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PipRippy Feb 26, 2007 11:58am | Post# 1

Intraday Point and Figure Trading
 
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I read Micheal Archers's/James Bickford new book The Forex Chartist Companion:A Visual Approach to Technical Analysis- it's first big section is on Point and Figure charting. This is the most extensive book I have read on all different types of charting in forex trading plus many visual basic code for almost everything for a forex trader.

They reccomend that you buy some graph paper and actually hand draw PF charts in real-time. It is not that hard after some practice but vttrader has 1min PF charts to supplement.

After charting the New York session on Eur/Usd - these PF charts show those breakout during the volatile morning hours. They do not have time constraints to waste time between the major moves. They also show chart formations, especially triangles and box formations, support/resistance, trendlines perfectly. It takes a little time to adjust to the squareness, but after time you get used to the various breakout patterns.

I used to trade with all kinds of indicators, channels, ma's- Know I just find myself staring at a Point and Figure just daring the Euro to try and make some sort of breakout so I can trade it!

The FX market seems to go from short and fast periods of major price breakouts coupled between longer periods of consolidation. I am content with my trading to sit and stare at PF charts all morning trading breakout patterns and using 5min charts for exits.

One major question I have is about Brokers or dealers- this type of trading would be ideal for commission only charges or something similar. These breakouts are anywhers from 5 pips to 30 pips, most are around 10 pips. So making several trades with 3-5 spreads is almost half of your profit.

Does anybody have any reccomendations on brokers that charge commissions only??? I have not ever used anything but CMS and Oanda.

I would also like to hear from anybody else who is trading with point and figure charts and what settings etc.. I have only been using PF for about 2 weeks but I already see a inprovement in my trading.

I use a 2 box 3 reversal setting. I have heard that most traders use 1 box 3 reversal setting but a 2 box is much easier to plot by hand on a graph paper. I am still unsure about what settings will be appropiate at different timeframes.

I though I would post a couple of morning breakout trades. These are only paper traded.

Thanks traders,

Rippy
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loujill Jan 20, 2008 3:51pm | Post# 2

What charting software do you use for FX PandF?
 
Hi,

I like your post very much as I am very intersted in using point and figure charting for forex. In your above examples, what charting program do you use to create you point and figure charts? Is this a paid service or does it come through your broker?

Thanks!

apfx Jan 25, 2008 2:04pm | Post# 3

RE: What charting software do you use for FX PandF?
 
I would recommend : Amibroker

Blaiserboy Sep 12, 2008 8:04am | Post# 4

GBPJPY
 
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Significant support here.....
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adamp Sep 28, 2008 5:21am | Post# 5

I am also interested in using Point And Figure Charts for forex trading.

@Blaiserboy:
Where can I get that indicator from, that you use with Metatrader?

One question I have:
I think there could be a problem, when having an indicator that does not use real time prices but creates the P&F charts from bars.

Imagine the following setup:

  1. Boxsize = 10 Pips (EURUSD)
  2. 3 box reversal
  3. Using on 1 hour chart

Now if there's a 1 hour bar with the following dimension:

  1. Open: 1.5000
  2. Close: 1.5100
  3. High: 1.5150
  4. Low: 1.4950

This would be a 200 pips move from top to bottom, but we have no clue about what exactly happened during this time. The price could have made 10 swings between high and low or only 1 swing. That would have a huge influence to the outlook of the P&F chart.

How could an indicator handle this? Taking the data from the 1min timeframe woul reduce this problem, but not totally.


Rabid Sep 28, 2008 7:04am | Post# 6

Does anybody have any reccomendations on brokers that charge commissions only??? I have not ever used anything but CMS and Oanda.

Use an ECN? Currenex or hotspotfx. I mean there's always going to be a spread w/ true spot, but you can bid within it if you want... so why not get down to brass if you're ready?

vladv Oct 1, 2008 5:27am | Post# 7

Anyone knows a good P&F chart indicator for Metatrader4 platform?

Blaiserboy Oct 2, 2008 3:44am | Post# 8

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Anyone knows a good P&F chart indicator for Metatrader4 platform?
I have used this one for a while, seems to do ok

You will have to adjust the parameters to suit your style
PointAndFigure.mq4

Trader60 Oct 2, 2008 6:08am | Post# 9

I am also interested in using Point And Figure Charts for Dax-scalping/intraday-trading:advice on setting?Thx

adamp Dec 14, 2008 6:06pm | Post# 10

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I am also interested in using Point And Figure Charts for Dax-scalping/intraday-trading:advice on setting?Thx
For DAX (Ger30), I prefer this setup:
Boxsize: 5000
Reversal: 3
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giraia_br Dec 15, 2008 2:48pm | Post# 11

thread is dead?

i am interesd in it.

Dbphonenix, senior member from TraderforWin said that Wycoff did not used volume in intraday trading, only point & figure.

i like to know if there are senior traders here that uses it.

pnf-trader Feb 19, 2009 6:53am | Post# 12

thread is dead?

i am interesd in it.
I am also interested in point and figure trading and would like to exchange informations with other traders that use this kind of charts.

What I am interested most is:

  1. Which configuration do you use, reversal and boxsize - and from which timeframe do you use the bars to generate the chart?
  2. Only long term trading or also scalping?

