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  • Volvo will go all electric by 2019, drop traditional engines

    From cbsnews.com

    In Volvo's view, the combustion engine is going the way of tailfins and ashtrays. Volvo will begin producing electric motors on all its cars from 2019, becoming the first traditional automaker to forgo the combustion engine altogether. The Swedish company, which has been making cars since 1927 and has in recent decades become famous for its station wagons and safety features, said Wednesday that the decision was prompted by the wishes of customers, describing it as "one of the most significant moves by any car maker." Electric cars are gaining attention from investors as well as drivers, with electric-car maker ... (full story)

oil is falling
Invest in alarm clocks
Will they become known as Volto ?
Don't wait for the wind, take to the oars.
The Forefront of Technology ... here we come!

(what is Swedish for "leading through Innovation")
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life!
Quoting Pleiadian
Will they become known as Volto ?
Thats pretty good, lol.
Why is a Raven like a Writing Desk?
The down fall of oil..a warning to oil dependent Nations..
Quoting Pleiadian
Will they become known as Volto ?
Where's that upvote button...
@ ohakaba; Like yours right?
Less is more...
Quoting ohakaba
The down fall of oil..a warning to oil dependent Nations..
especially Nigeria and its pears
So. Not like they have any significance in the auto market anymore.
Mark ... Either you understand or you don't, and that is that.
Until we have batteries which can last a lot more than the current 2-300 miles and take all night to charge, most will just be watching on the sidelines.

Teslas are extremely heavy and most of that weight is battery. The electric motor is far superior to the combustion engine, but the problem is that battery technology is not yet there. It is the same technology as the battery in your phone. When it gets a bit old, 50% charge does not mean 50% lol. Imagine that in your car. It will be there one day soon and oil will be almost redundant. It will change a lot of dynamics worldwide.
I never did like Nigerian pears
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life!
Quoting jen101
Until we have batteries which can last a lot more than the current 2-300 miles and take all night to charge, most will just be watching on the sidelines. Teslas are extremely heavy and most of that weight is battery. The electric motor is far superior to the combustion engine, but the problem is that battery technology is not yet there. It is the same technology as the battery in your phone. When it gets a bit old, 50% charge does not mean 50% lol. Imagine that in your car. It will be there one day soon and oil will be almost redundant. It will...
Great strides have been made in both battery and super capacitor arena where both technologies are capable of 1-3 minute full recharge. 2018/2019 will see these in production. The latest battery tech from Surrey and Bristol Universities have structures which can be moulded into different shapes, allowing flexibility in battery positioning and weight distribution
Quoting Devauxt
{quote} Great strides have been made in both battery and super capacitor arena where both technologies are capable of 1-3 minute full recharge. 2018/2019 will see these in production. The latest battery tech from Surrey and Bristol Universities have structures which can be moulded into different shapes, allowing flexibility in battery positioning and weight distribution
LOL
Quoting barkie
{quote} LOL
Why?
Quoting Exodus
I never did like Nigerian pears
Lol...You cheeky chappy
Less is more...
wonder if hydrogen engines will ever be a possiblity...
Quoting cyguy
wonder if hydrogen engines will ever be a possiblity...
Hydrogen engines are here already. 'Engines' might not be the correct word since I have not researched the technology, it might be fuel cell; however I do know that Toyota (?) has made available for free a large number of patents for use by manufacturers wishing adopt hydrogen power for vehicles.

