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  • I am very disappointed in China. Our foolish past leaders have allowed them to make hundreds of billions of dollars a year in trade, yet...

Added at 9:53pm

Time to do something , sanctions waist time as North Korea just a proxy for China. China is the one funding the nuke program with trade,the real cause of this mess. Previous us governments go attack Iraq when weapons of mass instruction didn't even exist, yet sit and watch North Korea until it is too late. If you have the technology to shoot down the nukes , perfect for a big surprise strike wipe out and just get it over with. In long term think how many lives it will save once the mad Korean launches first. Some say he won't and just trying to protect his country so best to do nothing. Look at the situation now , getting worse with time. Something must be done more then useless sanctions. Put some tariffs and punish China with trade at least to send a message.
In practical terms for investors and traders this link may be useful staring point from which to evaluate dangers and opportunities should the blah blah turn into trade restrictions n
https://qz.com/853032/these-are-the-us-companies-and-states-that-will-suffer-most-if-us-china-relations-worsen/
Quoting Pip-Miner
Time to do something , sanctions waist time as North Korea just a proxy for China. China is the one funding the nuke program with trade,the real cause of this mess. Previous us governments go attack Iraq when weapons of mass instruction didn't even exist, yet sit and watch North Korea until it is too late. If you have the technology to shoot down the nukes , perfect for a big surprise strike wipe out and just get it over with. In long term think how many lives it will save once the mad Korean launches first. Some say he won't and just trying to...

I agree! Although this is a precarious position for the US to be in, as any military action will certainly mean casualties for Asian allies because NK will certainly try to retaliate! The best way forward is to hit China in the trade wars by increasing tariffs on any Chinese imports going into US markets. IMO that is the first step to addressing this problem. If that fails to produce desired results then other options have to be considered. Start with the money that Chinese worship so much! Make it more expensive for hitting their bottom line as they need US markets more than the US needs China, so the US has leverage in this game!
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no more chocolate cake for president Xi, lol
Quoting Pip-Miner
Time to do something , sanctions waist time as North Korea just a proxy for China. China is the one funding the nuke program with trade,the real cause of this mess. Previous us governments go attack Iraq when weapons of mass instruction didn't even exist, yet sit and watch North Korea until it is too late. If you have the technology to shoot down the nukes , perfect for a big surprise strike wipe out and just get it over with. In long term think how many lives it will save once the mad Korean launches first. Some say he won't and just trying to...
i just want a simple answer from you how many countries has North Korea attacked in the past or presently?
Dear Orange Buffoon, please stop whining on twitter and deploy THAAD to S. Korea, allow S. Korea to develop sophisticated ICBM, sanction N.Korea along with the financial institutions that work with them, engage in big military exercises with India, sell arms to Taiwan, do whatever it takes to annoy China in conflict zones, punish China with tariffs and other stuff.
Quoting abu99er
{quote} i just want a simple answer from you how many countries has North Korea attacked in the past or presently?
whats your point ........ it only takes one nuke to kill 10,s of thousands
ONE MUST LEARN, DO IT AND IT WILL BE KIND TO YOU
A president (with past business experience) knows better how to count money and take appropriate actions....as compared to "politically correct blood suckers" (WITHOUT ANY PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE OF HOW TO BUILD A BUSINESS, CREATE EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES, PAY TAXES, ETC.) who get into politics to suck government budget, carelessly spend it, and leave masses of problems.

That is why Donald Trump is a "different U.S. president".

