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baronfei Oct 6, 2010 3:01am | Post# 1

Trading is an Art
 
Good day.

No, this thread is not gonna ask you to install 3 indicators and when indi A crossed indi B and indi C is pointing north then you got a signal. No, probably not.

A little about the thread starter.
I trade for my living. I trade for my survival. And I am attempting to trade like its joyous and fun, as if stress and problems never exist. i'm trying to trade like [in the now]... You read that international bestseller by Eckhart Tolle too, didn't you?

I am 26.
I have had blown an account or two.
I have had my confidence crisis.
I have had several Aha-I-got-it-moments.
I have applied numerous systems consistently, posted on FF or not.
I have developed numerous systems that seem to work, or not.
I have wrote my own indicator, despite my lousy programming knowledge.
I have been through a period of sustained negativity.
I have, because of that, studied fengshui, in attempt to improve my luck.
I have become a more conscious and spiritual person ever since trading exposed my life's vulnerability.
I have been making money in trading forex.

Have anyone really started to turn their trading failures into huge successes after following a system? a seminar or workshop?
I doubt most of us would and could.
The secret is that Trading can not be taught.
While sciences could be taught and formulas to be applied, trading couldn't.

Because its an ART. And with art, you can only realised. Thus, one could only be guided, but not taught. Its the same as Reiki Healing, Psychic, or spiritual enlightenment. It has gotta be realised.

At one point of your trading career, you'll probably discovered that there's no hardcore formula that could lead you to success. Because despite what experts have been telling you, there never was.

Fibos, Trendlines, Channels, Candlesticks, Patterns, etc they all work, but they don't work MAGIC. So, you don't depend on them, you make them work for you.

Next, I'll show you how I trade.

baronfei Oct 6, 2010 3:35am | Post# 2

The "System"
 
1 Attachment(s)
So, if its an Art, how does one goes about trading it?
There's no laws in the market. Laws as in a sense the Law of Gravity, the Law of Attraction, etc.

If there were ever Laws in the market, it would have been so predictable, repeating the same price action day after day, hitting that Fibo level and bounce back everytime, follow your upward channel and never broke through it.

But that doesn't mean that your tools (Fibs, at al) aint important. Because they are about the best assistance you could get navigating in the market. Simple because, a big lots of money is looking at these tools to enter/exit the market, and that is the primary reason for market movement.

Imagine today if you were Leonardo Fibonacci and you dictated that the golden numbers are instead 0.1258, 0.4335, 0.7144 and 1.1215, they would work just as great because, the price movers acknowledge and follow the levels!

Anyway, here's the trick on what I do usually and it just takes anywhere from 1 to 5 minutes of your time (I do it on E/U only).

Pop up a 1H chart on the time pre-volatile trading hours. I liked it pre-Euro session.

You would get something like this:

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The market may go up, or it may go down. Do whatever technical analysis you like with the chart (its an art, remember?).

1. Typically, I'd just draw what I see, a trend, a channel, a triangle, or just a range.
2. Then, typically, too, I'd like to have options for scenarios that the market is going up or down.
3. Set a Sell Stop and a Buy Stop.
4. Determine my targets, anyway from 40 to 100 pips. No one could tell you are wrong in this. You just have to be reasonable.
5. Determine the SL. Anywhere from 15 pips onwards and lesser than your TP.
6. Move your positions to BE when you have 20 pips floating profit.
7. Move on with life.

The essence of the "System"
Give yourself a reason to trade, via technical analysis of any kind.
Buy or Sell Stop. TP, SL, BE. That's it.

