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  • Entries don’t matter, what to do with missed trades and some more…

    From tradeciety.com

    There are so many trading topics and concepts I’d love to talk about, but often they don’t make for a good or long enough article. So in this article, I want to explore multiple important trading topics that haven’t been covered here before. Missed trades So many traders worry about missed entries and potentially profitable trades that they did not participate in. However, you have to be clear why it is that you missed a trade and what this then means for your trading. There are 3 types of missed trades: 1) You weren’t paying attention Those types of missed trades have to be avoided and it means that you ... (full story)

  •  Guest
  • | IP XXX.XXX.193.116
Wrong. Entries matter the most. Trades should start green to let you move SL at breakeven the soonest and then let them ride or whatever. The only mangement then is the trade one. Not the money nor the risk. If you need those then you accept a period of drawdown especially on entry which means your method is poor and will eventually destroy you.

As for missed trades don't worry the market will be there tomorrow.
  •  Guest
  • | IP XXX.XXX.226.54
I must agree with guest (quote #1). exits also probably do not matter to the author of the article.

next week I will be publishing a revolutionary and ground-breaking trading article entitled "The Trend is Your Enema".
I had to laugh (at myself) when I read the article. Somehow over the years of investing I found I was using the ideas in the article. I laughed because I thought this information was unique to me. Somehow I thought I was able to sort out the good from the bad and now (last 2 years ) I have had success. I get asked many times what was my secret. I wonder what they thought when I was going "the lean years ". I've copied the article and give it to people asking for my secret. It is nice to read other traders go through problems I used to have. The hardest part of trading for me was not having people to talk with as one would have in an office.
Quoting Guest
Wrong. Entries matter the most. Trades should start green to let you move SL at breakeven the soonest and then let them ride or whatever. The only mangement then is the trade one. Not the money nor the risk. If you need those then you accept a period of drawdown especially on entry which means your method is poor and will eventually destroy you.

As for missed trades don't worry the market will be there tomorrow.
you contradict yourself completely! Entries don't matter because you CAN NOT control the entry! Trades should start green, keyword SHOULD. They don't always and often will NOT start green therefore the key is always the exit. When you put SL to breakeven that is the exit, not the entry. When you say you let the trade ride out, that is focusing on the exit. You make NO statement here that proves entry is the most important part whatsoever. The entry is the now and exit is plan for the future..

Exit is always and will always be the most important aspect of a trading method. The risk management is the element to success. To say entry is most important is a bit stupid because you CAN NOT control the random distribution of entries. A complete random entry could even make money if the right exit and risk management was applied.
All posts are my personal opinion
Quoting Guest
next week I will be publishing a revolutionary and ground-breaking trading article entitled "The Trend is Your Enema".
ROFLMAO!
My Threads: Trading is as simple as 1-2-3, Highest Open / Lowest Open Trade
For short term trade entries does matter so timing enter a trade does make big different. For long term trade I don't know I guess it not much different since if you hold a trade for days and weeks,
Quoting Guest
Wrong. Entries matter the most. Trades should start green to let you move SL at breakeven the soonest and then let them ride or whatever. The only mangement then is the trade one. Not the money nor the risk. If you need those then you accept a period of drawdown especially on entry which means your method is poor and will eventually destroy you.

As for missed trades don't worry the market will be there tomorrow.
Wrong, the entries aren't important. How you manage that trade is important.
Quoting Rtm
you contradict yourself completely! Entries don't matter because you CAN NOT control the entry! Trades should start green, keyword SHOULD. They don't always and often will NOT start green therefore the key is always the exit. When you put SL to breakeven that is the exit, not the entry. When you say you let the trade ride out, that is focusing on the exit. You make NO statement here that proves entry is the most important part whatsoever. The entry is the now and exit is plan for the future..

Exit is always and will always be the most important...
Very good said!
Quoting toptrader11
For short term trade entries does matter so timing enter a trade does make big different. For long term trade I don't know I guess it not much different since if you hold a trade for days and weeks,
but even still, the significance on exit is of far greater importance, especially for short term trades!
All posts are my personal opinion
Entries don't matter... LoL! Then exits don't matter either.

Rotflmao...
"Don't fear a bubble until it starts to burst."
  •  Guest
  • | IP XXX.XXX.193.116
Quoting Rtm
you contradict yourself completely! Entries don't matter because you CAN NOT control the entry! Trades should start green, keyword SHOULD. They don't always and often will NOT start green therefore the key is always the exit. When you put SL to breakeven that is the exit, not the entry. When you say you let the trade ride out, that is focusing on the exit. You make NO statement here that proves entry is the most important part whatsoever. The entry is the now and exit is plan for the future..

Exit is always and will always be the most important...
It is simple son. Game theory for Nice entry & lousy exit = win>draw>loss and for Lousy entry nice exit = lose>draw>win. One is exposed to Nice-Nice the other to Lousy-Lousy.