Japan has a number of hydrogen 'filling stations' to service hydrogen-powered vehicles. The cost of increasing the fuel distribution network and onerous regulations (in some countries) is seen as a major barrier to easy take-up of the technology.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life!
well there are adaptations from using a fuel cell in addition to the gasoline combustion engine in order to increase mpg output, but the burn of the H2 is a hotter temp then the gasoline we put in there, so to have a stable engine they would need to reinforce the engine steel. But either the conspiracy theorist think gas companies are squashing the engine in favor of profit, or the regulations you speak of, I really do feel like that would be a better alternative to modern day combustion engines, especially since the emission is h20. But I guess we will see in a couple of years huh?
Quoting cyguy
well there are adaptations from using a fuel cell in addition to the gasoline combustion engine in order to increase mpg output, but the burn of the H2 is a hotter temp then the gasoline we put in there, so to have a stable engine they would need to reinforce the engine steel. But either the conspiracy theorist think gas companies are squashing the engine in favor of profit, or the regulations you speak of, I really do feel like that would be a better alternative to modern day combustion engines, especially since the emission is h20. But I guess...
I think that hydrogen as a commercial fuel only really has a future in fuel cells for electricity generation. CeresPower now have a commercially available 'ceramic on steel' fuel cell which is gas fuel neutral and is more cost effective to manufacture and to purchase. It has real application as a back up generation source for EV's
I am not sure how this is going to be possible and not hurt Volvo's overall market share in the short term. When they say completely electric by 2019, does that also include their commercial Semi Tractor Trailer products as well? If that is the case, then I just don't see it happening for this part of their customer base, at least IMO., there will be some growing pains for a while until the technology is improved for batteries. Cars and SUV's well that is another story, but something for their Tractor Trailer Products, I am not sure there won't be skeptics of this particular product line where torque and power is needed to haul tonnages across the country.
There appears to be some confusion about this.
1. Volvo has stated that "starting in two years, its cars will be electric, plug-in hybrids or mild hybrids."
That does not mean "Electric Only", simply that all cars SUVs etc will include as a minimum .. an electric element in its power plant.
2. The the matter of commercial heavy vehicles.. Volvo already have a hybrid heavy vehicle program.
In long haul transportation, they estimate that the hybrid powertrain will allow the combustion engine to be shut off for up to 30 per cent of driving time.saving between 5-10 per cent in fuel,
3. The torque efficiency of electric transmission is far superior than the of ICE.. and been long ubiquitous in Rail engines... a reality as yet to be realised in long haul heavy trucks design.
Quoting DrManhatten
I am not sure how this is going to be possible and not hurt Volvo's overall market share in the short term. When they say completely electric by 2019, does that also include their commercial Semi Tractor Trailer products as well? If that is the case, then I just don't see it happening for this part of their customer base, at least IMO., there will be some growing pains for a while until the technology is improved for batteries. Cars and SUV's well that is another story, but something for their Tractor Trailer Products, I am not sure there won't...
Geely is the Chinese owner of Volvo and I would say that this says more about China's influence, rather than anything else. The Chinese government have adopted strict new guidelines on pollution control, coupled with China's desire to be ahead of the technology pack for once
Electric cars ???? all Propaganda ,,,Vehicle becomes Use less piece of metal when the battery is gone ,,,hydrogen cell still under research for reliability ,,,,,

Future is ////// 5 Stroke engines ...with CVT gear boxes


I think illmor from UK already working on it .
What Volvo said yesterday (according to MSM ) is that in 2 years time none of their cars will be hydrocarbon fuel only vehicles. So hybrid or full electric.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life!
Quoting mazchaudhry
..... Future is ////// 5 Stroke engines ...with CVT gear boxes I think illmor from UK already working on it .
They need to ditch that 'CVT' handle. There have been some CVT transmissions which are notoriously unreliable. Even those true CVT transmissions that seem to work reliably have to have their drive belts changed every 50,000km (or whatever) at great expense. Additionally the number of kids who ride large hair-driers which use v-belt transmission systems will acquire a healthy disrespect for CVT.

Therefore (any manufacturers out there reading this ? ) I think CVT should be abandoned in favour of some other tag, such as Hybrid Transmission.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life!
  •  Guest
  • | IP XX.XXX.50.33
How about this for future power, or I wonder is it all a scam,
http://uk.businessinsider.com/nanoflowcell-quantino-car-uses-ionic-liquid-to-drive-2016-2?r=US&IR=T/#the-fluid-is-circulated-around-the-barrier-separating-the-two-cells-which-produces-an-electrical-current-that-powers-the-motor-2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGQiM0kuJ3o
Quoting jen101
Until we have batteries which can last a lot more than the current 2-300 miles and take all night to charge, most will just be watching on the sidelines. Teslas are extremely heavy and most of that weight is battery. The electric motor is far superior to the combustion engine, but the problem is that battery technology is not yet there. It is the same technology as the battery in your phone. When it gets a bit old, 50% charge does not mean 50% lol. Imagine that in your car. It will be there one day soon and oil will be almost redundant. It will...
Huge (or would that be Yuge?) opportunity for inventors and R&D labs to develop more advanced batteries. Lead-acid batteries for cars -- are you kidding, that technology is 200 years old, and they add a ton of weight to a car. I saw a TV news item recently that an inventor has come up with a solid electrolyte lithium battery, which is safe and continues to operate when it is punctured or even cut into pieces. Supercapacitors have a lot of potential, they theoretically don't lose capacity after being recharged hundreds of times, like most rechargeable batteries do.

