and lost money on it. Some of us have coded our own versions of it further deepening our understanding of every aspect of it.

In my experiences venturing through trading forums - which primarily exist for RETAIL traders - I've NEVER seen a "Look, I lost money on this trade" thread filled with screen shots of losing trades. The incessant desire to be right ALL the time will keep any retail trader from accomplishing anything in this business.

porquilhoo Mar 11, 2012 5:22pm | Post# 4588

im not sure what were the points you bring up there and how they fit into what i said.

Lets talk about strategies then. For once I don't like the word they use "strategy", but ok. I think if you lose money in a trade, its not just a trade you lose, you "lose" the idea behind that trade. It was wrong. So all is left is for you to know what went wrong with that idea. Why it was wrong. And suppose your things. Sometimes you will never know why it was wrong.

Yes I think its a bit outdated. I've read the books too, and their racionalizations of things. Allmost everything is suppositions and I don't see any facts backing up their affirmations. Forex is also diferent market. Things are diferent. there are robots, market makers etc.. I'm not saying Market theory is flawed, its a good idea, with lot of potential. But there is also a lot of subjective things about it.. The subjective part not backed up is what i don't like.

PS: i will shut up about this after the market open, its just end weekend offtopic thing

tgwhbb Mar 11, 2012 8:53pm | Post# 4589

- I've NEVER seen a "Look, I lost money on this trade" thread filled with screen shots of losing trades.
ha!, i guess you haven't read my posts!

Bilstein Mar 11, 2012 11:17pm | Post# 4590

ha!, i guess you haven't read my posts!
I was referring more to a thread composed entirely of mistakes.

But, LOL, none the less.

ivonivon Mar 11, 2012 11:41pm | Post# 4591

no lbst
 
Fact is, if you think Market Profile and it's theories and practices are out dated. Why not tell the CME:
No need. The investor told himself to the audience.
Also funny fact of RETAIL trader is it's hard for them to accept the fact.

http://img9.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...7ae9824f4a.gif

Datu Mar 12, 2012 1:15am | Post# 4592

"Oh So its not this one bell curve it was filling. It was this other one.." there is always another one you can make sense out of..
I believe this is key in the use of MP in developing one's strategy. Analyzing the transition from one fill to the next can help develop merge rules. Perhaps the outdated nature refers to traditional initial balances, intraday, etc concepts. I rarely don't take them into account as I'm more of a swing trader. But then again, maybe compositing multiple profiles turns out to be a larger IB.

mzvega Mar 12, 2012 1:54am | Post# 4593

im not sure what were the points you bring up there and how they fit into what i said.

Lets talk about strategies then. For once I don't like the word they use "strategy", but ok. I think if you lose money in a trade, its not just a trade you lose, you "lose" the idea behind that trade. It was wrong. So all is left is for you to know what went wrong with that idea. Why it was wrong. And suppose your things. Sometimes you will never know why it was wrong.

Yes I think its a bit outdated. I've read the books too, and their racionalizations...
I also belive its a bit outdated Market Profile theory.. A lot of things have changed..
Well, if you’re under the assumption that “market profile theory” is anything other than a data graphic you’re being misled
“Market profile” is a “Graphic/picture” not a Theory………..The “Thinking You Can Trade the MP Graphic Theory” using a strategy, may be in fact outdated……. What I don’t understand is I too have read all the books….and in each and every one explains this………The graphic is useless without knowledge & understanding of the “Auction Market Process”. “Auction market theory” is a methodology; it’s not a trading strategy. The mp graphic is used to interpret the auction market process, nothing else. What Tom Alexander is saying is there are people who will to teach you trade strategies using the graphic, which is nonsense.
Are you trading the mp graphic or are you reading/trading the auction market process?????????
Auction market theory originally goes back hundreds of years, when man first started trading goods with each other. Outdated hardly……. Insane theories on how to trade the market profile graphic, if not outdated already, it will be, because it doesn’t work without the knowledge & understanding of the Auction market process……..markets may change, the auction process does not , there is no strategy…….there are no “rules” ,you just read the market for what it is…………

Aztrader2 Mar 12, 2012 3:29am | Post# 4594

The fun thing about trading strategies involving retail traders is that you wind up with specific types of people.

The first type would be the people who use the strategy, take the time to read, gather knowledge and experience, and lose some money trying to make the strategy work for them. In the long run, they either stick with it or abandon it. But you cannot judge a strategy or trading system until you've risked some real capital on it.

The second type are the people who just never want to be wrong. They search relentlessly for an answer...
IMHO we actually face with 2 aspects:

1) The technical structure of MP. Since its presentation ('80s), 24/5 electronic market changed people's approach to trading. So, after reading the pillars works about MP, we have to discover the right direction to learn the actual process of market developing. Steadlmayer itself (Volume strips) is doing that. (Btw: I tried to listen to the video posted by Evak, but its very hard to me understand it, because he is the fastest speaking guy I've ever heard....and, unfortunately, english is not my motherlanguage....)

Some people here (Evak, Mzvega, Tg and you Bilstein) seems to have found their way to be profitable using MP. Moreover i found a guy who uses a self -made 24 H rolling MP and gathered enough knoweledge from it to successfully trade completely naked!
So, the approach can be so different as are traders using it......