Exit profitable or BE at worse is the obvious and equally important task but Entry immediately profitable is of utmost importance ensuring you don't waste your time-money. Sure you flip a coin and then rocket science it but it will always give 50% in the not so long run plus the gambler's agony as it is written and mathematically proved extensively.

If it looks like random it is because you enter random.
Market moves for a reason there's nothing random. If you don't know the reason it doesn't mean it is random. If YOU CAN NOT control the entry a)who's pushing that button for you and b)it doesn't mean others can't too. If you enter and it goes against you market blatantly tells you "you are wrong you don't know what and why are you doing/is happening".

PS. Most traders will disagree with me but then again we all know how most traders are doing exactly because common "wisdom" is more attractive than common sense of what the odds favor. A "n+1 RR" tap in the back for all inadequate approaches more preferable than developing an approach that eliminates drawdown from the first tick...
Quoting Guest
It is simple son. Game theory for Nice entry & lousy exit = win>draw>loss and for Lousy entry nice exit = lose>draw>win. One is exposed to Nice-Nice the other to Lousy-Lousy.

Exit profitable or BE at worse is the obvious and equally important task but Entry immediately profitable is of utmost importance ensuring you don't waste your time-money. Sure you flip a coin and then rocket science it but it will always give 50% in the not so long run plus the gambler's agony as it is written and mathematically proved extensively.

If it looks like random...
Dear 1000 paper cuts,
I don't think you understand something here; it doesn't matter how 'good' an entry is if the exit is not better! The exit can make an entry look good by showing lots and lots of wins and then one day a huge loss. Like some scammer system sellers do. Or the exit can show a fair amount of wins and losses, but with bigger wins and smaller loss overall. What I am saying is the distribution at which you get trades that win and lose is out of your control. You don't know if you going to have a streak of losers or 5 win and 6 lose. Or 5 win and 1 lose. that is what is random. It has nothing to do with the market and prices. It is understanding the overall historical distribution that makes up things like RR, Win rate % etc. I know its really nice to be able to think you have "risk-free" trades. I know but hence the label, what works for some doesn't work for all. So if it works for you congratulations. Just know that what you are saying is the exit holds most VALUE, not the entry.
All posts are my personal opinion
  •  Guest
  • | IP XXX.XXX.175.234
as a day-trader and scalper (my average trade duration is about 10 minutes and I do about 100 to 150 trades per month) who occasionally and reluctantly leaves a trade open overnight or over the weekend, entries are vital because if the trader is out of the money for too long the obvious response is to close the trade as soon as one gets into the money unless the trade starts flying in the desired direction as one gets into the money. doing stop to entry is not my style, as a trade for 0 profit is a real waste of time and downright demoralising, almost as bad as taking a loss.

I started off trading equities in 2008, and keeping trades open for days or weeks. the same thing applies regarding getting a good entry. when your are in the red for too long you tend to be happy with a small profit instead of letting winners run. also remember that open trades are tying up your margin and tying up your concentration - this factor cannot be overlooked.
Click bait!!! and here comes the pop-up. (Yes, free e-books, I WIN!)
Follow me at andrewfx2020 (dot) com
  •  Guest
  • | IP XXX.XXX.193.116
Quoting Rtm
Dear 1000 paper cuts,
I don't think you understand something here; it doesn't matter how 'good' an entry is if the exit is not better! The exit can make an entry look good by showing lots and lots of wins and then one day a huge loss. Like some scammer system sellers do. Or the exit can show a fair amount of wins and losses, but with bigger wins and smaller loss overall. What I am saying is the distribution at which you get trades that win and lose is out of your control. You don't know if you going to have a streak of losers or 5 win and 6 lose....
Indeed scammers focus on exit to make entries look better but math don't lie and in due time bang the huge loss. Any idea who focuses on exit between us hoping and praying for the necessary condition of a fair amount of wins and losses else the reactive toolbox will fail miserably?

What I'm saying can be and is different from what you want to understand to justify your views. Again the undeniable truth in quarters. In theory Exit has EQUAL value with Entry because perfect entry is the perfect exit from the opposite side at all times. In practice NOBODY can do perfect because nobody knows all reasons at the tip of the turn but ANYBODY does nice if enters nice whether that means net profit or just safe capital. That is why the most important is to work(hard) to control the initial conditions and not work (maybe even harder but ultimately in vain) to micromanage the handicap of not knowing what and why the F you were doing in the first place.-

Bottomline: Exit is very but not THE most important. What is THE most important, in any aspect and not just trading, is having a headstart advantage and not a handicap. The most expensive service in the industry is knowing the reason ahead of the others while management advises are for free plus up to 100% bonus for the initial deposit. Is it true by accident caused by a random factor? If yes then you're more thick, dense and daft than just a typical casino resident.
  •  Guest
  • | IP XXX.XX.156.91
Quoting Guest
Indeed scammers focus on exit to make entries look better but math don't lie and in due time bang the huge loss. Any idea who focuses on exit between us hoping and praying for the necessary condition of a fair amount of wins and losses else the reactive toolbox will fail miserably?