Quoting cyguy
well there are adaptations from using a fuel cell in addition to the gasoline combustion engine in order to increase mpg output, but the burn of the H2 is a hotter temp then the gasoline we put in there, so to have a stable engine they would need to reinforce the engine steel. But either the conspiracy theorist think gas companies are squashing the engine in favor of profit, or the regulations you speak of, I really do feel like that would be a better alternative to modern day combustion engines, especially since the emission is h20. But I guess...
Hydrogen sounds great in theory, but when examined in detail there are some very large technical hurdles.
• Hydrogen doesn't liquify like propane or LNG, so you need a massive heavy walled tank to keep it at extreme pressure. So the energy to weight ratio is lousy. Hydrogen can be chemically bound to metals to form a metal hydride, which gets around the high pressure requirement but doesn't get around the weight problem since the vehicle has to carry a lot of powdered metal.
• Pure hydrogen doesn't exist in elemental form on Earth so it has to be generated from something else. 95% of hydrogen is produced from fossil fuels.
Sure I have a trading plan. Buy low. Sell high. What's yours?
Hydrogen can be electrolysed out of water, the other by-product being Oxygen.

Hydrogen can be liquified, but it needs to be rather cold. 33K seems to be the critical temperature, and even colder if the pressure is normal atmospheric.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life!
Batteries have gotten better but cause a lot of pollution in their manufacture. The clean image is undeserved.

Didn't GM have a hydrogen powered car near ready to go until it became government Motors? Maybe that should be brought back.
2019? I doubt that. Solid state lithium battery factories need to be constructed first.

2025 maybe.
Quoting kenleander
2019? I doubt that. Solid state lithium battery factories need to be constructed first. 2025 maybe.
This might help
http://www.techworld.com/apps-wearab...sible-3651281/

https://www.surrey.ac.uk/mediacentre...-battery-power
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyvNnYCL9z0
Quoting Devauxt
{quote} This might help http://www.techworld.com/apps-wearab...sible-3651281/ https://www.surrey.ac.uk/mediacentre...-battery-power
(*the materials are based on large organic molecules composed of many repeated sub-units and bonded together to form a 3-dimensional network.)

sounds complicated

(“We’re now going to start the building of a full-scale prototype, and we hope to have it built in the spring,” he said.)

It's summer now...where's the prototype?
Quoting kenleander
{quote} (*the materials are based on large organic molecules composed of many repeated sub-units and bonded together to form a 3-dimensional network.) sounds complicated (“We’re now going to start the building of a full-scale prototype, and we hope to have it built in the spring,” he said.) It's summer now...where's the prototype?
Not sure Ken, I've not checked
Quoting Pleiadian
Will they become known as Volto ?
It may become eVOLVO
Not gonna happen the new mode of transport in Sweden will be Camel powered - this is the only vehicle which is Sharia compliant.
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
Quoting arasheed
{quote} It may become eVOLVO
...and if they move production to Sunderland UK, the could become .... "eeee-Volvo"

Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life!
Quoting Exodus
{quote} ...and if they move production to Sunderland UK, the could become .... "eeee-Volvo"
Reeves and Mortimer with Ulrika-ka-ka-ka, drooling and rubbing the thighs vigorously.
Quoting ajantala
@ ohakaba; Like yours right?
You caught me their... Well Its more like a down size to our corrupt politicians pockets... There's hope for the bright minds #Revolution
Quoting Exodus
I never did like Nigerian pears
It's a free world.. So opinions are allowed..
Defensively speaking, there are Nigerians who are achieving greatness globally its just that nationality isn't written in the fore Head, some choose to reserve their identity.
  •  Guest
  • | IP XX.X.31.146
Ohh nice move there Volvo! While you're at it, please make cars that fly!!!
Quoting Devauxt
{quote} Geely is the Chinese owner of Volvo and I would say that this says more about China's influence, rather than anything else. The Chinese government have adopted strict new guidelines on pollution control, coupled with China's desire to be ahead of the technology pack for once
Even so, Chinese influence is waning and I highly doubt that they will have that much impact on the commercial interstate trucking industry in the US, which is heavily relied upon for transporting goods across the continental US. Volvo is going to lose a lot of it's market share in the coming years, especially now that the focus will be Pro US manufacturing. That includes Peterbuilt, Kenworth, Frieghtliner, and International just to name a few who will applaud this Pro USA stance. Volvo Trucks have been in the middle competing with the American Trucks, and for the most part have built reliable products for many years so with this move, I am not sure it is possible to go all in with out risking losing some aspect of this industry's market share in particular. Add in the fact US Chinese relations are going to get much worse considering the recent revelations of the Geo-political issues, (such as China supplying NK with ICBM missile,) things are about to get much more expensive for China, and rightfully so in order to send a message to China that NK and their reckless behavior will not be tolerated.
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} Even so, Chinese influence is waning and I highly doubt that they will have that much impact on the commercial interstate trucking industry in the US, which is heavily relied upon for transporting goods across the continental US. Volvo is going to lose a lot of it's market share in the coming years, especially now that the focus will be Pro US manufacturing. That includes Peterbuilt, Kenworth, Frieghtliner, and International just to name a few who will applaud this Pro USA stance. Volvo Trucks have been in the middle competing with the American...
Personally I think that electric motors are the future and their relative simplicity compared to the combustion engine, levels the playing field in terms of manufacturing but the advantage is with the Chinese in terms of the manufacturing cost.

Peterbuilt, Kenworth, Frieghtliner, and International are indeed great trucks, but not leading edge and certainly little in the way of significant international trade. Brand loyalty and "made in the USA" sustain these companies, but that will not be enough to ensure their continued success, unlike companies like Tesla. Reliance on anti Chinese sentiment is a fool hardy economic strategy. Sportsmen solely dependent of their opponents mistakes don't last long, you have to have a game.

The competition have the advantage (many of them Chinese but not all) as they don't have the baggage. Some of the manufacturers that are largely USA based and USA dependent have got to up their game in terms of quality, innovation and international appeal to ensure their continued success. I say this as a fan of the USA
The big weak link (IMO) remains electrical storage and the re-charging process. Properly crack that one and IC will become dinosaurs very quickly.
on the news MUSK is going to build the biggest battery in south Australia
ONE MUST LEARN, DO IT AND IT WILL BE KIND TO YOU
Quoting cyguy
wonder if hydrogen engines will ever be a possiblity...
Toyota have an hydrogen fuel cell car called the Mirai on the roads already. They include the first three years of filling up in the price. Air products are installing the refueling stations at service stations where the cars are currently available. Honda also have one on the roads called the Clarity. Fill up the same as any other car, and the range is about the same also.
My Inner World Creates My Outer World...
Quoting Devauxt
{quote} Personally I think that electric motors are the future and their relative simplicity compared to the combustion engine, levels the playing field in terms of manufacturing but the advantage is with the Chinese in terms of the manufacturing cost. Peterbuilt, Kenworth, Frieghtliner, and International are indeed great trucks, but not leading edge and certainly little in the way of significant international trade. Brand loyalty and "made in the USA" sustain these companies, but that will not be enough to ensure their continued success,...
You could be right in terms electric motors being the future, then again that could change too,( as maybe another technology) but in the meantime the technology is simply not there yet to solve the commercial Trucks demand. The very same US companies they we both just mentioned, are in the process in the R&D aspect for achieving a competitive edge such as electric motors. In the mean time there needs to be a bridge to this which is why I am a big fan of Bio Diesel as an alternative, which shows a lot of promise in terms of cost, efficiency, and environmental impacts. The electric motor still has a ways to go for Bigger commercial truck that require more energy, and power to run.
Quoting ohakaba
{quote} It's a free world.. So opinions are allowed.. Defensively speaking, there are Nigerians who are achieving greatness globally its just that nationality isn't written in the fore Head, some choose to reserve their identity.
Bro, a pear is a fruit that grows on a tree.
In the case of a Nigerian pear, the tree is in Nigeria.
Just sayin....

