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NYWallSt Dec 31, 2009 9:57am | Post# 1

How my Trading took BIG turn...
 
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Hello to everyone on the FF Forums, Obviously you can tell this is my very first post, however Ive been lurking around the forums for a long time and for what it's worth, i wanted to share with others out there who are struggling or cant find the right "system" to trade profitable. I have tried indicators to no end, I have tested, back tested, simulated tested.. everything i could do to try and find a "right" system to trade on the winning side, I had some winning trades with some decent Indicators and trading systems but still nothing great. I must have spent hundreds of hours looking at charts with systems and indicators, still my trading results were OK. I struggled and thought, this is crazy, being profitable trading felt almost impossible but i refused to give up (competetive by nature due to athletic backround). Then it hit me. The Best system, is no system. Just raw price charting. I used to work for a large bank doing systems support on the trading floor downtown and i remember this one floor trader i used to help with his Workstation applications, I asked him what "system" or what Indicator he thought was useful to trading and he was nice enough to give me some tips, He said "Trading is simple, All the information you need is right on the chart, Period" Thinking back to that, i deleted all indicators on my chart and right on, all you ever need is to see what price is currently doing and formations of chart patterns. My trading became profitable and i no longer was wondering if indicators were giving me correct signals. The biggest problem i had was Lag, By the time i got a "signal" the move was almost over and resulted in me entering and price reversing on me soon after. I can tell you right now, Trading a blank chart is a breath of fresh air and the patterns are simple and clear. Some examples of recent trades i took were incredibly simple. N/J and the E/A. Just Support, Resistance and Trendlines.

This is my Experience Trading, I started off trading EQT market but came into forex a while ago (I find FX Market much better than the Stock Market).
Anyway, Save yourself a headache, Give this a thought and may relieve you of searching for the right system or indicator for hours and hours. All you need is Price.
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kingfisher Dec 31, 2009 11:18am | Post# 2

Right...i agree..great post.

Trading is simple though making money out of it is not.

loganf Dec 31, 2009 11:33am | Post# 3

thanks
 
Thanks for sharing w/us. Please if you csan show where you would enter & exit.
many thanks and a very hsppy new year to you & your loved ones
loganf.

swingtrader Dec 31, 2009 11:50am | Post# 4

Hello to everyone on the FF Forums, Obviously you can tell this is my very first post, however Ive been lurking around the forums for a long time and for what it's worth, i wanted to share with others out there who are struggling or cant find the right "system" to trade profitable. I have tried indicators to no end, I have tested, back tested, simulated tested.. everything i could do to try and find a "right" system to trade on the winning side, I had some winning trades with some decent Indicators and trading systems but still nothing great....

yes you are very correct....


I am so grateful to almighty GOD that i never understood any indicator so far,so in short it saved lot of my time and energy.

Troikaone1 Dec 31, 2009 11:56am | Post# 5

Finally......somebody gets it!!! The only purpose for trading systems is to make money off of the unsuspecting public and for those who would prefer to let some silly algorithm to justify them pulling the trigger. If they have a bad trade they can blame the trading system. Trading systems are created by unknowing individuals who think price action is some sort of secret equation. There is no secret physical law or equation in a forex chart. Trading is all about support and resistance or supply and demand. A third component in trading is ratios which can be used to approximate overbought and oversold conditions.

Scottstone Dec 31, 2009 12:50pm | Post# 6

yes, I also agree. a great man by the name of Sam Sieden has opened my eyes to the laws of supply and demand. It was like a light bulb came on in my head once I knew what to look for on a price chart. I have been demo trading for about a year and a half now and after coming across this guy, my trading has improved 10 fold. I can't believe how much easier trading has become. Now most off the time, I can just pick my levels and set a limit order and forget about them. Just itching for the day when I can trade a real account.

bigwal Dec 31, 2009 12:55pm | Post# 7

Bravo !!
 
Me too, Me too.

When i first looked at Forex, i also looked for a "winning system", with so many indicators on my screen, i couldnt see what price was upto. They all looked so good, bells and whistles, colours and lines. I didnt know if i was coming or going, talk about using a machine gun to take trades, sure i would hit a winner now and then but with the spray of bullits come more losses. I too almost gave up, but i knew if i stumbled across something i would be able to turn things around.

That day come when i found information on here called price action, these days i wait in a tree for my target, like a sniper, waiting my ideal shot. There is something very grand about being in control, yes.....i am in control.

Before i enter a trade i know my risk and my reward, the "system" comes from within.