Important Notes:
Set your Buy/Sell Stops based what you FEEL NOW. Not what your mind is telling you to.
YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE RIGHT.
YOU DO NOT NEED TO HAVE PINPOINT ACCURACY.
Its an Art. Don't get stressed over rights or wrongs. That's what stoplosses are for.
You don't need to follow the blardy news, their usefulness in intraday trading is about as good as flipping a coin.
You don't need to zoom into smaller or larger timeframes to check this and that. C'mmon, give yourself a break, don't you already have a life full of challenges?
You don't need to add any rules to it, its only limiting your possibilities by the market.
You don't need to add any indicators whatsoever to it... Its already the best thing a trader could get, in my humble opinion.

baronfei Oct 6, 2010 3:41am | Post# 3

More examples
 
4 Attachment(s)
These charts are from my trading blog at www.wanwaihui.com
Its in chinese, so don't bother with it if you cant read it. I update it almost daily, and if you care enough just drop by I do have price levels painted on the charts for better visuals.

These are some of my examples.

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baronfei Oct 6, 2010 3:46am | Post# 4

A Note for Visitors
 
I might not be able to reply regularly to both personal messages or posts on the thread. But if you have comments, feel free to post.

If you are in anyway not happy with my concept, I don't mind at all you flaming the thread or anything.

But just be sure you come back every so often to check out on your posts, and when one day you realised that you are funny then you are pretty much very close to being a complete trader.

If you are the few lucky ones who could swallow what I have given here, and when it does help you realise something of importance or in anyway changed your trading career, do come back and help out those whom are still lost.

Trading is an Art... So, be artistic.

fxftime Oct 6, 2010 4:38am | Post# 5

It is !It's the art of Phycho!!!!
 
You 're right ! It's the art of Phycho!!!!

From what you have done, the world know more about you !

Acutuall ,know more about Phycho!

The whole world got hurt by your art of Phycho,
but you got fun as years ago!!!!

Now ,most people understand why Alexander Elder could be a real best professional expert in financial market !!!

He's a Psychiatrist! He understand your mind - The mind of Phycho !!!

spekitox Oct 6, 2010 5:15am | Post# 6

Hmm, let's see where this goes. I had a look at your chinese blog with google translator - it translates rather well - and it all seems so organized, so nice and tidy.

Did the translator get this right?

"Money is not difficult to make a net profit of +788 on Aug 9"

Mmmm, is it not difficult to make money? And should we be impressed about one certain lucky day's trading profits?

perjo Oct 6, 2010 6:05am | Post# 7

ok if i anderstand you put 2 trend lines and you wait since one of the two is broken and then you wait since horizontal line is broken. But how do you determinate the profit price?

BruntFCA Oct 6, 2010 6:27am | Post# 8

Where did you get your money from?

You say your 26, and already blew up 2 accounts. Thats what $50,000 at least? You do this for a living, so you already must have enough money to pay all your accomodation, food, taxes etc.

You need to clear at least $50,000 USD, a lot more if you are in HK.

If you make say 20% pa then I guess *you're trading account alone* must be what $250,000?

At 26, how many *years* of trading experience do you have exactly? I guess that puts you as 16 year old kid during the dot com bust, were you trading that?

Trading is about making gains *long term*, you don't say how long you've been trading, if you're only 26 then I can't see that you've had that much experience of the markets; moreover, you admit that you've blown up 2 accounts, so exactly, *how many years of profitable* trading have you done?

I'm sorry to say this, but you did say you wanted honest posts, you come across as some "rich kid" who's had some luck in the markets, no more no less.

baronfei Oct 6, 2010 6:46am | Post# 9

You 're right ! It's the art of Phycho!!!!

Now ,most people understand why Alexander Elder could be a real best professional expert in financial market !!!

He's a Psychiatrist! He understand your mind - The mind of Phycho !!!
That's right. Its the psychology once you grasp the basics of trading.
Its all in the mind.

baronfei Oct 6, 2010 6:49am | Post# 10

Hmm, let's see where this goes. I had a look at your chinese blog with google translator - it translates rather well - and it all seems so organized, so nice and tidy.

Did the translator get this right?

"Money is not difficult to make a net profit of +788 on Aug 9"

Mmmm, is it not difficult to make money? And should we be impressed about one certain lucky day's trading profits?
Actually it was the profit from August to September.
My luck hasn't brought me +788 pips in a day, no. Not that I have the psychology to attempt the feat anytime soon I guess.

