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  • Warren Buffett made 12 predictions about bitcoin, table tennis, and his death -- here's how they turned out

    From businessinsider.com

    The legendary investor Warren Buffett knows better than to make predictions. "We have no idea - and never have had - whether the market is going to go up, down, or sideways in the near- or intermediate term future," he wrote in his 1986 letter to Berkshire Hathaway shareholders. Yet the Sage of Omaha couldn't resist making a few guesses about the future over the years. We've gathered 12 of his most intriguing predictions and assessed their accuracy in the slideshow below: 1. Cryptocurrencies Prediction: "In terms of cryptocurrencies...I can say with almost certainty that they will come to a bad ending," ... (full story)

  • #1
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  • Apr 19, 2019 10:58am Apr 19, 2019 10:58am
As for bitcoin, with all due respect he is wrong.
  • #2
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  • Apr 19, 2019 11:14am Apr 19, 2019 11:14am
Very true. At the time of his prediction, bitcoin traded above $14,000. The cryptocurrency slumped below $4,000 by the end of 2018!
Now is artificially forced to breath above 5000, by the pumping desperate investors consuming real dollars in the hope for a new bubble to recover their losing bids LOL
Member
  • #3
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  • Apr 19, 2019 12:16pm Apr 19, 2019 12:16pm
Quoting Huntpips
As for bitcoin, with all due respect he is wrong.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jayadkisson/2019/02/25/jamie-dimon-shows-why-bitcoin-is-not-the-future/#8a1cd744fbd3
  • #4
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  • Apr 19, 2019 1:14pm Apr 19, 2019 1:14pm
So true about bitcoin
  • #5
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  • Apr 19, 2019 2:07pm Apr 19, 2019 2:07pm
Quoting Jmexpat
So true about bitcoin
Agree 100% bitcoins are crap!
  • #6
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  • Apr 19, 2019 2:56pm Apr 19, 2019 2:56pm
Quoting TudorIoan
Very true. At the time of his prediction, bitcoin traded above $14,000. The cryptocurrency slumped below $4,000 by the end of 2018! Now is artificially forced to breath above 5000, by the pumping desperate investors consuming real dollars in the hope for a new bubble to recover their losing bids LOL
And by 2021, 1 bitcoin will hover round $50,000. Check back the history of bitcoin when 1 bitcoin was just $1 and you will see that is true.
  • #7
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  • Apr 19, 2019 3:17pm Apr 19, 2019 3:17pm
Quoting Huntpips
{quote} And by 2021, 1 bitcoin will hover round $50,000. Check back the history of bitcoin when 1 bitcoin was just $1 and you will see that is true.
There is no Ponzi scheme which can work twice!!!... or it is?!? :-))))))
People are so dumb and greedy they can fkn piss in the wind twice and expect different results :-))))))

The amplitude of the collapse affects irreversibly the bitcoin's credibility, buddy!
All the success gained once is melted away now.
The hype itself distroyed everything about this idea.
I guess it will remain in history as a great business destroyed paradoxically by its own success
Member
  • #8
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  • Apr 19, 2019 3:27pm Apr 19, 2019 3:27pm
The same people that created Fiat monetary policy are the ones behind BTC, dont be deceived by Warren, he wants the crowd not to be involved until the blockchain technology finally go mainstream, after all they need the crowd to be on one side for them to make money.
  • #9
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  • Apr 19, 2019 3:34pm Apr 19, 2019 3:34pm
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} There is no Ponzi scheme which can work twice!!!... or it is?!? :-)))))) People are so dumb and greedy they can fkn piss in the wind twice and expect different results :-)))))) The amplitude of the collapse affects irreversibly the bitcoin's credibility, buddy! All the success gained once is melted away now. The hype itself distroyed everything about this idea. I guess it will remain in history as a great business destroyed paradoxically by its own success
I almost spit out my water! This made me laugh so hard.
  • #10
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  • Apr 19, 2019 4:32pm Apr 19, 2019 4:32pm
Quoting oyaks
The same people that created Fiat monetary policy are the ones behind BTC, dont be deceived by Warren, he wants the crowd not to be involved until the blockchain technology finally go mainstream, after all they need the crowd to be on one side for them to make money.
How can you be so sure the same people that created Fiat monetary policy are the ones behind BTC?
BTW, JMKeynes denied recently any implication :-)))
How can you be so sure what is Warren really after in this game?
How can you be so sure blockchain will ever go main stream? Is just an exhaustive encrypted ledger and is not the single method to assure transparency, safety and the speed of the transactions.

Stop reading conspiracy and crypto propaganda!
You'll feel better
Member
  • #11
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  • Apr 19, 2019 5:54pm Apr 19, 2019 5:54pm
[quote=TudorIoan;12232179]{quote} There is no Ponzi scheme which can work twice!!!... or it is?!? :-)))))) People are so dumb and greedy they can fkn piss in the wind twice and expect different results :-)))))) The amplitude of the collapse affects irreversibly the bitcoin's credibility, buddy! All the success gained once is melted away now. The hype itself distroyed everything about this idea. I guess it will remain in history as a great business destroyed paradoxically by its own success

This made me choke on food while reading it. I fckin love it
I make perfect trades. But terribly manage it
  • #12
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  • Apr 19, 2019 7:45pm Apr 19, 2019 7:45pm
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} There is no Ponzi scheme which can work twice!!!... or it is?!? :-)))))) People are so dumb and greedy they can fkn piss in the wind twice and expect different results :-)))))) The amplitude of the collapse affects irreversibly the bitcoin's credibility, buddy! All the success gained once is melted away now. The hype itself distroyed everything about this idea. I guess it will remain in history as a great business destroyed paradoxically by its own success
Tudor, Seriously, I thought we just trade the trends. When we see trend, we jump on it, or swing it good and get out when it's over. people forget easily! history is rarely reviewed and time heal losers and renew their appetite to gamble...but hey we are traders not gambler, we will take their money. with all due respect, i am watching cryptos like a hawk, current pump not convinced if it make another HH and pulls back good to say Fib. Ret. 50%, I will trade it via spot or CFD, I am not holding any coin, just trading it!
  • #13
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  • Apr 19, 2019 8:47pm Apr 19, 2019 8:47pm
I think bitcoin will make him look silly because it’s a paradaigm shift on money.. something he never saw in his lifetime
  • #14
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  • Apr 19, 2019 11:13pm Apr 19, 2019 11:13pm
Bitcoin is a Marxist dream that became a scammer's dream come true that became a money laundering nightmare.
... and then everyone woke up...
  • #15
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  • Edited Apr 20, 2019 12:52pm Apr 19, 2019 11:44pm | Edited Apr 20, 2019 12:52pm
Quoting danasa
{quote} Tudor, Seriously, I thought we just trade the trends. When we see trend, we jump on it, or swing it good and get out when it's over. people forget easily! history is rarely reviewed and time heal losers and renew their appetite to gamble...but hey we are traders not gambler, we will take their money. with all due respect, i am watching cryptos like a hawk, current pump not convinced if it make another HH and pulls back good to say Fib. Ret. 50%, I will trade it via spot or CFD, I am not holding any coin, just trading it!
The crypto are not any longer tradable assets for me.
Why?
What makes bitcoin and the crypto so special? LOL
The truth is you don't stand a chance if you don't go with the pump'n'dump groups!!!
If you are not inside those groups it's pure gambling for you!
With these groups, you will be among large amounts of people buying bitcoin at the same period of time.
This will pump the price straight up as you plainly see it happening recently.
After the price rises tremendously up because of the pumping, they start selling at the same time, same minute.
If you're not inside the job, you're the patsy!!!
As their profit is the naive people's money!

Bitcoin is known for years for huge unpredictable volatility
And the amplitude of the collapse shows the fact it has no solid economic ground.
It's only some encypted files out of pure electricity.

Good luck, gamblers!
Member
  • #16
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  • Edited Apr 20, 2019 12:06am Apr 19, 2019 11:55pm | Edited Apr 20, 2019 12:06am
Quoting sidhujag
I think bitcoin will make him look silly because it’s a paradaigm shift on money.. something he never saw in his lifetime
You? Again? The same weak arguments?
Bleah, nauseating!
Comparing crypto with the great modern inventions it doesn't add value out of the blue! Yeah, in your dreams!
Not just any shit can generate a "paradaigm" shit!
You stubborn losers are just another bad advertise to bitcoin, you're so pathetic!
You're actually hurt bitcoin with your stupid ambition!
And this is all you've got!
Member
  • #17
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  • Apr 20, 2019 12:21am Apr 20, 2019 12:21am
Quoting Jmexpat
Bitcoin is a Marxist dream that became a scammer's dream come true that became a money laundering nightmare. ... and then everyone woke up...
True.
The hate against the rich, the banks, "the middle man", the authority,... is even older than Marx LOL
Member
  • #18
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  • Apr 20, 2019 2:17am Apr 20, 2019 2:17am
The pros and coins continue, but what will be will be. Please those commenting here should take time to check back the history of what we are discussing. Is like the currency pairs we are all trading. It goes up and down. The same thing is applicable to bitcoin the only problem with bitcoin its volatility. Bitcoin could hit $50,000 today and tomorrow it will be come $10,000. That how it continue until one day 1 bitcoin will be $1,000,000. and it won't stop there, the fluctuation will continue.
  • #19
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  • Edited 7:12am Apr 20, 2019 3:51am | Edited 7:12am
Quoting Huntpips
The pros and coins continue, but what will be will be. Please those commenting here should take time to check back the history of what we are discussing. Is like the currency pairs we are all trading. It goes up and down. The same thing is applicable to bitcoin the only problem with bitcoin its volatility. Bitcoin could hit $50,000 today and tomorrow it will be come $10,000. That how it continue until one day 1 bitcoin will be $1,000,000. and it won't stop there, the fluctuation will continue.
Please!...
People still believe in bitcoin, but your naive approach is disappointing for them!
What you got there as argument is only a Jack and the Beanstalk story!
Don't be such a bad advertise for bitcoin!
Please, give them a chance!
Take care, bro! ...of your real money!
Member
  • #20
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  • Apr 20, 2019 4:08am Apr 20, 2019 4:08am
Bitcoin will hit $100. Gold will hit $2,000. Dollar Index will hit 120. Keep your liquid assets safe in these two asset classes in gloomy future (2022 onward).
  • #21
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  • Apr 20, 2019 5:11am Apr 20, 2019 5:11am
It appears to me that Bitcoin finds its value primarily in decentralization from banks. However, whether centralization is necessarily bad is questionable. I have lost track of the Lightning Network after waiting for its implementation for so long...