What I'm saying can be and is different from what you want to understand to justify your views. Again the undeniable truth in quarters. In theory Exit has EQUAL value with Entry because perfect entry is the perfect exit from the opposite side at all times. In practice...

Maybe more daft than that . A casino resident realizes the parameters of a casino.
  •  Guest
  • | IP XXX.XX.156.91
Quoting Rtm
Dear 1000 paper cuts,
I don't think you understand something here; it doesn't matter how 'good' an entry is if the exit is not better! The exit can make an entry look good by showing lots and lots of wins and then one day a huge loss. Like some scammer system sellers do. Or the exit can show a fair amount of wins and losses, but with bigger wins and smaller loss overall. What I am saying is the distribution at which you get trades that win and lose is out of your control. You don't know if you going to have a streak of losers or 5 win and 6 lose....

I like your false retreat here and you are right that it does not matter how good an entry is IF an exit is not better but when you say things like how you enter randomly and when you do not understand the importance of starting green then let me assure you that this approach will never make you any real money and no matter how old your approach is , it is never too late to change it if it is not working.Just saying
Ultimately exit determines whether you make profit or not, but your entry determines, in large part, what that exit points are going to be

It always seems so much easier managing your trades on a good entry
When you some placing crap trades (bad entry price) then you can start making money.
Brokers and Gurus will tell you exits are more important because they want to show the suckers that "if they had bought at price A and sold at price B" their system would have made you rich.... for a fee.
There is no guide to follow. Screw such articles trading is ad hoc, and a trader often knows it when, he is about to mess up. Trading is about a high level of self esteam and that only happens through consistent trading.
You never become a better skater by reading anything, doing it is what matters.
The article is wrong and anyone else that says entries don't matter is wrong. I agree 100% with the members here that say entries DO matter. Having said that, let me put forth the caveat that if you trade without a stop loss - or if you use a HUGE stop loss - then maybe entries do not matter as much. But otherwise, entries are every bit as important as exits. If someone has a system in which every trade has a fixed stop loss of, for example, 30 pips, then the entry definitely matters! In such a situation, if you are placing a buy order more than 30 pips away from the support, then you could easily get stopped out if the price retraces near the support. Then the price turns around and takes off for 100 pips and you are sitting there feeling like a dummy for not making a better entry because you didn't give it a chance to retrace to within 30 pips of the support area before making your entry.

Also, if you are moving your SL to breakeven after the price moves a certain number of pips, then that is another obvious reason why it is critical to have a good entry. You want to get to green (positive) pips as soon as possible. This is done by having a good entry. A bad entry could have you quickly down negative double digits pips.

All the above are just a few examples of how the entry can be very important. Below I will give more reasons to have a good entry.

There is a very successful Futures trader named Ziad Masri and he says one of the big keys to his success is entering a trade at a good location. He says people are making a mistake by not getting at a good location because they want to wait for trade confirmation. Here is what he says why not to wait for trade confimation and instead get in at a good entry location:

A key to trading: Don't wait for confirmation (and entering at a good location)

* You will be able to cover the swing / S & R area with your SL easier

* You get an instant price edge which gives you the ability to quickly move your SL to a zero-risk position

* Your accuracy improves because your profit targets are closer and they get hit a higher percentage of the time

* You are much more likely to avoid getting chopped up and taking tough losses

* Think in terms of long-term probabilities, and realize the futility of needing the false certainty that confirmation provides

* Condition your mind to use fear as a signal of a good opportunity

Bottom line: Good trade location is a key to good trading.


For those who are interested, he (and his company OpenTrader) has a blog with excellent free articles that will help you with your trading. Some of you may have already seen his recorded webinar he sends out in an email from time to time. Yes, I know he is selling his trading course for something like 4 or 5 thousand dollars, BUT I am in NO WAY advertising to buy ANYTHING from him. His free recorded webinar (that he sends out in an email from time to time) and his free blog articles are more than enough to learn from -- and they are all FREE. It is among the best information about trading that I've found. And also, do a google search for "Carl Futia: The Truth About Trading - Part I". Carl Futia wrote an article that explains Ziad Masri's trading philosophy. It is a "must read". I am just providing all this info to help out other traders.

- Topgun
"Success is not a fantasy, it's a formula." - MTI
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  • Posted: May 20, 2016 9:28am
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     Newsstand
    Category: Educational News
    Comments: 21  /  Views: 6,096