And yes, money could be made with little difficult, if only you allow yourself the perspective.

baronfei Oct 6, 2010 6:55am | Post# 11

ok if i anderstand you put 2 trend lines and you wait since one of the two is broken and then you wait since horizontal line is broken. But how do you determinate the profit price?
I am happy with 40-80pips profit. I'd normally look for the the next 1 or 2 S/R that provides the kind of profit. S/R can be determined by Fibo, or price levels (20, 40, 60, 80), or previous visible S/R on the chart.

Its an Art. No one could ever be exact, save on a few lucky ocassions. So anywhere you put is just as fine.

Ask yourself this instead: How much do you want?

Sounds crazy right? Think about it again the next time you trade. Monitor how your "common sense" work for you. It almost always fail you, doesn't it?

mithras Oct 6, 2010 6:58am | Post# 12

nice thread , trading is an art.
I throw away those messy indicators, only one chart !

baronfei Oct 6, 2010 7:11am | Post# 13

Where did you get your money from?

You say your 26, and already blew up 2 accounts. Thats what $50,000 at least? You do this for a living, so you already must have enough money to pay all your accomodation, food, taxes etc.

You need to clear at least $50,000 USD, a lot more if you are in HK.

If you make say 20% pa then I guess *you're trading account alone* must be what $250,000?

At 26, how many *years* of trading experience do you have exactly? I guess that puts you as 16 year old kid during the dot com bust, were you trading that?

Trading...
Hey, chill out, my friend. Have you realised "negativity" has been "ntegrated with your "realism" without you knowing it? Try re-read what you have posted in a while and you will discover it.

I wished I was born a rich kid. Though I find being in an average family is apparently more rewarding.

No, I didn't have the convinience of USD50k account start off with. I have been trading for over 3 years, been profitable for more than half of that time - consistently - if I might add.

Experience is a misleading term, don't you think? In ancient China, there is this saying "学无前后,达者为先". It roughly means, "It doesn't matter who started first in the field of knowledge, for the one who has achieved will be considered the first."

I see you are from UK, let's put it the perspective of football:
Do you think Alan Shearer is necessarily better than Christino Ronaldo?
Or when Ronaldinho scored his freekick against England when he was below 20, would you ask him how much "experience" do you have to "deserve" scoring that freekick?

There's no absolute reality in this world. There's, however, only personal reality. Your personal reality isn't necessarily the truth, while it may appear true to you. So, open up and change your reality if it isn't helping you. To realise this has proven helpful to my life, I hope it would do the same to all of you.

baronfei Oct 6, 2010 7:12am | Post# 14

nice thread , trading is an art.
I throw away those messy indicators, only one chart !
Great!

chuks Oct 6, 2010 8:11am | Post# 15

Trading is all about price action
 
Hello Beronfei.
Trading is purely am art. And Price Action in only parameter in my option that will enhance the art of trading. My life, my trading changed the moment i realized the truth. Since then, i built my system around my personality, that is the psychology of trading.
PRICE IS ALL I NEED TO KNOW , every other thing is secondary.

baronfei Oct 6, 2010 9:14am | Post# 16

Hello Beronfei.
Trading is purely am art. And Price Action in only parameter in my option that will enhance the art of trading. My life, my trading changed the moment i realized the truth. Since then, i built my system around my personality, that is the psychology of trading.
PRICE IS ALL I NEED TO KNOW , every other thing is secondary.
Great to hear that! That's so right. Its always refreshing to know more people is realising the truth (though I sound like some religious faction here...)
Trading exposed the dark side of humanity. Face it and you shall prevail...

disarmed Oct 6, 2010 9:50am | Post# 17

I agree, trading is an art. But you need to know your technicals before you can express yourself well, just like learning a musical instrument.

baronfei Oct 7, 2010 1:08am | Post# 18

1 Attachment(s)
An example of my setup for today:
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I would normally prefer to see tight range, flat or upwards or downwards.
Now from the chart, I see an uptrend, then the near term I see "profit taking" or "pullbacks".