So far you guys have only opined about Bitcoin. How about the other predictions? How about the Index Funds? Are they good bets too?
  • #22
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  • Apr 20, 2019 9:44am Apr 20, 2019 9:44am
Quoting moonvalley
It appears to me that Bitcoin finds its value primarily in decentralization from banks. However, whether centralization is necessarily bad is questionable. I have lost track of the Lightning Network after waiting forcould implementation for so long... So far you guys have only opined about Bitcoin. How about the other predictions? How about the Index Funds? Are they good bets too?
You actually expect him to point you in the right direction? Okay if he is feeling generous tell him to expose his proprietary investment system or share his FULL portfolio positions along with the risk and money management plan. Now i will take him serious!
  • #23
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  • Edited 11:29am Apr 20, 2019 10:27am | Edited 11:29am
Quoting moonvalley
It appears to me that Bitcoin finds its value primarily in decentralization from banks. However, whether centralization is necessarily bad is questionable. I have lost track of the Lightning Network after waiting for its implementation for so long... So far you guys have only opined about Bitcoin. How about the other predictions? How about the Index Funds? Are they good bets too?
For God's sake stop it! Decentralization it's the perfect trap for the smart young people!

Tell me why the banks are bad! Come on, say why the banks are bad!
Because the comm.? No, their pachydermatous bonuses are not coming from the transactions costs.
It's the credit and investments. Astonishing bank revenues comes from interests and investments.
1. Because this world doesn't work without credit! Credit is human nature itself!
2. And the creative and hard-working people will always need investments for their new business and inventions.

Therefore people will always want and need to spend money they don't have!
And someone will always be there to offer them what they need

So, again, who do you want to skip? "The middle man", middle-man-who? The Central Bank? The gov ?!?
No!!! Is the the "loan shark" you want to skip!!! There is the money.
And nobody will give you a dime without interest in this world ! (we're not talking friends here, it's business)
If you kill the bank, the gov, ...no matter what you do, the loan shark will still be there!
Rising every time from the ashes like a GOD, believe me!
He is always ambush eveybody. And nobody can get rid of him ever.

On the contrary, some of the central bank clerks are quite smart and they are making efforts to fix the shit the common people left behind. Because the average Joe is stupid, unwise, reckless and greedy!

Cryptocurrency is the century scam.
Perfect for the young dreamers as they most have issues with the authority ...and they are all good with computers, the IT is their trump, the categorical edge against the rest of the society
Easy trap for those smart fellows!
Take it easy, folks!
Member
  • #24
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  • Apr 20, 2019 10:47am Apr 20, 2019 10:47am
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} True. The hate against the rich, the banks, "the middle man", the authority,... is even older than Marx LOL
As you know I'm a fan of Karl Marx so lease show him some respect. After all he was never against the banks except for their usury interest rates. He was never against the rich because they provided employment to the people. On the other hand, as written in Das Kapital, he was totally against the abuse that the workers suffered working in dismal condition for wages that were not enough to feed their families. What he wanted most was for workers to have good working conditions and wages allowing them to live decent lives. After all Karl Marx was as capitalist not a Marxist! (quora.../Why-was-Karl-Marx-not-a-Marxist).
  • #25
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  • Apr 20, 2019 10:50am Apr 20, 2019 10:50am
Quoting Jmexpat
Bitcoin is a Marxist dream that became a scammer's dream come true that became a money laundering nightmare. ... and then everyone woke up...
As stated in my previous post just above please show some respect for Karl Marx!
  • #26
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  • Apr 20, 2019 11:26am Apr 20, 2019 11:26am
Quoting Hutch
{quote} As you know I'm a fan of Karl Marx so lease show him some respect. After all he was never against the banks except for their usury interest rates. He was never against the rich because they provided employment to the people. On the other hand, as written in Das Kapital, he was totally against the abuse that the workers suffered working in dismal condition for wages that were not enough to feed their families. What he wanted most was for workers to have good working conditions and wages allowing them to live decent lives. After all Karl Marx...
Didn't know you are a fan.
I'm not.
Marx wasn't against the banks???
Then he should only claim on sort of syndicalist issues
But no, he was advocating for the overthrow of the class system and the abolition of the private property
Because he mostly wrote about the capitalism it doesn't makes him a capitalist.
And he was definitely against the rich.
Not big deal at all, right?
Member
  • #27
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  • Apr 20, 2019 12:06pm Apr 20, 2019 12:06pm
See you guys sometime by 2021, we will revisit this discuss and see who is right or wrong. I rest my case.
  • #28
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  • Apr 20, 2019 12:35pm Apr 20, 2019 12:35pm
I don't have anything against Ponzi schemes.
But is just that I consider them too risky for those who are not inside the job

Take care, peeps ...of your real money!
Member
  • #29
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  • Apr 20, 2019 1:10pm Apr 20, 2019 1:10pm
Having donated away more than USD46 billions since 2000, Warren Buffett is the most charitable person on the planet. I mean, his investment portfolio is publicly available and you can invest in Berkshire Hathaway anytime. Even if companies and investors are okay with confiscating his wealth, I am not sure if those eToro followers would be too happy.

Since time immemorial people have been debating about the best way to distribute wealth. There is the socialist slogan 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs'. Still, a case may be argued for the reverse: 'to each according to his ability'. For better or worse, my government introduced a minimum-salary law not long ago. We own a small business and my father always complains that it should target big businesses only, as it is wiping out small businesses and forcing many to lose their jobs. I guess our policy is still not 'evolved' enough.

The arguments for the mass adoption of a decentralized cryptocurrency seem to stem from a capitalist logic, if one must choose. Bitcoins can still be borrowed and lent out. The only difference from traditional institutions is that it is 'freer' from state control.
  • #30
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  • Apr 20, 2019 1:17pm Apr 20, 2019 1:17pm
Quoting moonvalley
Having donated away more than USD46 billions since 2000, Warren Buffett is the most charitable person on the planet. I mean, his investment portfolio is publicly available and you can invest in Berkshire Hathaway anytime. Even if companies and investors are okay with confiscating his wealth, I am not sure if those eToro followers would be too happy. Since time immemorial people have been debating about the best way...
Ok. What makes you believe the loan sharks private interest oligarhic money control is much "better" than the central bank higher educated clerk control?
We'll have a monopolistic unregulated financial jungle world. Fancy enough?
Member
  • #31
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  • Apr 20, 2019 1:34pm Apr 20, 2019 1:34pm
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} Didn't know you are a fan. I'm not. Marx wasn't against the banks??? Then he should only claim on sort of syndicalist issues But no, he was advocating for the overthrow of the class system and the abolition of the private property Because he mostly wrote about the capitalism it doesn't makes him a capitalist. And he was definitely against the rich. Not big deal at all, right?
Marx was against usury practiced by some banks. That doesn't make him being against banks. Yes, he was for the overthrow of the class system, aren't you? If you're not your ancestors were. In your country's old Kingdom most of the land was owned by the aristocracy. It wasn't until 1921 that the power of the aristocracy was cut and their ownership of the land was cut from 80% to 15%. Are you telling me that your country should return the land taken from the aristocracy prior to 1921? This would be very generous of you but I'm not convinced that many of your citizenry would agree to this. Karl Marx was never against rich people since his wealth was in the top 5% to 10% of the people of Prussia. He was totally against the conditions the workers were forced to work in and wanted a fair distribution of profit between owners and workers. If all the countries would apply the teaching of Karl Marx there wouldn't be any socialist, capitalist or communist countries. Instead, people would live in free market economies where company owners and workers respect each other. Although society would take care of the most vulnerable people there would be no free lunch for lazy parasites who refuse to work. The result would be an harmonious society with very little poverty. I guess I must keep dreaming!
  • #32
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  • Apr 20, 2019 1:57pm Apr 20, 2019 1:57pm
Quoting TudorIoan
I don't have anything against Ponzi schemes.
I don't have anything against Ponzi schemes as long as I'm the person running it from a country that has no extradition treaty with any country! For example Persian Gulf states like Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, UAE or other countries like Indonesia and Nepal
  • #33
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  • Apr 20, 2019 2:30pm Apr 20, 2019 2:30pm
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} Ok. What makes you believe the loan sharks private interest oligarhic money control is much "better" than the central bank higher educated clerk control? We'll have a monopolistic unregulated financial jungle world. Fancy enough?
I am not an economist, but have you ever come across Adam Smith's Invisible Hand Theory? Competition exists even among loan sharks. Moreover, the rates of loans can be regulated. What is very hard to manipulate is the intrinsic value of a global cryptocurrency, making it impossible for states and fund managers to advance selfish interests, and thus providing a stable and level playing field for everyone.