2) The retail trader. You Bilstein, pointed out some of the major defects of "us", the newbie retail trader. I.e. some of us don't study enough, some have fear to "be wrong" and so on.....
But, in the immense ocean of informations is not so easy (for a newbie) not feeling lost.....
Let's say a newbie studies MP, reading (and reading and reading) the major books about it....
Then he must start to try trading using his acquired knoweledge... He obviously make mistakes....and loses money. But loosing money is a part of the business.... isn't it? He goes on practicing, try to correct mistakes (read again the books), but loses more money.....
So, the problem is: how much money (and time) must lose a (newbie) trader to understand if the problem is the (generally speaking) trading system, or the trader itself (i.e. his lack of understanding of a right theory)?

The book themselves ends almost all with the same old sentence: " I gave you the right tool.....but YOU must understand how to use it".....

Well, I don't think this is the right pedagogical way......

Moreover, there's not a "Trading University", but just some very expensive (thousands of dollars) educational courses (most of them made by each kind of data vendors). And, almost all are in english language, so not suitable to all people in the world...... E.g. I can read english, but it's hard to me attend hours and hours of webinars, without losing some key informations here and there......

This thread itself, it's not an educational one.... as I've experienced in my own detriment.... Seldom someone helps a newbie, coz..... HE MUST READ THE THREAD!
The same old sentence: Do it yourself!
Ok, I'm doing myself, but, also if read, I study, I try.... I can make mistakes. But I will never know if I'm wrong, or if the theory is wrong...... or, maybe I will know it when I will have no more money......

The REAL THING is: NOBODY SAYS THE TRUTH ABOUT TRADING! Neither books, nor courses or forum threads......
Why? Coz, if one really makes money trading, doesn't tells the truth to other people.....
At least, someone says a partial truth...and gains more money selling books and courses, than trading itself..... and then, if you don't make money after buying them....guess what is the answer....? THE FAULT IS YOURS...... coz you don't wanna read, you wanna be spoon feeded, you've the wrong psicological approach.... and so on.

The world is full of people who claims to know the right thing, and makes money trading...
BUT I'M STILL WAITING TO SEE A COMPLETE TRACK RECORD PROVING IT..... starting from Steidlmayer itself, ending with people into this thread......

And... if someone will show it.... I already know he/she will never tell me/us the right informations about his /her trading methodology, but just: THE FAULT IS YOURS........

It's ok for me! Why should someone tell me the truth? He/she had his/her hard way to learn it...so why should give it to me free? (But he/she doesn't also if I pay.....),
But, at least don't take me around saying that the idiot is me.......

mzvega Mar 12, 2012 4:35am | Post# 4595

1 Attachment(s)
No need. The investor told himself to the audience.
Also funny fact of RETAIL trader is it's hard for them to accept the fact.

http://img9.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...7ae9824f4a.gif
Funny fact that the retail trader, who is too lazy to educate themselves on the “auction market process”, is also too lazy to gather the facts and ask themselves why would Alexander Trading publish a book on the very subject 3 years later in 2008 if he believed that interview in 2005!?!? Why would he post that on his site? He obviously charges money to show people how to use this useless out of date theory. People, who are too lazy to pick up a book on the subject of the Auction Market Process, will pay hundreds of dollars, for someone to give them some quick course to learn……….. Anything to keep from having to read a book!!!!!!!
Also, think about it………that statement/interview was made after Steidlmayer sold his rights to the MP graphic. Why when explaining his new “volume strips” he uses the word “concave”????? Why? Because it’s the only way to explain the bell curve of the MP graphic without actually saying the word, because to say or use MP graphic to promote his new product would in fact be an infringement of the copy write he sold to the Cbot, now cme. We all know when he says “concave” he talking about the profile distribution, he’s still referring to the MP graphic to describe the auction process, he just can’t “say” it………when he sold his rights to the copy write, he sold his right to profit from it, of course it’s not an asset anymore, it has no value to him what so ever!
Anyway, point is, if you feel the way you do why do you continue to post here???????

This was written by the same man who posted that interview, 3 years after that interview took place……..
Click to Enlarge

Name: tom.jpg
Size: 298 KB

mzvega Mar 12, 2012 4:45am | Post# 4596

Just because a retail trader can't get his/her mind around a strategy, is too lazy to do the work, or too afraid to take some risks doesn't make the strategy inherently flawed.
But Bil,
........I dont waaaannnnaaaaa read a book


Does reading the last page of every book count?




bandung Mar 12, 2012 5:27am | Post# 4597

But Bil,
........I dont waaaannnnaaaaa read a book


Does reading the last page of every book count?



sorry out of topic,

you know what? I go to ivonivon profile and I saw two pretty girls
...then I go to your profile ... and I almost jump from my chair..

mzvega Mar 12, 2012 6:02am | Post# 4598

sorry out of topic,

you know what? I go to ivonivon profile and I saw two pretty girls
...then I go to your profile ... and I almost jump from my chair..
my babies.......
Thats my 113 pound schuetzen boy "Elvis", and the lovely lady "Stella"......they are both as sweet as me

Bilstein Mar 12, 2012 8:55am | Post# 4599

Woah, wildfires.

*Edit*

Wait, am I losing my mind here?

When I google "Alexander Trading" I get:

"ALEXANDER TRADING | Market Profile and Auction Market Concepts"

But, at the same time, we have Mr. "No lbst" (which as far as I'm concerned is absolutely meaningless) telling us it's worthless and posting garbage from Alexander trading backing his opinion. Soooo... is this the same Alexander Trading?

bandung Mar 12, 2012 9:03am | Post# 4600

my babies.......
Thats my 113 pound schuetzen boy "Elvis", and the lovely lady "Stella"......they are both as sweet as me
I believe you're sweet... but if Elvis and Stella is sweet then I must re-calibrate my understanding about "sweet"


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