If the trend continues, what should be my stand? I wanna follow it. Thus, my buy stop.

Where should I put my TP? I feel 1.4000 is a major SR, and people will be looking at it. Lots of orders will be placed there. Meaning, 1.4000 broken thru or not, the price will go there! So, 1.3995 seems like a nice place for my TP.

How do you know if the "pullback" wouldnt turn into a "reversal"? You don't. So, set a sell stop there.

How about my TP for this order? Well, if the break downwards is sustained and meaningful, it should be anywhere around the region 1.3830. You'd ask why? I'd say I don't know... It's an art, you see. May be .3830 isn't a lower low, may be it just happened to hit a doji at that level, may be its one of the fibo resistance.

Pure logical reasoning won't work in trading. If it does, you would have been making lots of money right now.
Just place where you feel is right.
Trust your feelings, you can thin-slice the market you know.

Set your SL to BE @ +20pips by the way.

mithras Oct 7, 2010 4:12am | Post# 19

Thanks for your sharing.

I place a buy stop over 1.4000, say 1.4025 , which means the Breakout is "valid" . Area 3830 is the start of the "impulse wave". I think there will be a high volatility. For me, I won't sell until I got a valid reversal signal. just my 2 cents


An example of my setup for today:
Attachment 556963

I would normally prefer to see tight range, flat or upwards or downwards.
Now from the chart, I see an uptrend, then the near term I see "profit taking" or "pullbacks".

If the trend continues, what should be my stand? I wanna follow it. Thus, my buy stop.

Where should I put my TP? I feel 1.4000 is a major SR, and people will be looking at it. Lots of orders will be placed there. Meaning, 1.4000 broken thru or not, the price will go there! So, 1.3995 seems like a nice place...

baronfei Oct 7, 2010 6:04am | Post# 20

Thanks for your sharing.

I place a buy stop over 1.4000, say 1.4025 , which means the Breakout is "valid" . Area 3830 is the start of the "impulse wave". I think there will be a high volatility. For me, I won't sell until I got a valid reversal signal. just my 2 cents
Hi Mithras,
Thanks for sharing. Imho, I'll always "try", counter trend or not... There's never trend in the "now", only up or down. If price were meant to go up, it wouldnt hit the sell stop, and vice versa. I'd always prefer doing them early, the tightest "range in the now" that I picked up.

But we are both right, you know. Cheers...

baronfei Oct 7, 2010 8:40am | Post# 21

An example of my setup for today:
Attachment 556963

I would normally prefer to see tight range, flat or upwards or downwards.
Now from the chart, I see an uptrend, then the near term I see "profit taking" or "pullbacks".

If the trend continues, what should be my stand? I wanna follow it. Thus, my buy stop.

Where should I put my TP? I feel 1.4000 is a major SR, and people will be looking at it. Lots of orders will be placed there. Meaning, 1.4000 broken thru or not, the price will go there! So, 1.3995 seems like a nice place for...
Anyway, I'm done for today with +65.

frankkn Oct 7, 2010 8:47am | Post# 22

Subscribed!

I really like your thread

baronfei Oct 7, 2010 9:03am | Post# 23

Subscribed!

I really like your thread
Oh my god! Thank you! I assumed you like stress-free and simple trading style too right? Welcome aboard!

mithras Oct 7, 2010 9:08am | Post# 24

Anyway, I'm done for today with +65.

very nice ! I do like your 1H S/R trading method.

I scalp in 5M at 7:30 (GMT+1) when it break through 3940 ( previous last night 5M resistance) and sold @1.3970. +30 ,and waiting for the "test" of 1.4000

and baronfei, did you trade last night?

(I have checked your blog. That freaking whipsaw did ruin a good day)

baronfei Oct 7, 2010 9:19am | Post# 25

very nice ! I do like your 1H S/R trading method.