Bitcoin is new. The most educated people today have different opinions about it. There were rumors that its inventor turned down the Nobel Prize.
  • #34
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  • Apr 20, 2019 5:34pm Apr 20, 2019 5:34pm
I had me some Litecoin and sold as it crested. I prefer Groucho to Karl. I trade - and keep the wheels oiled. Everything has it's time and it's moment. Never assume something will return to the outer edge of an envelope - work the averages and you will be fine my friend.
  • #35
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  • Apr 20, 2019 5:52pm Apr 20, 2019 5:52pm
Gold won’t go above btc face value again I called that before the flippening looked likely... I said once it crossed if btc is for real it’s going to go above and stay above gold because it represents a better form of money.
  • #36
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  • Apr 20, 2019 5:54pm Apr 20, 2019 5:54pm
Quoting moonvalley
{quote} I am not an economist, but have you ever come across Adam Smith's Invisible Hand Theory? Competition exists even among loan sharks. Moreover, the rates of loans can be regulated. What is very hard to manipulate is the intrinsic value of a global cryptocurrency, making it impossible for states and fund managers to advance selfish interests, and thus providing a stable and level playing field for everyone. Bitcoin is new. The most educated people today have different opinions about it. There were rumors that its inventor turned down the Nobel...
Likely satoshi did get one for his work on ideal money. Something everyone who doesn’t understand money and how it relates to crypto should read. It builds on theories of smith and Hayek
  • #37
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  • Apr 20, 2019 9:27pm Apr 20, 2019 9:27pm
Quoting sidhujag
Gold won’t go above btc face value again I called that before the flippening looked likely... I said once it crossed if btc is for real it’s going to go above and stay above gold because it represents a better form of money.
Gold is backed by supernova and is a rare physical metal. Bitcoin is backed by promise of a higher price which is main trait of any ponzi scheme.
  • #38
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  • Apr 20, 2019 10:47pm Apr 20, 2019 10:47pm
Quoting Hutch
{quote} Marx was against usury practiced by some banks. That doesn't make him being against banks. Yes, he was for the overthrow of the class system, aren't you? If you're not your ancestors were. In your country's old Kingdom most of the land was owned by the aristocracy. It wasn't until 1921 that the power of the aristocracy was cut and their ownership of the land was cut from 80% to 15%. Are you telling me that your country should return the land taken from the aristocracy prior to 1921? This would be very generous of you but I'm not convinced...
So right. Marx ideology was indeed a good one. But it had to be what it is today right. Pay up bills, your house and food.
  • #39
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  • Apr 21, 2019 5:57am Apr 21, 2019 5:57am
Quoting moonvalley
{quote}There were rumors that its inventor turned down the Nobel Prize
If the bitcoin inventor turned down the Nobel Prize it's probably because of the 21 million bitcoins to be mined he kept the first million for himself so he's already very wealthy and doesn't need the publicity.
  • #40
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  • Apr 21, 2019 6:10am Apr 21, 2019 6:10am
Quoting Nabz
{quote} Gold is backed by supernova and is a rare physical metal. Bitcoin is backed by promise of a higher price which is main trait of any ponzi scheme.
Moreover gold is physical so you can touch it. Bitcoins are only a bunch of electrons so you cannot touch them or use them for anything … useless crap.
  • #41
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  • Apr 21, 2019 9:54am Apr 21, 2019 9:54am
Quoting moonvalley
{quote} I am not an economist, but have you ever come across Adam Smith's Invisible Hand Theory? Competition exists even among loan sharks. Moreover, the rates of loans can be regulated. What is very hard to manipulate is the intrinsic value of a global cryptocurrency, making it impossible for states and fund managers to advance selfish interests, and thus providing a stable and level playing field for everyone. Bitcoin is new. The most educated people today have different opinions about it. There were rumors that its inventor turned down the Nobel...
Of course, every joker here knows about the Adam Smith's theory.
The invisible hand is about demand and supply which is supposed to regulate ...almost everything.
A major fault though:
Anonymous environment will create monopolistic oligarchy. Not funny.

That's why the monetary policy was invented, as a regulator mitigating the booms and the crashes.
Competition doesn't solve everything ...ask our socialist friend Hutch here

1. History shows the monopol keeps common people in terrible misery, while the oligarchs thrive.
Same old story. The human kind will be sent back as it was before Keynes and Hayek.
This is something the invisible hand can't ...handle
Nobody wants to go back there!

2. Do you really think the rates of loans can be regulated just because you guineas think the intrinsec value of the crypto is a tabu? Nice! This is a new fallacy, this is a new sophism! Thank you.
Consider this:
- every asset has also an intrinsic value (gold, commodities, currencies, equities, stocks, bonds...)
- no intrinsic value can be manipulated, true;
- but if an asset doesn't interplays with the real market, it stays as nothing but utopic;
- any asset which interplays with the real market becomes susceptible to manipulation
__________
QED: there is no absolute intrinsic value if the asset interplays with the real market, or it's an utopic asset!

That's why gold failed as a cornerstone! Nothing can stay as intrinsic value forever.
Every asset becomes tradable sooner or later. Having relative value to the other market assets... if free market

Intrinsic value of a market asset is a trap. It doesn't exist in the real life, real economy.

Satoshi turned down the Nobel?!?
OMFG this is something real pathetic,...kind of whishful thinking for the cult believers ...fake moral lift stuff ...typically to any morbid cult ...so sad!
Member
  • #42
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  • Apr 21, 2019 10:01am Apr 21, 2019 10:01am
Quoting sidhujag
{quote} Likely satoshi did get one for his work on ideal money. Something everyone who doesn’t understand money and how it relates to crypto should read. It builds on theories of smith and Hayek
Do you understand money? Do you understand money??? STFU!
Member
  • #43
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  • Apr 21, 2019 10:04am Apr 21, 2019 10:04am
Quoting Nabz
{quote} Gold is backed by supernova and is a rare physical metal. Bitcoin is backed by promise of a higher price which is main trait of any ponzi scheme.
Took me more than 100 words to say that. Thanks
Member
  • #44
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  • Apr 21, 2019 10:13am Apr 21, 2019 10:13am
Quoting Hutch
{quote} I don't have anything against Ponzi schemes as long as I'm the person running it from a country that has no extradition treaty with any country! For example Persian Gulf states like Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, UAE or other countries like Indonesia and Nepal
Dear Hutch, do you know who is the biggest crypto miner in the world?
Yes. China is.... you thought Russia, nope...
Do you know the crypto is outlaw in China?... only for the people, not for the gov secret services
What does that say to you? Come on, be honest! What does that say to you???

China say: 'Let them guineas have it! We will sell it all along with the US assets we own and collapse the world's economy. And guess who will reappear first to save the day?! Our Motherland China! "

As moonvalley fellow here asked me rhetorically if I know Adam Smith I'll ask you, do you know Sun Tzu?
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  • #45
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  • Apr 21, 2019 10:26am Apr 21, 2019 10:26am
Quoting Lamplighter
I had me some Litecoin and sold as it crested. I prefer Groucho to Karl. I trade - and keep the wheels oiled. Everything has it's time and it's moment. Never assume something will return to the outer edge of an envelope - work the averages and you will be fine my friend.
You're definitely the best, Groucho !
We're supposed to be traders after all.
Attached Image
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  • #46
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  • Apr 21, 2019 11:14am Apr 21, 2019 11:14am
Quoting Nabz
{quote} Gold is backed by supernova and is a rare physical metal. Bitcoin is backed by promise of a higher price which is main trait of any ponzi scheme.
Bitcoin is backed by proof of work same as gold. Bitcoin is actually provable proof where gold isn’t. An asteroid can have a bunch of gold on it and thus doesn’t offer intrinsic value because at any moment the base can be devalued by supply
  • #47
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  • Apr 21, 2019 11:15am Apr 21, 2019 11:15am
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} Do you understand money? Do you understand money??? STFU!
The term is subjective but sov moe uoa can be applied universally.
  • #48
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  • Apr 21, 2019 12:41pm Apr 21, 2019 12:41pm
Quoting sidhujag
{quote} The term is subjective but sov moe uoa can be applied universally.
Empty words dude!
Because the bitcoin is nothing superior as Store of Value over the fiat.
Because crypto doesn't have more of intrinsec value than fiat.
1. As long as crypto is a dream may appear it has independent value..
2. ..but as long as it will be part of real economy it will have no intrinsic value anymore! Dig ??????????????????
I'm tired to repeat this for dummies!

No, crypto it isn't SoV. Is not just because you say so?!?!? And you wish so! And you dream so!
Narrow arguments anyway. You waste people's time with very weak arguments, I'm sorry!
SoV is no plus-argument. MoE and UoA we already have with fiat.
Member
  • #49
  • Quote
  • Apr 21, 2019 1:40pm Apr 21, 2019 1:40pm
Yes fiat may have those 2 which is why gold isn’t used as money any more. Bitcoin is designed with sov in mind. It’s a settlement system by design which means store of value. Other systems like the one I made called zdag are meant to be transactional processors on top of a settlement system. The work done to preserve these settlements can not be undone by anybody and can hold itself in court making legal issues resolvable with a click of a button instead of long analysis and lawyer fees with ultimately subjective decisions.

The Instrinsic value of bitcoin is the value of the work done to secure the ledger which is around $4000usd atm and which is why it isn’t falling below it
  • #50
  • Quote
  • Edited 2:32am Apr 22, 2019 2:04am | Edited 2:32am
Quoting sidhujag
Yes fiat may have those 2 which is why gold isn’t used as money any more. Bitcoin is designed with sov in mind. It’s a settlement system by design which means store of value. Other systems like the one I made called zdag are meant to be transactional processors on top of a settlement system. The work done to preserve these settlements can not be undone by anybody and can hold itself in court making legal issues resolvable with a click of a button instead of long analysis and lawyer fees with ultimately subjective decisions. The Instrinsic value...
OMG, $4000, ...so the US dollar is the cornerstone!
Just kidding, this notion doesn't exist!

Dude, if today a bull penis worth a nerd penis
but tomorrow, due to the penury of the bulls, a bull penis will worth 1000 nerd penises means that every asset has a market quotation related to other assets. Dig?
You can call the nerd penis "the cornerstone", "the mother of invention", " the centre of Universe", "the heaven on earth" ...as long as free world, free market, assets will be assigned a market quotation ONE related to EACH OTHER.
In the real free world, of course.

There is no intrinsic value of anything in the moment they enter the REAL market!
It doesn't matter what settlement sys you desingn and what you have in mind, what you dreamed last night, what you eat, what your whishful thinking is!
The first contact with the real market will assign a market quotation to it, otherwise your "thing" is outside the REAL market, the market of free trade, free business!
Otherwise is just a toy coin, inside-corporation-coin, video-game-coin!

And here's a secret for you. What you wish concerning SoV, it doesn't matter
All you have there is an encrypted fallacy!
...and a little more of my respect, because you used better arguments this time
Member
  • #51
  • Quote
  • Apr 22, 2019 7:36am Apr 22, 2019 7:36am
Quoting sidhujag
{quote} Bitcoin is backed by proof of work same as gold. Bitcoin is actually provable proof where gold isn’t. An asteroid can have a bunch of gold on it and thus doesn’t offer intrinsic value because at any moment the base can be devalued by supply
There is something called a "Periodic Table" and gold is one of the 118 elements on that table. Elements are only added to the periodic table when they are discovered. Bitcoin was the first so called crypto currency and according to the coinrivet web site there are now over 2,500 crypto currencies. My belief is that all of them were "invented" by someone who wanted to get rich quickly by selling them to unsuspecting investors. I also believe in proof. It has been proven that gold was widely used as currency over 3,500 years ago. As of today there is no proof that any crypto currency is widely used as a currency. Of course I could be wrong. If I'm wrong please tell us which country is primarily using any of the 2,500 crypto currencies as a mode of payment or as a store of value on the same basis as gold?
  • #52
  • Quote
  • Apr 22, 2019 8:36am Apr 22, 2019 8:36am
Quoting Hutch
{quote} There is something called a "Periodic Table" and gold is one of the 118 elements on that table. Elements are only added to the periodic table when they are discovered. Bitcoin was the first so called crypto currency and according to the coinrivet web site there are now over 2,500 crypto currencies. My belief is that all of them were "invented" by someone who wanted to get rich quickly by selling them to unsuspecting investors. I also believe in proof. It has been proven that gold was widely used as currency over 3,500...
Crypto is a Trojan Horse for those economies who use it.
China only produce it ...I'd recommend no gift from the Greeks ..and now the Chinese LOL

I don't mind people to get rich quickly... but Ponzi schemes are only for few to get rich and he rest to be ruined
Member
  • #53
  • Quote
  • Apr 22, 2019 3:01pm Apr 22, 2019 3:01pm
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} Of course, every joker here knows about the Adam Smith's theory. The invisible hand is about demand and supply which is supposed to regulate ...almost everything. A major fault though: Anonymous environment will create monopolistic oligarchy. Not funny. That's why the monetary policy was invented, as a regulator mitigating the booms and the crashes. Competition doesn't solve everything ...ask our socialist friend Hutch here 1. History shows the monopol keeps common people in terrible misery, while the oligarchs thrive. Same old story....
Gold has not been a complete failure. Its market capitalization is in fact bigger than those of many fiat currencies, just perhaps not as big as USD. If one day WW3 is to break out, perhaps USD will lose some of its value to Gold. I think then even people in China will start buying more gold.