I love this business and i love this forum, for it is where i found my future.

My name is Warren and i am a Forex Trader

magnumfreak Dec 31, 2009 1:03pm | Post# 8

indicators are like golf clubs. They won't make you any better unless you learn how to use them properly.

I actually use a combination of S&R with indicators. Everyone has to find a method that works for them.

smittens4212 Dec 31, 2009 1:06pm | Post# 9

I love this business and i love this forum, for it is where i found my future.

My name is Warren and i am a Forex Trader

Quite the epic phrasing there

bigwal Dec 31, 2009 1:20pm | Post# 10

Smittens,

It has been a epic journey.......

NYWallSt Dec 31, 2009 5:26pm | Post# 11

Thanks for sharing w/us. Please if you csan show where you would enter & exit.
many thanks and a very hsppy new year to you & your loved ones
loganf.
Thanks Loganf, I enter when a trend break or resistance/support level is taken out. As for Target Profits, i aim for 100+ pips on 4Hr and Daily charts. I may put a Trailing Stop or Move my Stop loss to break even when im in profit a good amount.

NYWallSt Dec 31, 2009 5:39pm | Post# 12

yes you are very correct....


I am so grateful to almighty GOD that i never understood any indicator so far,so in short it saved lot of my time and energy.
Yeah, i Wish i had never found indicators but its fine, it was a learning experience. I guess thats why 90% - 95% of traders lose money because when you do a search on google about learning forex or any other market, your going to get hundreds of links to Systems, Indicators, EA's, Robots..etc. Not much on trading a naked chart. The beauty of trading price action is you can see or plan a trade in advance as a price pattern is panning out.

jasin876 Jan 1, 2010 1:01am | Post# 13

agree
 
i agree with your experience.looking forward to learn from you to identified s&r level

4xplosion Jan 1, 2010 2:02am | Post# 14

Time Frame
 
"The beauty of trading price action is you can see or plan a trade in advance as a price pattern is panning out"

....NY....I really like the apparent simplicity and potential profitability of your insights.....and this is an excellent way to set up a trading plan....My question for you is, what time frame are you using for analyzing the trend and what time frame are you using for entering the trade....for example if the trend is long on the 4hr then I would only be looking for longs on the 1 hour (for entry)....

forexmick Jan 1, 2010 2:15am | Post# 15

Thanks Loganf, I enter when a trend break or resistance/support level is taken out. As for Target Profits, i aim for 100+ pips on 4Hr and Daily charts. I may put a Trailing Stop or Move my Stop loss to break even when im in profit a good amount.
You and I trade in a similar way. The 50% fibonacci is worth using too.

forexmick Jan 1, 2010 2:18am | Post# 16

Yeah, i Wish i had never found indicators but its fine, it was a learning experience. I guess thats why 90% - 95% of traders lose money because when you do a search on google about learning forex or any other market, your going to get hundreds of links to Systems, Indicators, EA's, Robots..etc. Not much on trading a naked chart. The beauty of trading price action is you can see or plan a trade in advance as a price pattern is panning out.
Getting away from relying on indicators was the difficult thing for me. A good discussion with another trader was the turnaround for me.

NYWallSt Jan 1, 2010 2:54am | Post# 17

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"The beauty of trading price action is you can see or plan a trade in advance as a price pattern is panning out"

....NY....I really like the apparent simplicity and potential profitability of your insights.....and this is an excellent way to set up a trading plan....My question for you is, what time frame are you using for analyzing the trend and what time frame are you using for entering the trade....for example if the trend is long on the 4hr then I would only be looking for longs on the 1 hour (for entry)....
I Used to trade on smaller time frames but the patterns look cleaner on longer time frames IMO. I dont really go as far as the Weekly or Monthly but 4hr and the Daily is what i use. I watch whats going on in the 4hr time and then see what the daily says. Ill give a quick example of what im currently looking at. USD/JPY.

On the 4Hr the U/J seems to be rising and even broke through the previous resistance levels, However there was better than expected US Unemployment numbers and that could just be a run up from that. USD has been on a strong run from November. Looking at the daily though, I see a downtrend and possibly a bearish triangle. Ill be watching to see if that downtrend continues or atleast one more swing back down before a move higher.
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NYWallSt Jan 1, 2010 4:54am | Post# 18

Getting away from relying on indicators was the difficult thing for me. A good discussion with another trader was the turnaround for me.
Yeah, I Understand. I had the same problem a long time ago, In fact i came full circle because when i very first started trading, i was doing manual analysis without indicators and then when doing more research i came across Stochastics, then MACD, Then Moving Average Crossovers, Then RSI... and on and on and on. I felt like i needed these indicators to justify the trade (you know,.. Overbought/Oversold..etc). Whats funny is that while your looking at what your indicators are saying for a "good" entry, the market gives you a bag of price pattern signals all week. Patterns repeating themselves over and over again, All you have to do while watching price is read it, trade it, profit. Rinse and repeat as the next price patterns form.

trade4pip Jan 1, 2010 6:12am | Post# 19

Thanks NyWallSt, I completely agree with you, I think trendline, S&R and fibonacci and maybe pivot points are all a trader needs for technical analysis.