I scalp in 5M at 7:30 (GMT+1) when it break through 3940 ( previous last night 5M resistance) and sold @1.3970. +30 ,and waiting for the "test" of 1.4000

and baronfei, did you trade last night?
Thank you. I hope it did give you a little bit of inspiration like other threads me.

I actually do trade on lower timeframes, but i love this one most because it took the least time, and thus stress out of trading.

1.4 has been broken and retraced. You entering? My feelings (thin-slicing) says no... anyway, I'm happy with my profits today, so i'm giving myself a break

As the famous Chinese saying goes "钱是赚不完的", which means, You'll never have enough when it comes to money.

I hope you all find peace with trading today...

mithras Oct 7, 2010 9:38am | Post# 26

I entered , bought @1.4025 and stop my loss @1.4000.
yet I see a "reversal fractal" ( my trading method , ) so I sold @1.3999 and target is @1.3960 ( support)

Thank you. I hope it did give you a little bit of inspiration like other threads me.

I actually do trade on lower timeframes, but i love this one most because it took the least time, and thus stress out of trading.

1.4 has been broken and retraced. You entering? My feelings (thin-slicing) says no... anyway, I'm happy with my profits today, so i'm giving myself a break

As the famous Chinese saying goes "钱是赚不完的", which means, You'll never have enough when it comes to money.

I hope you...

mithras Oct 7, 2010 9:45am | Post# 27

target reached. +36 - 26 ( loss in 1.4000) + 30 ( London Session) = 40 pips

>Apocalypto< Oct 7, 2010 9:51am | Post# 28

Good day.

No, this thread is not gonna ask you to install 3 indicators and when indi A crossed indi B and indi C is pointing north then you got a signal. No, probably not.
Hi baronfei,

nice thread and nice concepts here, I also identify with what your speaking about in my trading. I am enjoying this thread, keep it coming. I trade off 1m and 1hour and all my trades are based off range/support resistance breaks.....

** we just had a very nice short off a range break on 1min EURUSD (it's still going but i am out).......****

Good Trading to you.

baronfei Oct 7, 2010 10:23am | Post# 29

I entered , bought @1.4025 and stop my loss @1.4000.
yet I see a "reversal fractal" ( my trading method , ) so I sold @1.3999 and target is @1.3960 ( support)
Wow, I don't see quite many people doing that. If one could employ it naturally, it'd be a formidable approach. I, for one, don't have that trait in me. Keep it up!

baronfei Oct 7, 2010 10:30am | Post# 30

Hi baronfei,

nice thread and nice concepts here, I also identify with what your speaking about in my trading. I am enjoying this thread, keep it coming. I trade off 1m and 1hour and all my trades are based off range/support resistance breaks.....

** we just had a very nice short off a range break on 1min EURUSD (it's still going but i am out).......****

Good Trading to you.
Hi Apocalypto,

That's refreshing to hear!
I'd like to keep screen time minimal so I could spend more time developing myself... But its always good to hear people who have also applied this approach in 1min TF.

Anyway, pretty funny how you use "we" there... Are you trading in a group?

>Apocalypto< Oct 7, 2010 6:28pm | Post# 31

Hi Apocalypto,

That's refreshing to hear!
I'd like to keep screen time minimal so I could spend more time developing myself... But its always good to hear people who have also applied this approach in 1min TF.

Anyway, pretty funny how you use "we" there... Are you trading in a group?
no group just late night English..............

frankkn Oct 7, 2010 8:22pm | Post# 32

no group just late night English..............
Yeah I should be in class right now too hahaha

baronfei Oct 8, 2010 1:26am | Post# 33

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This is my setup for today.
I know there's pretty heavy news coming up tonight, but I'm giving it a try to see how it goes.

My stops are 25 pips away from entries, and remember to set SL to BE at +20pips!

mithras Oct 8, 2010 11:23am | Post# 34

Attachment 557739

This is my setup for today.
I know there's pretty heavy news coming up tonight, but I'm giving it a try to see how it goes.