There is a reason why Gold is traded, and there is a reason why Bitcoin is often compared to Gold. Software is also a bunch of electrons, but it is enough to create some of the richest men over the years. We live in a digital age. The lack of a physical backing may well translate into the ideals of a perfect money. In an age when 'the winner takes all', the proliferation of cryptos may ironically thrust the position of the top crypto during the nascent stage. Should the 'intrinsic value' of Bitcoin matches a small fraction of Gold, it is still a good call to buy it now.

Currency devaluation has been a popular international sport lately. Perhaps President Trump should advocate Bitcoin instead of labelling others as currency manipulators.

I am not saying I am a proponent of Bitcoin. I am just not so sure.
  • #54
  • Quote
  • Apr 22, 2019 5:51pm Apr 22, 2019 5:51pm
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} OMG, $4000, ...so the US dollar is the cornerstone! Just kidding, this notion doesn't exist! Dude, if today a bull penis worth a nerd penis but tomorrow, due to the penury of the bulls, a bull penis will worth 1000 nerd penises means that every asset has a market quotation related to other assets. Dig? You can call the nerd penis "the cornerstone", "the mother of invention", " the centre of Universe", "the heaven on earth" ...as long as free world, free market, assets will be assigned a market...
That?s called a barter system and it?s how money started based on work.. how many haircuts for stones, how many cuts for lettuce. How many lettuce for stones.

Anyways off topic now.. yes face value price surpassing gold had real effects even though based on market cap it had none.
  • #55
  • Quote
  • Apr 22, 2019 5:54pm Apr 22, 2019 5:54pm
Quoting Hutch
{quote} There is something called a "Periodic Table" and gold is one of the 118 elements on that table. Elements are only added to the periodic table when they are discovered. Bitcoin was the first so called crypto currency and according to the coinrivet web site there are now over 2,500 crypto currencies. My belief is that all of them were "invented" by someone who wanted to get rich quickly by selling them to unsuspecting investors. I also believe in proof. It has been proven that gold was widely used as currency over 3,500...
You can pay tax in crypto now.. that was the bar for money. Aslong as you can pay your tax with it shit gets real. Gold being based on periodic table is its problems.. you don?t know how rare it actually is.. just perceived to be. This is why there is 21 million btc max supply based on perceived amount of gold in world mined+unmined
  • #56
  • Quote
  • Apr 22, 2019 5:57pm Apr 22, 2019 5:57pm
When countries were first drawn up there was no value in the money they created. It was based on whoever decided to live there to give it value based on barter.. my point is yes the 2500 coins most of them are fake but some have value based on their utility.. a lot more than simple perception that existing money is based on. Credit expansion is what is backing today?s money.. I?d take a shitcoin any day of the week over that aslong as it?s secure (merge mined).
  • #57
  • Quote
  • Apr 23, 2019 12:58am Apr 23, 2019 12:58am
Quoting sidhujag
{quote} That?s called a barter system and it?s how money started based on work.. how many haircuts for stones, how many cuts for lettuce. How many lettuce for stones. Anyways off topic now.. yes face value price surpassing gold had real effects even though based on market cap it had none.
Quoting moonvalley
{quote} Gold has not been a complete failure. Its market capitalization is in fact bigger than those of many fiat currencies, just perhaps not as big as USD. If one day WW3 is to break out, perhaps USD will lose some of its value to Gold. I think then even people in China will start buying more gold. There is a reason why Gold is traded, and there is a reason why Bitcoin is often compared to Gold. Software is also a bunch of electrons, but it is enough to create some of the richest men over the years. <i><span style="color:Black">We live in a digital...
Ranting using fancy cliches you euphorically swallowed from the cryptomaniacs, doesn't change how the market works!
You full none!
There's no intrisic value in the free market! It doesn't exist! Period.
...or you perpetuate your fallacy because you can't admit that your business is based on something deeply fake.
Crypto is a private business and nothing more. Good luck with it!
Member
  • #58
  • Quote
  • Apr 23, 2019 1:56am Apr 23, 2019 1:56am
You don't understand market, you don't understand money, you don't understand how value is created.

You only continuously swallow what cryptomaniacs feed you.
Because crypto it's new, fancy, sophisticated, exhaustive, vengeful, superior ...bullshit!

No wonder you pulled something out from pure electricity and pretend you will rule the world now! ROTF

The encryption fulled your mind! Sophistication is attractive ...for stups!
You think you are very special because your toy is sophisticated and gives you the impression you oversmart over the rest of the world
You guys are alittle sick after all, sorry

Here's sample of your thinking, suppose there is intrinsic value (!!!):
Some muchacho say that MXN has intrinsic value, not bitcoin.
Wooow! Why, muchacho? Well, because every goddamn currency depends on it! Ta-daaa!
And how is that, muchacho? Simple.
1MXN = 0.53 USD = 0.41 GBP = 0.38 AUD = 4.75 JPY = 0.000042 troy gold = 0.000011 BTC............... so on
Bam!
So our muchacho still believes the MXN is the cornerstone of global economy.
It must be true if he say so. And he can prove it!!!
Here: any change in the global economy it can be seen in the MXN market quotation!!! Obviously!

But our little poor muchacho got indoctrinated by the peso-maniacs!

QED - If ever hit the main stream, the real market, the Bitcoin is a dangerous fallacy
Is nothing more then a tradable asset for the electric power used by the miners!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG, ROTF
Member
  • #59
  • Quote
  • Apr 23, 2019 3:14am Apr 23, 2019 3:14am
Quoting TudorIoan
You don't understand market, you don't understand money, you don't understand how value is created. You only continuously swallow what cryptomaniacs feed you. Because crypto it's new, fancy, sophisticated, exhaustive, vengeful, superior ...bullshit! No wonder you pulled something out from pure electricity and pretend you will rule the world now! ROTF The encryption fulled your mind! Sophistication is attractive ...for stups! You think you are very special because your toy is sophisticated and gives you the impression you oversmart...
Why do you lose time with trash ? Better spend your time playing a game or watching a porn, it is more worth than a discussion with noobs who think about themselves they are smart traders.

Every pathetic noob who learn to draw a trendline (ofc a wrong one) , start to think he is a competitor to Warren Buffet. Pfua ..

Decat sa-ti fi pierdut timpul raspunzand la sparti, mai bine citeai cancan.ro .
Money moves the market, not an indicator.
  • #60
  • Quote
  • Apr 23, 2019 3:18am Apr 23, 2019 3:18am
Quoting andoseg2
{quote} Why do you lose time with trash ? Better spend your time playing a game or watching a porn, it is more worth than a discussion with noobs who think about themselves they are smart traders. Every pathetic noob who learn to draw a trendline (ofc a wrong one) , start to think he is a competitor to Warren Buffet. Pfua .. Decat sa-ti fi pierdut timpul raspunzand la sparti, mai bine citeai cancan.ro .
good advice, buddy!
But I just can't stand stupidity and the crooks! It's kind of a gag reflex!
They makes me vomit!
But I think is much more wiser for me to take your advice! ...even porn is much better than crypto shit
...or crypto is extremely kinky for some maniacs here ?!?!?!?
Member
  • #61
  • Quote
  • Apr 23, 2019 4:26am Apr 23, 2019 4:26am
It is the mark of an educated man to refrain from character assassination during a discussion. Chill out. You are shorting Bitcoin or what?

I have great respect for Warren Buffett. He is truly a visionary and a philanthropist. I look up to him, and would love to emulate him, instead of looking down on him like some. There are never short of enthusiastic thieves who question why he can enjoy a Bridge game every night while they must toil so hard. Judging by their understanding of fairness, I can't help but wonder if they passed their exams honestly.

Time will tell. For one thing, Bitcoin does not represent the whole world. It may well be just an aberration.
  • #62
  • Quote
  • Apr 23, 2019 10:24am Apr 23, 2019 10:24am
Quoting TudorIoan
You don't understand market, you don't understand money, you don't understand how value is created. You only continuously swallow what cryptomaniacs feed you. Because crypto it's new, fancy, sophisticated, exhaustive, vengeful, superior ...bullshit! No wonder you pulled something out from pure electricity and pretend you will rule the world now! ROTF The encryption fulled your mind! Sophistication is attractive ...for stups! You think you are very special because your toy is sophisticated and gives you the impression you oversmart...
Mxn can never be the backbone because it doesn’t have military strength to back up its ponzi fiat scam like us did and also doesn’t have plaza accord backing it up.

