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  • Saxo Bank takes hard line on customers' FX losses

    From marketwatch.com

    When the Swiss National Bank suddenly let its country's currency rocket on Jan. 15, Pawel Jaworski, a welding engineer from Elblag, Poland, was a loser. Using an online account with Copenhagen-based Saxo Bank A/S, Mr. Jaworski had bet the Swiss franc would fall. He closed his trade with a loss of EUR1,000 ($1,148). "I thought, 'I'm not the winner, but it could be worse,' " said Mr. Jaworski. It was. That evening, Mr. Jaworski, 38 years old, checked his account again. Saxo had changed the price at which his trade was executed. He was out an additional EUR2,000. "This is two or three months' wages; this is money that I ... (full story)

SaxoBank just dropped of my broker's list.

I was thinking that Cyprus-based brokers are "bucket-shops" - but in fact those did remarkably well comparing to brokers like FXCM, Oanda, etc...

And now seems that Saxo Bank is also rated under than the bucket-shops in my list of preferred brokers.
Bastards....
how can they change the price after the client closes the trade? weird broker ...
Quoting michaelpelly
SaxoBank just dropped of my broker's list.

I was thinking that Cyprus-based brokers are "bucket-shops" - but in fact those did remarkably well comparing to brokers like FXCM, Oanda, etc...

And now seems that Saxo Bank is also rated under than the bucket-shops in my list of preferred brokers.
Oanda forgave negative balances, but you are right....go the bucket shops!
Like a casino...put your chip...a number comes out...but then it getīs changed...if that is not cheating...then the word needs to be redifined, according to SAXO....
Hope the whole planet reads this...
http://sbcug.yolasite.com/
its not right.
saxobank are interbank dealer and market maker, not upto client to source liquidity, upto broker.
How many adjustment did they make to clients that had profitable trades? Did they make them more profitable trades?
I dont believe so.
Clowns.
Give them a red nose and whistle.
Bastardooooooooo!!!
I use Profiforex. I'm not endorsing just stating after this crazyness they announced they forgave all the negative balances and everyone who made profit can withdraw and they allocated extra $1 million for all the volume of withdrawals the next day! Its funny how the so called "reliable" "regulated" "trust us" end up being the once to screw you, and all that "regulations" and "reliability" its like a warranty sticker it makes you feel good, and that's where it ends. When push comes to shove, that "warranty" is as useless as tits on a bull!
There are those who know, and there are those who don't know.
Quoting osceiv2
http://sbcug.yolasite.com/
fyi: the link takes you to the "Saxo Bank cheated users group"
Quoting palabara
I use Profiforex. I'm not endorsing just stating after this crazyness they announced they forgave all the negative balances and everyone who made profit can withdraw and they allocated extra $1 million for all the volume of withdrawals the next day! Its funny how the so called "reliable" "regulated" "trust us" end up being the once to screw you, and all that "regulations" and "reliability" its like a warranty sticker it makes you feel good, and that's where it ends. When push comes to shove, that "warranty" is as useless as tits on a bull!
the person who changed the price after the trade closed need to clean the devils ass with his tougue..the bastard!!
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Changing price after the trade - this is referred to as a requote. Be sure to ask if your broker does this. I only know of OANDA that doesn't do this as far as FX brokers are concerned.
Eventually, this EURCHF turmoil was a good stress test to eliminate rubbish brokers like Saxo.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
Quoting heispark
Eventually, this EURCHF turmoil was a good stress test to eliminate rubbish brokers like Saxo.
Similar stress tests across European banks would be interesting, they are all insolvent on a mark to market basis
funny that the same day we have the news about HSBC making "significant profits for years handling secret accounts for an array of criminals, from drug cartels and arms dealers to tax evaders and fugitive diamond merchants, according to a report released Sunday by an international news organization".

it is becoming clearer and clearer for everyone to see how banks function in reality: screwing the weak and jumping around every law to make a profit, and what do we do? complaint and complaint but nothing changes... except in Greece where people seem to have said: enough is enough, you are taking the piss. I seriously hope we see more of this in other European countries
You can bet if the move had been the other way round and the majority of traders had been in profit with a profit target, they would have all been filled to the pip, with no slippage.