My stops are 25 pips away from entries, and remember to set SL to BE at +20pips!
high volatility day , but still reached the target,

Mr J Oct 8, 2010 9:30pm | Post# 35

The secret is that Trading can not be taught.
While sciences could be taught and formulas to be applied, trading couldn't.

Because its an ART. And with art, you can only realised. Thus, one could only be guided, but not taught.
Art versus science is just a mainstream human perception. Everything we do as a trader has science behind it, we may just perceive it as "art" because we have not quantified our actions.

Trading can't generally be taught well not because it is an art and not a science, but because of human limits to learning. We're driven by emotion, desire, ego etc, and even if we regard ourselves as logical traders, these still interfere with our learning process. Certain information will appeal to our nature, perhaps leading us to overlook other, more valuable information. We limit our ability to learn.

While sciences could be taught and formulas to be applied, trading couldn't.
In your opinion. In my opinion, it can. Few may be able to learn this way, but I'm certain it is possible.

you'll probably discovered that there's no hardcore formula that could lead you to success
Of course there is a formula. It's often said hard work, talent and a dose of good luck will lead us to success. That is a formula.

Don't take this too negatively; while I disagree with what I've commented on, I think the first post still holds plenty of value. Many are looking for that single method, system or trick that will propel them onto a path of quick riches, and it just doesn't work that way. I also think it makes trading all the more rewarding.

JeffC Oct 9, 2010 1:13pm | Post# 36

I like to study foreign languages. In my childhood I read a dictionary like an interesting story. Therefore I became successful. Same thing I think with market. I agree it is an art. A very interesting art.

baronfei Oct 11, 2010 1:25am | Post# 37

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It was a neck snapping Friday.
This is my setup for today.

Short:
Entry 1.3950
SL 1.3975
TP 1.3905
Long:
Entry 1.3990
SL 1.3955
TP 1.4060

Once again, do visit my blog www.wanwaihui.com, drop a comment or so I'm sure we could share something and discover a little from all my previous setups... Or simply leave a comment here I'll try to reply.

baronfei Oct 11, 2010 1:28am | Post# 38

I like to study foreign languages. In my childhood I read a dictionary like an interesting story. Therefore I became successful. Same thing I think with market. I agree it is an art. A very interesting art.
So do you also have the pleasure to study Chinese? Although it was my mother tongue, we don't exact have a proficient writing/spoken level in Brunei (the country I reside in). So, I actually took the effort to learn the language and it is just fascinating. Though im exactly a dictionary-type of person

baronfei Oct 11, 2010 1:47am | Post# 39

Art versus science is just a mainstream human perception. Everything we do as a trader has science behind it, we may just perceive it as "art" because we have not quantified our actions.

Trading can't generally be taught well not because it is an art and not a science, but because of human limits to learning. We're driven by emotion, desire, ego etc, and even if we regard ourselves as logical traders, these still interfere with our learning process. Certain information will appeal to our nature, perhaps leading us to overlook other, more valuable...
Hello J,

Appreicate your reply and effort spent reading the post.
In my humble opinion, science can be applied to an art to understand its mechanics, but science can not be applied in practicing an art. Well, in the end, it could just be the difference in our "perceptions" towards the same object. While we are in our own perspective, everything becomes subjective. And I'd think that perceiving the market from an Art pov would greatly reduce the limits of our otherwise rigid perception.

It may be hardwork, talent, some luck and maybe perserverance that would lead to success. But, like everything else, these terms could mean different things to different people. For instance, hard work might mean screen time, or back tests, or training the mind, or 2 of the 3 or all of them altogether, but by what proportion? etc... It's different in all of us instead of 1+1=2 (well, as long as we are not talking about a man and a woman here, lol).

Well, I'm trying to expand on my concept while I can. You may agree or disagree to my opinions but I find it fruitful to have these kind of conversations, honestly.

Cheers!

baronfei Oct 11, 2010 5:09am | Post# 40

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Got a BE today and the long signal is voided.
Take a break
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