It also doesn’t have double spend protection so competitors are not going to rely on it(they have already seen the movie with usd and it’s not good).
  • #63
  • Quote
  • Apr 23, 2019 11:15am Apr 23, 2019 11:15am
Quoting sidhujag
{quote} Mxn can never be the backbone because it doesn’t have military strength to back up its ponzi fiat scam like us did and also doesn’t have plaza accord backing it up. It also doesn’t have double spend protection so competitors are not going to rely on it(they have already seen the movie with usd and it’s not good).
:-))))))))))) see, you don't get anything from what happens on this world Everything moves because MXN moves one way or another. You can easily check the chart
Member
  • #64
  • Quote
  • Apr 23, 2019 11:43am Apr 23, 2019 11:43am
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} :-))))))))))) see, you don't get anything from what happens on this world Everything moves because MXN moves one way or another. You can easily check the chart
That’s because of liquidity, correlation and arbritrage nothing whatsoever to do with what money is or was it ever will be. You have to get to the basics to really understand what this is all about. Do some basic research on how our debt system works I suggest reading Chris martensons crash course it’s good. Then read nash ideal money and related works. After that there are some nice posts by nick szabo, the one about Malthusian events was pretty good and can be related to what’s happening.
  • #65
  • Quote
  • Apr 23, 2019 12:25pm Apr 23, 2019 12:25pm
Quoting sidhujag
{quote} That’s because of liquidity, correlation and arbritrage nothing whatsoever to do with what money is or was it ever will be. You have to get to the basics to really understand what this is all about. Do some basic research on how our debt system works I suggest reading Chris martensons crash course it’s good. Then read nash ideal money and related works. After that there are some nice posts by nick szabo, the one about Malthusian events was pretty good and can be related to what’s happening.
Forget it. All those you mentioned are liars.
They just want to make you believe in crypto.
Stop reading crooks, and stop being one of them!
You'll feel better one day, after some rehab time
Member
  • #66
  • Quote
  • Apr 23, 2019 1:03pm Apr 23, 2019 1:03pm
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} Forget it. All those you mentioned are liars. They just want to make you believe in crypto. Stop reading crooks, and stop being one of them! You'll feel better one day, after some rehab time
I don’t think you know what your talking about.. those people are all considered high iq innovators. Nash work is cornerstone of modern economics and Probably one of the smartest people the lived in modern age.
  • #67
  • Quote
  • Apr 23, 2019 1:15pm Apr 23, 2019 1:15pm
Quoting sidhujag
{quote} I don’t think you know what your talking about.. those people are all considered high iq innovators. Nash work is cornerstone of modern economics and Probably one of the smartest people the lived in modern age.
Dude, tell your guy, yes, the guy who manipulates you on the private chat, to stick his IQ puppets up to his ass and sell all your crypto now, and be a free man!

Hehehe, ok, just kidding...
Here's serious advice: Buy MXN! This is the best thing to do for the people with your IQ

BTW, read Nouriel Roubini, he is a greeeat international modern economist and he has good predictions in CV
Member
  • #68
  • Quote
  • Apr 23, 2019 2:02pm Apr 23, 2019 2:02pm
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} Dude, tell your guy, yes, the guy who manipulates you on the private chat, to stick his IQ puppets up to his ass and sell all your crypto now, and be a free man! Hehehe, ok, just kidding... Here's serious advice: Buy MXN! This is the best thing to do for the people with your IQ BTW, read Nouriel Roubini, he is a greeeat international modern economist and he has good predictions in CV
He seems like he has an agenda, unlike Nash who wanted to actually change the world.. I believe his IQ must have been atleast a sigma higher than Roubini's. I'll roll the dice on the guy who invented modern economics.
  • #69
  • Quote
  • Apr 23, 2019 2:20pm Apr 23, 2019 2:20pm
Quoting sidhujag
{quote} He seems like he has an agenda, unlike Nash who wanted to actually change the world.. I believe his IQ must have been atleast a sigma higher than Roubini's. I'll roll the dice on the guy who invented modern economics.
Don't be naive, Nash was a dreamer and became a better actor only when they recruited him for their agenda
Member
  • #72
  • Quote
  • Apr 23, 2019 4:12pm Apr 23, 2019 4:12pm
Quoting TudorIoan
Hidden
You can say it all you want but market keeps proving you wrong like your April fools day post thinking someone was buying up btc over $5k to dump on people on april1 Lol the market has already begun to shift over some either got lucky or were smart enough to see this unfold before it began.
  • #74
  • Quote
  • Apr 24, 2019 1:57am Apr 24, 2019 1:57am
Quoting TudorIoan
Hidden
Just because a troll on the internet calls it a scam doesn’t change the fact that it is a new better form of money that the market will slowly but surely shift away from. Take a look at any market in history (intervention always causes it to fail). This is what solving the generals problem can do if applied to money.. get you closer to an ideal form.. not perfect but more ideal. That trumps everything else. Debt and capital markets will be restructured to follow the new ways of the base money. Exters pyramid will now focus on crypto as the sole truth.
  • #75
  • Quote
  • Apr 24, 2019 1:59am Apr 24, 2019 1:59am
Most recently usd jpy Chf eur all had pegs that were broken and have caused massive issues creating more intervention via printing. The sole purpose of central banks is to intervene.. and thus it’s a bit better than gold because it gives moe and uoa but still kicks the cAn and is a hack on fixing the problem which crypto gets us farther along with.
  • #79
  • Quote
  • Apr 24, 2019 9:50am Apr 24, 2019 9:50am
Quoting TudorIoan
Hidden
You are clueless anytime there is a third party so called experts as gatekeepers to monetary expansion or contraction it’s doomed to fail due to corruption and collusion. Read ideal money you will learn a thing or two. This is exactly why btc was made and why it is a better form of money. All these other so called smart people shouting it’s false may not see the big picture. Nash was the king of economics and applied to monetary theory there really were very few that can stand up and say his information was off base like you are saying.
  • #80
  • Quote
  • Apr 25, 2019 4:07am Apr 25, 2019 4:07am
Quoting sidhujag
{quote} You can pay tax in crypto now.. that was the bar for money. Aslong as you can pay your tax with it shit gets real. Gold being based on periodic table is its problems.. you don?t know how rare it actually is.. just perceived to be. This is why there is 21 million btc max supply based on perceived amount of gold in world mined+unmined
Since you are Canadian could you please provide us with the link to the Canadian gov tax web site stating that you can pay your taxes using crypto currencies and which one of the 2,500 they accept?
  • #81
  • Quote
  • Apr 25, 2019 4:32am Apr 25, 2019 4:32am
I quit, this Sid guy say the Noble Prize laureates got it wrong about bitcoin.
And he pretend the people who criticize bitcoin are not aware of "the reality"
What can we say more to a person like this?!
He is obviously disqualifying himself for any reasonable discussion
Member
  • #82
  • Quote
  • Apr 25, 2019 8:47am Apr 25, 2019 8:47am
Quoting TudorIoan
I quit, this Sid guy say the Noble Prize laureates got it wrong about bitcoin. And he pretend the people who criticize bitcoin are not aware of "the reality" What can we say more to a person like this?! He is obviously disqualifying himself for any reasonable discussion
You are too harsh on Sid. Please let him believe in his delusion. One day he will wake up and see the light.
  • #83
  • Quote
  • Apr 25, 2019 9:08am Apr 25, 2019 9:08am
Quoting Hutch
{quote} You are too harsh on Sid. Please let him believe in his delusion. One day he will wake up and see the light.
Well, those radical guys tend to take it personally and they never stop until they lose it all
Member
  • #84
  • Quote
  • Apr 25, 2019 10:20am Apr 25, 2019 10:20am
Quoting Hutch
{quote} Since you are Canadian could you please provide us with the link to the Canadian gov tax web site stating that you can pay your taxes using crypto currencies and which one of the 2,500 they accept?
https://www.coindesk.com/canadian-mu...y-tax-payments
Happening all over
  • #85
  • Quote
  • Apr 25, 2019 10:22am Apr 25, 2019 10:22am
Quoting TudorIoan
I quit, this Sid guy say the Noble Prize laureates got it wrong about bitcoin. And he pretend the people who criticize bitcoin are not aware of "the reality" What can we say more to a person like this?! He is obviously disqualifying himself for any reasonable discussion
They did get it wrong about internet why not bitcoin?
  • #88
  • Quote
  • Apr 25, 2019 6:31pm Apr 25, 2019 6:31pm
Quoting sidhujag
{quote} https://www.coindesk.com/canadian-mu...y-tax-payments Happening all over
Innisfil, a town of 36,000 people, is going to conduct a 1 year trial only for the payment of property taxes.
I don't consider that, as you said: "Happening all over"!!!
  • #89
  • Quote
  • Apr 25, 2019 11:26pm Apr 25, 2019 11:26pm
You asked for Canada only.. a google search can give you the answer. Now you can also use blockchain as an officials means for investigation in court of law in many countries as well. If you don’t see it unfolding infront of your eyes I don’t know what to tell you. And no you cannot have blockchain tech without a currency behind it and yes it has to be a public currency not private permissioned garbage
  • #91
  • Quote
  • Apr 26, 2019 9:38am Apr 26, 2019 9:38am
Quoting sidhujag
You asked for Canada only.. a google search can give you the answer. Now you can also use blockchain as an officials means for investigation in court of law in many countries as well. If you don’t see it unfolding infront of your eyes I don’t know what to tell you. And no you cannot have blockchain tech without a currency behind it and yes it has to be a public currency not private permissioned garbage
I did look and I found this article:

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/041515/countries-where-bitcoin-legal-illegal.asp

The bottom line is that bitcoins are not legal tenders in any country since they are considered a commodity.
  • #92
  • Quote
  • Apr 26, 2019 3:37pm Apr 26, 2019 3:37pm
Ohio also allowed to pay tax.. sooner or later they all will.. and when fungibility is added it will be singularity moment when govt loses control and all these so cold experts have their Paul Kruger moments
  • #93
  • Quote
  • Apr 26, 2019 8:48pm Apr 26, 2019 8:48pm
Quoting sidhujag
Ohio also allowed to pay tax.. sooner or later they all will.. and when fungibility is added it will be singularity moment when govt loses control and all these so cold experts have their Paul Kruger moments
Fungibility today applies only to something that is tangible i.e. you can see it. Maybe someday it will apply to intangible crypto currencies but I very much doubt it. This is because no gov will ever agree to lose control of their power to print money and accept bitcoins or any of their 2,500 brothers as legal tender.
  • #94
  • Quote
  • Apr 26, 2019 9:47pm Apr 26, 2019 9:47pm
Quoting Hutch
{quote} Fungibility today applies only to something that is tangible i.e. you can see it. Maybe someday it will apply to intangible crypto currencies but I very much doubt it. This is because no gov will ever agree to lose control of their power to print money and accept bitcoins or any of their 2,500 brothers as legal tender.
You didn’t understand the concept of fungibility when it comes to money. Cash is fungible well kinda because it is serialized it can be blacklisted but overall it’s fungible. Btc is also serialized through utxo dB and because of this it’s a haven for governmental control.. in current iteration it’s a super tool for governments to track and manage people when it comes to taxes since all is auditable. With fungible coins (adding privacy) you lose the ability to track and blacklist and that’s a fundamental component to good money.