It is also important that you have a fundamental view of market and understand the major trend and possibly sideway market.

But I have a problem, I can't find a good approach for ST & TP. I supposed to use fibonacci extensions but that would mix things complex and sometimes doesn't work.

I appreciate if you can help me to find a deciplined approach for Entry/Exit.

Thanks,
Reza

Troikaone1 Jan 1, 2010 7:49am | Post# 20

One of the biggest revelations I ever had about trading the FOREX market is that you absolutely cannot trade it every hour of every day. If you are patient and pick your spots, you can have great success. When the forex market moves decisively up or down it is likened to a giant rhino moving thru the brush. I make my move in whatever direction the rhino moves.

If you get bored easily and lack a hunter's patience....the FOREX market will kill you.

ha-pattern Jan 1, 2010 8:02am | Post# 21

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This thread uses only trendlines. Same for me. TL's are all-purpose as s/r, horizontals, fibs.
Note, though, that traditional patterns cherry-pick / are discontinuous, and oscillating indicators repaint / are inaccurate. I find I'm always studying to make a better approach to decrease this using only TL's.

A centerline (using some midlines to measure the 50%) may help one trade the little stuff on the chart above:
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trade4pip Jan 1, 2010 8:33am | Post# 22

Thanks NyWallSt, I completely agree with you, I think trendline, S&R and fibonacci and maybe pivot points are all a trader needs for technical analysis.

It is also important that you have a fundamental view of market and understand the major trend and possibly sideway market.

But I have a problem, I can't find a good approach for ST & TP. I supposed to use fibonacci extensions but that would mix things complex and sometimes doesn't work.

I appreciate if you can help me to find a deciplined approach for Entry/Exit.

Thanks,
Reza
Please anyone who has used this approach successfully in the market for long term help us to understand Entries/Exits
I understand trendlines, S&R, Fibonacci,... but I want to hear of you and see how you enter and exit market based on these tools and how you set your ST & TP.
Is here anyone who use a small constant TP to avoid complexity and monitoring...

sam69 Jan 1, 2010 11:06am | Post# 23

Please anyone who has used this approach successfully in the market for long term help us to understand Entries/Exits
I understand trendlines, S&R, Fibonacci,... but I want to hear of you and see how you enter and exit market based on these tools and how you set your ST & TP.
Is here anyone who use a small constant TP to avoid complexity and monitoring...
you can look in FEB's "System II" thread,this is basicaly the same but in FEB's thread they dont use trendlines,only breakouts by identifying swings and pullbacks...

cyberfx Jan 1, 2010 3:54pm | Post# 24


If you get bored easily and lack a hunter's patience....the FOREX market will kill you.
Yes, i agree

hanover Jan 1, 2010 4:39pm | Post# 25

Some thoughts on why S/R possibly 'works'
 
My understanding is this: Markets are the result of belief systems that create orderflow. Phenomena like S/R and trendlines are easily and unambiguously visible on several timeframes, and have consequently become so pervasive in their use, that many orders get placed in those areas.

The market operates on willing buyer/willing seller and (as has been pointed out already) supply and demand. Increase in demand results in buying pressure, and vice versa. Pending (limit) orders create liquidity, while market orders consume it. This analogy is an over-simplification, but I think of larger-than-normal candles at the start of a move as adding 'energy' (predominantly market orders) to push price in a certain direction, and strategic levels (where pending orders have been placed) as 'barriers' that absorb this energy. When the energy has been totally dissipated, demand is effectively exhausted and price can move no further. The greatest probability of exhaustion occurring is going to be at levels where the greatest volumes of pending orders have been placed. Given the mentality that currently pervades the market, that is going to be S/R.