Peace bro
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life!
Quoting Guest
Ohh nice move there Volvo! While you're at it, please make cars that fly!!!
It is being done. Check out.....
http://www.newsofbahrain.com/viewNews.php?ppId=32574&TYPE=Posts&pid=41&MNU=9&SUB=33

https://youtu.be/BbImqlqdozk
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life!
"The electric motor still has a ways to go for Bigger commercial truck that require more energy, and power to run"

Just a minor point the biggest trucks are electric not diesel...the on board engine simply powers a generator....commonly found in use in open cut mining ....those things are monsters size-wise

same thing applies for the big ocean liners

just saying
Quoting Devauxt
{quote} Personally I think that electric motors are the future and their relative simplicity compared to the combustion engine, levels the playing field in terms of manufacturing but the advantage is with the Chinese in terms of the manufacturing cost. Peterbuilt, Kenworth, Frieghtliner, and International are indeed great trucks, but not leading edge and certainly little in the way of significant international trade. Brand loyalty and "made in the USA" sustain these companies, but that will not be enough to ensure their continued success,...
The same thing killed the UK cars industry. Lack of vision by the people at the top of the relevant companies combined with being hamstrung by Unions meant that adopting new technology and manufacturing methods was impossible.

So all the 'British' companies died and were replaced by Japanese (big manufacturing in Sunderland, Derby and Swindon) and German (factories at Oxford and elsewhere) manufacturers who bought the brand names and made market-competitive vehicles.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life!
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} You could be right in terms electric motors being the future, then again that could change too,( as maybe another technology) but in the meantime the technology is simply not there yet to solve the commercial Trucks demand. The very same US companies they we both just mentioned, are in the process in the R&D aspect for achieving a competitive edge such as electric motors. In the mean time there needs to be a bridge to this which is why I am a big fan of Bio Diesel as an alternative, which shows a lot of promise in terms of cost, efficiency,...
Siemes has a 200kW motor (~265bhp) which would power a truck. Also it is easy to put 2 electric motors into a truck. The problem is the energy storage required. The good news with a truck is that adding 5 tonnes of battery is a small thing.......

Personally I believe that Hybrid is the way to go with vehicles like trucks which require about 150bhp just to run at 60mph along a motorway.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life!
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} You could be right in terms electric motors being the future, then again that could change too,( as maybe another technology) but in the meantime the technology is simply not there yet to solve the commercial Trucks demand. The very same US companies they we both just mentioned, are in the process in the R&D aspect for achieving a competitive edge such as electric motors. In the mean time there needs to be a bridge to this which is why I am a big fan of Bio Diesel as an alternative, which shows a lot of promise in terms of cost, efficiency,...
The bridge or back up I believe is going to be fuel cell technology in combination with electric motors. Take a look at Cerespower (http://www.cerespower.com/) with their 'ceramic on steel' fuel cell which is gasified fuel neutral
Quoting Exodus
{quote} The same thing killed the UK cars industry. Lack of vision by the people at the top of the relevant companies combined with being hamstrung by Unions meant that adopting new technology and manufacturing methods was impossible. So all the 'British' companies died and were replaced by Japanese (big manufacturing in Sunderland, Derby and Swindon) and German (factories at Oxford and elsewhere) manufacturers who bought the brand names and made market-competitive vehicles.
Yes indeed, Unions and Socialist government destroyed the car industry in the UK along with other industries
Quoting Exodus
{quote} Bro, a pear is a fruit that grows on a tree. In the case of a Nigerian pear, the tree is in Nigeria. Just sayin.... Peace bro
Okey then my bad.
Trucking companies would be loath to give up 10k pounds of payload for batteries.
Presently 80% DoD discharge/charge cycles for lithium batteries is 400-900 cycles without degradation. Solid state lithium batteries may have as much as 100,000 discharge/charge cycles without degradation.

Unless you're a wild-eyed-tree-hugger with loads of cash and a desire to buy a new set of expensive batteries every few years you'll wait for the solid state batteries that are lighter, more powerful, have a deeper DoD and will last the life of the car.

Since Volvo management does not have a solid state battery factory, their projection of ALL electric vehicles by 2019 is absurd. I don't think the public is as foolish as Volvo management projections.