Governments will have no choice to comply they will fight I’m sure and there will likely be dark days but because of jurisdication arbritrage governments that don’t comply will simply be phased out economically and the herd effect will settle in. We are talking about humans after all running these central banks.
  • #95
  • Quote
  • Apr 26, 2019 10:30pm Apr 26, 2019 10:30pm
Quoting sidhujag
{quote} You didn’t understand the concept of fungibility when it comes to money. Cash is fungible well kinda because it is serialized it can be blacklisted but overall it’s fungible. Btc is also serialized through utxo dB and because of this it’s a haven for governmental control.. in current iteration it’s a super tool for governments to track and manage people when it comes to taxes since all is auditable. With fungible coins (adding privacy) you lose the ability to track and blacklist and that’s a fundamental component to good money. Governments...
Because bitcoins are outside the control of gov they will never accept it. The day one gov accepts bitcoins as their official currency will both be dead. What I see in the future is that gov will make their own crypto currencies but they will be just as bad as the actual fiat currencies as they will issue them as they please.
  • #96
  • Quote
  • Apr 27, 2019 12:16am Apr 27, 2019 12:16am
Quoting Hutch
{quote} Because bitcoins are outside the control of gov they will never accept it. The day one gov accepts bitcoins as their official currency will both be dead. What I see in the future is that gov will make their own crypto currencies but they will be just as bad as the actual fiat currencies as they will issue them as they please.
Yes and no. Once one country gets close to doing it others will follow as a herd. Jurisdiction arb will make others jump like globalization led people to use usd to back them.

Stable coins are what govts want now and yes they won’t really be much better.

Ultimately it’s what the people and market wants. Better tech better money and efficiency always wins. Will it happen in our lifetime? I’m betting yes you can bet no and take that risk. You must also think economy is healthy and bailout was a normal intervention.

In the end any form of intervention will have consequences and the current debt based system is based on intervention. This is why you have Malthusian events because people understand that fiat is just a ponzi and house of cards so when shtf they stack up in what the lowest denomintor is on exters pyramid. Get and hold the base can’t go wrong with it. Crypto is set to replace the base with a new one if you read between the lines. No form of jneterventiin will stop it according to ideal money by the father of modern economics. The asymptotically more ideal form will win sooner or later and then the rest is statistics and speculation in how long. We just left a Malthusian event and now I think we hit a supercycle for a final blow. It isn’t a normal period in our lifecycle we should have been back to surplus’s gdp and health metrics but we aren’t because we intervened to a point the house of cards can’t sustajn itself. No more extra debt can soak up the consumption the velocity isn’t there m2 has peaked and nothing is getting us back there unless we drop into depression and innovate our way out.. that’s how the cycle has always played out and it will again.
  • #97
  • Quote
  • Apr 27, 2019 5:04am Apr 27, 2019 5:04am
Quoting sidhujag
{quote} Yes and no. Once one country gets close to doing it others will follow as a herd. Jurisdiction arb will make others jump like globalization led people to use usd to back them. Stable coins are what govts want now and yes they won’t really be much better. Ultimately it’s what the people and market wants. Better tech better money and efficiency always wins. Will it happen in our lifetime? I’m betting yes you can bet no and take that risk. You must also think economy is healthy and bailout was a normal intervention. In the end any form of intervention...
The country that will be first to implement a total cashless society is Sweden. The country has moved so far in using digital currency that some people have been implanted with microchips in their hands in order to pay for goods and services. Sweden and other countries don't need bitcoins to have a cashless society. You don't seem to understand that countries want full control of their currencies and this is not possible at all with the 2,500 crypto currencies that already exist. Japan is following Sweden's lead and other will follow.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/21/business/sweden-cashless-society.html

https://www.newsbtc.com/2018/08/06/japan-may-eliminate-cash-following-swedens-lead-is-it-good-for-crypto/
  • #99
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  • Apr 27, 2019 10:15am Apr 27, 2019 10:15am
Quoting Hutch
{quote} The country that will be first to implement a total cashless society is Sweden. The country has moved so far in using digital currency that some people have been implanted with microchips in their hands in order to pay for goods and services. Sweden and other countries don't need bitcoins to have a cashless society. You don't seem to understand that countries want full control of their currencies and this is not possible at all with the 2,500 crypto currencies that already exist. Japan is following Sweden's lead and other will follow. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/21/business/sweden-cashless-society.html...
Yes I totally understand and I already told you they will have no choice. Look at the countless times a market was intervened with and the results.. history does not lie. A public ledger is the only one that provides a trust less layer that spans across boundaries.. there is really no reason for CBDS other than being a stepping stone to the real thing.
  • #100
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  • Apr 27, 2019 10:50am Apr 27, 2019 10:50am
Like the ledger, the bible of this cult can solve the problem of trust just like that, by random encryption lol
Member
  • #101
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  • Apr 27, 2019 11:01am Apr 27, 2019 11:01am
What sane person will ever trust bitcoin again after such failure?!
1. The amplitude of the collapse it's self explanatory!
2. What "trust"??? The current manipulation above the 5000 level is more than obvious!
Only fanatics are blind to that!
The bitcoin's chart collapse defies minimum common sense!
Member
  • #102
  • Quote
  • Apr 27, 2019 5:22pm Apr 27, 2019 5:22pm
Quoting TudorIoan
What sane person will ever trust bitcoin again after such failure?! 1. The amplitude of the collapse it's self explanatory! 2. What "trust"??? The current manipulation above the 5000 level is more than obvious! Only fanatics are blind to that! The bitcoin's chart collapse defies minimum common sense!
You don’t make much sense and I don’t want to feed into your trolling infatuation with bitcoin but price has not much to do with the underlying technology.. btw there is no encryption in bitcoin so get your facts clear it’s ecdsa. Totally different and one is quantum safe while the other is not. If you take a look at history bitcoin also went from $50 to $2 it’s just another obituary you have self defined it as dead and it comes back and makes you look stupid again. Who knows if ath will be reached any time soon but price is the least of my worries in this industry. It’s all removing intermediaries from business processes.
  • #103
  • Quote
  • Apr 27, 2019 5:31pm Apr 27, 2019 5:31pm
Quoting sidhujag
{quote} Yes I totally understand and I already told you they will have no choice. Look at the countless times a market was intervened with and the results.. history does not lie. A public ledger is the only one that provides a trust less layer that spans across boundaries.. there is really no reason for CBDS other than being a stepping stone to the real thing.
CBDS is interesting. Do you smoke this stuff?

https://www.google.com/search?q=cbds&oq=CBDS&aqs=chrome.0.0l6.14608j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
  • #104
  • Quote
  • Apr 27, 2019 9:15pm Apr 27, 2019 9:15pm
Quoting Hutch
{quote} CBDS is interesting. Do you smoke this stuff? https://www.google.com/search?q=cbds...hrome&ie=UTF-8
good catch! Sorry I meant CBDCs that is the phase we are in. Governments are saying me too I want in!
  • #105
  • Quote
  • Apr 28, 2019 12:40am Apr 28, 2019 12:40am
Quoting sidhujag
{quote} You don’t make much sense and I don’t want to feed into your trolling infatuation with bitcoin but price has not much to do with the underlying technology.. btw there is no encryption in bitcoin so get your facts clear it’s ecdsa. Totally different and one is quantum safe while the other is not. If you take a look at history bitcoin also went from $50 to $2 it’s just another obituary you have self defined it as dead and it comes back and makes you look stupid again. Who knows if ath will be reached any time soon but price is the least of...
I am only trying in different ways to explain that bitcoin has major flaws.
I can understand why you try to make bitcoin to look better, ignoring any other arguments, views and opinions about the crypto industry.

1. I can understand you have an important interest in this business, which explains your aggressivity. Fighting for your dreams is not necessarily a bad thing.
2. Digital dollars is not unsafe as much as crypto cult believers would want to in order to justify the blockchain technology.
3. Encrypted money is not way much safer than digital money.
4. Inflation is not a reason to prove the need of crypto. And bitcoin will not spare the world of inflation, even is coming in a limited number of pieces.(crypto fans really have it wrong at this point)
5. Concerning the decentralisation wish, well, the "middle man", "third party", is mostly about the governments and the central banks. But they actually play an important role in reglementation and for the balance of credit and the global flow of the finance.They are not just greedy, stingy, useless entities.
6. Your sophisticated tech jargon doesn't substitutes reasonable arguments. I mean, nobody buys a product if he don't understand what it is.
7. For bitcoin to become an acknowledged success, supporters must take into consideration deeper aspects of the financial mechanism. A better cooperation with financial experts would be good for everybody.

In my opinion, the cryptocurrency believers are very enthusiastic (which is a good thing) and they really wish "a change", but they are making few mistakes on fundamental parts of economy and financials.
Member
  • #106
  • Quote
  • Apr 28, 2019 10:03am Apr 28, 2019 10:03am
And those same fundamentals I have explained to you and you don’t seem to understand. It does not get more fundamental than Ideal Money. Go read the paper. You don’t seem to know how bad the current system is. Go ahead use your toilet paper money just stop responding to my posts since your wasting everyone’s time going in circles.
  • #107
  • Quote
  • Edited 10:45am Apr 28, 2019 10:20am | Edited 10:45am
Quoting sidhujag
And those same fundamentals I have explained to you and you don’t seem to understand. It does not get more fundamental than Ideal Money. Go read the paper. You don’t seem to know how bad the current system is. Go ahead use your toilet paper money just stop responding to my posts since your wasting everyone’s time going in circles.
I am so sorry, Sid, but the underlying support of the US dollar can also be digital!
I am not sure what is the real differece between those two "digital" versions!
I do agree the digital is superior to paper ...somehow, I mean if we can make abstraction of the EMP weapons which can erase the whole ledger.
Perhaps you can extend explanation out of your vast knowledge.

I do read the newspaper. But in mine, it doesn't say anything about "how bad the current system is"!
I guess it depends on what newspaper you read after all.
And I don't take it as granted and swallow everything I read in the newspapers. I hope you don't either.
I heard there are some printing about secret societies who run the world... uuuh, scary!
The best thing is to think with your own head.
So, I am open to any honest discussion about why the current system is wrong.
Member
  • #108
  • Quote
  • Apr 28, 2019 11:20am Apr 28, 2019 11:20am
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} I am so sorry, Sid, but the underlying support of the US dollar can also be digital! I am not sure what is the real differece between those two "digital" versions! I do agree the digital is superior to paper ...somehow, I mean if we can make abstraction of the EMP weapons which can erase the whole ledger. Perhaps you can extend explanation out of your vast knowledge. I do read the newspaper. But in mine, it doesn't say anything about "how bad the current system is"! I guess it depends on what newspaper you read after...
Ok your brainwashed by media.. so you think nothing is wrong with our current financial system.. btw the new debt ceiling has been reached again.. a ceiling put in there to protect us from too risk of hyperinflation yet here we are for the 5th or 6th time trying to increase it.. based on delta of population and growth of working force the amount of supply is rising exponentially.. I don’t know how else to explain to you than with that one simple statement. Based on that there are profound implications and no increasing rates won’t offset the growth of that supply because it is tied to paying off debt that was used for yesterday’s convenience.