Visibility is important when one thinks in terms of these probabilities. The more visible a phenomenon or pattern is, the greater the potential of its contributing to a 'self-fulfilling prophecy'. S/R (local price high/lows) and trendlines (if likewise constructed through the same highs/lows) are going to be unambiguously visible on multiple timeframes, hence they will be seen, and potentially acted upon, by the highest number of traders. Fibos are consistent to whatever extent that traders use the same swing points to construct them; daily pivot levels are similarly dependent upon the cutoff times on which their calculation is based; round numbers are universally consistent, for obvious reasons.

Candle patterns are a little less 'visible' than line studies, due to their arbitrary cutoff points; for example, H4 candles on a chart based around GMT+1 are going to be different to those on a GMT+2 based chart, since different data is being gathered for each candle. Nonetheless, candles are useful in reflecting momentum (the rate at which price moves) and in highlighting rejection of key price levels. Large bodied candles frequently appear both at the start, and at the end, of decent moves.

Indicators are the least consistently visible of all, for two major reasons. Firstly, they are timeframe dependent, e.g. a SMA(10) on a M15 chart will plot a very different curve than a SMA(10) on a H1 chart. Secondly, they tend to be calibrated subjectively. There are folk who use 10 period MAs, 20, 30, 50, 100, 200; there's Bill Williams and the 'fibo-folk' who use 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, etc period MAs; there are James16 and others who use 150 and 365 period MAs; and so on. And of course some recommend SMAs and others EMAs. The same logic applies to Stochastic, RSI, MACD, and so on. Third party developed indicators have even lower probability of signposting areas of high order volume, other than fortuitously.

In terms of how to use this information profitably, I look for areas of S/R and congestion, where price is more likely to be obstructed, and conversely where it's more likely to move freely, which is ideally where I want to be most heavily positioned. That is the whole philosophy behind breakout trading, jumping on the bandwagon immediately the shackles have been broken, and price moves away from congestion into the deep blue yonder. Another key is developing a 'feel' for which S/R levels are more likely to be respected, something that I'm slowly learning. In general, longer timeframe S/R is more reliable (again, probably a visibility issue), although the 'zones' tend to be wider, necessitating a greater margin for error. When price breaks through a key level, and then revisits that level ('flipover' S/R), there is a higher-than-normal probability that the breakout will continue, facilitating an excellent low risk entry. If price revisits an area where there are a number of prior candle highs/lows in the vicinity, then probabilities further increase commensurately; I also like to look selectively for confluences (multiple S/R points, trendlines, round number, pivot levels, etc) in an area, to put as many potential barriers between entry and SL as possible, increasing the probability of a reversal before the SL is hit. The lower the number of pips between entry and SL, the greater the potential for a higher RR trade. Alternatively, we can shift down to a lower timeframe to confirm rejection of a level, before placing our entry. It is a finely judged compromise in 'optimzing' between the confirmation (reliability) of a later entry, and the better RR potential that's delivered by an earlier one; which ultimately expresses itself in terms of win rate versus win size.

Everything else being equal, RR and win rate operate in inverse proportion to each other, but we can use abstracts like trend, S/R and momentum (large candles can give clues as to when a high number of heavyweight buyers or sellers are entering the market) to overcome this inherent equilibrium. If we view exits as the inverse of entries, then the same S/R-like principles can be used to scale out of trades at higher probability areas. The more accurate our entries and exits are, on average, relative to price reversals, the more pips we will bank in the longer term.

Having said all this, I know profitable traders who use indicators. Indicators can be especially useful if they highlight phenomena that's not immediately obvious from price alone. Oscillator-based divergences are a possible case in point. As for me, I like regression channels and Bollinger bands to give me a rough idea of overbought or oversold. If I'm trading pullbacks in a trend, it's handy to know how far price is overbought or oversold, standard deviation-wise, as an adjunct to S/R. I like to aggregate as many independent potential 'edges' as possible. But, at least personally, I don't rely on indicator based signals to time my entries, largely because of (1) their low visibility and subjective calibration, (2) the potential dangers of curve-fitting, and (3) since all indys are ultimately derived from OHLCV, stacking indys (supposedly in the hope of reducing false signals) isn't really adding independent confirmation. Virtually all entries are either breakouts (buying strength or selling weakness) or pullbacks (buying temporary weakness or selling temporary strength), and any indicator can be calibrated to enter earlier or later into the emerging move. As I said a couple of paragraphs back, earlier or later is effectively a tradeoff between win rate and win size. So I would argue that no indicator is significantly better than another, signal-wise. To avoid the possibility of over-optimization, I prefer using 'robust' abstracts like trend, S/R, momentum, OB/OS, and relative currency strength.