There are many enemies who want Trump impeached, so that the mess continues..
Quoting forexengines
A president (with past business experience) knows better how to count money and take appropriate actions....as compared to "politically correct blood suckers" (WITHOUT ANY PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE OF HOW TO BUILD A BUSINESS, CREATE EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES, PAY TAXES, ETC.) who get into politics to suck government budget, carelessly spend it, and leave masses of problems. That is why Donald Trump is a "different U.S. president". There are many enemies who want Trump impeached, so that the mess continues..
Pay taxes is a nice argument, lol
Quoting change
{quote} Pay taxes is a nice argument, lol
"What" do you imply?
IMHO The North Korea probem cannot be resolved without China. Because NK borders directly on China, military buildups in Japan or S Korea to constrain NK will be suspected by China as threats to China itself and will make Chinese cooperation even less likely. Equally any unilateral military excursion against NK, without Chinese consent would bring world to brink of war. Meanwhile, Chinese know this and are quite happy to see POTUS twisting in the wind on this problem, with no solutions. Its not their problem.

It would be naieve to expect financial trade pressure will move China.
IMHO if US wants really Chinese intervention it will be a bribe, not a threat and cost it bigtime.
Which IMHO is at the heart of current Chinese strategic thinking.
Just saying..
Quoting abu99er
{quote} i just want a simple answer from you how many countries has North Korea attacked in the past or presently?
How many countries are making open threats of annihilation and lobbing missiles at their neighbors? How many countries are torturing and starving their citizens?
Quoting cliffedwards
IMHO The North Korea probem cannot be resolved without China. Because NK borders directly on China, military buildups in Japan or S Korea to constrain NK will be suspected by China as threats to China itself and will make Chinese cooperation even less likely. Equally any unilateral military excursion against NK, without Chinese consent would bring world to brink of war. Meanwhile, Chinese know this and are quite happy to see POTUS twisting in the wind on this problem, with no solutions. Its not their problem. It would be naieve to expect financial...

Part of this I agree with you on. Any military action by the US would have extreme grave consequences for the world, but if you think that the US has no leverage you certainly are not paying attention. The economic front is where Trump will begin to put pressure on China, as China has the most to lose if they fail to capitulate on anything involving NK. Currently any trade bilateral agreements that are in progress as we speak will have severe consequences for China's economy if nothing can be negotiated with fair terms. For China there is no middle ground, it is a zero sum game between war and peace. Recently China's panda has turned into a dragon in regards to these issues, and Trump is not going to back down. Economics is going to be the vehicle in which he will use in order to deal with the NK issue, so really the ball is in China's court, they just have to decide how much face they are willing to lose and risk trillions of dollars already invested in American interests.


"China has no cultural or political space between peace and war; they are a historic nation based on two points of polarity. They see peace and war as coexisting with each other. China accepts and believes opposite or contrary forces may actually be complementary, interconnected, and interdependent in the natural world, and they may give rise to each other as they interrelate to one another. Flowing between these polar states is a natural dynamic to be used -with serious contemplation- in advancing objectives as needed.

Peace or war. Win or lose. Yin and Yang. Culturally there is no middle position in dealings with China; they are not constitutionally capable of understanding or valuing the western philosophy of mutual benefit where concession of terms gains a larger outcome. If it does not benefit China, it is not done. The outlook is simply, a polarity of peace or war. In politics or economics the same perspective is true. It is a zero-sum outlook.

Therefore, when you see China publicly use strong language – it indicates a level of internal disposition beyond the defined western angst. Big Panda becomes Red Dragon; there is no mid-status or evolutionary phase. Every American associated with investment, economics and China would be well advised to put their business affairs in order accordingly." ~ Sundance
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} ...they are not constitutionally capable of understanding or valuing the western philosophy of mutual benefit...
1. US interests ≠ western inerests
2. US philosophy ≠ western philosophy
3. China is on this Earth 3000+ years, US 300 years. Which one, you think, might understand the World better?
Quoting forexengines
{quote} "What" do you imply?
Mmmmhhh, let me think ...
Quoting cliffedwards
IMHO The North Korea probem cannot be resolved without China. Because NK borders directly on China, military buildups in Japan or S Korea to constrain NK will be suspected by China as threats to China itself and will make Chinese cooperation even less likely. Equally any unilateral military excursion against NK, without Chinese consent would bring world to brink of war. Meanwhile, Chinese know this and are quite happy to see POTUS twisting in the wind on this problem, with no solutions. Its not their problem. It would be naieve to expect financial...
Agreed. China and Russia are 2-3 steps smarter than DJT in this: let him rants and tweet his micro short time angry vocals plotting MT and LT scenarios. Very easy pull DJT in traps, they're playing cat and mouse imho.
both the us and china can´t have an economical interest in a trade war:

1) the us are the most important export market for china
2) china owns a huge part of the us national debt.

in a trade war, china will lose most part of that export market. if so, think what will happen to chinese growth and employment.
in a trade war, us will lose one of it´s most important financiers of it´s debt. think what will happen if china decides to sell it´s 1,12 trillions.

nk is not that important to the chinese economy than the us. so to me it´s likely that we will see a non-atomic first strike of the us on nk (moab), soon. it will take some time (days/weeks?) in order to deploy us military potential and defence systems (raytheon ) to the allies (sk, japan) but trump said "We will no longer allow this to continue". this will not only solve a main problem of the us policy (and it´s local allies) in general, but also lift trumps low poll numbers. and if mad kim decides to attack sk or japan with nukes, he´ll die himself by an us nuke.

si vis pacem para bellum
fortis fortuna adiuvat
Quoting deltaone
both the us and china cant have an economical interest in a trade war: 1) the us are the most important export market for china 2) china owns a huge part of the us national debt. in a trade war, china will lose most part of that export market. if so, think what will happen to chinese growth and employment. in a trade war, us will lose one of its most important financiers of its debt. think what will happen if china decides to sell its 1,12 trillions. nk is not that important to the chinese economy than the us. so to me its likely that we will...
China only owns about 10% of the total US debt and has actually decreased it's holdings since 2013. Meanwhile the US accounts for roughly 22-23% of China's total exports. China needs us more than we need them.
"Pride always comes before destruction...." -Proverbs 16:18
Quoting Expo33
{quote} China only owns about 10% of the total US debt and has actually decreased it's holdings since 2013. Meanwhile the US accounts for roughly 22-23% of China's total exports. China needs us more than we need them.
correct, china decreased it´s holdings

https://www.thebalance.com/who-owns-the-u-s-national-debt-3306124

but debt is rising

http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/unitedstates

governement debt as a share of gdp is horrible (107,45%)

https://www.statista.com/statistics/722971/g20-public-debt-to-gdp-ratio/

so what do you think what will happen (usd, long term interest rates) if china decides to sell?

you might be right that china needs us more than vice vera - but all in all, that was not my argument: tradewars among economies with that scale of interlacement know no winners. my argument was that us is more important to china in economic terms than north korea, and hence china will not react directly when us strikes that stalinistic museum of horsehead seal kim.
fortis fortuna adiuvat
Quoting deltaone
{quote} correct, china decreased its holdings https://www.thebalance.com/who-owns-...l-debt-3306124 but debt is rising http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/de...k/unitedstates governement debt as a share of gdp is horrible (107,45%) https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-to-gdp-ratio/ so what do you think what will happen (usd, long term interest rates) if china decides to sell? you might be right that china needs us more than vice vera - but all in all, that was not my argument: tradewars among economies with that...
Agree.

My only point was that China has more at stake than the U.S.

If China sells our debt, someone else will buy it. Foreign countries, the U.S. government and it's citizens will buy up that 10%. That doesn't necessarily benefit the U.S. but it takes away any fear associated with China dumping it's debt as a form of economic retaliation. The U.S. will sell it's soul to get another credit card. The U.S. is the worlds' debt whore and who doesn't like a whore that looks like an ATM machine?

On the flip side, the threat of any U.S. protectionism towards China isn't something to sneeze at. China's exports to the U.S. is roughly 4% of their GDP. Not the end of the world but that's $457 billion at stake for China. Also, China is the largest buyer of North Korean goods. Seems, they would be highly vested in a solution to the NK issue.