We haven’t had prosperity since the dot com burst.
  • #109
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  • Apr 28, 2019 11:26am Apr 28, 2019 11:26am
We are built today on the back of “exponential growth”. Which means we must grow at a faster rate than yesterday. When that growth stops because there’s not enough liquidity to support that growth the whole system breaks. Our ancestors didn’t give 2 you know what’s because they knew while they live they would be fine and enjoy growth and lavish lifestyles but the cheque is due and collections is here.
  • #110
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  • Apr 28, 2019 11:39am Apr 28, 2019 11:39am
In every complex financial system there is a Nash Equilibrium. Iff P then Q. There are always consequences to every action. So the system must be designed to contain risks to some actions while at the same time knowing it won’t be perfect because of human irrationality we know that there are cases where Q won’t be desired. In this case the trade off is exponential growth. It’s air tight meaning there is equilibrium until you hit the point where growth cannot occur due to external circumstances that the model did not account for.

Bitcoins beauty is its simplicity. The model is designed such that there is equilibrium with no requirement of exponential growth. It’s a “natural byproduct” due to supply and demand and not forced through intervention. Even if I was satoshi and they took me in and said shut this thing down I couldn’t aslong as 2 people are using it the system preserves itself because of being a shared ledger. The trade off is that miners must secure the system from corruption. There is math around the incentives around miners and trust me it’s way more sound than central bank rate decisions which always will be susceptible to corruption because it’s not auditable nor is it autonomous. Future looking observers have no clue what tomorrow’s base will look like and thus this is why you have Malthusian events where people rush to safe havens. When you know what to expect tomorrow there are no more safe havens and no black swan events. Just steady growth until the next paradaigm shift in money happens.
  • #111
  • Quote
  • Apr 28, 2019 12:30pm Apr 28, 2019 12:30pm
Quoting sidhujag
{quote} Ok your brainwashed by media.. so you think nothing is wrong with our current financial system.. btw the new debt ceiling has been reached again.. a ceiling put in there to protect us from too risk of hyperinflation yet here we are for the 5th or 6th time trying to increase it.. based on delta of population and growth of working force the amount of supply is rising exponentially.. I don’t know how else to explain to you than with that one simple statement. Based on that there are profound implications and no increasing rates won’t offset...
I am very sorry gat, is totally wrong what you say.
That proves again you don't understand the monetary policy and you are the one who answers in circles.
It's elementary for those who have minimum idea about finances that the debt is not important as long inflation is kept in check by the money supply!
The dotcom crisis and the suprime crisis was a blunder by Alan Greenspan. Like if you burn your fingers, is no use to blame the fire! The fire is ok, if you know how to use it.
The system is ok if you kniw how to use it!
Can you understand that?
Member
  • #112
  • Quote
  • Edited 1:06pm Apr 28, 2019 12:38pm | Edited 1:06pm
Quoting sidhujag
We are built today on the back of “exponential growth”. Which means we must grow at a faster rate than yesterday. When that growth stops because there’s not enough liquidity to support that growth the whole system breaks. Our ancestors didn’t give 2 you know what’s because they knew while they live they would be fine and enjoy growth and lavish lifestyles but the cheque is due and collections is here.
Is not exactly exponential growth. Sometimes is not even a growth LOL And again, because you get it very wrong, DEBT is a problem only if we look separately to it. There can't be any problem if the balance between growth, debt, inflation, employment is professionally taken care. Is too easy for you to take them separately just because they sound bad to the ignorant audience. And the central bank managed successfully the last crisis by wise balance of their financial tools.
Member
  • #113
  • Quote
  • Apr 28, 2019 12:55pm Apr 28, 2019 12:55pm
Quoting sidhujag
In every complex financial system there is a Nash Equilibrium. Iff P then Q. There are always consequences to every action. So the system must be designed to contain risks to some actions while at the same time knowing it won’t be perfect because of human irrationality we know that there are cases where Q won’t be desired. In this case the trade off is exponential growth. It’s air tight meaning there is equilibrium until you hit the point where growth cannot occur due to external circumstances that the model did not account for. Bitcoins beauty...
"There are always consequences to every action" is a cliche, not an argument.
The carbon atomic structure is beautiful bioproduct in simplicity too, but we don't use it as currency.
You mention supply and demand but you totally ignore how the credit works, is imposible to be controled by the miners math, that's ridiculos.
And predictibility is against human nature, people will never follow the linear productivity slope! It's worse then the dark communism era ever!
Member
  • #114
  • Quote
  • Apr 28, 2019 1:44pm Apr 28, 2019 1:44pm
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} Is not exactly exponential growth. Sometimes is not even a growth LOL And again, because you get it very wrong, DEBT is a problem only if we look separately to it. There can't be any problem if the balance between growth, debt, inflation, employment is professionally taken care. Is too easy for you to take them separately just because they sound bad to the ignorant audience. And the central bank managed successfully the last crisis by wise balance of their financial tools.
You again are brainwashed by language fed puts out there regarding to balancing act. I just broke down logically how it works and you continue to spew random garbage. There is no fallacy in knowing that no system is perfect. Thus what is the weakness of the current one? One which requires exponential monetary expansion it service existing debt. Since the market is zero sum what happens if money is removed yet at the same time consequences of doing so are no comprehended fully? It’s never really been done before because we have never been in such a position. Right now we need to keep expanding if we somehow start paying off the debt magically then yes they can contract but is the global economy ready for that? 100% not. In the other hand the majority of problems start with the fact that politics and economic policy are correlated when they should not be. Corruption and greed is also a component when humans control a rate mechanism which controls supply. This is all stuff that if removed would be ideal and thus the term ideal money.

You really should read a crash course on how money in printed and services and the consequences of actions we took and are taking going forward. I posted a link to another one of your posts somewhere and it won’t take longer than 4h once you do that we can have a more logical constructive conversation. Right now information travels across means and we are not seeing eye to eye because of not understanding what is happening.
  • #115
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  • Apr 28, 2019 1:48pm Apr 28, 2019 1:48pm
It is also a misunderstanding to say that we “professionally” escaped crisis via QE. You are not understanding anything I’m saying about intervention. Look around you too eu countries are sick and people are uprising against it. There’s no magic pill that can be taken to stop it now all we can do is enter depression and hope to innovate our way out.

predicitability is about stability and avoiding safe havens. Prosperity is also lacking because every dollar earned today is multiple dollars owed.

Every market every company every city goes through organic growth patterns. They all die sooner or later and follow ebbs and flows around innovation or lack of it, this has been documented and shown by multiple studies. The monetary system is the oldest market and lacks innovation and has been propped up by fat cats braindwashing voters like you who don’t understand the simplicity in the fact that there is no free lunch. We printed because we are broken and the system isn’t self contained.. it will always kick the cAn until it can’t or until something better comes to switch to.
  • #116
  • Quote
  • Apr 28, 2019 2:12pm Apr 28, 2019 2:12pm
Quoting sidhujag
{quote} You again are brainwashed by language fed puts out there regarding to balancing act. I just broke down logically how it works and you continue to spew random garbage. There is no fallacy in knowing that no system is perfect. Thus what is the weakness of the current one? One which requires exponential monetary expansion it service existing debt. Since the market is zero sum what happens if money is removed yet at the same time consequences of doing so are no comprehended fully? It’s never really been done before because we have never been...
People already think your crypto jargon is the worse brainwash effect from the crypto maniacs who invent all kind of nonsense and cliches to find support for their bitcoin business among poor ignorant audience.
You have no logic in what you say, only obssessive blabbering about crypto supremacy, tipically for the blind cult followers.

Of course there is no perfect system. But the blockchain is just an experiment which can't control the currency crisis.

You just use the flaws of the current system to justify your crypto experiment. Nobody will accept that!
Your rethoric like "is the global economy ready", "politics and economic policy are correlated when they should not be", all cheap cliches everybody knows... oh, here's a new one: corruption and greed are bad! lol
Believe me, I have nothing to lose, and I want to trust bitcoin because we all hate corruption, but I can't believe your fallacy.