On the thread topic of what has helped my trading the most, I would have to say understanding correlation and relative currency strength. Relative strength is no more a leading or lagging indicator than price itself, but there are big advantages to be gained by trading the most negatively correlated currencies against each other, i.e. the strongest against the weakest. The more negatively correlated two currencies are, the further, and (just as importantly) more cleanly their associated pair tends to trend, hence more pips banked on winning trades. Conversely, if you look at charts of highly positively correlated currencies, you'll see a lot of sideways movement, and overlapping candles with long wicks, another symptom of sideways zigzagging. I don't study fundamentals, but obviously if one nation's economy is currently particularly strong or weak for whatever reason, then that will be reflected in the currency strength. Another great aspect to strength is that operates independently of TA-based entries and exits, merely telling us which pair(s) to trade; and unlike simply plying additional indicators onto the same chart, it is bringing data independent of the pair being traded, into the decision-making process.

Positive correlation can potentially add confluence to S/R levels, but we're getting way beyond the KISS principle here. What happens if positively correlated pairs like NZDUSD and AUDUSD both approach key S/R levels simultaneously? The answer has to be higher probability of a bounce, i.e. S/R x 2 plus the means to keep the correlation phenomenon intact.

Sorry, long post, I guess one thing led to another, LOL. Better get back to some real work now.

Sim Jan 1, 2010 4:49pm | Post# 26

Wow lol.. nice work!

swingmonkey Jan 2, 2010 1:51am | Post# 27

Interesting. I accidently stumbled upon your thread while searching for comments on the Goodman Swing Count Sytem after reading about it in Micheal Dwane Archers "Getting Started in Forex Trading Strategies" where he also writes about the dangers of using S/R's. I'm interested in knowing if you've read anything of Michael Dwane Archer and if so what are your thoughts?

hanover Jan 2, 2010 4:11am | Post# 28

Interesting. I accidently stumbled upon your thread while searching for comments on the Goodman Swing Count Sytem after reading about it in Micheal Dwane Archers "Getting Started in Forex Trading Strategies" where he also writes about the dangers of using S/R's. I'm interested in knowing if you've read anything of Michael Dwane Archer and if so what are your thoughts?
Not sure if your question was aimed at the original poster, or me. Anyway, I Googled Goodman and Archer and found this. Some of the ideas seemed similar to those expressed in a book I read a year or so back on wave theory, by James Bickford.

I see technical 'levels' in any market being created for any of the following reasons:

(1) Self-fulfilling prophecy: if enough heavyweight traders believe in a similar concept, they will create the consequent order flow.

(2) Mass psychology: a collective averaging process of crowd fear, greed and other emotions, causing orders to congregate at certain levels. For example, some folk believe that the human brain is somehow wired to (subconsciously) act at or near Fibonacci levels.

(3) Deliberate manipulation: by brokers and heavyweight players, in so far as this is possible, e.g. stop hunting causing apparent fakeouts.

(4) Correlative impact: if price reverses at a certain level in one pair, then it will have a gravitational effect on other pairs that are highly correlated. Also, the inherent correlation between spot forex and currency futures, options, etc.

(5) Apparently random events: exhaustion of buying or selling power just happens to occur in 'no man's land'; or large market order(s) unexpectedly materialize, from participants with either speculative, or non-speculative, goals; and no doubt a variety of other reasons.

Of the above concepts, the only one that meets any kind of wave analysis rationale is (2). Having said that, that's on the basis of a 10 minute read of the internet based material that I was able find on Goodman/Archer, so it's probably very presumptuous of me to assume anything.

NYWallSt Jan 2, 2010 4:29am | Post# 29

Interesting. I accidently stumbled upon your thread while searching for comments on the Goodman Swing Count Sytem after reading about it in Micheal Dwane Archers "Getting Started in Forex Trading Strategies" where he also writes about the dangers of using S/R's. I'm interested in knowing if you've read anything of Michael Dwane Archer and if so what are your thoughts?
Hey Swing, Hanover already made some points regarding your post but no, i have never heard of Goodman Swing Count System, Ill take a look a it. Would like to know the dangers of using Support and Resistance. As for me i just trade what the market is showing in price patterns (Rising/Falling Wedges, Triangles, Head and Shoulders, Break of resistance/Support..etc..) These patterns are always happening and i just keep it simple by using the basics of Support becomes resistance and vice versa.

ph3onix Jan 2, 2010 5:37am | Post# 30

To better identification of theese price patters check out Glenn Neely's book called "Mastering Elliott Wave". There are 4 types of "triangles" with hard rules, which allow you to identify "true triangle price activity". Also if you know triangle type, you can compute the target which must be reached after triangle ends.

localia Jan 2, 2010 6:40am | Post# 31

Candle patterns
 
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Candle patterns are a little less 'visible' than line studies, due to their arbitrary cutoff points; for example, H4 candles on a chart based around GMT+1 are going to be different to those on a GMT+2 based chart, since different data is being gathered for each candle. Nonetheless, candles are useful in reflecting momentum (the rate at which price moves) and in highlighting rejection of key price levels. Large bodied candles frequently appear both at the start, and at the end, of decent moves.
From my point of view candles patterns work quite well in high timeframes.