Hydrogen fuel cells may be possible as an electric power source to replace lithium batteries but nobody is manufacturing reasonably priced fuel cells capable of powering a vehicle. Costs today exceed $200,000 for the fuel cell alone.
Quoting gat
Trucking companies would be loath to give up 10k pounds of payload for batteries.
That would be true if you judge everything through the current combustion engine paradigm (HP and RPM). Electric motors are capable of considerably more torque than their combustion engine counterparts. So as an example, a 35hp electric motor would be a direct replacement for a combustion engine in the 100 to 150hp range
Quoting kenleander
Presently 80% DoD discharge/charge cycles for lithium batteries is 400-900 cycles without degradation. Solid state lithium batteries may have as much as 100,000 discharge/charge cycles without degradation. Unless you're a wild-eyed-tree-hugger with loads of cash and a desire to buy a new set of expensive batteries every few years you'll wait for the solid state batteries that are lighter, more powerful, have a deeper DoD and will last the life of the car. Since Volvo management does not have a solid state battery factory, their projection of ALL...
The need, demand and desire are there to make a quantum leap in battery technology, It might not be quiet there yet but there certainly is a buzz (excuse the pun) around this field - https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/g...ery-technology
Quoting Devauxt
{quote} The need, demand and desire are there to make a quantum leap in battery technology, It might not be quiet there yet but there certainly is a buzz (excuse the pun) around this field - https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/g...ery-technology
I am already familiar with Prof Goodenough's work.

The Tesla gigafactory in Nevada is at least capable of supplying the old style lithium batteries. Battery production facilities require a significant lead time. And only recently (January) has the Tesla factory started to turn out a significant number of batteries. Announcement of a European Gigafactory is expected this year. Tesla expects to have six such factories around the world by 2020.

Supplying a car with an efficient electric motor is absurd if the car manufacturer can't supply efficient batteries to go with it. Volvo management may have arranged for a share of the Tesla european batteries. Will the new facilities in Europe be solid state batteries? And can they turn out a significant number of them in Europe by 2019? If so then self driving solid state battery cars will definitely be a game changer. (Extremely low maintenance, safe, reliable, self driving, enduring vehicles with unheard of mileage efficiency). It would put ICE out of commission. But by 2019? I'll believe that when I see it.

(My wife just told me that Volvo said electric or hybrid by 2019, so I misread that)
Agreed, I don't think the ICE will be defunct in the short term (I certainly hope not), but EV's are going to take increased market share from ICE based vehicles.

This is just for entertainment only -
Inserted Video


Inserted Video
Quoting kenleander
{quote} ....(My wife just told me that Volvo said electric or hybrid by 2019, so I misread that)
See post #24
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life!
Quoting kenleander
{quote} I am already familiar with Prof Goodenough's work. The Tesla gigafactory in Nevada is at least capable of supplying the old style lithium batteries. Battery production facilities require a significant lead time. And only recently (January) has the Tesla factory started to turn out a significant number of batteries. Announcement of a European Gigafactory is expected this year. Tesla expects to have six such factories around the world by 2020. Supplying a car with an efficient electric motor is absurd if the car manufacturer can't supply efficient...
The Tesla S has a range of up to 232 miles and the battery is 29% of the weight of the car! Firstly, is that 232 mile range driving it like a milk float with no passengers, no load at a constant speed of 50mph? What if you were to thrash it? 50 miles? Doesn't leave you with much. So I wonder, what is the realistic range, with load and putting your foot down now and then, swinging around country lanes and plenty of stop starts at lights. They never give you figures like that. I have quizzed Tesla sales guys on exactly those questions and I never really got any answers, only that if you run out of juice, they will come and rescue you! Fills you with confidence.