Personally, I don't think the NK tin pot dictator will actually try and strike anyone. I think he's more likely overcompensating for his need to feel powerful and doesn't want to jeopardize his status as a supposed "big" player on the world stage. If he actually strikes any country then NK will get bombed backed to the stone ages and a military coup will ensue. The people of NK will suffer horribly (not that he cares). The world will suffer accordingly as well. I imagine for the time being he's just happy shooting off his symbolically phallic test missiles.
"Pride always comes before destruction...." -Proverbs 16:18
A Tariff will bring China to the negotiating table over NK.
The Tariff Act of 1930 could allow a president to impose tariffs of up to 50 per cent and then, if escalation was required, block imports completely, halving or worse of Chinese exports to the US – worth US$385.2 billion in 2016 according to the General Administration of Customs – if a 45 per cent tariff is introduced.
More importantly, the direct export losses from the imposition of such tariffs would represent only a small part of Beijing’s troubles in a trade war against the US, with the global trade system that has boosted China’s prosperity and
encourage other countries to become hostile to Chinese products, thus wrecking China’s powerful export machine.
What is more worrying is that other countries may follow suit. As a result, Chinese exporters may not only lose the US market but also the wider market in advanced countries.
The European Union, China’s second-biggest export market, is also getting increasingly frustrated with a flood of cheap Chinese products and curbs on access to the Chinese market..
Quoting althar
{quote} 1. US interests ≠ western inerests 2. US philosophy ≠ western philosophy 3. China is on this Earth 3000+ years, US 300 years. Which one, you think, might understand the World better?
Your premise on face value alone is an absurd one. The US understanding of the world is no less validated than China's regardless of their respective histories or any other country in the world for that matter! What is China's contribution to humanity? What technological innovation that they can claim as their own that is benefitting humanity in the 21st century? (less gun powder) While you enjoy typing you words on this forum, it could not have been made possible without the US's technological innovations. My point is, this issue is not so much about nationalistic Identities as it is about Humanity facing the prospects of a Nuclear war. So you tell me what solutions you can offer in deterring such threats not more blusterous philosophical discussions that is not rooted in reality and I will listen!
Quoting deltaone
both the us and china can´t have an economical interest in a trade war: 1) the us are the most important export market for china 2) china owns a huge part of the us national debt. in a trade war, china will lose most part of that export market. if so, think what will happen to chinese growth and employment. in a trade war, us will lose one of it´s most important financiers of it´s debt. think what will happen if china decides to sell it´s 1,12 trillions. nk is not that important to the chinese economy than the us. so to me it´s likely that we will...
I agree. But there is also more for China to lose in terms of Corporate holdings and real estate investments that Chinese nationals own a very large stake in that would also be in jeopardy should China decide to seize US assets currently in China!
Quoting Aussi
{quote} whats your point ........ it only takes one nuke to kill 10,s of thousands
We already know this thanks to our american friends.
Quoting cliffedwards
IMHO The North Korea probem cannot be resolved without China. Because NK borders directly on China, military buildups in Japan or S Korea to constrain NK will be suspected by China as threats to China itself and will make Chinese cooperation even less likely. Equally any unilateral military excursion against NK, without Chinese consent would bring world to brink of war. Meanwhile, Chinese know this and are quite happy to see POTUS twisting in the wind on this problem, with no solutions. Its not their problem. It would be naieve to expect financial...
Wise words Cliff. There is a book I must find and digest, written by a couple of Chinese military types, its called something like "ECONOMIC WARFARE". Bearing in mind how much debt the Chinese own of the USA, it may be very pertinent.