These banks should take it on the chin, no slipage on your stops, means no slippage. The banks should have hedged their client to mitigate the loss. Criminals the lot of them
Big business for lawyers coming up.........

I am sure this will end up in some courts all over the world. The banks have taken on the risk so they can deal with it on their own.
The simple truth is that if your broker cannot safeguard you against massive moves like these then it is not worth doing business with them.

ECN models are all the culprits. They have based their brokerages on "fair pricing" and low spreads but the one thing they could not do was to protect themselves and their clients against this catastrophe. Shame on them.....

Negative slippage, stop loss hunting, spread widening, platform freezing during news events and other unfair practices from banks and brokerages are now just exploding in their faces.

The wheel turns for everybody. What goes down must come up and visa versa.
Justice have been served on many of the scammers.....

Saxo and others this is how justice is served. Your time has come eventually.......
Never Ever Give Up!
I still remember when Saxo Bank was still called Cambiste.

They were the worst broker ever, plateform freezing, playing against its clients, closing positions out of nowhere, and so on.

One advice, stay out of Saxo, just close your account and move.

I'd rather not trade at all than putting money into Saxo crap
COT: The precious data ignored
Don't give them a penny! In fact, sue them. If Oanda can forgive negative balances, then so can Saxo.
Sends shivers down my spine, I think part of it should be blamed on to SNB, just a few days ago they were trumpeting to hold the floor and that move one fine morning. This is misleading people and the should be ashamed of it but hey-ho who cares! You can't trust no one, especially these fkin Central Banks!

It's a risky game, better be safe guys!
Quoting workingforex
Sends shivers down my spine, I think part of it should be blamed on to SNB, just a few days ago they were trumpeting to hold the floor and that move one fine morning. This is misleading people and the should be ashamed of it but hey-ho who cares! !
Naw. The SNB did the right thing by leaving prior to the ECB announcement of their 1.2 trillion QE.

If they stayed longer, the Swiss finances would've been going down with the Eurozone.

Honestly, what WAS misleading was how they were trying to keep the prices afloat; national level intervention that keeps prices up artificially almost NEVER works out well.

We've seen that with the U.K. in their Black Wednesday in 1990s (England was losing billions trying to prevent the pound from falling, and people like Soros profited from the nation's stupidity)

We've also seen something similar with the Korean Won, when the finance minister back then literally dropped a MASSIVE depletion of South Korea's reserves in order to prevent the USD/KRW from rising. The result? South Korea lost money equal to 20% of its national expenditures within a few months, and prices kept rising. South Koreans call it the "lunchbox bomb", since it was announced right during lunchtime and had the financial effect of a bomb for Korea.

I'm not surprised the SNB gave way-yes, they did it without warning-but it was really the only way to remove the price floor without Switzerland taking additional losses.

This isn't about a bank trying to profit; it's about the CENTRAL bank of a COUNTRY trying to save that country from LOSING MORE money than it already has.

In contrast, Saxo Bank is an investment bank, and not a central bank. They really don't have any excuses , except for the fact that they seem to prefer money over clientele reliability.
When people shouted orders to one another across a pit, there were times when the trades did not match. Quantity, price, time stamp, etc were incorrect. Clerks would meet, in the morning to settle out-trades between traders. If there ever was a time when local had an out trade with a broker, the local, never received the better end of the deal. The tie, you see, goes to the broker. Sorry for this guy, it sucks for sure...
...and I will add this. Let's just say if I had a pending order in eur/chf resting down at, say .9700, on Jan 15th...And I was filled during the sell off. Would have Saxo broken that trade, meaning not allowed me to be long from .9700, and in the money? Sorry to say, when I place my order, I am basically stating I would like this product (or pair), at this particular price, and I understand the risks. Breaking trades is a challenging subject for certain, and imho, should only be utilized in the most extreme conditions.
http://brontecapital.blogspot.com/2015/01/it-is-time-to-close-saxo-bank-down.html
"Saxo said any losses are its clients' fault. It said its business terms explicitly
grant it the right to revise prices after trades have been closed. "