I wonder how long it will take to get down to the south of France.
Quoting jen101
{quote} I wonder how long it will take to get down to the south of France
Should take no time at all, every body else is going the other way!
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life!
Quoting jen101
{quote}I wonder how long it will take to get down to the south of France..
Just as you depart Calais, the newly arrived locals will strip your Tesla for it's batteries to recharge their smartphones. So the short answer is that you will never make it in a Tesla
Quoting jen101
{quote} The Tesla S has a range of up to 232 miles and the battery is 29% of the weight of the car! Firstly, is that 232 mile range driving it like a milk float with no passengers, no load at a constant speed of 50mph? What if you were to thrash it? 50 miles? Doesn't leave you with much. So I wonder, what is the realistic range, with load and putting your foot down now and then, swinging around country lanes and plenty of stop starts at lights. They never give you figures like that. I have quizzed Tesla sales guys on exactly those questions and...
Dendrite prone lithium batteries don't have the range, safety, power, or fast recharge of solid states. Solid state is the way to go whether lithium or sodium. It's dangerous to push liquid lithium batteries to the max. Tesla sales guys wouldn't or shouldn't advise you to put your foot down. Besides, 100% battery drain on the liquid lithiums will only give you 300 charges before degradation. Do that and you'll be looking at replacing a $15,000 battery bank in two years. NOT so with solid states.
Quoting Exodus
{quote} See post #24
Yeah, but replacing all ICE production with EV's doesn't suggest that they'll be keeping an ICE in the trunk to power it. You have to read the fine print for that.
Quoting kenleander
{quote} Dendrite prone lithium batteries don't have the range, safety, power, or fast recharge of solid states. Solid state is the way to go whether lithium or sodium. It's dangerous to push liquid lithium batteries to the max. Tesla sales guys wouldn't or shouldn't advise you to put your foot down. Besides, 100% battery drain on the liquid lithiums will only give you 300 charges before degradation. Do that and you'll be looking at replacing a $15,000 battery bank in two years. NOT so with solid states.
Tesla advertise 0-60 in 2.8 secs. That is a selling point, so excuse me for wanting to test it! Maybe we should take some Teslas for test drives and thrash the nuts off them.

300 charges? That is 300 x whatever the realistic range is, probably about 100 miles. So degradation after only 30,000 miles for a 100k car, fantastic!!
Quoting jen101
{quote} Tesla advertise 0-60 in 2.8 secs. That is a selling point, so excuse me for wanting to test it! Maybe we should take some Teslas for test drives and thrash the nuts off them. 300 charges? That is 300 x whatever the realistic range is, probably about 100 miles. So degradation after only 30,000 miles for a 100k car, fantastic!!
Not only that, but on the liquid lithiums: smart electronic circuit boards are required to turn off failing power cells to keep them from catching on fire.

Like I said earlier: 'Unless you're a wild-eyed-tree-hugger with loads of cash and a desire to buy a new set of expensive batteries every few years you'll wait for the solid state batteries that are lighter, more powerful, have a deeper DoD and will last the life of the car.'

Until then, EV's won't replace ICE vehicles on the roads or in the sky.
Quoting kenleander
{quote} Not only that, but on the liquid lithiums: smart electronic circuit boards are required to turn off failing power cells to keep them from catching on fire. Like I said earlier: 'Unless you're a wild-eyed-tree-hugger with loads of cash and a desire to buy a new set of expensive batteries every few years you'll wait for the solid state batteries that are lighter, more powerful, have a deeper DoD and will last the life of the car.' Until then, EV's won't replace ICE vehicles on the roads or in the sky.
Well explained, thank you.
Quoting Devauxt
{quote} That would be true if you judge everything through the current combustion engine paradigm (HP and RPM). Electric motors are capable of considerably more torque than their combustion engine counterparts. So as an example, a 35hp electric motor would be a direct replacement for a combustion engine in the 100 to 150hp range
Yes, about a 4 to 1 ration electric to IC. A decently powered semi has 450 hp with a 9, 10 or 12 speed transmission. A 110 hp electric would do well, and there have been great strides made on using automatic transmissions as well. The legal weight limit is 80k. Tractor and trailers used to tip the scales as much as 34k leaving a 46k payload. That was improved to 26k and 54k payload, much of that coming from engine redesign. There is no way to save anywhere near 10k of weight so most of that would come off the payload. Don't se trucking companies being ok with that nor DOT being ok with raising the limit. Volvo makes a nice truck. Trying to go electric for class 8 trucks though will take them out of consideration. Pete's, KW's (made by the same company), along with Freightliner will gain.
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  • Posted: Jul 5, 2017 8:54am
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     Newsstand
    Category: Fundamental Analysis
    Comments: 71  /  Views: 20,462