Is not the holy grail, but in combination with correct support or resistance levels you can develop a profitable trade.
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stock-market Jan 2, 2010 10:05am | Post# 32

hi
 
good post.Stocks that trade within the top performing sectors have tremendous short and long-term opportunities. Perhaps that is why so many successful traders and fund managers are proponents of this strategy.

Haxor Jan 2, 2010 10:29am | Post# 33

Great!
 
My understanding is this: Markets are the result of belief systems that create orderflow. Phenomena like S/R and trendlines are easily and unambiguously visible on several timeframes, and have consequently become so pervasive in their use, that many orders get placed in those areas.

...
Fantastic post my friend. I really enjoyed it!

Regards

Greg

Caesar95 Jan 2, 2010 11:29am | Post# 34

My understanding is this: Markets are the result of belief systems that create orderflow......Sorry, long post, I guess one thing led to another, LOL. Better get back to some real work now.
Great Post! I already saved this in my word document!

hanover Jan 2, 2010 1:54pm | Post# 35

From my point of view candles patterns work quite well in high timeframes.

Is not the holy grail, but in combination with correct support or resistance levels you can develop a profitable trade.
Agree 100%, this was something I learned while studying James16. Hammers (pinbars), railroad tracks, outside bars and engulfing bodies all signpost large/fast shifts in momentum, and will almost always allow an earlier entry into a move than indicators (on the same timeframe). As you say, combine these with S/R and/or OB/OS and you have the makings of a profitable entry method. The longer the timeframe, the greater the reliability, but (for whatever it's worth) the lower the number of trading opportunities.

FXSurfer Jan 2, 2010 5:15pm | Post# 36

Really great thread here!

People can say what they want in defense of indicators but, the lag kills any benefit (objectivity, definiteness, etc.) IMO. Also, they serve to divert your attention from where it needs to be - from the market itself.

steveshelby Jan 2, 2010 5:50pm | Post# 37

yes, I also agree. a great man by the name of Sam Sieden has opened my eyes to the laws of supply and demand. It was like a light bulb came on in my head once I knew what to look for on a price chart. I have been demo trading for about a year and a half now and after coming across this guy, my trading has improved 10 fold. I can't believe how much easier trading has become. Now most off the time, I can just pick my levels and set a limit order and forget about them. Just itching for the day when I can trade a real account.
What is keeping you from trading a real account?

steveshelby Jan 2, 2010 5:50pm | Post# 38

indicators are like golf clubs. They won't make you any better unless you learn how to use them properly.

I actually use a combination of S&R with indicators. Everyone has to find a method that works for them.
I wonder if Tiger Woods would agree?

steveshelby Jan 2, 2010 5:52pm | Post# 39

Yeah, i Wish i had never found indicators but its fine, it was a learning experience. I guess thats why 90% - 95% of traders lose money because when you do a search on google about learning forex or any other market, your going to get hundreds of links to Systems, Indicators, EA's, Robots..etc. Not much on trading a naked chart. The beauty of trading price action is you can see or plan a trade in advance as a price pattern is panning out.
You may want to post that in the appropriate thread.

steveshelby Jan 2, 2010 5:56pm | Post# 40

Yeah, I Understand. I had the same problem a long time ago, In fact i came full circle because when i very first started trading, i was doing manual analysis without indicators and then when doing more research i came across Stochastics, then MACD, Then Moving Average Crossovers, Then RSI... and on and on and on. I felt like i needed these indicators to justify the trade (you know,.. Overbought/Oversold..etc). Whats funny is that while your looking at what your indicators are saying for a "good" entry, the market gives you a bag of price pattern...
Pi - the movie

There was one part that every trader needs to remember:

"...When your mind becomes obsessed with anything, you will filter everything else out and find that thing everywhere..."

Looking for patterns in the market may seem like the smart thing to do but in the end it is really folly.


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