I don't know why I haven't found much informations about forex trading with these type of charts. For me. Maybe we can reanimate this thread, but I guess point and figure isn't very popular among forex traders?


pnf-trader Feb 20, 2009 4:57pm | Post# 13

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Hm... it seems there are not many point and figure traders out here. Well, I will write some posts from time to time, though. Maybe it's of interest to some of you

Today, I catched a nice move - though I don't know what exactly happend
Have I missed something in the news or why has the Euro rallied against the USD in such a short time?

I put up two pending orders to catch a rise or a fall of EURUSD and one position has been triggered (with slippage, though). The setup I have been using was reversal 3 and box size 10 pips, using high/low values of 5 min bars.

Maybe I closed the position to early, but I closed after a "long tail" pattern which is simply: after a rise of at least 20 boxes, sell at reversal. I sold a little bit too late, but that's still ok.

Something interesting happend to GBPJPY today - see second screenshot:

I put up a chart with 100 pips box size and reveral of 3 in daily chart. And as you can see in the screenshot, today the price has crossed the bearish resistance line. This could be the beginning of a new correction. I will put this pair on my watch list for the next days and weeks.

Have a nice weekend!
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Yuppie Feb 20, 2009 5:37pm | Post# 14

...Maybe we can reanimate this thread, but I guess point and figure isn't very popular among forex traders?...

I'm up for this!!...

I draw PnF by hand with [coloured] pencils and paper by hand. I do this for the EUR/JPY only. But do it 24/5.

I use a 10-pip box and 2-box reversal.

I'd love to post things to revive this thread.

I've searched around the entire internet, but could not find decent PnF indicators for MT4.
pnf-trader, your chart looks interesting. Can you provide the indicators you have on your charts? If they are paid for can you point me to them? PM if you wish. Thanks.

Look forward to PnF discussion. I posted a PnF trade I took a while ago. Will try and dig it out and post it here.


Magnus


EDIT: Found out from you post where you got the indicator pnf-trader.

pnf-trader Feb 20, 2009 7:16pm | Post# 15

I'm up for this!!...

I draw PnF by hand with [coloured] pencils and paper by hand. I do this for the EUR/JPY only. But do it 24/5.

I use a 10-pip box and 2-box reversal.
You draw a 10 pip box and 2 box reversal, 24/5 by hand?
Which timeframe do you use to get the data from and do you use close values or high/low of each closed bar?

I'ld be glad to share experience with other traders using point and figure charts. So far, I am only using a standard 3 box reversal on different pairs. For each pair I trade, I have two charts opened: 3x100 and 3x50 to have a nice market overview. When I look for trading oportunities, I also add a third chart with 3x25, 3x10 or even 3x5.

I prefer trading in the direction of the underlying trend, that means if price is bellow a major bearish resistance line, I am ignoring buy signals and above a bullish support line vice versa.

But for scalping I also trade in the opposite direction because I only try to catch a few pips and don't hold position for more then a few minutes or hours.

FXSurfer Feb 20, 2009 7:38pm | Post# 16

Short TF P&F? Sounds good guys!

Hope to see more,
Brent

giraia_br Feb 20, 2009 9:06pm | Post# 17

i read in another forum, that Wycoff traded intraday without volume, using only PnF.

then i read FTI saying that PnF was only for super long term trade.

again: impossible to came to a conclusion about anything reading opinions from experienced traders

mrgreen Feb 20, 2009 10:43pm | Post# 18

i read in another forum, that Wycoff traded intraday without volume, using only PnF.

then i read FTI saying that PnF was only for super long term trade.

again: impossible to came to a conclusion about anything reading opinions from experienced traders
I have not used the PnF charts but have read that they are best used for long term trading also. Reason being it is so hard to come up w/ a short term (intraday) box count reversal that is consistent.

These are 'old skool' charts - a sort of shorthand method for tracking price while watching the board at your local broker (my thinking on them), which may be why one doesnt see them much in the FX market. I mean, FX markets as we know them are fairly new. All Internet based etc.

billflet Feb 21, 2009 12:19am | Post# 19

I toy with PnF charts once in a while. I have no strategy for using them but filling them in manually doesn't take much time and helps give you a different perspective of the same information. I think the old guys (even older than me)
that created their charts by hand, wether it was PnF or lines or whatever, had a different feel for market rhythm.
A 30 some year veteran told me about his trading group in the early 70's. They would each choose a commodity and make a chart of it throughout the day, then copy and exchange their charts at the end of the day. I can't help but thinking that that had to be a good lesson in price action. Back then it was just the most practical way of doing it, at least for group I just mentioned.

Angler Feb 21, 2009 1:36am | Post# 20

hi. all...


Most times that I have tried P&F charts...I can find a bug in them.....


It should not matter what timeframe you use to plot the charts if the plot is done on a tick by tick basis....with some of them if you use an hour chart you can watch the (say "X") column rise and print a few X's but if in that same hour the price drops back down those "X's" get removed,which is not right...once plotted they should stay...and if the reversal box number is hit then "0's" plotted even in that same hour ...but some just dont do that...Your trade gets triggered then you look later and cant find why you took the trade....The printed "x" or "0" was removed....lol

The only way to rightly adjust sensitivity is to adjust the Box size and reversal box number.

As was mentioned...back in those days...they looked at each price tick and plotted if needed...

I have downloaded from Blaiserboys post so will take a look at that P&F plotting..maybe they have it right...


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