Green Pips

Paul
What you guys haven't realize yet is that this is just Trump waking up on the wrong side of the bed.
Tweeter is a very effective way for him to express his impulsive emotional behavior to the public but by no means is this a platform for creating policy. If he can't even communicate effectively with his own government for lack of diplomatic abilities what makes you think he can with other governments.
Is this lack of diplomacy that made me realize his presidency will be a complete washout.
Quoting forexengines
A president (with past business experience) knows better how to count money and take appropriate actions....as compared to "politically correct blood suckers" (WITHOUT ANY PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE OF HOW TO BUILD A BUSINESS, CREATE EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES, PAY TAXES, ETC.) who get into politics to suck government budget, carelessly spend it, and leave masses of problems. That is why Donald Trump is a "different U.S. president". There are many enemies who want Trump impeached, so that the mess continues..
It is weird you said that... DT never created anything..he inherited all the money he has.. actually he did something but something that showed his lack of knowledge.. he just bankrupted 4 casinos... and we all know a Casino is a money maker.
This idiot wants China to start a war against NK so China economy will suffer. The China economy is one thing DT can't handle very well. He thinks USA should be the only greatest economy in the World but again he is not doing anything to achieve that and he won't be able to do because he has no clue. He will be the most stupid president USA has ever had.
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} Your premise on face value alone is an absurd one. ...
Once again, since you obviously didn't understand my post. US has it's own political, strategic, military and other interests, which is all both legal and legitimate. But, please, don't attribute US interests to "western world", whatever this means, and don't be so arrogant to think that other nations/people can't have their own views on things, just because US is a hegemon.

Nukes are with us 70 years, since US threw (the only) two of them on Japan and we have to live in the nuclear shade ever since. Why would now be any different? Just because US MIC prop up media tell you so? There might be other truths in this world, you know. Not that US as an imperial force should care much about that, but still...
Quoting Nick.
What you guys haven't realize yet is that this is just Trump waking up on the wrong side of the bed. Tweeter is a very effective way for him to express his impulsive emotional behavior to the public but by no means is this a platform for creating policy. If he can't even communicate defectively with his own government for lack of diplomatic abilities what makes you think he can with other governments. Is this lack of diplomacy that made me realize his presidency will be a complete washout.
Very well said.
Quoting cliffedwards
IMHO The North Korea probem cannot be resolved without China. Because NK borders directly on China, military buildups in Japan or S Korea to constrain NK will be suspected by China as threats to China itself and will make Chinese cooperation even less likely. Equally any unilateral military excursion against NK, without Chinese consent would bring world to brink of war. Meanwhile, Chinese know this and are quite happy to see POTUS twisting in the wind on this problem, with no solutions. Its not their problem. It would be naieve to expect financial...
Please. I am making NO political point. Pro-TRump or anti-Trump.
I am ONLY giving MHO, on the strategic dynamics of a difficult situation,
that may create great volitility in the market,
.... as one might a chess game.
/EndOf
Quoting abu99er
{quote} i just want a simple answer from you how many countries has North Korea attacked in the past or presently?
simple answer is 1 country: South Korea. But, you know, it's like when you have a mentally-ill guy living next door who's just trying to get some guns because he sees you as a threat for some sick reason. Do you also prefer to downplay it now and wait until you'd be looking down the barrel of his rifle one day?
Omne principium grave
Quoting althar
{quote} Once again, since you obviously didn't understand my post. US has it's own political, strategic, military and other interests, which is all both legal and legitimate. But, please, don't attribute US interests to "western world", whatever this means, and don't be so arrogant to think that other nations/people can't have their own views on things, just because US is a hegemon. Nukes are with us 70 years, since US threw (the only) two of them on Japan and we have to live in the nuclear shade ever since. Why would now be any different?...

It is not once again understanding your post, it is on face value that I would interpret your meaning on literal terms. Look at your own words as you state them as to why! Your response in kind while ignoring the valid points I make simply is either being purposely obtuse or dosen't make sense by rearranging the context to suit your own homogenous views what ever they may be. So be it! Just trying to be respectful and have an honest conversation. Sorry I tried! As my last response to you I get a COC breach and I have no idea why as my comments were fairly innocuous and to the point. Sorry to the moderators if I offended! Peace!
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  • Posted: Jul 29, 2017 9:52pm
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    Category: Low Impact Breaking News
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