You are just a just a guy with a crypto business, and you need to fight for it with all you got!
Unfortunately that makes you less credible.
Member
  • #117
  • Quote
  • Apr 28, 2019 2:15pm Apr 28, 2019 2:15pm
Quoting sidhujag
It is also a misunderstanding to say that we “professionally” escaped crisis via QE. You are not understanding anything I’m saying about intervention. Look around you too eu countries are sick and people are uprising against it. There’s no magic pill that can be taken to stop it now all we can do is enter depression and hope to innovate our way out. predicitability is about stability and avoiding safe havens. Prosperity is also lacking because every dollar earned today is multiple dollars owed. Every market every company every city goes through...
You become more and more dramatic in your stories about the terrible current system ...and less credible.
Tipically for the obssesed crypto cult followers!
Member
  • #118
  • Quote
  • Apr 28, 2019 2:27pm Apr 28, 2019 2:27pm
Only the people with great deal of interest in the crypto business can ignore 6 Nobel prize laureates economists' opinions and fill the forums using pathetic drama to justify his view, and patronizing the people who don't agree!
Member
  • #119
  • Quote
  • Apr 28, 2019 2:44pm Apr 28, 2019 2:44pm
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} You become more and more dramatic in your stories about the terrible current system ...and less credible. Tipically for the obssesed crypto cult followers!
Mainly we have to first get you to understand what the flaws of current system are to understand at least what the point of bitcoin is. Yes it’s an experiment but we know that likely something related to it if not it will be successor of tomorrow’s money if you understand history.
  • #120
  • Quote
  • Apr 28, 2019 2:47pm Apr 28, 2019 2:47pm
You don’t have to believe my fallacies I don’t represent technology which you make it sound like I do. Are you a paid government troll like the ones on bitcointalk? It seems like your only angle is to dismiss crypto in any way even without logic. Do your own research before spreading lies. Do your homework then come to me with your arguments. It seems you’re lack of research has translated into trolling attempts here because your butthurt that you missed out rather than try to understand it and break it down (something that no one has been able to do after really understanding it) . Kruger was wrong about internet just like bitcoin. Nash never commented on bitcoin ever but if you read between lines on his work it all adds up as likely him being behind it all.putting those two in the same sentence is a disservice to nashes innovations. He stands above the ones you mentioned by a mile.
  • #121
  • Quote
  • Apr 28, 2019 2:48pm Apr 28, 2019 2:48pm
Quoting sidhujag
{quote} Mainly we have to first get you to understand what the flaws of current system are to understand at least what the point of bitcoin is. Yes it’s an experiment but we know that likely something related to it if not it will be successor of tomorrow’s money if you understand history.
You can't just bring arguments like we need a new invention and come up with any experiment and ignore economists just to pretend you are Galileo on the pyre!
Member
  • #122
  • Quote
  • Apr 28, 2019 2:51pm Apr 28, 2019 2:51pm
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} You can't just bring arguments like we need a new invention and come up with any experiment and ignore economists just to pretend you are Galileo on the pyre!
I broke down the system is broke and shows you readings you need to follow through with. What more do you need?
  • #123
  • Quote
  • Apr 28, 2019 2:53pm Apr 28, 2019 2:53pm
Quoting sidhujag
You don’t have to believe my fallacies I don’t represent technology which you make it sound like I do. Are you a paid government troll like the ones on bitcointalk? It seems like your only angle is to dismiss crypto in any way even without logic. Do your own research before spreading lies. Do your homework then come to me with your arguments. It seems you’re lack of research has translated into trolling attempts here because your butthurt that you missed out rather than try to understand it and break it down (something that no one has been able...
I can't beleive your best argument is that I dismiss crypto without logic! The same thing it can be said about you. Your nonsense has no logic, only whisful thinking.
Nash it was a theoretician, he can't help your business, sorry. You better consider the Nobel laureates arguments! You avoid even to reffer to them... you keep repeating obsessively Kruger and Nash lol
Member
  • #125
  • Quote
  • Apr 28, 2019 2:55pm Apr 28, 2019 2:55pm
If you don’t understand that the system is broken then you have lost your marbles if you had any to begin with. Look this will be my last post here and hopefully readers can read through your bs so I’ve been here for a lot longer than you and hopefully helped people switch and save/make and become financially free. All I can do is try and I don’t ask for anything. I spread knowledge that I have learned from experience and education and I can’t the say that you have for sure. Readers my advise is to check the links I posted about background then make your own decision.
  • #126
  • Quote
  • Apr 28, 2019 2:58pm Apr 28, 2019 2:58pm
Quoting sidhujag
If you don’t understand that the system is broken then you have lost your marbles if you had any to begin with. Look this will be my last post here and hopefully readers can read through your bs so I’ve been here for a lot longer than you and hopefully helped people switch and save/make and become financially free. All I can do is try and I don’t ask for anything. I spread knowledge that I have learned from experience and education and I can’t the say that you have for sure. Readers my advise is to check the links I posted about background then...
The system is not broken just because you say so, and because is ruining your business!
Please, don't lose your temper here, we need a serious discussion!
Member
  • #127
  • Quote
  • Apr 28, 2019 4:15pm Apr 28, 2019 4:15pm
Come on, look at your posts!
You never said anything thoughtful!
All circus!
But you can imagine anything you want as long as you are just a dreamer!

No, you simply fail to understand basics of economic concepts!
Your arguments are in some excellent rhetorical but awfully fake.

Never mind, we can understand is about survival for you.
Your business is close to the end... sorry for that.
But the bitcoin hype was created by people like you to rob other people's real money. Now everything is turning against you... sad!
Member
  • #128
  • Quote
  • Apr 28, 2019 6:29pm Apr 28, 2019 6:29pm
Quoting sidhujag
We are built today on the back of “exponential growth”. Which means we must grow at a faster rate than yesterday. When that growth stops because there’s not enough liquidity to support that growth the whole system breaks. Our ancestors didn’t give 2 you know what’s because they knew while they live they would be fine and enjoy growth and lavish lifestyles but the cheque is due and collections is here.
Sorry to say but you are wrong on the first point. In order to have an exponential growth the economy must grow at a an increasing pace year after year and this hasn't been the case. Please take a look at the tradingeconomics web site and you look at the quarterly growth rate you will see that it's not exponential at all although the growth has been steady. For example the last two quarters of last year the growth was 3% each while the first quarter of this year it was 3.2%. If to choose to see the growth on a chart you will also see that it goes in a straight line for the past 10 years not exponentially. What is worse is that it looks like that the data has been manipulated by the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA) to show better figures than reality since it reports raw figures instead of figures after inflation. For the last quarter the Real Investment Advice (https://realinvestmentadvice.com/about-that-first-quarter-gdp-surprise/) concluded that, after taking into consideration inflation, the real GDP is not 3.2% as reported by the BEA but less than half at 1.56%. On the other hand you are somewhat right on the second point. Our ancestors did not live lavishly as you pretend since life was a lot more difficult in the past. You are right stating that when growth stops the cheque is due and collection is here. I think that the collection date is near since we cannot borrow forever. In any case my belief is that growth based upon debt is not growth at all but only smoke and mirror.
  • #129
  • Quote
  • Apr 28, 2019 7:06pm Apr 28, 2019 7:06pm
Quoting sidhujag
If you don’t understand that the system is broken then you have lost your marbles if you had any to begin with. Look this will be my last post here and hopefully readers can read through your bs so I’ve been here for a lot longer than you and hopefully helped people switch and save/make and become financially free. All I can do is try and I don’t ask for anything. I spread knowledge that I have learned from experience and education and I can’t the say that you have for sure. Readers my advise is to check the links I posted about background then...
I agree 100% with you that the system is broken for two reasons. First, our forefathers wanted a free capitalistic society not the socialist society we now have. Our gov bailed out the banks with my tax money and that of all my fellow citizens. The same happened in the EU. In a capitalist economy the banks would have gone bankrupt. Baling out banks is socialism at its worst. The only country that did not bail out the banks and, instead, sent the banksters to jail and nationalized the banks was Iceland. Bond and shareholders of these banks lost everything the way it is meant to be in a capitalist country.

Second, the democrats and the republicans are the same; enacting policies that only help the rich. The US robs the poor to give the money to the rich. This is not normal. Reducing taxes on corporations so that they can buy back stocks to artificially increase their value instead of creating new well paying jobs is wrong since it only helps the rich.

The tax cuts on corporation and the bail out of banks, were financed by borrowing money that, sooner or later, will have to be paid by the population. This is very much a sign that the system is broken.
  • #130
  • Quote
  • Apr 28, 2019 7:46pm Apr 28, 2019 7:46pm
Quoting TudorIoan
But the bitcoin hype was created by people like you to rob other people's real money. Now everything is turning against you... sad!
When Satoshi Nakamoto created the bitcoin putting a limit of 21 million he kept a million for himself. This is a well deserved reward for the inventor of the block chain technology used in bitcoins. At the time a bitcoin was worth less than 1¢ so the value of his 1 million bitcoins was less than $10,000. I don't believe at all that the intention of Satoshi Nakamoto was to rob people since and he had no way of knowing how popular they would get or how high the value of each bitcoin would reach. On the other hand, I agree with you that the other 2,500+ clones of bitcoins were exclusively created to make their inventors rich so you are right stating that they were made to rob other people's money.
  • #131
  • Quote
  • Apr 28, 2019 9:00pm Apr 28, 2019 9:00pm
Quoting Hutch
{quote} Sorry to say but you are wrong on the first point. In order to have an exponential growth the economy must grow at a an increasing pace year after year and this hasn't been the case. Please take a look at the tradingeconomics web site and you look at the quarterly growth rate you will see that it's not exponential at all although the growth has been steady. For example the last two quarters of last year the growth was 3% each while the first quarter of this year it was 3.2%. If to choose to see the growth on a chart you will also see that...
Monetary expansion has to happen exponentially or the system implodes because debt has an interest and interest is exponential. I’m not talking about real growth (prosperity) which is gdp but the system must expand from the house of cards collapsing that’s a known fact..
  • #132
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  • Apr 29, 2019 2:18am Apr 29, 2019 2:18am
Nonsense! The scale of the debt problem is much less severe than is popularly supposed. Keynesian economics applied correctly, wisely can keep this problem in check.

The crypto hype is just a poisoned carnival started by the rebels, radicals, detractors of the system. In generally, losers who burned their fingers in business and now they blame the fire, the system, not on their disabilities.
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  • #133
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  • Apr 29, 2019 4:08am Apr 29, 2019 4:08am
Quoting TudorIoan
Nonsense! The scale of the debt problem is much less severe than is popularly supposed. Keynesian economics applied correctly, wisely can keep this problem in check. The crypto hype is just a poisoned carnival started by the rebels, radicals, detractors of the system. In generally, losers who burned their fingers in business and now they blame the fire, the system, not on their disabilities.
I think that you are wrong on the first point. To the contrary, the scale of the debt problem is much more severe than people think and Keynesian economics cannot solve that problem unless countries implement very deep cuts in their budgets in order to produce a budget surplus every year in order to reduce the debt to an acceptable level. Take my country as an example. If the two biggest holders on treasury bonds, China and Japan, stopped buying those bonds the Fed would have no other choice but to buy them, thereby greatly increasing the money supply. The bad news is that the dollar would quickly depreciate in value thereby robbing the US population of their savings through hyper inflation because everything would cost more. The imports would cost much more but the country could export more because of low prices. The problem is that the US has a huge trade deficit so it's very hard to know what the end result would be. The good news is that this hyper inflation would allow the US to reimburse the treasury bonds when they mature with a worthless currency. I agree with you that the hype about crypto currencies is just a poisoned carnival started by detractors of the system. I also believe that crypto currencies will not solve the debt problem or any other problem so don't wake up the detractors and let them dreaming.
  • #134
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  • Apr 29, 2019 10:13am Apr 29, 2019 10:13am
Fed was already buying its own bonds aswell as securities in stealth during qe3 and TARP. It’s much worse than popular belief. If you open the curtains and see the books I’m sure it’s a cluster.

if they pump liquidity and devalue bonds when they mature that will undermine confidence in usd and fed will be the only one buying forever like they were before for a short while. I wrote about this extensively before the qe pump and dump going on is much more severe than any proposed btc whale games.

crypto won’t fix the debt problem it will make it worse as people move their money into it it will expose the issues of a debt based system which isn’t backed 1:1 future work to value
  • #135
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  • Edited Apr 30, 2019 12:35am Apr 29, 2019 10:36pm | Edited Apr 30, 2019 12:35am
So, Warren Buffet was right about bitcoin!
Bitcoin will end up bad because - as the collapsed chart proves it - people don't trust this asset anymore.
The most dangerous thing about bitcoin is the fact that it looks like a bad investment for long term so far.
Because its oversized volatility!
Why put savings into crypto for years if it can fall 40% in one week!?!
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  • Posted: Apr 19, 2019 9:32am
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    Category: Entertainment News
    Comments: 135  /  Views: 37,009