It's a good idea for traders to avoid any broker with such contract clause.
Just do what I did. Leave your Forex Broker (FXCM) and trade currencies with a futures account (I went to TD Ameritrade). My account is never commingled and it is insured up to $500,000.00 by the FDIC (Joint account). Problem solved.
Quoting Vermillion
In contrast, Saxo Bank is an investment bank, and not a central bank. They really don't have any excuses , except for the fact that they seem to prefer money over clientele reliability.
Saxo is a Danish bank, therefore Scandinavian like Iceland. After what Iceland did to its mainly UK and Dutch banking investors, why would anybody trust those ice encrusted Eskimos to be any good at anything?
Some reviews:

http://www.forex-broker-rating.com/comments/Saxo_Bank?types=2&type=broker#yakor
white collar crime at its best
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I also got stopped out that day at Saxo. After EUR/CHF broke 1.20, they settled all trades of the first 11 minutes at 0.9625 and those of the next 20 minutes at 0.88. I had some buy orders around 1.15 which were executed at 0.9625 (great!) but then stopped out at 0.88. Even though I think their way of adjusting trades is at the border of legality, their platform and the products they offer (options, forwards, contract options, futures, stocks, CFD's, commodities etc) are by far the best that I know, way ahead of other brokers. Thus, despite the bad feelings, I'll continue to trade with them. But obviously when you trade only FX you better choose a different broker.
suckso bank ...
Quoting Jumper1979
suckso bank ...
Good one! :-) (something like Goldman Sucks)
Some excellent comments on this thread. It'll be fascinating to see the first quarter metrics on retail trading after Black Thursday. I'm thinking that for many retail traders this event may have been the straw that breaks a lot of camels' backs. I think the collateral damage will go a lot further than this single event.

For example there must have been thousands of FXCM clients who finally, (after years of suffering cuts, bruises, growing pains etc.) built up a modest balance who have suddenly been wiped out. They'll never come back. The wider retail industry has partly died and it only has itself to blame. They've played fast and loose.
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
It's about barriers to entry. Folk can open up an FXCM type account with a few hundred dollars, or even less I think.

Quoting Pmd1963
Just do what I did. Leave your Forex Broker (FXCM) and trade currencies with a futures account (I went to TD Ameritrade). My account is never commingled and it is insured up to $500,000.00 by the FDIC (Joint account). Problem solved.
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
http://www.forexcrunch.com/some-brokers-still-going-after-negative-balances/
Once again - a proof of the mantra, I'm trying to shout out here - if you can spare X amount for FX trading - keep 10% of it in the broker and 90% of it in monthly deposit in a bank. Risk the 10% for 10-15% growth of your X amount and sleep tight.

P.S. And if some failed broker like FXCM or Saxo bank would like to go legal - would welcome them with my lawyer, so they can kiss my ... for those negative balances, will drag them so long until they loose interest.
Quoting michaelpelly
Once again - a proof of the mantra, I'm trying to shout out here - if you can spare X amount for FX trading - keep 10% of it in the broker and 90% of it in monthly deposit in a bank. Risk the 10% for 10-15% growth of your X amount and sleep tight.

P.S. And if some failed broker like FXCM or Saxo bank would like to go legal - would welcome them with my lawyer, so they can kiss my ... for those negative balances, will drag them so long until they loose interest.
Well said mate glad we think the same
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  • Posted: Feb 9, 2015 6:05am
  • Submitted by:
     Newsstand
    Category: Forex Industry News
    Comments: 38  /  Views: 11,449